|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 03 2008 : 4:16:21 PM
|
This insight I'd like to share started with Yogani writing in a thread that
"Your bhakti is nothing short of spectacular"
And I didn't get it. I'm not a very good practitioner, cheating with the practices and being very flexible (read lazy  ). I do keep the twice a day meditation, but several times I have to do it in a last-minute manner. (Louis, sit down now and breath deeply!) Yesterday I meditated with open eyes driving on the high way...  So that's not how my bhakti shows...
Then I read this part from Yogani recently:
quote:
All practices become refined along the way. Nothing is dropped. Everything is transformed until it is all samadhi -- living moving samadhi. There is no end of the journey. The journey is the destination, just as unending becoming is the destination of the universe.
Except, of course, for those who want to check out. That is an illusion. There is no checking out. Only more and more becoming what we are. One part cannot be separated from the other parts, even if we call that part absolute. What is has no name, and it is everywhere. We are That.
...and I got a reaction to the last part, like a knife stabbing my chest!!!
I have written many posts in this forum expressing my longing for death that has been with me all my life. I have written about my loathing for the humankind. I have written about my absolute non-interest of participating in this life anylonger. I started a thread called Beyond the beyond when I had been totally taken by Nisargadatta's words:
quote:
The no-being state is the Absolute, that is what you call pure awareness. Beingness is the feeling "I am". That "I am" itself is love to be. I would like to be. I would love to perpetuate myself. That is love. Consciousness itself is love. With consciousness, you would love to be.
In the perfect state, that state does not want to become something other than what it is. Nor does it want to be. Therefore, that beingness is not there, the feeling of "I-am-ness" is not present in the perfect state. Everything is complete.
When your need is fulfilled, there is no more need, no more lack. There is no more movement. Love is also dissolved at that moment.
These words made me sob and cry... and I felt "That's it!". Lately, during breathless states in meditation I have received these wonderous "knowings" on the Nothingness, causing poems to come out as tears stream down my face...
Reading Yogani's words "There is no checking out. Only more and more becoming what we are." was so revealing!!!
I WANT TO CHECK OUT!
That's my bhakti! When I am in my mind, believing my mind, the only thing I want is to check out! For good! That longing is so deep inside and has been for all my life!!! I see clearly now that's my bhakti. My ishta (chosen ideal) is total non-being, non-existence, nothing. My bhakti is driven by negativity, hatefulness and aggression - I didn't think that was possible, but it is! And now it becomes so clear what is meant by Yogani's words:
quote:
If we know how to redirect our emotional energy toward our highest ideal, whether it be "God" or "Truth" or "Love," then huge invisible forces will be turned loose that bring knowledge to us in an avalanche. Such is the power of bhakti.
I also get a memory now of Bernie saying something like "hate is an easier way than love, because hate is often more pure. It is what it is. Love is cluttered with conditioned ideas of emotions and romanticism."
Negative feelings are just as powerful as positive if directed in the right way! Phew! Now, THAT could really be a plausible explanation for my "spectacular bhakti", because that longing for checking out has been there as long as I can remember (since I was 5). And I bet it was there earlier because I was very sick as a child and didn't have much fun the first 5 years.
After having said all that I must say that I totally buy it's an illusion! When being in the Now, all this negativity is gone! When being Love it's impossible not to embrace every movement the stillness makes, without discrimination, since it's all One! It's only from the mind perspective the bhakti has its meaning. When being the Now in a more stable way the journey changes for sure, and the 'eternal becoming' is IT!
But who knows... what comes after That...? Nisargadatta is still touching me in the deep... |
|
|
scottfitzgerald
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2008 : 10:12:09 PM
|
emc
Thanks for sharing. I can relate to the checking out part. I have had several bouts of depression in life that made me long for death, with one suicide attempt in my early twenties, and very serious thoughts about it in my late thirties...those were "death by cop" fantasies. I know the pain and perhaps the joy in "choice" that approaches when one gets that close to ending it.
Kind of glad the attempt didn't work out--too much Jack Daniels made me throw up the bottle of pills.
I want to check out as well. But not in the same way anymore--I want to check out of the pain, burn off the karma and the blockages--check out from the old habits and the hate. I have found it soothing to learn there is a place inside, a me inside of Scott Fitzgerald that is like you said--already checked out. Many of us are taught to hate, and many of us are taught to hate ourselves more than others, or we guilt ourself into turning our outward hatred inwards, and that created in me a reverse energy pattern. Hate going inwards is the opposite of love going outwards. Maybe.
Sure would miss your posts if you did check out. |
 |
|
|
VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Apr 03 2008 : 11:12:43 PM
|
I can also relate, emc. When my kundalini first awoke and a lot of the repressed childhood trauma bubbled to the surface there were lots of tears and the feeling of complete and utter nakedness. It was so uncomfortable, that I didn't know if I could make it from one day to the next.
So you are not alone and if it gets to the point where you feel like you cannot pull yourself out of it, please talk to someone and don't beat yourself up either. We are all human beings with the same aspirations. Vulnerability is always a prerequisite to openings and there is no telling how many people you helped with your post; so hang in there.
With love:
VIL |
|
|
|
Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2008 : 12:52:30 AM
|
Nice, it's beautiful to see all your honesty :).
I can definetly relate with the "checking out". I've seen a lot of hate, have been the target of a lot of hate. Nobody deserves it. I mean, I think it's human to go through certain emotions when certain things happen. What kept me going was always knowing that emotions pass. No matter how strong I feel something now, how hurt I feel inside, how much I just want to yell or punch a wall or whatever... it'll pass.
I've thought of suicide before myself, I never thought of actually acting on it, though I definetly know what it means when someone can feel their problems outweigh their coping methods. My coping method was something like... going into the problem, fully haha. Then you get to learn first hand they're all empty, what's there isn't really that scary. You just stare that sucker in the eye and ride it out. I think it was eckhart tolle who said something along the lines of "the only thing you'll ever have to deal with in life, is the energy within you". Sorta like "change the way you look at things, and the things you look at change". There's a certain beauty in depression, hate, anger... anything. See the truth in any of them, and they're just as enlightening as "I am". There's no "I am not", just I am. I think that's awesome :).
|
|
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2008 : 03:12:25 AM
|
Oh, I'm grateful for your kind posts, although I am in no need for support really! I wanted to share a happy and joyous insight on bhakti - this beautiful and strong bhakti! The negativity is constant and I don't suffer from it - it's a fuel that I now am very grateful for!
Divineis, you wrote: "There's no "I am not", just I am."
What I'm talking about is even worse than that, here illustrated by Nisargadatta's:
When the 'I am myself' goes, the 'I am all' comes. When the 'I am all' goes, 'I am' comes. When 'I am' goes, reality alone is...
-- Nisargadatta Maharaj
So you see... the I AM will eventually go as well!
And there is a way out of this body. I think that's why I cried like a baby when reading "Secrets of Wilder" - in the end John Wilder is gone - consciously dissolving into... - - - ! |
Edited by - emc on Apr 04 2008 03:13:14 AM |
|
|
|
Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2008 : 03:30:12 AM
|
Worse than I am? haha. oh man, I dig thinking about this stuff, but sometimes it's just too much :) haha.
I see no problem with I am. I could say Bloop bleep blop, it's still the same thing. I am is, Bloop bleep blop is. I see what you're pointing at, I've known what you're pointing at. K, I'm seriously now thinking of starting my "purple dinosaur" meditation instead of the "I am" mantra, maybe inspire a few of you to just forget all this spiritual mumbo jumbo. These "inspiring" words that we attach meaning to, or attach no meaning to hahaha. I was sooo on the path of Zen in a past life haha.
Ok, it's so done, I'm making a post right now, and I'll comment on my ventures into the purple dinosaur meditation. |
|
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2008 : 4:01:03 PM
|
Divineis, my association to your reasoning is that there is something in I AM that you don't get in a purple dinosaur: The sense of I. Who is the center of perceiving? That's the core thing here. When going over to I AM ALL, I become Everything. The sense of I is the same as when we are in our Ego-me, it just covers Everything. But the I-feeling is always there. The crucial thing here is... after having realized the I AM ALL, and then dropped the ALL, so only I AM-ness is there (the world of Everything totally disappears) one would easily think that is IT. But the revolutionary thing here is that there is a state when even the sense of I is gone. A total collaps of the subject; the perceiver, the perceived and the perceiving itself - not being One - being... gone! That's what I mean with checking out, not suicide due to disturbed emotions. Like Barry Long says - we can go all the way back to before the Big Bang! That's where Now is - always! And then there was... Nothing!
The disturbed emotions function as fuel to bhakti. Not long ago I found myself quite ishtaless (see http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3389#29079), and was confused over that concept. Now my ishta is clear. Superclear. I just didn't see it before! I don't care if it is an illusion or not. It's working! My journey is going very fast forward, always burning the tires in the curves. I see now why that is! It's the beautiful hatefulness!
I have also written before about the beautiful lecture in buddhist personality theory I attended long ago:
quote:
Buddhist divide people into hateful, greedy or delusioned types - I'll leave out the last one. The hateful is full of negative thoughts, always noticing dislikes, what s/he does not want. The greedy is full of positive thoughts, always noticing likes and what s/he wants. The suggestion for development is for the hateful to see to that s/he always is comfortable, have a beautiful, clean and nice environment to be in. The greedy on the other hand should learn to live with dirt, bugs, uncomfortable furniture etc. Further, the hateful ones were said to reach enlightenment much quicker than the greedy ones, because it is much easier to detect and see through the "lie" in hateful thoughts than in greedy thoughts. To get rid of dislikes is more welcome than to get rid of likes.
I see now it's not only due to the discovery of the "lie" in hateful thoughts that makes hateful people reach enlightenment quicker - it's the transformation of emotions into bhakti that speeds it up! The motives for getting out of the mind prison are so much greater! And as Yogani said - "huge invisible forces will be turned loose that bring knowledge to us in an avalanche" I think that is what I am experiencing! I'm downloading so much stuff at the moment during meditation, particularly when in breathless states, when body is totally gone and there's just some sort of floating wave movement meditating... Can't describe it. It's all this info on the Nothingness.
Like when I meditated with eyes open driving... It was awesome. Like really being able to read the codes in Matrix.
Do not try to quit driving the car; that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth. [What truth?] There is no car.
|
Edited by - emc on Apr 04 2008 4:33:54 PM |
|
|
|
Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2008 : 5:18:47 PM
|
emc.. of all the things I could tell you right now.. only one thing has kept coming back to me since I first read your post...
Please just...
relax!!!!!
Let it all go.. all of it.. just let it go...
BREATH...
Nice and slow...
iiiinnnnnnnn...
......
ooooouuuuuttttt....
...........
and
aaaahhhhhhhhhh
reeeeeelaaaaax.
|
|
|
|
Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2008 : 6:38:27 PM
|
yeah, I second what Shanti said. Honestly, I read half your posts, and I almost stopped there. To be honest, I don't care about I am, I don't care about I am not. there just words to me. Is... am, it's ALL THE SAME. WAKE UP MAN. Getting hooked up, making sense of your Bhakti and all that crap, you wanna know what I think? It's meaningless! Just listen for a sec, ease your logical defensive arguing mind for a sec. I can usually read people very well.
I'm guessing you were an obsessive sort of thinker before starting meditation. Just let it gooo man. There's no need to bring that habit to meditation and spirituality, especially if you're a seeker of truth. No need to hate the habit, or work against it, but when thoughts of the sort come up, it's sorta like "oh hey, haha, there's my ego getting hooked on that spiritual stuff again, trying to define it's way into it". You can just smile at it all. It's all part of the Divine dance, it's beautiful in it's own right, though if enlightenment is what you're after, just smile at the habit and let it go.
There's a reason why I said there's no "I am not". I said it specifically for you, because you're so obsessed with "I am not". Enlightenment isn't sinking into your comfortable logic of "how things work", it's facing reality. You see a tree, you see a tree. It's simple, no I am, no I am not involved, you don't need that man.
Wanna know what I do to help people out who are into meditation and spirituality? They hold on to one thing, I say the opposite as truth. It's the only way the mind works. You don't like "I am" instead you think "I am not" and logicise your way into why "I am not is right". I tell you "I am not" does not exist to get you to think of I am again, cuz you hit one side too far. The mind only knows extremes, sometimes it has to know both sides before finding the middle, before finding your balance.
You've turned your words into an idol man, if you knew ANYTHING about enlightenment, you'd know it means idolising absolutly nothing. Not no-thing, I don't mean make an idol out of no-thing, cuz that's what you're doing. I mean nothing! Just allow your awareness to flow, accept it all as it comes, enlightenment is as easy as that. I'll say that again, cuz it's really important
allow your awareness to flow, accept it all as it comes.
I wish someone had told me this a couple years back, and emphasized it's importance. I would of never of had to read even a book on enlightenment, I'd be further along my path, no spiritual psycho-babble to clutter my mind. It's so simple... allow your awareness to flow, accept it all as it comes.
|
|
|
|
Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2008 : 6:41:40 PM
|
Hi emc
quote:
(Louis, sit down now and breath deeply!) Yesterday I meditated with open eyes driving on the high way...
I took a deeeeep breath, and I'm ok now
What Shweta says reminds me of a story a young monk told us at a Thich Nhat Hanh style retreat last week.
When he started as a novitiate in Plum Village, France, he would see this big barrel of an older monk who was always dressed in lots of clothes, even at 35degC, but he always had a big beaming smile on his face, no matter what.
He got chatting to him and the older monk became a mentor for him, the message was always the same - don't take things so seriously, take it easy, relaaaax.
It came to the point where the older monk would see him and just say -
eeeeeeaaassssyyyyyy - as a sort of key word for this young guy. The young monk says it has been the most helpful thing in all his practices so far.
So I'll pass it on to you and also look in the mirror -- eeeeeaaasssyyy
|
Edited by - Sparkle on Apr 04 2008 6:46:26 PM |
|
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2008 : 02:42:36 AM
|
Frankly, I don't understand your reactions... Read my posts again and picture them written from a relaxed, happy state like when great insights just has fallen down, and there's a silent laughter between the lines. I think you will interpret what I say differently.
This is a forum for discussing bhakti, and with bhakti comes ishta. I just wanted to share. I am not having any problems at the moment.
Rather, I'm in a period of the deepest of meditation I've ever been in, after a great boost of overload energies - or actually I don't know if it's after, perhaps it's fading out, but it's like a grand opening after all those symptoms that are now diminishing. Great things are revealed to me and I'd like to share it.
So, thank you, but the advice does not feel relevant in any way. I must have put my message forward in a very unclear way. The only thing I'm saying here is basically:
Before:
- Didn't understand where my drive (bhakti) to walk the spiritual path came from.
- Didn't have any higher spiritual ideal - ishta - to direct my longing towards.
Now:
- See clearly where my drive to walk the spiritual path (bhakti)comes from - a deep wish to get rid of 'I' - to stay home at Source.
- See clearly that my higher spiritual ideal - ishta - is: The Nothingness.
I'm getting to know the nothingness - it's a beautiful thing happening. Welcome to join me in awe and gratitude. |
Edited by - emc on Apr 05 2008 03:26:10 AM |
|
|
|
Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2008 : 04:47:16 AM
|
Hi emc
Apologies for mis-interpreting.
quote:
Rather, I'm in a period of the deepest of meditation I've ever been in, after a great boost of overload energies - or actually I don't know if it's after, perhaps it's fading out, but it's like a grand opening after all those symptoms that are now diminishing. Great things are revealed to me and I'd like to share it.
Looking back on this would you say that perhaps what happened was some major block rising out of the inner silence for purification, which inevitably looked like overload but was in fact a clearing that had to happen at some stage. The fact that you were monitoring it and easing back made it manageable so that it didn't get way out of hand.
The result then was this deepening of your practice and insights.
Just wondering if this fits your experience?
quote:
Now:
- See clearly where my drive to walk the spiritual path (bhakti)comes from - a deep wish to get rid of 'I' - to stay home at Source.
- See clearly that my higher spiritual ideal - ishta - is: The Nothingness.
I'm getting to know the nothingness - it's a beautiful thing happening. Welcome to join me in awe and gratitude.
In gratitude and awe
|
|
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2008 : 04:56:05 AM
|
No need to apologize, Louis! Just wanted to get message out more clear.
quote:
Originally posted by Sparkle
Looking back on this would you say that perhaps what happened was some major block rising out of the inner silence for purification, which inevitably looked like overload but was in fact a clearing that had to happen at some stage. The fact that you were monitoring it and easing back made it manageable so that it didn't get way out of hand.
The result then was this deepening of your practice and insights.
Just wondering if this fits your experience?
Well, the purification process is a fulltime job going on. It might have been a major block getting resolved and the "overload" was necessary to get enough force to get through it... Or perhaps it was just bad planning of practices as usual that caused the overload, but the result of the overload was an increased cleansing leading to this opening..The effect would be the same - an opening. |
|
|
|
yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2008 : 10:52:03 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by emc
The disturbed emotions function as fuel to bhakti. Not long ago I found myself quite ishtaless (see http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=3389#29079), and was confused over that concept. Now my ishta is clear. Superclear. I just didn't see it before! I don't care if it is an illusion or not. It's working! My journey is going very fast forward, always burning the tires in the curves. I see now why that is! It's the beautiful hatefulness!
Hi emc:
Yes, all emotions will be harnessed for divine purpose, even our most negative ones. It is stillness in action. All of our seeking and running away are for That. As soon as we realize it, Whooosh!
That is bhakti. Bravo!
The guru is in you.
|
|
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2008 : 11:27:51 AM
|
"All of our seeking and running away are for That."
Yes, Yogani! That's exactly the new for me. That I thought bhakti would have to be a seeking towards something, and I've never felt that, so I didn't understand what I was doing on this journey! What a hoot to realize the running AWAY is just as good! Thanks for confirmation! |
|
|
|
Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2008 : 1:08:43 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by emc
"All of our seeking and running away are for That."
Yes, Yogani! That's exactly the new for me. That I thought bhakti would have to be a seeking towards something, and I've never felt that, so I didn't understand what I was doing on this journey! What a hoot to realize the running AWAY is just as good! Thanks for confirmation!
It's amazing! We were running into the dark and scary and the horror and the pain and hatred, getting caught up in things that seemed furthest from the Beloved, and lo! Behold, we have always been in the Beloved's arms! We run away not knowing we are seeking God in the furthest reaches of this phantasmic play. The jaws of the beast and the despair are our ishta and our bhakti in disguise. We are always driven by our bhakti. We are seeking what we already are. When we begin to know this is true there is great relief and happiness. This is new to me too.
For some reason "The Talking Heads" comes to mind:
"Psycho killer, "Qu'est-ce que c'est?",
Bum bu bu bum bum, bum bu bu bum bum,
Run run run run run run run awaaaaaay"
(Sorry, it's just stuck in my head )
|
|
|
|
Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2008 : 5:41:06 PM
|
:) thanks EMC, here I was trying to teach you something, and lo and behold, I become the student haha.
I tend to have a "it matters not" sort of attitude with spiritual talk. My "it matters not" attitude... it matters not haha.
I do look forward to finding stillness in my "purple dinosaur meditation" though hhehe.
I guess my Bhakti in a way is that of no bhakti... or something hahaha. |
|
|
|
emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2008 : 03:25:07 AM
|
We are all students on this path, Divineis!
It's interesting... we don't really know why we're walking this path... we're just inclined to do it by some deep inner calling. That calling is so beatiful, the deep humming, singing in the heart... The constant 'Welcome home' that lives inside our bodies... And we just have to chose to listen to that welcome and step inside. The door is always open. |
|
|
|
Divineis
Canada
420 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2008 : 03:36:28 AM
|
aha yeah, I dig that open door policy :).
Oh man, I love it... this empty carton of strawberry milk on my desk... it's just as much a door as anything. Your bhakti... same as the carton of milk. That's what you taught me haha. It matters not. Those who hate, they can go into their anger and find the truth there. those who love, same thing, those who eat oreo cookies...
hahahaha :)
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Bhakti - getting a new picture of it
