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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 27 2008 : 6:19:02 PM
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Hi TI,
You make some interesting points which I have also asked myself at times.If you take a look at Matrix Energetics you will see that it's all quantum physics and intent is the key.My belief is that the scriptures wrote of the experiences and recorded them in the only way that the sages and yogis knew how to.As the belief is that our communication is not advanced enough to explain Quantum Physics even to ourselves!(how often do you have meditation or daily life experiences that puzzle you and that you cannot put into words?)I believe this was the only way to record them.
If you look at Reiki and the symbols for power, distant healing or simply attuning another,then you will find they are not actually necessary and some believe they were not a part of the original system but were introduced by Dr. Usui for students who could not grasp the concept of intent.I have never used symbols for attuning others and have attuned many all at the same time using intent with no difference in results, except that Reiki 'masters' who have experienced the energy of shakti have found they could not handle the higher vibrations and were severely cleansing! OOOOps sorry!!!!!
In my experience using fast japa repetition creates a large amount of energy and who cares what the cause is as long as it brings progress? You will find that inner guidance will lead you to new techniques and abilities.Normally siddhis are not sought or taught as they are considered a distraction to the path and one gains these naturally.
L&L
Dave
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jul 27 2008 : 10:15:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by riptiz
Hi TI,
You make some interesting points which I have also asked myself at times.If you take a look at Matrix Energetics you will see that it's all quantum physics and intent is the key.My belief is that the scriptures wrote of the experiences and recorded them in the only way that the sages and yogis knew how to.As the belief is that our communication is not advanced enough to explain Quantum Physics even to ourselves!(how often do you have meditation or daily life experiences that puzzle you and that you cannot put into words?)I believe this was the only way to record them.
If you look at Reiki and the symbols for power, distant healing or simply attuning another,then you will find they are not actually necessary and some believe they were not a part of the original system but were introduced by Dr. Usui for students who could not grasp the concept of intent.I have never used symbols for attuning others and have attuned many all at the same time using intent with no difference in results, except that Reiki 'masters' who have experienced the energy of shakti have found they could not handle the higher vibrations and were severely cleansing! OOOOps sorry!!!!!
In my experience using fast japa repetition creates a large amount of energy and who cares what the cause is as long as it brings progress? You will find that inner guidance will lead you to new techniques and abilities.Normally siddhis are not sought or taught as they are considered a distraction to the path and one gains these naturally.
L&L
Dave
Hi Dave 
Very well put! Yes, intention. That is the key, the great transformer. I think chakras might be hard coded 'intention' converters. ??
That is also very interesting about Shakti being of very high vibrations and hard to control. I will reflect on this.
After watching Shri Anandi Ma dance on Youtube, and after experiencing rapid mantra repetition, they seem like methods of overloading the gross consciousness to the point where it shuts down. It does work, I cannot dispute that.
When I was a kid, we (me and my friends) used to take a puff on a cigarette, hold it in and then spin round and round with eyes closed until you fell down on the ground. That's sort of what Shri Anandi Ma's dance reminds me of (at the very end she falls into samadhi)..
Concerning the siddhis, I do agree that the potential of distraction is there. I mean, who wants to miss out on enlightenment having spent all of their earth time mind-reading, or levitating? I know that crystals will activate chakras and so will visualization/concentration/intent. Whatever the mind focuses on, energy soon follows..
Thanks again for your thoughtful and informative response.
OM SHANTI
TI
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jul 27 2008 : 11:05:48 PM
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Hi
So where am I at now?
This morning I sat by the river and practiced pranayama and connected my heart to sun. It's almost like I can see with my heart with eyes closed but I'm not making that my final goal.
This afternoon I performed my 5 malas (504 repetitions) of the RAM RAMAYA NAMAHA mantra. It took me 1 hour. It is supposed to take 20 minutes or so. I found an interesting explanation of the RAM mantra. Here it is: from this link:
www.angelfire.com/az3/legion.../attitude.htm
quote:
Om Ram Ramaya Namaha (or Swaha)
OM RAHM RAHM-EYE-YAH NAHM-AH-HA (SWAH-HA)
Thomas Ashley-Farrand in "Healing Mantras," writes that "Ram... is the seed sound for the manipura, or solar plexus chakra. Tremendous healing energy lies dormant at that chakra. Mantra can help you get at that energy. This mantra begins to awaken and activate the entire chakra. It specifically prepares the chakra to be able to handle the inflow of kundalini energy that gives the chakra its power." Ashley-Farrand breaks down Rama into it’s two syllables and describes their influence. "Ra is associated with the solar current that runs down the right side of our bodies. Ma is associated with the lunar current that runs down the left side of our bodies.... By repeating Rama... Rama... Rama over and over again, you begin to balance the two currents and their activity so that they can work with the higher stages of energy that will eventually come up the spine.... Om Ram Ramaya Namaha begins to clear the two currents with a slight emphasis on the right or solar side, which is needed in this age of darkness... After the age of twenty-nine, the ending of the mantra should be changed to Swaha."
During that meditation, a white beard started revealing itself. As the vision became more clear, Dhyanyogi's face appeared. He was watching and smiling at me. 
For the pre-supper meditation, I decided to go back to my stock AYP practice session. I performed bhastrika for 3 minutes, deep spinal breathing for 7 minutes and then I did the AYAM mantra. What a contrast. I produced "AYAM" once, waited a bit, said it again, waited etc. What an easy thing to do. I also noticed that my forehead became very numb and I attained a very deep level of meditation again. I found myself back into a dark black cave with nothing in it, except faint echoes of "AYAM". I ignored all the visions but did notice that the light, which sort of looked like a glob of activity was quite pronounced... ignore ignore..
At the end of that meditation, I performed my favorite, Samyama from the cave. I noticed that everything during this whole meditation seemed to be a lot clearer, cleaner and joyful to perform.
During the last phase, which was the rest period, I was overtaken by my kriya. My neck moves to one side and then I slump forward onto my knees. That was sort of a surprise to me. I remained down for 4 or 5 minutes and then sat up again. I felt so good, deep, silent that I stayed in that state for quite a while. I re-visited the cave, the pond, the ocean with the sun, Shakti (she is still dancing for me), the angel, the buddhas, Jesus and some other places. I had a great time.
Right before I was finished and was "coming back", I looked straight ahead with eyes closed and I saw a small round blue ball, the same color as Yogani's deep meditation book's cover. I 'willed' it around me and I found myself inside. I 'willed' it back and I was out of it, once again looking at it. I wonder if this is the blue pearl. It is not shiny, it is dull. But it seems to obey me.. I'll explore that one at a later date. (you are supposed to be able to travel using the blue pearl, according to Muktananda)
I guess doing 9 months of deep silence meditation twice a day has it's benefits. After this last meditation, I felt like I had taken a sedative. I really didn't care about much, I was just grooving, savouring the detachment, being silent, remembering the cave and the darkness. Even though I had to wait for 1/2 hour at the restaurant, it didn't bother me in the slightest.
So there you have it, a full spectrum. I took an Evelyn Woods Reading dynamics course back when I went to university. I learned how to shift my perception to take in paragraphs and pages at a time. That is like the speed-mantra'ing. I can also read a word, wait a while, read another word... This is like the AYAM meditation.
The AYAM meditation produces (in me) great quantities of open space and silence, a numbing effect and wonderful silent periods during which nothing bothers me. The Dhyanyogi style of speed meditation is like a super concentrative effort that literally craters the linguistic mind, leaving you in a lucid state of awareness that is similar to day dreaming (or a form of light samadhi). Or, if you really try hard and push the speed mantra into the light, well let's just say that the scenery can be Heavenly 
Oh yeah:
Vegetarianism: sort of, I've eaten some regular meals now.
Celibacy: Every teaching has it's own "100 day celibacy challenge" and they all say it's very beneficial if you can do it: Kunlun, Dhyanyogi, Taoism, it's everywhere ad nauseum.. That's what I'm thinking about now.. I mean, I have three weeks practice. So, Celibacy: yes.
Total time practicing today: 3.5 hours.
Life is but a dream without commercials. Somebody hand me that remote!
TI
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2008 : 10:50:10 PM
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Hi Everyone
This is where I'm at now.
Three days ago I ate three clouds during a break. I stood outside, found a cloud and sliced and diced it with my eyes. I punched holes in it, looked at every part of it and sucked it in through my eyes. And, it disappeared! I did the same with two other clouds. They disappeared too! After doing that, I felt a kind of an electical butterfly feeling in my stomach and lower abdomen which lasted about 20 minutes.. Hmmm. Interesting stuff..
I had always wanted to dissolve clouds when I was a kid because I had read about it in a book called "Youth and Reincarnation" by Jesse Stearn (I believe). Now that I have the correct technique I'm almost convinced that it works consistently. Oh, here is the technique which I found last week:
http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php...19&hl=clouds
Last night, an angel appeared in my living room. I noticed it while I was playing my classical guitar. The angel had very longs wings, all the way to the ground. There were really no discernable features other than it looked kind of flat and consisted of whitish light. The angel did nothing except sit there. I presumed that it was listening to me play. It stayed for about 1/2 an hour and then it was gone after I had finished my solo 'concert' in the dark.
When I finished the 10 days of 108 repetitions of the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra I pursued the RAM RAMAYA NAMAHA mantra for three days. Then I kind of decided to go back to the 'deep silence' meditation (which was nice, calm, peaceful and serene). But, you know me. I'm always thinking that effort is the key. I don't have a lot of patience to just sit and wait for my mind to turn off. I mean, I used to play five people at once in chess challenges and win every game. I also used to play chess blindfolded. Often times the only way I could get people to play me was to give them queen odds (take my queen off of the board). (no ego here..  )
So now, after digesting the Shaktipat in Absentia experience, evaluating the visions and phenomenon, comparing the types of meditation, I've decided to do my regular practice with alterations.
Today, I did two sessions, once in the morning and once in the afternoon. I did 50 rapid deep abdominal breaths, followed by 7 minutes of spinal breathing followed by 20 minutes of meditation. I'm starting to get heat following my attention downwards to the root during spinal breathing (not just on the upward inhalation).
However, I've gone back to the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra during meditation. Also, instead of finding an empty room, I'm now just meditating while sitting at my desk. That mantra requires so much effort and attention that I hardly notice the surrounding office noises. Language isn't my strong suit..
During the morning meditation, after about 10 minutes, I felt small flames shooting up my back from my midsection up into my head. It also felt like my hands were just about on fire. The other phenomenon that I noticed is that I was getting flashes of what seems to be different bodies superimposed upon my physical; like I am split into several bodies. One of the bodies is a kind of golden watery light and when I focus on it for a few seconds, it seems to extend forever like a huge cavern of space. I sense that it is an awareness type of body.
After lunch, I went outside for a smoke. While I was standing there, I focused my heart on the sun and started loving it. My whole body started tingling. I closed my eyes and felt my surroundings with my heart. Again, I can see the surroundings all the way around me with eyes closed. It isn't as clear as I'd like it to be but I'm thinking that the more I do it the clearer it will become.
Later that afternoon, I really noticed how my head and hands were kind of burning, especially when I was just relaxing at my desk. (This makes me happy. I like the heat.  )
During the afternoon meditation, the flames projecting upwards in the top half of the body re-ignited. The split bodies reappeared as well and I'm finding that even though I'm concentrating like crazy to repeat the BS mantra as rapidly as possible, I'm also becoming more aware of the space and other things that are happening at the same time.
I found the golden light body again and focused on it for a few seconds. I also fell into meditation once for 9 seconds; it took me that long before I could find my language center, remember where I was and continue with the mantra. The light at the third eye was also coming closer but I decided not to visit heaven because I didn't want to end up sobbing loudly in my cubicle.. 
My next goal is get the BS mantra going and completely relax my body and suck in from the brow to try to take it past the dream plane/phase of relaxation. There is less tension in my body if I'm not continually counting beads on a mala, so that helps..
Celibacy: yes This is day 21 of the 100 day challenge.
Vegetarianism: sporadic
TI |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2008 : 11:54:05 PM
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quote:
I'm concentrating like crazy to repeat the BS mantra as rapidly as possible, I'm also becoming more aware of the space and other things that are happening at the same time.
If it's such a "BS" mantra, why do you use it?!? |
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2008 : 12:05:32 AM
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| The Bhuta Shuddhi mantra taught by Shri Anandi Ma, which is the same Bhuta Shuddhi mantra that was chanted by Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji, is extremely powerful. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2008 : 09:51:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
The Bhuta Shuddhi mantra taught by Shri Anandi Ma, which is the same Bhuta Shuddhi mantra that was chanted by Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji, is extremely powerful.
I am sure it is, I was just joking around with the initials "BS". Hopefully that was understood and obviously no intent to insult.
all the best, |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2008 : 2:06:36 PM
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Hi,
I can attest to the effect of the Butta Shuddi mantra as i have been using it for 5 yrs.2 repetitions is enought o cause throbbing in the 3rd eye and I start drifting into samadhi.Using it while listening to the Divine Sound results in almost instant samadhi for at least 1 hr.
L&L
Dave |
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Suryakant
USA
259 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2008 : 2:21:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
quote:
Originally posted by Suryakant
The Bhuta Shuddhi mantra taught by Shri Anandi Ma, which is the same Bhuta Shuddhi mantra that was chanted by Shri Dhyanyogi Madhusudandasji, is extremely powerful.
I am sure it is, I was just joking around with the initials "BS". Hopefully that was understood and obviously no intent to insult.
all the best,
All is well, Anthem11, all is well.
My post was simply an affirmation of Tibetan Ice's experience with the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra. I received shaktipat in-person from Shri Anandi Ma in 1990, and I went through the post-shaktipat Bhuta Shuddhi mantra practice.
Namaste,
Suryakant
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2008 : 11:52:13 PM
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Hi,
Here is a rough translation of the Bhutta Shuddhi mantra:
OM
From the muladhara to the ajna via the sushumna
I join to God in the highest place
I bow before God
OM YUM
With the air body: dry dry
I bow before God
OM RAM
With the causal body: burn burn
I bow before God
OM
By Shiva through the sushumna down to the muladhara
Glow, glow, blaze, blaze, blaze forth, blaze forth
I am God, God is me
I bow before God
Of course, the mantra is not in English. I received a glossy with the BS mantra on it, along with the proper pronunciation key as part of the package I received for the Shaktipat in Absentia. It took me 3 days to learn and memorize it, and that was with the help of listening to it on the CD of Shri Anandi Ma and Dhyanyogi singing it.
************
Well, today I'm enraged for some reason. What a horrible day it has been. Not a big deal... I'll get through it. 
TI
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Christi
United Kingdom
4429 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2008 : 6:00:48 PM
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| Symptoms of over-doing? |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2008 : 10:48:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Symptoms of over-doing?
Hi Christi
Perhaps, perhaps not. I had a very bad headache in the morning, right in the center of my head going upwards. I ended up taking an aspirin. As I recall, usually the day after meeting a higher realm being, if they zap me with energy, I get symptoms. Perhaps that angel zapped me unbeknownst to me?
Or, it could be clearing. Shri Anandi Ma's post shaktipat instructions say that you may have days where certain emotions are brought up to the surface. It is part of Shakti's deep cleaning. I've also read that concept in other belief systems and here in AYP too. Shakti, better than Mr. Clean!
I feel fine today although I seem to want to go into attack mode when someone confronts me or drives like an idiot.. 
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2008 : 11:25:10 PM
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Hi
Well, this celibacy thing isn't so easy, is it?
My morning practice lasted 1 hr 20 minutes. I had lots of ecstatic conductivity arising, so much so that it was kind of distracting. I ended up taking five minutes off and then starting over. Towards the end of the meditation, the light at the third eye was so nice, round and bright that I just ended up watching it for a while. It kind of looks like a moon but with more light on it. Also, the heat was very nice too. I had short bouts of falling into samadhi, lasting a few seconds at a time.
During my afternoon meditation, which lasted 2 hours, the first part of the meditation progressed as usual, the light came down closer and I was blazing through the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra, feeling quite on top of it, pushing it higher and into the light. After an hour, I decided to sit in full lotus because full lotus is becoming very comfortable for me now (as opposed to half lotus, which is what I had been using). Big mistake. I started to get aroused. I thought to myself that I could handle it (no pun intended). I kept up the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra and the pleasure at the root got alot stronger; so strong, that I thought I might lose control. I should have quit at that point. Isn't hindsight wonderful?
I switched to AYP spinal breathing in an effort to see if I could draw the energy up the spine on the in-breath.
I was sucking the pleasureable energy upwards through the sushumna to the brow, breathing slowly and deeply, getting caught up in the sensations especially in my brow, my whole body started shaking and vibrating and before I knew it, well.. you guessed it.  (I didn't even touch it!!!) I did succeed in drawing some of the "explosion" upwards and I recall that my tail bone and lower spine area tingled with a pleasureable feeling; I could see a sort of grayish cloud of energy being directed accross and then up the sushumna in front of the spine.
So it is back to square one. 100 days of celibacy here we come again (pun intended)..
TI |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Aug 04 2008 : 12:02:18 AM
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Hi,
It has been an interesting day.
I sat by the river again and practiced pranayama.
Later, I did a practice of 50 deep breaths, spinal breathing and did the Bhuta Shudhi mantra for 40 minutes.
For my afternoon meditation, I decided to do the AYP stock meditation routine. I performed 2 minutes of bhastrika, 7 minutes of spinal breathing with root lock and then 30 minutes of "i am" meditation. (Not the AYAM, just this little insignificant 'i am' with no religious undertones). The other day when I did the 'i am' meditation, a little black patch or cave started opening up again. It was nice and quiet in there. Today, that cave was still there so I focused on it and repeated the 'i am' mantra every 5 or six seconds. Just blip, wait, blip, wait... I also made an effort to really relax my legs and abdomen. A lot of heat was rising. The forehead was numb. The light was higher up but I ignored it. Nothing else that was eventfull happened. I rested for 10 minutes and then got up and sat outside.
I must admit, when I sat outside, I was overcome with the deepest silence and peace that I hadn't felt for a long time. It was sheer joy. Like the world's volume control had been turned off. I just sat there, marvelling at the result, enjoying, relaxed, quite, peaceful..
TI
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Edited by - Tibetan_Ice on Aug 04 2008 03:53:29 AM |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2008 : 5:33:43 PM
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Hi
I've been reading "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" at this link:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=CrT...=0#PPA143,M1
I'm digesting the part where it says that there are two types of visions. One type consists of scenes with multiple objects in it. The other type usually looks like a light. I realize in AYP that the general idea is to ignore all visions. After reading page 143 in the MBB book, I'm questioning that now. I'm feeling like I've had the opportunity to enter jhana many times but I've ignored those opportunities because 1) I did not know what to do with them and 2) the general idea here is to ignore the visions and pass them off as scenery.
If you read my earlier posts, you will read about numerous times when I've seen suns, moons, disks, bright shining lights, planets etc. These phenomenon, according to that MBB book are called nimittas. Nimittas are "beautiful lights that appear in the mind."
Here is that part that bothers me:
quote:
The best nimitta, the one most suitable for jhana, begins by resembling the full moon at midnight in a sky free of clouds. It rises unhurried when the beautiful breath softly disappears. It takes three of four seconds to establish its presence and settle down, remaining still and very beautiful before the mind's eye. As it remains without effort it grows brighter, more luminous. Soon it appears brighter than the sun at midday, radiating bliss. It becomes by far the most beautiful thing that one has ever seen. Its beauty and power will often feel unbearable. One wonders if one can take so much bliss of such extreme power. But one can. There's no limit to the bliss one can feel. Then the nimitta explodes, drowning one in even more bliss or one dives into the center of the radiating ecstasy. If one remains there, it is jhana.
Jhana is defined as :
"Jhana is a meditative state of profound stillness and concentration in which the mind becomes fully immersed and absorbed in the chosen object of attention. It is the cornerstone in the development of Right Concentration"
What bothers me is that had I known that you are supposed to continue being aware of the nimittas until they explode or you merge with them, I believe I would have started up the ladder of the four Jhanas (levels of Samadhi). I have just watched the moon, sun, planets after meditations just for the fun and pleasure of it, not realizing that I was staring at the doorway to enlightenment.
An interesting point is that I first started seeing nimittas during 'i am' meditation but have also seen them with controlled breathing "OM SHIVAYA NAMAHA" meditations, by just sitting in full lotus, or by performing the Bhuta Shuddhi mantra. It doesn't seem to matter what type of meditation you do, the nimittas will eventually appear.
I think that this is a pretty good case for not ignoring all scenery, as suggested in the AYP lessons.
I'm sure this point of view has been discussed here before and will probably precipitate some discussion.. Meanwhile, I'm still digesting..
TI
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2008 : 6:52:29 PM
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Hi TI:
I don't think it says anywhere in the AYP writings that we are supposed to "ignore" the scenery of our experiences. What it says is to "favor our practice over the scenery." When we are not practicing, we can enjoy the scenery all we like, or allow it in a self-inquiring way, if we have abiding inner silence (the witness) present.
We are not running away from anything. We are going toward something -- the procedure of our practice when we are sitting, or the routine of our life during everyday activities.
So, it is about favoring our practice, whatever it is. The real issue here is, What is your practice?
If we do not have a well-established practice, what can we favor? The endless confusion of mind stuff, that's what.
The truth is that changing the practice every week, day, or hour is no practice at all, and no one can get very far with that approach. It is just an endless kaleidoscope of mind stuff. If we want to find water, we have to learn to dig in one place for quite a while (for as long as it takes). Until we get that key point, it will just be more of the same. There is no getting around it.
So, it is suggested to pick a practice (any practice!) and stick with it exclusively for at least 6 months. Then you can see what is happening with that, and will have a much better chance for steady progress. Your spiritual progress depends on developing that kind of consistency more than anything else you have brought up here.
It is your choice, of course. All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 01:26:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Hi TI:
I don't think it says anywhere in the AYP writings that we are supposed to "ignore" the scenery of our experiences. What it says is to "favor our practice over the scenery." When we are not practicing, we can enjoy the scenery all we like, or allow it in a self-inquiring way, if we have abiding inner silence (the witness) present.
Hi Yogani
I agree with you that a consistent daily practice is of great benefit. My point is that you regard the nimittas-lights as scenery and not part of the practice: nowhere in your writings do you instruct someone who sees nimittas to focus the awareness on them until until they either blow up or you merge with them, producing one of the levels of samadhi. (I'm not criticizing your assemblage of teachings, I'm just pointing this out. I guess I'm thinking that had I known about what to do with nimittas, I could have hit the levels of samadhi a long time ago when the lights started appearing and remaining constant).
Incidentally, the exploding nimitta is what happened to Muktananda in "Play of Conciousness".
Do you think that the teachings about nimittas and jhanas in "Mindfulness, Bliss and Beyond" are an accurate representation of Buddist teachings? Is this not a valid technique? The practices concerning nimittas and Jhanas are supposed to come from Buddha himself. Buddha said that it is the middle path to enlightenment:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=CrT...=0#PPA127,M1
quote:
So, it is about favoring our practice, whatever it is. The real issue here is, What is your practice?
If we do not have a well-established practice, what can we favor? The endless confusion of mind stuff, that's what.
The truth is that changing the practice every week, day, or hour is no practice at all, and no one can get very far with that approach. It is just an endless kaleidoscope of mind stuff. If we want to find water, we have to learn to dig in one place for quite a while (for as long as it takes). Until we get that key point, it will just be more of the same. There is no getting around it.
I agree that changing your practice is not 'regular' practice, but it is a practice nontheless. (Even I have a base, standard regular practice that I do every day).
The "endless kaleidoscope of mind stuff" is your opinion and you are entitled to it. What if you practice 'letting go' or any other practice that stops the mind? There are many different methods of stopping the mind.
The "and no one can get very far with that approach" I have to disagree with. Mixes of practices can accelerate your progress. Some complement each other. Also, you can make a practice out of changing your practice which gives you different perspectives, teaches you versatility and expands your consciousness. Probably helps a lot with detachment too. Eventually, you have to detach from everything anyway, practices included. No practice at all is a form of practice if it is mindful, one which I'm sure would result in enlightenment.
And if there is no water there, you've wasted your time.
Or if you are digging with a spoon, why not find a shovel instead?
I've noticed that often times the very first time I try a new practice, it works.
Quite frankly, I read a few posts about someone who meditated for 3 years and obtained no progress or experiences. This scares me. I'm a believer of learning as much about everything as possible instead of relying on any one set of teachings. I try to find what works. I mean, I did the Self Realization Fellowship exercises for two years and the most I got out of it was that I only needed four hours of sleep and physically felt great.
I've done the AYP standard practice of spinal breathing and 'i am' meditation for 8 months, twice a day. I started last November. I started to vary my daily routine in July when I got Shaktipat in Absentia. At that point I also started varying the mantra too. However, I've always always meditated a minimum of twice a day since November.
Admittedly, I also do other things too in addition to my bi-daily sessions, like my nightly meditation which is my choice, Reiki, crystal routines, chakra meditations, astral travel, praying to Jesus, Kunlun, Qi Gong, cloud eating; I'm into anything and everything.
Unfortunately, I'm not a good guinea pig to see if the AYP lessons work on their own. I'm not sure you will find anyone who is strictly AYP. I'm not sure you could even discount previous lives' karma from the mix either. Please don't get me wrong, I think there is great value, wisdom and powerful practices in AYP.
quote:
So, it is suggested to pick a practice (any practice!) and stick with it exclusively for at least 6 months. Then you can see what is happening with that, and will have a much better chance for steady progress. Your spiritual progress depends on developing that kind of consistency more than anything else you have brought up here.
I'd prefer not to leave anything to chance. Further, how do you know what my spiritual progress depends on? What if I focus on the nimittas and jhanas and become enlightened?
What would I ask myself then? I have brought down the lights many times with the practices that I've learned and now I know what to do with them. But practices are not an end in themselves. That is the whole point, isn't it? Don't get me wrong, when someone first starts on the path, yes, they need discipline, regular practices and a consistent pattern to follow. That is the usual method but there are exceptions.
Why is it that when a yogi reaches enlightenment or an intense kundalini experience or cosmic consciousness or something close, the yogi then develops their own set of practices that they teach to their disciples (or write about in books)? Why do they "Do as I say", and not "Do what I did to get here"?
A while back in another post I had asked you some questions about yourself and you said that AYP was not about you, but about me (the people on the forum). That kind of stuck with me. Usually, when learning about teachings, I always try to learn as much as possible about the person/guru and get as much background as possible. Because, the person behind the writing is a usually a good indicator of the effectiveness and quality of their teachings.
On one hand, you've assembled some powerful yoga practices from varying sources (much like I practice a variety of techniques). But, you haven't told us anything about yourself. For example, I don't even know if you practice AYP or not. Are you enlightened? Do you have any siddhis? Do you know my past lives? Can you read me or tune into me like many enlightened gurus can? Do you really know what is best for my spiritual evolution? Are you enlightened or are you an author who's main purpose is to sell books? Are you leading everyone here to enlightenment or somewhere else? I'm sure everyone who comes here or reads your books/lessons has the same questions.
Now I know you're not going to answer any of that, because you are a very consistent person. However, if any time soon you decide to write a true biography of your life (and charge lots of money for it), I will be the first person to buy multiple copies.
TI
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 10:46:09 AM
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Hi TI,
quote:
Eventually, you have to detach from everything anyway, practices included. No practice at all is a form of practice if it is mindful, one which I'm sure would result in enlightenment.
I find this to be a common misconception that suggests once there is detachment, that action stops or in this case practice stops. Detachment simply means letting go of the need for the fruits of effort, not stopping the efforts themselves. An example would be, I help people for the love of helping, not for their gratitude afterwards.
For the record, I have practiced AYP exclusively and have for 3 and a half years and have seen constant steady progress, as have many people here. |
Edited by - Anthem on Aug 08 2008 10:47:18 AM |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 12:18:02 PM
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Hi TI:
I am not suggesting you become a practitioner of the AYP system. Only that you stick with one system (any system) for a while. That, and clearing up the "favoring the practice over the scenery" issue, were the only points I hoped to get across.
On the latter, if we are practicing one system and then become attracted to another system during our session (no matter what it is), that is just part of the scenery of that session, and we easily favor what our practice is. If we want to change systems, then we can make that decision in a logical fashion later on outside practices, based on a much broader assessment than a vision we have had somewhere in the foggy depths of our purification process (or the latest book we happened to read). Changing our practice is a big decision that ought not be taken lightly. If we find ourselves making these kinds of assessments and changes daily or weekly, both inside and outside our practice sessions, then we'd better step back and ask ourselves what it is we are doing. What will be the blueprint and support system for our path and our progress? Even the "no-practice" paths have blueprints and support systems.
I can't really advise you on Buddhist practices or other systems, but can say that using visions for objects of meditation is problematic, because sometimes they will be there and sometimes they won't. The payoff in meditation is in using the same object every day over a long period of time. Then we go deep. This is the advantage that a mantra brings. It will always be there at whatever level of consciousness we happen to be, and can serve us over the long term as we cultivate and stabilize inner silence in our life. This kind of stable practice also provides a foundation for additional practices that take advantage of rising inner silence. It is a systematic approach with a long term view.
Regarding your comment about "exploding" a vision, to what end? Inner silence? Well, we don't need pyrotechics for that. But if that is a system that interests you, and it has an established teaching with a track record, and you want to go that way, then do that. And stick with it.
And, yes, this is not about me. It is about you, your choices and your journey. AYP is a toolbox, but not the only toolbox. It is best to be using primarily one toolbox at a time, and use it deeply, becoming its most subtle nuance. It takes time. Jumping from toolbox to toolbox, or trying to use multiple toolboxes at the same time, will not work. There will be no depth or nuance, except the nuance of the mind, which is illusion.
I'm very happy to hear you have gained some benefit from the AYP writings, though I cannot trust that you have given the practices their due, or any non-AYP practice you have been discussing here either. It is not an easy position for a teacher to be in, and that is why I rarely come into this topic. I think a teacher from any other system you have dabbled in would feel the same way. A teacher is obliged to be as clear and straightforward as possible, not too much of a moving target. A student has a similar obligation, to him/herself. Without some consistency on both sides, it will not work. That leaves the student to reinvent the wheel alone. It might seem like fun for a while, but in time it will prove to be the most difficult and unreliable path -- a multi-layered labyrinth that could take lifetimes to find a way out of.
But that is life, isn't it? We are all attempting to cross over -- some in big boats, some in small boats, and some with no boat and swimming in circles. 
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 6:53:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
Hi TI:
I am not suggesting you become a practitioner of the AYP system.
Hi Yogani
I'm a little confused by that statement. I have been a 'practitioner of the AYP system' since November/2007. Are you saying that additional practices on top of the core twice daily meditation disqualify me from being labeled an AYP practitioner?
My core practice has been to perform two standard AYP sessions every day. What happens is I get into deep silence and then persitent visions appear, like a sun, a moon, a yellow disk, a clump of lights and they remain in my head, some for days. I've started over twice, gone back to the basics of deep silence meditation and then add in Shambhavi, tongue on epiglotis etc and I end up in the same place: staring at a round moon or sun that you just can't ignore.
These 'visions' are not the same quality as the little pictures or scenes or dreams that I also see (which I ignore). These planets and balls of lights are hard to distinguish from reality, most of them are are like looking at High Definition TV.
Surely you must get these 'nimittas' too. Do you ignore them in favour of your practice?
quote:
Regarding your comment about "exploding" a vision, to what end? Inner silence? Well, we don't need pyrotechics for that. But if that is a system that interests you, and it has an established teaching with a track record, and you want to go that way, then do that. And stick with it.
According to the MBB book, the result of exploding a nimitta or merging with it is Jhana (one of the four levels of Samadhi). With Muktananda, his nimitta exploded and showered down on him. It was part of his kundalini awakening experience. As the kundlini rises and pierces chakras, there are explosions heard and felt. (but not always, for whatever reasons). There are references to this phenomenon in many books/writings. Many gurus have experienced this during kundalini rising.
For example, Krishnamurti "The Natural State":
quote:
The whole thing is finished for me and that's all. The linking gets broken and once it is broken it is finished. Then it is not once that thought explodes—every time a thought arises it explodes. The division cannot stay there, it's a physical impossibility. You don't have to do a thing about it. That is why I say that when this explosion takes place (I use the word explosion because it's like a nuclear explosion) it leaves behind chain-reactions. Every cell in your body has to undergo this change.
It's an irreversible change. There's no question of your going back. It is like a nuclear explosion. It shatters the whole body. It is not an easy thing. It is the end of the man, such a shattering thing that it blasts every cell, every nerve in your body. I went through terrible physical torture at that moment; not that you experience the explosion—you can't experience the explosion—but its after-effects. The fallout is the thing that changes the whole chemistry of your body. The senses are operating now without any coordinator or center, that's all I can say. Unless that alchemy or change in the whole chemistry takes place, there is no way of freeing this organism from thought, from the continuity of thought.
So here is my plan, because, you are correct, you don't see nimittas when you first sit down to meditate. I will use the mantra to get down to the level where the nimitta appears and then I will switch to focusing soley on the nimitta and see if I can explode it. I will keep you posted.
TI
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2008 : 7:02:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
I find this to be a common misconception that suggests once there is detachment, that action stops or in this case practice stops. Detachment simply means letting go of the need for the fruits of effort, not stopping the efforts themselves. An example would be, I help people for the love of helping, not for their gratitude afterwards.
Hi Anthem
Thank you for your comments.
What I have read is that in order to realize the GOD within you, you have to drop everything; you must quit striving, you must not use your will, you have to totally surrender everthing and just let GOD be. In effect, you have to die (no mind, no will, no heart beat). That is what I'm refering to. I suppose you could call that a practice, but if you are dead, then there is no practitioner, therefore there is no practice.
quote:
For the record, I have practiced AYP exclusively and have for 3 and a half years and have seen constant steady progress, as have many people here.
If you don't mind me asking, are you enlightened? Have you experienced the higher levels of samadhi? What makes you believe that you are progressing? What indicators do you have? Have you ever seen a nimitta? Have you ever merged with one or exploded it?
TI |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2008 : 12:55:04 AM
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Hi TI:
No, you have not been practicing AYP. You have been using the AYP toolbox as a mobile platform to try dozens of other things, constantly modifying, blending, adding, subtracting, etc., and it continues with fundamental alterations in practice mentioned in your last note. It is a constant stream of short-lived experiments. That is fine if it works for you, but it should not be presented as "practicing AYP," because it isn't, and it will be confusing to anyone in the learning stage. Don't forget, there are many new practitioners visiting these forums.
It is one of the reasons why I say the forums are not the place to learn the AYP practices. The forums are a great place for open discussions on practices and experiences, which are very welcome, but it is best to go back to the lessons for the practices themselves.
If it is any consolation, I am honored that you have chosen to use AYP as a loose baseline for your wide-ranging experiments. That is something. But neither I nor anyone can predict the long term results. There is no blueprint and no support system that can affirm what you are doing.
One thing I can tell you is that if you are not using the rise of inner silence in daily living as a primary metric, and doing what is necessary to cultivate it, then you will miss the boat. All the rest of the stuff, as flashy as it may be, is small potatoes. So please do keep that in mind.
The guru is in you.
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2008 : 11:16:46 AM
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Hi Yogani,TI,
I DON'T follow the AYP system and never have but it is a useful source of information and learning no matter what system you use.What does occur to me is AYP has been tested and found to be safe for Yogani. He cannot speak for others or make any claims that it covers all.(and I'm sure he doesn't)When teaching others one has a responsibility to be aware of their safety so one should give information that your experiences have deemed safe with a warning that it may not suit all.Unfortunately TI when you use so many varied tools without finding out which does what, you run the risk of giving information that for another may be damaging.If one has an allergy to for instance food, a doctor will add or remove one substance at a time to see which is causing the problem.If one adds or removes a mix in a short space of time then how can the doctor find out which sustance causes the problem.
You have taken shaktipat and are using the butta shuddi mantra with the guru mantra which is more than most will get in a lifetime.I can tell you that for me they are enough to put me into a deep state of samadhi in seconds almost every time I sit down.After over 30 yrs martial arts experience including Karate, Aikido, Tai Chi,Reiki, EFT,TM and others I have found the shakti is much more than any of these and I am extremely well grounded.
This is not meant as a criticism and I applaud your enthusiasm and thankfully you are experiencing(at the moment)few problems but there are many who would suffer extremely with what you are doing.
L&L
Dave |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2008 : 1:59:42 PM
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Hi Dave:
Thanks for chiming in. I thought you might, since your system of practice has been mixed and matched here, along with many others.
TI cannot be faulted for his enthusiasm, or for wanting it all right now via a Muktananda or Krishnamurti-style "spontaneaous awakening." But can this be accomplished by focusing on the extreme symptoms of such an event, or on fragments of practice that may have led to it? Not likely. In fact, many would prefer to avoid the extreme symptoms, and this is possible. See here for more on dramatic spontaneous awakenings.
That is the ongoing issue with the spontaneously enlightened. They (or their symptoms) are often mimicked at the expense of sound practices that will bring about the desired result. If an awakening occurs without significant practices in this lifetime, the teaching by the spontaneously enlightened person will often be limited on effective means, and over-exaggerated on recreating the appearance of the end result.
We are seeing light shades of this more and more often in AYP, with some finding themselves experiencing non-duality in what seems a spontaneous manner. I aways remind those having these experiences to be sure to let people know what practices came before that led them to the experience of non-duality. Good things are happening for sure, and we must not forget how we got here, so many others can follow.
It is not wrong to want it all right now, but an effective systematic approach is going to be necessary for the vast majority of aspirants. With that, anyone can do it.
Even so, a spontaneous awakening may happen for TI, with all the attendant fireworks. He wants that, and we can wish it for him.
But it will not change the underlying fact that the end result is not the path. Hence the great value of reliable systems of practice that cultivate the condition of abiding inner silence (samadhi). With That, our awakening is assured.
The guru is in you.
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Aug 09 2008 : 3:54:32 PM
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Hi Yogani,
Yes, it's great that so many people want to reach heights in spirituality.As the times are indeed changing and the vibrations are increasing many are finding that access to the universal energy is easier which I believe means we need to be more responsible in our teachings AND in our own practices.I simply tell my students my experiences using the system I practice but I don't tell them of my own individual practices.They are for me alone simply because they have either come directly from my teacher or from my inner guru.Much of what I practice is from inner guidance which I believe makes them fine for me.
I do hope that TI finds balance in his sadhana and life without the problems that can arise by overloading.
L&L
Dave
the guru is IN you. |
Edited by - riptiz on Aug 09 2008 5:01:00 PM |
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