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emc
2072 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 03:28:16 AM
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| I totally agree with David on this one. I looked at the level of her toe on the leg that's moving only to find exactly what David says. We have an imprinted habit of "reading" foreshortenings in that way and thus has it easier to see the clockwise movement. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 07:16:30 AM
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I'm pretty sure the shadow of her swinging leg is incorrect when rotating anti-clockwise - anyone else see this?
Although the two dimensional picture moving from side to side makes perfect sense.
Shanti, I find it impossible to reverse directions when looking at her raised hand . To reverse I have to look at something near the centre axis, the foot being the easiest, the hips, breasts and head are also good
I wonder if that say anything?
I did a test here http://www.testcafe.com/lbrb/
My result was 52% Right brained and 48% Left.
quote:
We have an imprinted habit of "reading" foreshortenings in that way and thus has it easier to see the clockwise movement.
I'll take your word for it emc |
Edited by - Sparkle on Jun 14 2008 07:42:22 AM |
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glagbo
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 1:30:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
What I'm interested in really is whether it's true that people with 'right-brained' people (in quotes) do statistically seem to see it differently to 'left-brained' people.
Hi:
A simple test for the (intrinsic) direction-neutrality of the video would be a mirror image test.
It is simple really:
(1) Arrange to have the computer screen facing a mirror;
(2) observe the video and switch to its reflection in the mirror (back and forth).
(IMHO,) If the video is direction-neutral then the images and their reflection should (tend to) be going in the same direction, at any given "time", from the perspective of a given observer;
otherwise the video may not be completely directionally neutral.
PS: This test requires that the set-up itself be as much visually-direction-neutral as possible, in order to minimize directional queues to the brain when switching from the screen to the mirror image. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 1:32:46 PM
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EMC said:
I totally agree with David on this one.
So do I, still. However, I've come to believe that while the perspective is a little 'wrong' if we see her going counterclockwise, and more 'right' if we see her going clockwise, the effect of that is not as significant as I thought for deciding for me which way I see her turn -- it is in fact, something of a red herring, as Louis seemed to think.
The reason is this: when I look at the image in the mirror (the easiest way is to look back through a hand-held mirror at the screen but you can use a larger mirror if you like) I still tend to see her going clockwise in the mirror, even though the foreshortening makes clockwise 'wrong' in the mirror image, and counterclockwise 'right'.
So in short, the effect of perspective is in favor of 'clockwise' but doesn't really seem to be cueing me much in my choice of direction. My bieases towards the clockwise direction seem to be much stronger than the perspective effect.
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 1:36:49 PM
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Glagbo, you seem to have posted while I was writing, and were proposing the experiment I was reporting on.
The video isn't direction-neutral from the point-of-view of perspective, I feel sure of that for the reasons I said and I think that's objective. But I think it's a red herring really, at least for me. Perspective just isn't cueing me much on the direction, and the mirror-image test proves that. The mirror-image test shows that for me, I'm biased towards seeing her going clockwise. I'm biased towards the same choice, whether the cue for perspective goes my way or against it.
It's a pity that they didn't produce a perspective-neutral video image. This can be achieved by taking a 'point of view' from 'infinity' or far enough away.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 14 2008 1:42:51 PM |
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glagbo
USA
53 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 2:15:00 PM
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Here is the link to an alternative video that seems more direction-neutral to me.
I can change the direction more easilly on this one than on the videos of the other
right-brain captivating "model" (the fast moving ones were harder to spin back and forth, initially).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA1X87FsUJ0 |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 2:31:57 PM
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| We are also culturally used to read stuff from left to right - both text and pictures. I wonder if people from countries reading from right to left have it easier to see the counterclockwise movement? |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 14 2008 : 2:48:26 PM
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Glagbo said:
that seems more direction-neutral to me
Yes, I find the same thing. It is perspective-neutral (look how the height of any foot/hand stays at constant vertical position relative to any other), and I also find it more easy to switch direction.
I wonder why they put her bobbing up and down? And add a shadow?
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 15 2008 : 11:09:10 PM
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| i took Sparkle's TestCafe test, and it shows 58% right and 42% left. And glagbo's dancer turns mostly right (CW) just as the other one did. And also I can make it change direction by changing thought patterns. Does anyone else occasionally see her back split open and the devil pop out and say my name in an accusing voice so deep it shakes the whole house? hah just kidding. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2008 : 10:33:32 AM
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Does anyone else occasionally see her back split open and the devil pop out and say my name in an accusing voice so deep it shakes the whole house? hah just kidding
No, but I have noticed something else. If I switch off the left half of my brain, I can see her rotate clockwise. If I switch off the right half of my brain, I can see her rotating counterclockwise. If I switch off both halves of my brain at once, I can see her levitating!
(Only kidding!  )
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 16 2008 10:52:56 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 16 2008 : 11:53:20 PM
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| OMG she's levitating all the time! It's a no-brainer. |
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Topic |
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Neurobiology view - Jill Bolte Taylor brain stroke
