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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 14 2008 : 01:08:31 AM
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Hi,
A member from another kundalini webmail free support forum mentionned this interesting video about Jill Bolte Taylor brain stroke experience:
http://tinyurl.com/3asa6u
After a few minutes, a scene might be difficult to watch but it is worth watching the full video to get the point of this scientist versus msyticism.
Albert |
Edited by - selfonlypath on Mar 14 2008 01:19:39 AM |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2008 : 07:19:49 AM
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Great video, selfonlypath!
VIL |
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Proton
Canada
11 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2008 : 12:27:15 PM
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| What did you find so interesting or "great" about her or her talk? He talk of "recovery" suggests to me that she learned nothing whatsoever from her experience. |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2008 : 7:59:23 PM
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quote:
What did you find so interesting or "great" about her or her talk? He talk of "recovery" suggests to me that she learned nothing whatsoever from her experience.
Hey, Proton, this ties in with your other post, so I'll just combine the two and comment here. It's obvious that considering a person abnormal if they behave differently than societal expectation only manages to repress healthy development. Maybe if her brother was understood at a young age the other part of his brain would have developed naturally and he would not have been incapacitated.
And the same is true of what is considered spiritual within a culture that is dominated by the other half of the brain, which suppresses the healthy development of reasoning skills, which are considered unspiritual, which hinders this development.
Anyway, we have a societies who consider spiritual cultures as a bunch of God crazed people and cultures who consider material societies as a bunch of ungodly people. And the truth of the matter is that both expressions are from the same source.
So there is no telling what we can accomplish once both halves of our brains are merged into a healthy cohesive whole and I'm currently binding this aspect of myself back together.
But it's unfair to say that a culture/society needs to accept a dominate, right or left, -brained person as a complete and healthy adult. We have to find a healthy balance in this area.
Anyway, so I considered the video great, since she physically recovered and was able to mentally convey that her spiritual experience, was beautiful, within a society who considers these things as abnormal.
So it's not that all of these issues are solved in a day, but maybe once we learn more about ourselves and put the message out there, such as AYP, and the physician in the video, we'll all view things in a more balanced perspective. And the same is true of scientists who do this to spiritually dominated cultures/societies.
Namaste:
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on May 19 2008 9:27:30 PM |
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Proton
Canada
11 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2008 : 12:10:00 PM
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| Speaking of uniting both halves of the brain ( uniting the functional capacity of our mortal control box??! ), an exceptionally effective and fast-working, result producing means can be found in the "Gateway" series of CD's put out by Monroe Products "HemiSync" division of the Monroe Institute. The series is expensive ( almost $500.00 ) but they sure work. Aside from various Yoga techniques, I've tried lots of CD programs which claimed to be able to produce different altered states of brain function, but none of them delivered. The Gateway series does though. And their material includes Yogic techniques, such as variations of Yoga Nidra, chanting to dissapate negative energies, and a lot of other self-programming while the technology causes synchronization of the brain hemispheres. A very interesting set of experience which increase in sophistication as your proceed through the different CD's of the entire program. |
Edited by - Proton on Jun 09 2008 12:27:01 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 09 2008 : 10:56:51 PM
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This little video on youtube shows which half of your brain is dominant at the moment. You can make the
dancer change direction by changing your thought patterns.
Clockwise is right brain, abstract & artistic,
CounterClockwise is left brain, logical and calculating.
most people are more left brain dominant. I'm more right brain. If I start doing math problems in my head it spins counterclockwise, but usually reverts back the other way right away. If it is going counterclockwise, and I look at art, it goes clockwise again.
sometimes you have to look away from the video, think about something, then look back.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bq88I4DOD4
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 12:01:16 AM
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I seem to be stubbornly abstract and artistic. I find it almost impossible to see her going counterclockwise, though I can for brief moments, never for a full turn. Even when I do math in my head, she stays going clockwise.
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 12:49:20 AM
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| Interesting. I could first also only see her dancing clockwise. Then she is standing on her left leg. I then scrolled up the movie to only see the feet and looked at the mirror image of the bottom foot. I could then see the mirror image going anti-clockwise, then the legs and finally the body. She is now standing on her right leg instead. But I find this harder to maintain. |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 06:05:57 AM
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Cool ! For me it started up only counterclockwise,
then it started switching directions, and now it only
seems to go clockwise.  |
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thibaud05
France
86 Posts |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 7:45:44 PM
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| if you have trouble changing directions, try not looking directly at it. Change your thinking pattern while the dancer is only in your peripheral vision. then once she changes direction, you can look at her. |
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Tibetan_Ice
Canada
758 Posts |
Posted - Jun 10 2008 : 9:10:19 PM
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Hi
This is my ego talking now. 
That is really neat!
I can make her go one way or the other, or make her leg just go back and forth in front. I just imagine her feet going one way or the other to perform the shift and the body follows. It's similar to that black and white picture that either looks like a cup or two faces looking at each other. It changes depending on which point of view you take..
Thanks. That was fun!
TI |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2008 : 03:25:00 AM
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It has been mainly clockwise for me. Only once when I went about fiddling around with something and looked back it had changed to anti-clockwise.
With this one however, by focusing on the hip area I can change direction back and forth at will.
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=StZcv...ture=related |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2008 : 5:06:19 PM
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Totally clockwise. For the life of me, I don't know how anybody could perceive the spin any other way. No matter what, I can't.
yb. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 11 2008 : 6:25:13 PM
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Yes, YB, I had another closer look at it and I believe now out that clockwise is actually the only correct way to see it.
The key comes from perspective (foreshortening). The foot of the swinging leg appears vertically closer to the foot of the standing leg when it is sweeping from our right to our left, than it is when swinging from our left to our right. This is consistent with what perspective would produce if the woman were rotating clockwise on her left leg, swinging her right in the air, with our point of view standing several feet away from the dancer. That detail is NOT consistent with her standing on her right leg and swinging counterclockwise with her left leg in the air.
I think it may be actually greater visual skill that is making her appear moving clockwise rather than counterclockwise. Perhaps that is associated with the right brain. You can only see her going counterclockwise if you drop some visual information.
If you take an image with the effect of perspective removed ( and you can do this by taking an image of a dancer from a considerable distance away such as through a telescope) and make a silhouette out of it, you can get an image that is totally neutral with respect to whether she is rotating clockwise on her left leg or counterclockwise on her right. But this particular image is not neutral -- it has perspective in it and perspective tells us which way she is rotating.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 11 2008 6:30:35 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2008 : 02:47:44 AM
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If I hadn't had an accidental glimpse of the anti-clockwise motion in the first video I might have agreed with you YB and David.
If you look at that slower video I put up and just focus on the cenre foot only.
Now .... you can see the foot turning clockwise ---- how could it possible reverse??? ----that's the thought --- however if you first accept the fact that it can reverse, it is helpful.
Then watch the shape of the foot as it disappears around, say the back of the leg.
Then force your mind to see the shape of the foot as if it was coming around the front instead of the back - it is the same shape either way - and because it is black in colour there is no definition to distinguish it otherwise - only your mind!!!!.
You may find David, that the perspective you talked of changes when the rotation changes and you may then think -- how could it possible rotate clockwise
Once you see the foot turning anti-clockwise, everything else follows.
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Edited by - Sparkle on Jun 12 2008 02:52:06 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2008 : 06:48:03 AM
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Then force your mind to see the shape of the foot as if it was coming around the front instead of the back - it is the same shape either way - and because it is black in colour there is no definition to distinguish it otherwise - only your mind!!!!.
Yes, I've got that.
But she's then on her right leg, rotating counter-clockwise, isn't she? Use her standing leg as a fixed point (it's moving up and down, as the whole picture is, but I think that's to confuse you). Then, on the leftward sweep of her leg (across the screen from your perspective, not hers!) her sweeping leg should appear higher up due to the effect of perspective, because it is further away at this point. When it is sweeping the other way, it should appear lower down because it is closer to you. It actually appears the opposite though. So this contradicts the perspective requirements.
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2008 : 1:35:55 PM
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David said:quote:
Yes, I've got that.
Does this mean you are now seeing her rotating anti-clockwise?
quote:
But she's then on her right leg, rotating counter-clockwise, isn't she? Use her standing leg as a fixed point (it's moving up and down, as the whole picture is, but I think that's to confuse you). Then, on the leftward sweep of her leg (across the screen from your perspective, not hers!) her sweeping leg should appear higher up due to the effect of perspective, because it is further away at this point. When it is sweeping the other way, it should appear lower down because it is closer to you. It actually appears the opposite though. So this contradicts the perspective requirements.
I think you splitting hairs David and hairs that don't really affect the outcome and the point of the exercise. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2008 : 6:40:51 PM
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I think you splitting hairs David.
Maybe. I'll look into it further.
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2008 : 8:32:17 PM
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It doesn't matter which way she was actually turning when the video was taken.
What matters is that she appears to rotate differently depending on which side of your brain is dominant.
So if you are trying to figure out the "real" way she is turning, you are attempting to defeat the purpose instead of seeing the novelty, or like some of us, practicing changing hemispheres. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jun 12 2008 : 11:48:47 PM
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| I've always wondered on the cover of Secrets of Wilder if the guy on the cover is jogging toward us or toward the water? |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 08:39:33 AM
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I have been reading up a bit more... and from what I get.. it is more of a visual thing (optical illusion, tricking the brain) than a left brain, right brain thing.
http://www.theness.com/neurologicab...dex.php?p=27
The spinning girl is a form of the more general spinning silhouette illusion. The image is not objectively “spinning” in one direction or the other. It is a two-dimensional image that is simply shifting back and forth. But our brains did not evolve to interpret two-dimensional representations of the world but the actual three-dimensional world. So our visual processing assumes we are looking at a 3-D image and is uses clues to interpret it as such. Or, without adequate clues it may just arbitrarily decide a best fit - spinning clockwise or counterclockwise. And once this fit is chosen, the illusion is complete - we see a 3-D spinning image.
Move down 3 pages on this website:
http://www.shamozzle.com/RightLeftBrainTest.html
The spinning dancer changes direction due to the lack of dimension of the silhouetted 2 dimensional graphic girl, with it's featureless solid black image without interior detail. This causes your brain to not really know which leg is in front of the other. If you believe that the spinning dancer animation is only spinning in one direction, or think that the animation is randomly switching directions, have a look at the 2 images below spin in opposite directions..
This one shows you how to make her spin the other way.
http://www.alchemysite.com/blog/200...ng-girl.html
I used Yves Piguet's excellent gifbuilder to break up our Right-Left brain dancing girl. Look at frames 19 or so onward and we see that the shadow of her raised foot seems to disappear into the foreground, whereas, if she were truly turning clockwise, we would see that shadow move to background and then pass behind her planted foot - exactly as it does @ frame 17.
And frame 17 is the short-circuit -- Voila: I see clockwise, but she is moving counter-clockwise.
If you look at the slow moving image that Louis posted.. and around frame 19 keep an eye on the hand that is raised.. this will make the image move in the other direction.
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Edited by - Shanti on Jun 13 2008 09:12:14 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 10:07:06 AM
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Meg asked:
I've always wondered on the cover of Secrets of Wilder if the guy on the cover is jogging toward us or toward the water?
That's Yogani mastering an illusion. Between running towards us (the masses) by becoming a guru, and running to hell away from the charge of chelas as some of his instincts tell him and towards the water, he has decided on a compromise in which he'll run along the beach. He looks sorta as if he's doing all three, but he's running along the beach ultimately.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jun 13 2008 12:26:16 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 6:51:12 PM
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I don't know if Novella is right about it being an illusion or not. I can definitely make it change directions by changing thinking patterns. i know it is not in vogue to talk of left brain right brain thinking anymore. But if you consider what happened to the lady with the stroke, there was a definite difference in the type of thinking when one side didn't function. And the scientific way of determining if an area of the brain is functioning, is to observe the blood flow. A stroke cuts off blood flow.
It's pretty unscientific to authoritatively state something is nonsense without giving references. That becomes just his opinion, but he doesn't say that.
Elsewhere in this website he says this statement is also utter nonsense:
"the functioning of the brain does not and cannot account for everything we observe and experience as our mental selves - consciousness. Therefore something else is needed - something not physical, spiritual if you will." |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 11:33:05 PM
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| That is a great illusion, amazing to see how the mind can shift perspectives. The first two times I watched it, the woman seemed to start counter-clockwise, switch to clockwise half way through and then finish off counter clockwise again at exactly the same moments. Then after watching it a few more times, the way I perceived the feet would change the directions depending how I looked at it. Fun. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jun 13 2008 : 11:55:45 PM
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I don't know if Novella is right about it being an illusion or not.
It's an illusion by definition really if it can be seen in two entirely different ways so that's a red herring. What I'm interested in really is whether it's true that people with 'right-brained' people (in quotes) do statistically seem to see it differently to 'left-brained' people.
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Topic |
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Neurobiology view - Jill Bolte Taylor brain stroke
