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Pero
3 Posts |
 Posted - May 17 2008 : 8:31:29 PM
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Hi Meg
This topic is a month old, found it by coincidence (I guess), I hope you didn't join them because NKT is a CULT! I suggest you stay far away, even from just attending lectures, because for some, that's how it starts...
The 5th Dalai Lama tried to destroy Dolgyal, but didn't succeed, others also warned against him. Don't believe anything the members of NKT tell you, they have a history of online "recruitment" and debate tactics. They're also as sectarian as it gets.
"The so-called Drakpa Gyaltsen pretends to be a sublime being, even though he is not, And since this interfering spirit and creature of distorted prayers Is harming everything - both the dharma and sentient beings - Do not support, protect or give him shelter, but grind him to dust." - the 5th Dalai Lama
If you want to know more, I suggest reading these lengthy topics from E-Sangha. You have to be registered to read though.
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/in...wtopic=34974
http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/in...wtopic=45610
(edited links) |
Edited by - Pero on May 17 2008 11:00:46 PM |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2008 : 09:45:59 AM
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| Pero - Thanks for the links. I registered and will read them to see what they have to say. I stopped going to NKT after this AYP discussion, but have been going to a weekly meditation (NKT based), mostly because it's a 5 minute walk from my apartment, and because I like the teacher. But maybe you're right - maybe ANY contact with them is a bad idea. I'll read the articles and decide. Great website, btw - thanks for that link (lioncity.net). |
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Pero
3 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2008 : 7:41:28 PM
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Well I'm not sure, maybe you wouldn't have any problems that way, but I personally wouldn't tempt "misfortune". :)
You could also ask on E-Sangha if there are any other centers near you that you might like.
Oh I never introduced myself here haha. There's not much to say really, I'm from TaoBums (and E-Sangha). :lol |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - May 18 2008 : 7:58:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Pero
Well I'm not sure, maybe you wouldn't have any problems that way, but I personally wouldn't tempt "misfortune". :)
You could also ask on E-Sangha if there are any other centers near you that you might like.
Oh I never introduced myself here haha. There's not much to say really, I'm from TaoBums (and E-Sangha). :lol
Welcome!  |
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Pero
3 Posts |
Posted - May 19 2008 : 07:03:06 AM
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| Thanks. |
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Peljor
United Kingdom
1 Posts |
Posted - Jul 07 2008 : 8:45:48 PM
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I hope this is not to late to find you guys...
please check out the new website:
www.NewKadampaTruth.org
to see how the tradition has been at the receiving end of smears and ostracism over the last 12 years, and please don't be so quick to believe everything you read on the Internet. One of the most reputable anti-defamation law firms in the world said, after weighing the evidence: "It is clear to us that the NKT is a reputable international organization that has experienced a great deal of defamation to undermine its reputation."
Another good website if you want both sides of the story: www.WisdomBuddhaDorjeShugden.org |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2008 : 08:28:05 AM
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Thanks for the links, Peljor. I'll def. check them out. To the best of my ability I've kept an open mind throughout my reading on the NKT, as I haven't an ax to grind in either direction. The people I've encountered have been wonderful without exception, and open to discussing their alleged 'cult' status (to some degree; I'm sure they see me as a pain in the ass). I did make the decision to stop going, though. I'm no lawyer, but the evidence didn't seem to be in their favor; or, at least it left enough of a question in my mind that I couldn't stay without sorting out their influences. It's their history that casts a shadow, you know. And it seems to come down to the choice of believing Kelsang Gyatso or believing the Dalai Lama. This unfortunately demonizes Gyatso, and many assume that he's evil, which I think is nonsense. He appears to be an amazing & gifted teacher, but the fact that he conflicts with the DL on some issues hasn't worked in his favor.
So thanks for your imput - I'll check it out. But for the most part I'm back to where I started, which is reading Yogani's lessons. :) His Enlightenment Series is an amazing set of teachings, and without the questionable past, or the opposition to any other spiritual teachings.
Welcome to the forum, btw. |
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Twinks
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - Sep 13 2008 : 08:47:51 AM
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Hi Y'all,
Thanks for bringing this topic up. I've been attending classes from the NKT for few years now and feel like they have given me great benefit in my daily life. From what I can tell this is real Dharma. I've never been forbidden to read other books (I do) and no one has tried to control me or dictate how I live my life. So it's always amazing to me to read these forums which call the NKT a cult (whatever that means). I've met some really amazing practitioners there.
Recently the teacher at the NKT center in Seattle talked about the controversy with the protector and the Dalai Lama. I was amazed at his directness and openness. I investigated further and found a lot of things said about the NKT that just aren't true from my own experience. After a few years you think you'd notice something wouldn't you? Anyway, I have concluded that it's mainly a political thing with the Dalai Lama. I saw a YouTube video that even showed the Dalai Lama admitting to the audience that he engaged in this practice for many years - something like 20 years. Seems strange to suddenly decide it's an "evil" practice. I'm sad to find out some other things about the Dalia Lama. As I find out more things seems like he's trying to give a final push to combine all Tibetan traditions under his rule. Only some gelugpa Geshe's are holding out. I heard recently that two new monastaries are opening up in India to allow Dorje Shugden practitioners to practice freely. The practice was banned by the Dalai Lama and if gelugpa monks didn't abandon the practice they were expelled from their monastaries. Anyway, sounds like things are really coming out. I'm following the issue very closely. From my own experience I can see that politics and Dharma don't mix.
Thanks
Twinks |
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AlanCrawfordUK
United Kingdom
24 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2010 : 5:26:13 PM
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| I attend weekly classes at a NKT Centre here in the UK. I agree that the Dharma teachings are so profoundly simple and practical and really do improve my life and my relationships with other people. The principles of patient acceptance and non-attachment are explained in a way that is accessible and easy to understand from a western perspective. The people at the centre are very genuine, spiritual people and seem so far removed from the controversies discussed above. |
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sulmaya
Faroe Islands
1 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 07:03:17 AM
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Hi!
These are interesting topics, which is why I am responding.
I have had long association with the NKT (about 15 years) and have also had the chance to take part in many events and read many books by other traditions, such as FWBO, FPMT, Diamond Way and some others. Like the monk one of you wrote about, I am a huge fan of Chokyam Trungpa, as well as many similar authors like J. Krishnamurti.
Generally, I never encountered any opposition within the NKT regarding my love of other books. I have openly spoken to members about my dislike of the way in which the whole Dorje Shugden issue is being treated, and openly voiced my doubts concerning many teachings. Most of these have been met with interest, openess and a willingness to engage in discussion.
Behind closed doors however, as with any one of the above mentioned Buddhist traditions, there is a very harsh iron fist controlling the institutional traits of the NKT. Some 'higher' personell of the head office generally try to run the tradition in a very ridgid way, surpressing any questioning, discussion or alternative views. I have long since made up my mind not to get involved with that aspect, and I don't allow it to bother me in the slightest. It is human nature: the need to identify with some kind of group and zealously protect it. Along those lines, I have to say that I have been kicked out of a Tibetan shop in Zurich once after the owner gathered that Geshe Kelsang was one of my teachers...
From what I know, and in my own opinion, these problems are more likely caused by a kind of committee of people in charge of admin, business and organisation within the tradition, rather than by Geshe Kelsang or whoever the root Guru of the respective tradition may be.
For me, the bottom line is always this: You must be your own spiritual guide, you must find your own way and you must remain open to truth/Dharma. If we attach ourselves to any tradition and conclude that we have found 'the path', then we close ourselves to actual spirituality. This issue is more about confusing institution with actual dharma; or as Trungpa calls it, 'spiritual materialism'. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Apr 28 2011 : 07:46:24 AM
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| I see several new people here, so welcome to the forum! And thank you for your good attitude. At AYP it is about practices that work based upon a lot of people trying them, and not about holding on to anything because of ego or tradition. |
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BuddhiHermit
United Kingdom
84 Posts |
Posted - Jun 01 2011 : 09:36:45 AM
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This may be of interest to subsequent readers of this thread.
I have taken a look at: http://www.iivs.de/~iivs01311/SDLE/Contents.htm, and it appears to be a relatively unbiased source.
Some observations
It appears that Tibetan in-fighting has deep and historical roots.
The fighting is done on physical, political, and magical levels.
The magical fighting is considered to be just as real as the other two, and is monitored via dreams and oracles.
At the magical level, it is most likely believed that reducing the number of Shugden worshippers will reduce the strength of that deity's ability to attack the Dalai Lama in his attempt to integrate the various sects.
As the efficacy of our meditation is moderated by our intent and attitude, the choice of one protector deity over another can be irrelevant to progress along the way. In the Tibetan systems, magical techniques are primarily used during the purification process to subdue or eliminate emotional and desire based mental content, but these become less relevant once meditation has been achieved.
The main danger is in whether we become enmeshed in magical workings directed at material or political aims, rather than meditation.
It seems to me that Tibetan ways are being challenged to adapt to a more open world, which is itself attempting to become more co-operative, and we are seeing the effects of that challenge. I think sulmaya's post also sums it up well.
Some supporting excerpts and paraphrases from the link above follow:
History
In earlier times Pehar reigned as war god of the Hor Mongols. According to the sagas, this wild tribe was counted among the bitterest opponents of the pre-Buddhist Tibetans. After terrible battles the Tibetan national hero defeated the rapacious Hors, and won their commitment and that of their chief god, Pehar, with an eternal oath of loyalty. Padmasambhava magically mastered Pehar, who was thus “Buddhized”, and 900 years later, the “Great Fifth” Lama pressed the former war god of the Hor into service as the state oracle.
The Tibetan state oracle (Nechung Lama) is one of the most highly respected and influential lamas in the Tibetan state.
The Tibetans can be described without exaggeration as being “addicted to oracles”, and the Dalai Lama is known not to take important decisions of state without first consulting the State Oracle. The deity conjured up is called Pehar.
Drakpa Gyaltsen, the abbot of the powerful Drepung (Yellow Hat) monastery, organized a rebellion against the “Great Fifth” lama, but was discovered and eliminated. After his death he transformed into a warlike martial spirit and took on the fearsome name of Dorje Shugden.
A group within the Yellow Hat (Gelugpa) order, used magical and political means to gain the supremacy of their order. They elevated Dorje Shugden into a position as a protective deity of their group.
Politics
Since 1996 at the latest, Pehar and his Nechung medium have met with embittered competition from among the Tibetan’s own ranks. This is in the matter of the tutelary and divinatory deity, Dorje Shugden.
It is primarily conservative circles among the Gelugpas (the “Yellow Hats”) who have grouped around this figure. They demand the exclusive supremacy of the yellow sect (the Gelugpas) over the other Buddhist schools.
This traditional political position of the Shugden worshippers is not acceptable to the Fourteenth Dalai Lama (although he himself is a member of the yellow sect) because he is working towards an integration of all Tibet’s religious orientations, including the Bonpos.
Struggle
In 1976 the Fourteenth Dalai Lama (Kundun) declared that he did not wish for his person to associated in any way with Dorje Shugden, especially because the worship of this “reactionary” spirit had come into conflict with three other dharmapalas (tutelary gods) which he revered highly, the oracle god Pehar, the terrible Palden Lhamo, and the protective god Dharmaraja.
Rumors report of a dream of the Kundun in which Shugden and Pehar had fought with one another.
On a number of occasions Pehar prophesied via the Nechung Lama that Shugden was attempting to undermine the sovereignty of the Kundun.
The following statement by the Kundun has been leaked from a secret meeting of influential exiled Tibetan politicians and high lamas which the Dalai Lama called to discuss the Shugden case in Caux (Switzerland): “Everyone who is affiliated with the Tibetan Society of Ganden Phodrang government (Tibetan Government) should relinquish ties with Dhogyal (Shugden). This is necessary since it poses danger to the religious and temporal situation in Tibet.
Namaste |
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New Kadampa Tradition and Geshe Kelsang Gyatso
