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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 24 2008 : 1:32:23 PM
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Hey, selfonlypath, I've read through the topic concerning the disagreement between the two schools of teaching of the three bodies of dharma.
To put this in perspective, try asking a terminally ill person which hospital is preferable at the point of death. You'll probably get the answer that it doesn't matter, now, since all the person is concerned about is making the living more comfortable. If you ask a person who is going in for a tonsillectomy, and will be out in a week, you may get a different answer. That's describing Samadhi also.
Take care:
VIL |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2008 : 3:30:40 PM
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I'm really sorry VIL, but for some reason I cannot fully understand from english to french the spirit of your answer !
Would it be possible for you to expound or explain differently ?
Thank you in advance, Albert |
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avatar186
USA
146 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2008 : 6:38:33 PM
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i have an introduction to tibetan buddhism book. one word for you.
vajra. whitch is sexual sublimination. or tantra.
"the secret of the golden flower" a book with sexual sublimination practises. |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2008 : 7:09:55 PM
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Sorry, selfonlypath, it was spoken from the perspective that truth cannot be taught, but realized. So it's like spinning wheels to criticize one school in comparison to another. When both schools are intent on helping people reach this same goal. I used the analogy of hospitals instead of schools to make this point that it doesn't matter what external school a person goes to realize the self, since their bhakti will direct them on the right path. It's putting trust in the universe to take care of you.
It's what the Buddha called a Dhamma Mirror for internal reflection and is likened to the Diamond Mind to cut through all of the delusion - This is something I just looked up, but coincided perfectly, since truth is one, as natural law is one.
Your post also helped me, since I often wondered why I would experience any type of sexual desire and bliss along with higher states of consciousness with this still present if I am truly detached. This gravitational pull of the muladhara or mineral is the compression needed to form the diamond, and is what I needed. So thank you for that, selfonlypath, and Buddha.
Anyway, the author also mentioned the three roots and expounded his perception of these roots whose origin are from the seed. It's like saying, this branch is better than this branch when it's the same tree or whatever metaphor that we can think of.
I view the term dharma the same as is noted here, as per my analogy of death:
There is no dharma whatsoever taught by the Buddha to whomever, whenever, wherever. --Mûlamadhyamakakârikâ, nirv#7751;ânaparîk#7779;â, 25:22-24
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharma
Take care:
VIL
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Feb 26 2008 : 06:20:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by VIL
It's putting trust in the universe to take care of you.
Hey VIL,
Thank you for reminding this.
quote:
Your post also helped me, since I often wondered why I would experience any type of sexual desire and bliss along with higher states of consciousness with this still present if I am truly detached. This gravitational pull of the muladhara or mineral is the compression needed to form the diamond, and is what I needed. So thank you for that, selfonlypath, and Buddha.
Please find an extract of a personal essay I wrote a few years ago on red tantra about what you observed regarding mystical sexual desire:
Sexuality & spirituality:
- our parents made love in this plane so a baby came from the cosmos and incarnated here
- the baby grows and is on the quest of where do I come from, who am I now, where do I go when I die
- one tantra among others (there are many tantra variants) is red tantra aka left hand tantra
- red tantra says many things, in particular one way to answer the above quest is to realize that going back to the sexual act again, we can see the all situation and realize the answer of the quest
- in other words, making love is one possible tunnel one can enter consciously to then travel on an expansion of energy / counsciousness leading to the real experience of death zone
- but it needs a trick: to realize first that genital sexuality / orgasm is an illusion and one should experience body / cosmic orgasm
- for a man that means to learn & practice a full body orgasm without ejaculation but this is just the first step of the initiation
Albert |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Feb 26 2008 : 08:49:39 AM
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quote:
Sexuality & spirituality:
- our parents made love in this plane so a baby came from the cosmos and incarnated here
- the baby grows and is on the quest of where do I come from, who am I now, where do I go when I die
- one tantra among others (there are many tantra variants) is red tantra aka left hand tantra
- red tantra says many things, in particular one way to answer the above quest is to realize that going back to the sexual act again, we can see the all situation and realize the answer of the quest
- in other words, making love is one possible tunnel one can enter consciously to then travel on an expansion of energy / counsciousness leading to the real experience of death zone
- but it needs a trick: to realize first that genital sexuality / orgasm is an illusion and one should experience body / cosmic orgasm
- for a man that means to learn & practice a full body orgasm without ejaculation but this is just the first step of the initiation
It's a small wonder how sexuality and spirituality is often separate isn't it selfonlypath? I'd be interested in hearing more on this subject if you wouldn't mind.
Thank you:
VIL |
Edited by - VIL on Feb 26 2008 09:21:42 AM |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2008 : 01:25:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by VIL
It's a small wonder how sexuality and spirituality is often separate isn't it selfonlypath? I'd be interested in hearing more on this subject if you wouldn't mind.
Well, this split between sexuality and spirituality seems to be the deepest blockage humankind has been facing.
After all, surrendering to full non-duality awareness is about being branded by no name.
Albert |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2008 : 07:50:04 AM
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I believe EVERY path is good for someone; there are no dead ends. Just because we leave a path in favor of a great short cut doesn't mean the path wouldn't have eventually led to the same conclusion. Some saints have achieved self realization with bhakti alone, and no official path.
Even a path with serious lies in it can help someone. Some people have to experience long, circuitous sidetracks from their paths in order to get over blockages. |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2008 : 1:48:04 PM
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Thank you Etherfish for your wisdom post. I see your point and this might help me relax on my obsession to not fall into a dead end system as I did also express on another thread under "different risings" with the possible dead end of a "vajra-rising".
Maybe the dead end or "cul de sac" has more to do with speed versus safety which is "self pace" AYP teaches !
Namaste, Albert |
Edited by - selfonlypath on Feb 28 2008 01:26:42 AM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 27 2008 : 9:04:42 PM
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| I think AYP offers speed AND safety! |
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Nirodha
New Zealand
86 Posts |
Posted - Mar 04 2008 : 06:30:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by selfonlypath
Upon googling on "red drop" "white drop" "central channel", I've found this unusual perspective that highly criticize all tibetan sects. It is long to read but I would be interested to have your feeling on this:
...
This mystic living in Taiwan might express some of my doubts I've always had about Tibetan schools explaining why I've never took my vows or refuge.
Hi Albert,
I personally feel that Tibetan Buddhism is too overly complicated, overly ritualized, overly mystified and overly authoritarian for my own needs; which is why I never took a serious interest in it. As a matter of fact, I find it so overly complicated that I'm surprised that anyone can navigate it successfully - I'm by no means an unintelligent person. Therefore, I don't think I'm unable to understand it fully.
If one examines the Noble Eightfold Path, as specified by the Buddha in the Pali Canon, one will see it's a relatively simple practice strategy that only regards commitment and dedication to it in order to produce the desired results:
Magga-vibhanga Sutta (SN XLV.8) - Analysis of the Path
"I have heard that at one time the Blessed One was staying in Savatthi at Jeta's Grove, Anathapindika's monastery.
There he addressed the monks, saying, "Monks."
"Yes, lord," the monks responded to him.
The Blessed One said, "I will teach and analyze for you the Noble Eightfold Path. Listen and pay close attention. I will speak."
"As you say, lord," the monks responded to him.
The Blessed One said, "Now what, monks, is the Noble Eightfold Path? Right view (samma-ditthi), right thoughts (samma-sankappa), right speech (samma-vaca), right action (samma-kammanta), right livelihood (samma-ajiva), right effort (samma-vayam), right mindfulness (samma-sati), right absorption (samma-samadhi).
1) Right view (samma-ditthi)
"And what, monks, is right view? Knowledge with regard to anxiety (dukkha), knowledge with regard to the origin of anxiety, knowledge with regard to the ending of anxiety, knowledge with regard to the way of practice leading to the ending of anxiety: This, monks, is called right view.
2) Right thoughts (samma-sankappa)
"And what is right thought? Having thought of renunciation, upon freedom from ill will, upon harmlessness: This is called right thought.
3) Right speech (samma-vaca)
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, abstaining from divisive speech, abstaining from abusive speech, abstaining from idle chatter: This, monks, is called right speech.
4) Right action (samma-kammanta),
"And what, monks, is right action? Abstaining from taking life, abstaining from stealing, abstaining from being unchaste: This, monks, is called right action.
5) Right livelihood (samma-ajiva)
"And what, monks, is right livelihood? There is the case where a disciple of the noble ones, having abandoned dishonest livelihood, keeps his life going with right livelihood: This, monks, is called right livelihood.
6) Right effort (samma-vayam)
"And what, monks, is right effort? (i) There is the case where a monk generates aspiration, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds and exerts his intent for the sake of the non-arising of evil, unskillful qualities that have not yet arisen. (ii) He generates aspiration, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds and exerts his intent for the sake of the abandonment of evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen. (iii) He generates aspiration, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds and exerts his intent for the sake of the arising of skillful qualities that have not yet arisen. (iv) He generates aspiration, endeavors, activates persistence, upholds and exerts his intent for the maintenance, non-confusion, increase, plenitude, development, and culmination of skillful qualities that have arisen: This, monks, is called right effort.
7) Right mindfulness (samma-sati)
"And what, monks, is right mindfulness? (i) There is the case where a monk remains focused upon the physical body -- ardent, aware, and mindful -- putting away greed and anxiety with respect to the world. (ii) He remains focused upon sensations -- ardent, aware, and mindful -- putting away greed and anxiety with respect to the world. (iii) He remains focused upon the mind -- ardent, aware, and mindful -- putting away greed and anxiety with respect to the world. (iv) He remains focused upon mental states in and of themselves -- ardent, aware, and mindful -- putting away greed and anxiety with respect to the world. This, monks, is called right mindfulness.
8) Right absorption (samma-samadhi)
"And what, monks, is right absorption? (i) There is the case where a monk -- quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental states -- enters and remains in the first absorption (jhana): bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha) born from withdrawal, and applied and sustained attentions (vitakka and vicára). (ii) With the stilling of applied and sustained attentions (vitakka and vicára), he enters and remains in the second absorption (jhana): bliss (piiti) and joy (sukha) born of absorption, unification of awareness applied and sustained attentions (vitakka and vicára) -- internal assurance. (iii) With the fading of pleasure (piiti), he remains in equanimity, mindful and alert, and sensitive to bliss (piiti). He enters and remains in the third absorption (jhana), of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous and mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' (iv) With the abandoning of pleasure and pain (sukha and dukkha)-- as with the earlier disappearance of elation and anxiety -- he enters and remains in the fourth absorption (jhana): purity of equanimity and mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain(sukha and dukkha). This, monks, is called right absorption."
That is what the Blessed One said. Gratified, the monks delighted at his words."
Kind regards,
Nirodha |
Edited by - Nirodha on Mar 04 2008 10:26:02 AM |
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mikael
27 Posts |
Posted - Mar 23 2008 : 2:43:30 PM
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i agree about TB being overly complicated.
there are so many levels and practices.
Dzogchen is great, it has similarities with Zen and Shivaism. unfortunately to practice Dzogchen you need to invest years into preliminary ngondro practices where you prostrate over 100,000 times. and then there are the lower tantras of visualization.
many Lamas do say that Dzogchen is the best practice for our age, and i agree. but making the preliminaries necessary just wastes time.
there are many who have been practicing TB for over 20-30+ years. who wants to wait that long?
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Mar 24 2008 : 07:27:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mikael
unfortunately to practice Dzogchen you need to invest years into preliminary ngondro practices where you prostrate over 100,000 times. and then there are the lower tantras of visualization.
many Lamas do say that Dzogchen is the best practice for our age, and i agree. but making the preliminaries necessary just wastes time.
there are many who have been practicing TB for over 20-30+ years. who wants to wait that long?
Hey Mikael,
Well any serious mystical path requires preliminary purification steps before experiencing safely an authentic kundalini awakening. For example: AYP it is lesson 13, tibetans it is ngondro,...
I'm curious to know what is your method to skip safely the preliminaries ?
Albert |
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Is Tibetan Buddhism a dead end?
