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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 19 2008 : 04:37:37 AM
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The topic of japa came up here so I would like to confess that I am a japa junkie. Energy created by the japa practice is at times overwhelming and rivals that of the AYP practices. But I don't want you to believe my belief system or chant my mantra, Christi ;), hehe. Simply because different mantras work differently for different people and the mantra that resonates with my bhakti may not be suitable for you. Some may disagree about this, but just like we have different physical bodies (ie. my mother has 3 kidneys and I was born with a heart turned sideways..mutants eh?), our energy bodies are also different. For example the locations of the chakras for each person is different and some people have chakras which others do not etc.. etc. However general practices are beneficial, just like walking is beneficial for most. I think my japa mantra was verified in a dream, although that could have been my subconscious repeating itself in the astral.. then again, the voice was different and the pronunciation was much more pleasant.
The reason for me doing japa is simple. If I am going to think about anything, why not think about Goddess? Sure, the Infinite can't be thought about with the limited mind, but the heart can, maybe you know what I mean? Japa reminds me of my purpose in life -- spiritual practice, it clears my subconscious by the introduction of the single thought/emotion.. and then there's the overwhelming bliss... is this leading me to a dead end? Am I in a hypnotic state? I don't think so but I'll report back later if anything terrible happens. Maybe I'll go take an IQ test to see if I am becoming a vegetable hahaha.
AUM .. .... .. ooops.. :) |
Edited by - Chiron on Feb 19 2008 05:33:14 AM |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2008 : 05:33:45 AM
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| What is the difference between AUM and OM? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4368 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2008 : 08:02:01 AM
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Hi Chiron,
quote:
The topic of japa came up here so I would like to confess that I am a japa junkie. Energy created by the japa practice is at times overwhelming and rivals that of the AYP practices. But I don't want you to believe my belief system or chant my mantra, Christi ;), hehe. Simply because different mantras work differently for different people and the mantra that resonates with my bhakti may not be suitable for you.
Well, I am glad you're not going to force me to chant your mantra!  That is a relief.
As Yogani says, it will work as a spiritual practice for some people, and it may well work for you. I am sure it worked for Amma which is why she recommends it to all her students (disciples).
But what I am concerned about is that there are some people for whom the practice doesn't work, and for whom it can even be detrimental. And I think (from my own observation) that that is true for the majority of people who have taken up the practice.
Who knows, I could well benefit from it, just as many members of this forum possibly could, and equally possibly, Krishnamurti could have found it helpfull as well. But for me that's not the issue. It's about what is helpfull for the majority of spiritual practitioners, and weighing that up against the potential dangers.
The same is true in the case of people reading Krishnamurti. Some people will read his books and be really confused and abandon all their spiritual practices. Others will react with aversion and possibly anger. And others will react by saying: "Wow... that is what I had always thought... at last someone has said it" and merge in ecstatic union with the divine.
There are people who say that the numbers of people reacting with confusion, aversion or anger are so high that it is best to simply tell everyone to ignore his work. They may be right, but (as with the dangers involved in doing japa), it's difficult to get hold of any reliable statistics. Everyone is working on hunches.
But I am very glad it is working for you.... do let us know if you turn into a vegetable, so we can update our statistics. 
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Feb 19 2008 08:16:44 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4368 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2008 : 08:07:49 AM
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Hi EMC,
quote:
What is the difference between AUM and OM?
OM is the usual translation of the sanskrit letter OM. In sanskrit, OM is one letter, and the letter is only used to write that word. So if you wanted to write a word like "Omkara" you would not start with the letter for OM, you would start with "O" and then write "M" and so on.
But in the scriptures OM is described as having three seperate sylables which corespond with three different states of consciousness. So it is sometimes spelt AUM in the Roman alphabet.
Christi |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2008 : 10:08:59 AM
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| Thank you, Christi, for enlightening an ignorant! You wouldn't happen to know which three different states the syllables correspond to? |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 19 2008 : 5:27:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by emc
Thank you, Christi, for enlightening an ignorant! You wouldn't happen to know which three different states the syllables correspond to?
Hi emc. Here's a short and sweet explanation of the vibrations of A U M: http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStri...639/aum.html
on edit: Sorry to jump in there since you were asking Christi. |
Edited by - Balance on Feb 19 2008 5:37:06 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4368 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2008 : 05:00:35 AM
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Hi emc and Balance,
Thanks for that link, it gives these:
quote:
A - denotes the power of God to create the Universe.
U - denotes the power of God to preserve the Universe.
M - denotes the power of God to dissolve the Universe.
On this basis, God is known to Hindus by the three other names:
A - Brahma (Creator)
U - Vishnu (Preserver)
M - Shiva (Destroyer)
Actually I was thinking of the three states of consciousness within the OM vibration:
A: Waking state (symbolized by the bit shaped like a "3"
U: Dream state (symbolized by the curvy line next to it)
M: deep sleep state ( symbolized by the little siva moon curve above that)
Then there is a little dot, above the siva moon. This symbolizes the bindu (point) which is the Turya state beyond the other three states. Just as Brahman is said to be beyond the Trimurti (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva), and beyond the world of form.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Feb 25 2008 01:52:02 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4368 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2008 : 05:04:58 AM
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Hi Katrine,
quote:
Thank you all for the Krishnamurti recommendations.
I searched Utube yesterday......and ended up watching some Krishnamurti videos.
His eyes.....had me smiling the whole time. The clarity pouring through them.........it was just....it left me stunned.
I sat there afterwards.....in the presence. And it just dawned on me why the relief is so great:
It is not that the mirror is clear.....it is not that.
It is simply that there is no mirror in the first place.
Yes, to be a mirror, you have to be mirroring something that you are not. There are two stages beyond the "being a mirror" stage.
When Krishnamurti gave a talk to a thousand people, there was only one person in the room. Who could mirror who, when there is only one person in the room?
Christi |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2008 : 08:38:59 AM
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Hi Katirne,
I saw a video of K a while back, and what impressed me was how supple his body was for someone his age, and expecially how much he seemed to care about the kids he was conversing with. He was so engaged with them.
Best, yb. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2008 : 10:35:31 AM
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Christi said:
Actually I was thinking of the three states of consciousness within the OM vibration:
A: Waking state (symbolized by the bit shaped like a "3"
U: Dream state (symbolized by the curvy line next to it)
M: deep sleep state ( symbolized by the little siva moon curve above that)
Christi, is OM -- rhyming with 'home' -- a mistake then? Because AUM, apparently the proper(?) pronunciation of 'om', doesn't rhyme with 'home', it doesn't rhyme with any English word as far as I can see -- if we wanted to really Anglicize the spelling it would be OWM or alternatively OUM. That would be the way AUM would be pronounced in say German or Spanish, two languages that are quite phonetic and unambiguously have the classical sounds for A-U-M.
Just to be unambiguous, I'm going to write OM/home for the OM rhyming with 'home', and AUM/owm for the OM pronounced owm. I'm really curious about how this question plays out. OM/home and AUM/owm are really two entirely different sounds, two different mantras so to speak, while apparently the same symbol is being used to represent them.
To add a little more spice to the question, my experience with OM/home is the same as yours Christi -- I feel very little with OM/home, while I feel a lot with certain other mantras. But while I don't feel much with OM/home, AUM/owm is an entirely different story. It feels much more significant, stronger, more potent. I feel while OM/home goes right through me and goes nowhere -- AUM/owm resonates powerfully. (Actually, to be more detailed, OM seems to focus a little in the center of my body, but not powerfully. It doesn't resonate much.) AUM/owm seems to resonate in my body as a whole, as opposed to, say AIM(I'm), a mantra I use, which resonates in my head. Is this a missing piece of the puzzle -- is AUM/owm the 'real McCoy', the real Bija mantra whose symbol is given by that famous sacred symble for 'OM'?? And is OM/home a modification of it, a somewhat less potent variant of the true bija mantra, arguably a different and less effective mantra entirely?
Christi, give AUM/owm a try and tell me if it feels the same as OM/home, or more powerful than it, or if you find anything interesting. I'm very interested in what you find, because you seem to be quite sensitive to mantras, and yet have a similar experience to mine with OM/home. Consider trying to put AUM/owm in where you've used OM/home before -- have a shot at SRI AUM SRI AUM AYAM AYAM NAMAH. It feels more powerful to me with AUM/owm than OM/home.
Some more grist for the mill....
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 20 2008 3:41:06 PM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2008 : 11:11:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
Hi emc and Balance,
Thanks for that link, it gives these:
quote:
A - denotes the power of God to create the Universe.
U - denotes the power of God to preserve the Universe.
M - denotes the power of God to dissolve the Universe.
On this basis, God is known to Hindus by the three other names:
A - Brahma (Creator)
U - Vishnu (Preserver)
M - Shiva (Destroyer)
Actually I was thinking of the three states of consciousness within the OM vibration:
A: Waking state (symbolized by the bit shaped like a "3"
U: Dream state (symbolized by the curvy line next to it)
M: deep sleep state ( symbolized by the little siva moon curve above that)
Then there is a little dot, above the siva moon. This symbolizes the bindu (point) which is the Turya state beyond the other three states. Just as Brahman is said to be beyond the Trimurti (Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva), and beyond the world of form.
Christi
Hi Christi. Your understanding of the vibration of A-U-M corresponds to the Mandukya Upanishad:
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandukya_Upanishad
"Explanation of Aum as in Mandukya Upanishad
Three mâtrâs
There are three mâtrâs in the word aum : ‘a’ as the ‘u’ in ‘but’; ‘u’ as the ‘u’ in ‘put’; and the ‘m’ in ‘balm’. The term mâtrâ is used for the upper limb of Nagari characters and a syllabic instant in prosody. Esoterically, the ‘a’ stands for the first stage of wakefulness, where we experience in our gross body the totality of external experiences through our mind and sense organs. The ‘u’ stands for the dream state of sleep in which mental experiences are available, though erratically, by the mind which is the only thing which is then awake, without the help of the external sense organs or the presence of the rationalising intellect.
Waking state and Dream state
The two kinds of experience, namely those of the waking state and those of the dream state, contradict each other, in the sense that a man may experience hunger in a dream though he has eaten in the waking state a few minutes earlier.
Deep sleep state
In the state of deep sleep, represented by the sound ‘m’, there is no consciousness of any experience; even the mind has gone to sleep. But still there is an awareness after the deep sleep is over that one has been sleeping. Mândûkya Upanishad says that in the state of deep sleep, the Atman which is always present, has been the witness to the sleep of the body and it is this source from which issues the memory of sleep.
Beyond the three states
It is the Atman which is also present beyond the three states of experience. The fourth state (turîya avasthâ) (see turiya) corresponds to the silence that ensues after one has steadily pronounced aum. It is the state of no matra (amâtrâ). In that silence Consciousness alone is present; there is nothing else. Therefore there is nothing to be cognized or be conscious of. This is the substratum of even the other three states of experience. During the silence that follows the recitation of aum, one is advised to merge in that Consciousness, in fact, be that Consciousness. That Consciousness is the Atman. That is Brahman. To underscore the point that the ‘fourth state’ is not another ‘state’ of consciousness, but consciousness itself, turîya avasthâ is simply called turîya (the fourth)."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Brahma-Vishnu-Shiva (creator, preserver, dissolver) I assume are "personifications", if you will, of the three states.
I have always pronounced all three aspects of the expression, Aaaa-Uuuuu-Mmmmmmm. |
Edited by - Balance on Feb 20 2008 11:25:17 AM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2008 : 12:00:31 PM
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Balance quoted:
here are three mâtrâs in the word aum : ‘a’ as the ‘u’ in ‘but’; ‘u’ as the ‘u’ in ‘put’; and the ‘m’ in ‘balm’.
I wonder if there are typos in that? Maybe it's meant to be "‘a’ as the ‘a’ in ‘bat’; ‘u’ as the ‘u’ in ‘put’; and the ‘m’ in ‘balm’". That looks more reasonable.
However, I think the following may be better:
The 'a' in balm; the 'oo' in room (but short); the m in balm. I don't think the 'u' in 'put' is quite the ticket for the middle vowel....
The English spelling system is a disaster. The English 'oo' as in 'room' is closest in English to the classical 'u' of the Roman alphabet, much closer than the 'u' in 'put' is. The classical sound AU, could be written ah-oo in English, but when rolled into one is written in English as OW (as in dOWn) or OU (as in fOUnd). So the sound of the classically spelt AU in AUM would be like OW or OU in English spelling.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 20 2008 3:44:22 PM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2008 : 12:07:34 PM
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Hi David.
I was wondering about that too. It doesn't seem correct to me. The way you describe "A U M" fits better with the pronunciation and vibration as I know it. |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Feb 20 2008 : 4:42:41 PM
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quote:
To underscore the point that the ‘fourth state’ is not another ‘state’ of consciousness, but consciousness itself, turîya avasthâ is simply called turîya (the fourth)."
Both the fourth state and the fourth are used interchangeably, since both are spoken from the vantage point of limitation. To assign any word is to create a thought.
So does it matter if we call it the fourth or the fourth state of consciousness? I would say that it's easier to call it the latter, since a 'state' is relational to attribute and is closer to the source of conceptualization. Whereas, calling something simply "the fourth" allows for a wide range of thought association, separation and superstition.
Anyway, there will never come a time where a relational aspect is not present. We could never experience consciousness without first knowing unconsciousness or visa versa. There is no such thing as a Creator without a creation. Or the All Knowing without the Unknowing, by way of comparison.
"The Mandukya Upanishad defines turiya as follows,
The fourth state is not that which is conscious of the subjective, nor that which is conscious of the objective, nor that which is conscious of both, nor that which is simple consciousness, nor that which is all-sentient mass, nor that which is all darkness. It is unseen, transcendent, the sole essence of the consciousness of self, the completion of the world."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turiya
Just another spin on an unknown concept:
Take care:
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Feb 20 2008 4:48:12 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4368 Posts |
Posted - Feb 23 2008 : 03:41:36 AM
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Hi David,
quote:
Christi, is OM -- rhyming with 'home' -- a mistake then? Because AUM, apparently the proper(?) pronunciation of 'om', doesn't rhyme with 'home', it doesn't rhyme with any English word as far as I can see --
To be honest, I have only ever heard Americans pronounce OM to rhyme with Home. In the rest of the world, and in India, Om is pronounced to rhyme with From, Gone or One. There is a kind of drawn out version of the mantra where it takes like 10 seconds to chant it (often done in ashrams in India) and there does seem to be three sylables involved. These would be a bit like O (as in Orange), a letter that I can only describe as a cross between O and W, with a slight nasal effect, and then M (as in Mother). The middle one is quite easy as it happens as the mouth is closed slowly between O (as in Orange) and M (as in Mother).
Does that help ? 
I have started experimenting with this mantra and will report if anything exciting comes up.
Christi |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2008 : 4:36:28 PM
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Yes, that's helpful. You're starting by forcing me to be more accurate, which is a good start...
Christi said:
To be honest, I have only ever heard Americans pronounce OM to rhyme with Home.
Yes, I was little afraid you'd say that, because I was simplifying a bit. In standard English, the OM in home is a diphtong, like o followed by what I believe is a short 'oo' before the m. Native English speakers are generally quite unconscious that this O (generally before any M in English I think) is not flat and pure. If you want to get a flatter O followed by M, take the 'oa' or 'oar' and substitute an 'm' for the r, without changing the sound of the 'oa' to accommodate the 'm', you'll get something much closer to what I 'meant' (sigh) by OM/home. (If you read it like OAM there is a chance you'll pronounce it like 'loam' without the 'l' and we are back where we started.)
I'm glad though that you have an eye for this detail. To say OM/home seems bad now, so maybe I should say OM/oar just as if the O sould is purer like in 'oar'. So what's really going on is that we seem to have two very different sounds for OM-the-symbol; OM/oar and AUM/OWM. There are probably a lot of variants of both (what you said seems to confirm this), and some of the variations of the sounds for OM-the-symbol don't seem to fall even close to either camp.
This OM/oar is what I've been hearing from tapes I got years ago (in my callow yogic youth) from SRF. I remember 'OM guru OM guru ...' etc, and it was this flat-O OM, OM/oar. Not AUM/owm.
One other carification just to be sure: when I say AUM is a sound like English 'owm' (not a real English word) I mean the 'ow' to be like the 'ow' in 'clown'. Not like the 'ow' in that unusually-spelt word, 'own', as in 'my own'.
So, after some corrections, I think I'm still on a right track: from my analysis anyway, AUM/owm seems to be what OM-the-symbol is indicating above (if it has been analyzed properly), and it seems to be the analysis of AUM given by the Mandukya Upanishad. In other words, more like English 'owm'.
In other words, if the Mandukya Upanishad is correct, this mantra-of-all-mantras is AUM/'owm', not OM/oar.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 24 2008 7:01:37 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Feb 24 2008 : 6:59:03 PM
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Hi Louis, that's the OM I'm talking about. That's what I'm calling OM/oar. At least, close enough for my ear. It may be a little less round, and more umm-ish than what I have in my mind, but not in a way that leaps out at me.
On the other hand, the difference between this and AUM/owm is huge to my ear. It's like apples and oranges.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Feb 24 2008 7:20:20 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Feb 25 2008 : 04:48:22 AM
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Hi David
Yeh, that's the prounciation I use in the - shri om shri om ayam ayam namah- and it worked really well from the start.
Don't know why I went with that om because I have been listening to a Buddhist chant cd in the car for the past year or so which uses the AUM sound.
For me the OM as in oar goes straight down into quietness. The AUM seems broader and slower to come down, but might be stronger. But that's just me experimenting in front of the PC now
The SHRI bringing the energy up first seems to give the OM or AUM coming down, an extra boost.
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Krishnamurti, Meditation and Mantras
