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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 5:52:39 PM
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Hey guys, I haven't posted to the forums for a while...and I guess this post kind of explains why. This may seem like a common complaint, and honestly I hope it is. Even so, I would appreciate learning if others have had this happen.
Ok, this is pretty much about what seems to be a pleatea or maybe a regression in my practice. I have been doing AYP for almost a year now and while I've had stretches of "not much happening" I never experienced something like this. A month or so ago I started feeling like something is really starting to happen in my practice - I started "getting" meditation, pranayama was starting to show its true nature as well as asana, my sexual practices were going well. One day I felt very high after my evening sit, I felt like I was on a low dose of LSD - just very energetic, amazed at life, blah blah blah. I also began experimenting a bit with self-inquiry which always seemed to put me in a somewhat LSD-ish state. But I considered myself aware of the trappings of thinking yoga is about getting high, at least entirely.
Anyway, out of nowhere I started completely losing enthusiasm for my practice in a way I haven't before. I actually began skipping sits if they were even remotely inconvenient but I managed to force myself to do at least once a day figuring it is a phase. Then it got to a point where I was skipping a day except for maybe a 5min sit. During this time and before I noticed my mind was extremely non-silent and I was having a very hard time centering myself throughout the day. I began doing a lot of unconcious activities like watching TV and doing nothing. Mostly I didn't like that reality started to become dull and lifeless and as if I was experiencing it through a thick glass. I never allowed myself to give up practice, I think because of guilt and because it is something I have done for almost a year. I forced myself to do a full sadhana and I loved it, it felt very blissful. I thought "wow, I'm back!". But no, the next day back to normal and I didn't want to practice anymore.
I don't know what the problem is, but it's starting to feel critical. I don't feel I have regresed pre-yoga too much, just in awareness and centering. I tried looking at it objectively, analyzing the resistance, but that never gets me anywhere because its way too confusing an issue. I tried thinking "ok anthony, why do you do yoga?" I answer "because i like feeling centered, i like feeling blissful, i like having a discipline, i like gaining emotional control and stability, i think it has made me a much happier person, ect" but i do find myself thinking in the background "but im quite afraid of ego death". I have always hoped somewhat that i can get what i consider the good of yoga without the bad. i have had traumatic experiences on psychadelics that have left me very afraid of ego death and the like. but i wasnt really experiencing distressful ego feelings before this phase happened so i dont know if that is it.
i dont feel comfortable not doing AYP, but it frustrates me that my heart does not seem in it right now...so what do i do? I feel like its a situation where I cant go back, yet i dont feel im going forward.
this situation is upsetting me greatly. i was always amazed that i was able to keep it up for so long because i am really not one to stick to things. i felt it must be because ayp really is working for me. now i fear maybe it was just another phase and now it is dying, but i dont want that.
the weird thing is, i still have yoga in my mind throughout the day. when i am driving, washing dishes, conversing or whatever i still try to maintain, when i remember, a centered and yogic attitude. it still seems to be a part of me, yet i dont feel connected anymore. |
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Black Rebel Radio
USA
98 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 6:43:07 PM
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Sometimes I think it is our mind fighting for the old way that pulls us back into and I often think that it is part of the "moving toward".
It's like Tantra and cultivating your sexual energy. It is just like all practices. You can't just stop ejaculating from having a a regular sex life or regular ejaculations. You have to let go of some it every once in a while or you will go insane. Sometimes you just have to be pulled back into the maya. It reminds me of stopping drugs or alcohol and you go through this really long stretch without them and then suddenly your are overcome with the desire to get drunk or immerse yourself in that sort of consciousness in order to make our normal consciousness seem new again. That process applies to everything and often it seems like it is just this huge wave you have to ride in order to float in that ocean of stillness.
I don't know, but I know where you are coming from. All I can say is try to stick to your practices as much as you can and just be with who you are. Like somebody told me once..."Listen to the universe."
Mac |
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Buddy
6 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 7:37:23 PM
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anthony,
It happens to everyone. A lot of times the mind rebels against what it knows is best. So there must be two minds? |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 10:11:42 PM
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I think the fear of ego death you write about could have a lot to do with it. i believe it's possible that as we begin to lose ego, it sort of has a life of its own, and tries to trick us back into our old value system.
The ego likes things like your question of why you do yoga, because it knows the answers don't make much sense based on old, (pre-yoga) values.
If you answer it with "Because that's the path I have decided to follow," it is harder to argue with.
When we are meditating and our mind wanders, we just gently bring it back.
The same applies to long-term wandering. Just let the wandering be OK, and gently return to practices. This helps to affirm that there is a part of you that is bigger and more stable than the mind.
There is a part of you that will keep returning you to the path you have chosen even when your ego can find no reason to stay on the path. This is your "intent", and is totally under your control without having to have a reason. |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 10:59:02 PM
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Anthony, I want to thank you for your bringing this up and your willingness to share your your vulnerability.
I must have started right about the same time with AYP because it is coming up on a year now. I have had the same thing happen to me recently. It is not like the "real" world has any real allure, its just that it keeps on being there. No matter how much I focus on the Path the world still has to be reckoned with, I haven't flown off into never never land or anything like that. So I had to ask myself that same question, "why am I doing this?" I have periodically had to reboot this way in my life and find that it is good to do so. In everyday existence you don't have to ask yourself why you eat or bathe or those kinds of things. And life becomes a habit of not questioning. But with this kind of spiritual practice the intent is, if not everything, its major.
So my answer to the question is to take an inventory of what it is that really motivates me. For myself, it is because of the glimpses I've seen that make this consensus reality pale in comparison and I must Know and See again that beautiful Truth. In the end it feels like the hardest work in the world but the only one really worth doing. Not to mention it is our destiny. At least it is mine because I own it.
Loving thanks,
Jill
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 12:28:55 AM
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These sorts of sentiments are piling up, alas. Last night I read this posting on another forum (at http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php...=3570&st=560)
quote:
I savored AYP for over a year as a way to chill out, but it didn't provide the level of personal progress that I desire. For many, it is all they need, but I need a stronger brew.
....and also there was Sparkle's recent thread about the frustration of not enough happening: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....PIC_ID=3318. and there are surely others.
The choice to sell AYP as a whiz-bang trip (epitomized by the Secrets of Wilder book) is a sexy way to do it. It does get people's attention. But there are downsides: 1. people drop out when they don't actually develop super powers to smite foes...or generally fail to transform into very very special beings, and 2. people do the practices waiting for Something to Happen....and that's just not the way to approach spiritual practice. Regular life is about waiting for something to happen. Spiritual practice is the very opposite of that.
The idea, I suppose, is to appeal to people's egoic desire for self-magnification and empowerment, counting on the practices themselves to retool that desire into something less individual - less geared to adding another line on one's resume ("I speak French, am a nice person, drive a BMW, and am spiritually advanced...").
The problem is that folks thus drawn in tend to either bail when they don't transform into superstars, or they seize upon yogic experiences of opening and energization to inflate precisely that which they need to melt.
Here's what you should expect...ALL you can expect: peace and happiness. That's it. Forget Wilder. Forget greatness. Forget the rest of the sell. And it's ok, becuase peace and happiness are more than enough. Anything else is just more Stuff, and there can never ever be enough Stuff if you're stuck in the delusion that you're lacking.
AYP - yoga in general - is not a hypercharged route to more Stuff. It's about stepping off the treadmill. It's not about adding on (to who you are, what you can do, what you know, etc), it's about letting go.
How to find peace and happiness? Do the practices simply, and without agenda or expectation, exactly the way you brush your teeth. It's guaranteed. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 31 2008 12:44:44 AM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 06:43:22 AM
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Hi Anthony
Maybe the follwoing poem might make some sense to you.
OurDeepest Fear
“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people won't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine, as children do. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others.”
When we begin reaching a certain point in our practice we can get frightened of our own inner light and power.
"Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure" 
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 09:48:41 AM
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Wow.. really good advice from all.
Anthony.. the title of your post without the words "I hope" and :-( is your answer.
quote:
Anthony said: now i fear maybe it was just another phase and now it is dying,
Yoga is not a phase.. it is the tool you use to find your true nature. That is why you are still here, questioning, and not going your merry way with some other new phase. When you get close to dropping ego.. your ego fights back tooth and nail to show you how futile it is to try and drop ego.
After about a year of my practice, I went through a similar phase.. when I seemed to have lost interest in my practice and anything spiritual. If you fight it, analyze it, question it, it will last longer. Anything you give your energy (thoughts) to will get stronger or at least linger on.
You are doing the right thing by keeping up with at least 5 min of practice... like Yogani says here "Just remember that practices are not all or nothing. Honoring the habit is the first step. That takes a few minutes twice per day."
The thing that helped me was to suspend all other practices and just do spinal breathing and meditation with an attitude of brushing my teeth. Not think of it being anything spiritual or yoga related or required. After a bit, the phase went away only to take me deeper into my path. You maybe close to a big opening.. that is the other time people get restless/frustrated with their practice. Just keep going like you are. You are doing great. |
Edited by - Shanti on Jan 31 2008 10:02:49 AM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 10:41:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
You maybe close to a big opening..
Shanti, per my posting above, I think that's an unhelpful suggestion to make. Sorry, I'm not picking on you, I'm just hoping we can all learn from what an increasing number of people are telling us about AYP. They're waiting eagerly for something exciting to happen, so telling them "any minute now!" just keeps them in a goal-oriented anticipatory state that pulls them out of the moment. And that's already a problem with AYP, because they've been sold on sexy wham-o "results".
In fact, telling them "any minute now" is the extreme opposite of telling them to brush their teeth and be done with it. You can't possibly walk around in the rest of your day fretting and fantasizing about lots of exciting results, and then sit down casually and unfettered with a tooth-brushing attitude. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 31 2008 10:49:36 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 10:53:23 AM
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Jim.. knowledge is a double edged sword...
When you know you tend to hold on to the knowledge and manipulate your practice, experience to fit it.
However when you don't know.. you miss it. (If I had know about kundalini etc.. I would not have suffered for years with symptoms of kundalini excess, thinking I was going mad).
The statement I made was a part of the rest of the post where I have said to do the practice like brushing your teeth and not attaching to expectations. We need to give people the whole story.. not just a part of the knowledge that we think is pertinent.
Just the way I see things from where I am right now. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 11:23:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
Just the way I see things from where I am right now.
Hey, that's exactly what the forum's for...for people to share and discuss sometimes contradictory views! Hope you don't mind my arguing... :)
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Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 31 2008 11:24:04 AM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 12:22:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
Hope you don't mind my arguing... :)
Quoting what Kirtanman once said "I don't mind much ... and I'm working on not minding anything at all ...." |
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ymladris
Czech Republic
20 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 1:36:07 PM
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I don't know, maybe I am too blasphemic. But if you are afraid that "your AYP practice is dying" ... how about to let it die? ;-)
Maybe you are angry because your preconceptions "what is it and how it is to be a yogi" are dying ... you have expected bliss but you got ego-death fear ...
You can struggle or you can let it go. If you quit AYP, so what? Maybe you will miss something and come again to ayp. Maybe you don't. But finally your bhakti will show you some way what to do. There is a plenty of time. You are not going to hell if you don't "realize" in this life ;).
Paradoxically, if I stop fighting in situations like this, and just observe .. humbly (i really don't know what is "good for me") .. the pressure magically disappear .. ;-) and the next step is clear. But you cannot count on it, you must really want to let go the attachment
But Yogani says stick to the practice no matter what; yes i am aware of it.
In such dilemma I am repeating to myself, that even if Ymladris is a great fool, slow and dumb, there is great shining ;) Ymladris in her, too, and she will find the way. There is no problem. We have plenty of time.
hope this helps
-- Y.
P.S. i admire how openly you discuss your Anthony in you ;) |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 4:56:07 PM
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quote:
Jim and His Karma: Here's what you should expect...ALL you can expect: peace and happiness. That's it. Forget Wilder. Forget greatness.
Not really, since you can't experience happiness without first experiencing sadness, and in order to continually experience happiness, you will continue to experience sorrow. It's the law of karma.
Regardless, if anyone can solve this riddle, it will help eliminate all of your karma in one big swoop:
What is like an ox, but is really a metaphor for a pickle with wings?* (answer on the bottom of page)Now, don't cheat, give yourself some time...
*Keep going...
*Not yet...
*Is it Vil's ego?...LOLOLOL...
*You are almost ready to experience greatness...
*You can't figure out the riddle? Maybe if you tried hard enough you would have understood the allegorical significance of the riddle? Maybe you were content with not bothering trying to figure out the riddle? Maybe you saw that the futility of trying to figure out the riddle? Or maybe you understood something deeper behind the riddle itself?
Okay, it's not really a riddle. But there is a deeper meaning beneath the nonsensible grouping of words. The reason that it violates the law of karma is that it is not based on an outside/inside stimulus. For example I can shout, "THAT HURT!" just for the fun of it, without feeling any type of internal/external pain. Human beings have this capacity, via LANGUAGE, whereas animals don't. Animals live within the moment, human beings are gifted with the capacity to do both, simutaneously. Therein lies your paradox and the reason why some people strive with infinite plans to accomplish a goal (possibly solving a riddle) and why others are content with the contrary. It's dependent on bhakti only, like greatness.
The Self is Great. The Ego Self is Incomprehensibly Great. So, the most you can expect is whatever you bhakti expects.
VIL
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Edited by - VIL on Jan 31 2008 5:11:17 PM |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 6:24:45 PM
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Thanks everyone for the responses.
I did some reading through Yogani's main lessons and stumbled onto one about "Why Twice a Day?" I was getting lazy with it and would decided if i was busy "eh, once a day is better than nothing". He sayd that we do it 2X a day because after 5-10 hours its as if we need to recharge the nervous system. I think because i was missing every other recharge than it made the practices i did do of much less quality to me...which in turn discouraged me even more. i have forced myself to get back to a full 2X a day routine and i have enjoyed the practices and i feel maybe i am back on track.
as far as fear of ego death and all that, i can drive myself mad trying to figure it out, and why i do yoga, and so on...but i figure i should just move along and do it anyway. i really did not enjoy or feel comfortable with the concept of stopping the practice, however.
ymladris: i resonate with your rather brave idea of letting the practice go. i thought about it, but it doesnt feel right for me right now. i think i am still in a phase of heavy change and i dont think it would be wise to stop it right now. by the way, are you a friend of Tadeas? he also lives in CR.
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 8:21:35 PM
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Hi Anthony, good to see you again.
quote:
Anthony wrote:
the weird thing is, i still have yoga in my mind throughout the day. when i am driving, washing dishes, conversing or whatever i still try to maintain, when i remember, a centered and yogic attitude. it still seems to be a part of me, yet i dont feel connected anymore.
See? You 've been infected with the yoga virus and there is no cure. This is yoga practice, too. Just keep favoring the ayp practice within your comfortable capacity. Just like favoring the mantra during meditation with gentle persuasion in the direction of your ultimate goal.
Maybe that means you don't practice sometimes or for a time.
Follow the rules gracefully and bend the rules gracefully. I don't worry too much when I miss a practice session. What for? I just practice again. It has become a settled purpose and I probably a better estimation of effort and the order of magnitude of the ultimate goal I am trying to achieve now.
Of course, Tolle would say I am postponing the achievement of that goal by trying to achieve it and that when I stop trying I will achieve it. But I don't agree with that completely.
I was in the state of not practicing meditation for about 30 years. But I never for a day didn't think about yoga and such. Just like you are talking about. I read and thought alot during that time. And I wanted to want to meditate. But I didn't really want to because if I truly did, I would have. Truth is, I had stronger desires pulling me in different a direction. But the yoga was always there. It dominated my life but in a kind of distorted way.
From a broader perpective, 30 years is not so long to take a break.
But then about the time I happened on ayp, a bunch of things came together in my mind and my life and one of them is meditation is a priority and it is going to become a permanent habit. I got my priorities straight. So I don't care about missing because it has become a settled purpose and I know it is just going to happen.
Well, this is how I dealt with it. Don't know if it helps you any.
You are in a better position than me to not waste so much time. You have this support group at young age which is based on a good model and has a wise selection of importances as a structural frame work.
Just keep working in the right direction.
Good luck and best wishes, yb.
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cosmic_troll
USA
229 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 11:58:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
This may seem like a common complaint, and honestly I hope it is. Even so, I would appreciate learning if others have had this happen.
Hi Anthony. What you describe has happened to me as well. I would imagine that most of us here have experienced similar doubts and plateaus in our practice. I say this not to dismiss your feelings, but to reassure you that it does happen and many overcome it. Even Jesus was tested 
Although I began practicing AYP about 4 years ago, the actual time I've practiced probably adds up to 2 years. I've gone months at a time not practicing, exactly because of doubt and periods of "not much happening". During such periods of not practicing, I eventually realize how much better life is when I am practicing, and how much I miss the practice.
You can't un-take the red pill
Sometimes we have to go without something in order to fully appreciate what we had. This applies to a lot of things in Life, not just spiritual practice.
I'm glad you've chosen to return to the 2x a day practice. My suggestion is that you continue with it, even when not much is happening. You may not get a lot of "highs" or scenery-type experiences, but Life does get better with these practices.
As Jim said, Peace and Happiness are more than enough. And while I don't get that 24/7, I feel that AYP leads us there eventually.
Wishing you success and progress in your practice!
cosmic |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2008 : 08:28:51 AM
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Hi Anthony,
I copied this from Yogani's ebook Self Inquiry:
quote:
First, it is good to know that in our essential nature
we are unbounded pure bliss consciousness, and that all
we are doing in practices is unfolding what we already
are in our daily life. It is also good to know that this
will lead to many practical benefits. So, it is a
worthwhile endeavor to be on the path.
Next, it is also good to know that there is a natural
progression in our spiritual unfoldment which occurs
over time, usually over a long time, except in the rare
cases of people who are born near enlightenment.
In spite of what we may have heard, enlightenment is not
an overnight event for most people. There is no getting
around this, because each of us must go through a
process of inner purification and opening, and it takes
time, even with the best of teachings. Along the way,
there are grades and stages, and the journey never ends,
even for those who are very advanced.
Best, yb. |
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VIL
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2008 : 10:58:32 AM
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Great wisdom from all and I would like to say that my entire post was a metaphor of the paradox of samayama. The dropping down of intention/bhakti, as I am sure Jim was quite aware, as shown from the absolute beauty of his post:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=1189
And also from the wisdom of Shanti, here:
quote:
shanti: You really cannot control the outcome in samyama.. you can have an intent and let go, trusting life will know what to do with your intent. That is why in group samyama, we just take the name of the person and let it go in silence, and not try and get too mindy with details on what and how to heal the recipient. It's like praying, but leaving it to God to come up with the outcome.. it's more of "thy (God/Life/Truth) will be done".. not "my will be done". This is the reason samyama is self-regulating, as long as you are doing samyama with attachment to outcome it will not work.. it's when you can drop the mind attachment, you will get the answers.
And the further wisdom is described here by Shanti:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3420
It's like that, anthony, but there really and truly is no fear to be had of an "ego death". It's just a process of percieving things differently. That's all. Nothing special. Nothing new under the sun. Although, it does become special in a different way later on. (Not special, yet special). A paradox. You don't forget who you once were or experience anything foreign like that. It's realizing the beauty of yourself and that of others.
As you continue to practice yoga or another path ('there are as many paths as there are breaths'...) it will lead to greater insight. Whether this is done consciously/unconsciously, or unconsciously/consciously, is dependent on each person's development, as yogani explains in his book (from yogibear's quote)... until both ends meet...
Insight is like bubbles rising from the bottom of the ocean, although is not necessary to hold your breath to retrieve these bubbles, it may require dexterity developing patience while treading water. The same applies to practice.
I'm annoyed with myself on completion of this post... Sometimes it's better to be quiet, regardless of what you know or don't know... allow others the joy of experience... that's the wisdom I recieved today... After this post, I will work on being quiet... allowing things to be as they are...
With love,
VIL |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2008 : 12:23:01 PM
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Hi Anthony,
Regarding ego death, here is a quote, a mantram, actually, from Yogi Ramacharaka's book Raja Yoga:
"I am an entity.
My mind is my instrument of expression.
I exist independent of my mind and am not dependent upon it for existence or being.
I am master of my mind, not its slave.
I can set aside my sensations, emotions, passions, desires, intellectual faculties and all the rest of my mental collection of tools as not I things....... and yet something remains.
And that something is I, which cannot be set aside by me for it is my very self, my only self, my real self.
That which remains when all that may be set aside has been set aside is the I, myself, eternal, constant, unchanging."
Best, yb. |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 7:03:44 PM
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Yogibear,
I also took about 30 years off from meditation. Then I found AYP. It's a long story better not to go into here but am interested in what happened with you. Was your previous experience with meditation good bad or indifferent? Don't answer if you prefer or write me off list. There aren't too many old timers to consult with.
Sincerely,
Jill |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2008 : 10:21:24 AM
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Hi Jillatay,
I don't mind talking about it. I can tell you "my story." My previous experience with meditation was fantastic. I regard it as the pivotal event of my life. I experienced a copernican revolution in my consciousness.
But I don't think I was ready for it.
My analysis of what happened with it is that, combined with the destruction of my family when I was 8 yoa, and the resulting distortion of my personality and socialization process, it took me about 30 years and a few hard knocks to become somewhat normal again.
I think that it has been a kind of purification and that I have spent the last 30 years playing catch up. Still some catching up to do.
I think I have a pretty good handle on things now. At least a better one. I was lucky to have two great mentors in my life, my yoga teacher and my chiropractic teacher. They were both like fathers to me.
I don't know where I would be without their kindness, generosity, influence and guidance.
Reading Yogani's book on Self Inquiry is confirming some conclusions I have made about life and clarifying some aspects that are still a bit muddy. But I ran into some of the pitfalls that Yogani talks about in his book.
An essential confusion for me has been the reconciliation of different teachings regarding the nature of myself. You have the the ego is not you and is bad and should be weakened crowd like Tolle and Krishnamurti and then the ego is you and is good and should be strengthened crowd represented by Ramacharaka and Y and H.
Based on my own experience and upon alot of reading, thinking and observing, I go with the ego is you and is good crowd for now. I am certainly not the lsat word on the subject. My own direct experience with meditation was an incredible strengthening of myself in a very good way.
I experienced myself as a little star, a sun, a nucleus of concentrated spiritual energy and awareness, independent of and separate from everything. I was completely I.
In reading Yogani's book, I see that I was engaging in Self Inquiry in the way he recommends at the time with good effect. But then I read all of Krishnamurti's books. And that gave me some spiritual indigestion. It confused me because the message I took away from him is that I was bad and should be gotten rid of.
This was not a good move on my part because I don't think that I had the necessary personality development at the time to critically analyze it and keep it in perspective. And I think my self inquiry became non-relational to use Yogani's term.
I became more introverted, less social and less assertive. I became disengaged. I was going thru the motions. Life developed a kind of unreality to me even tho I was functional.
Now I know that life is very real (that might seem kind of weird) and this should only occur 2x per day for a short period of time.
To me, Tolle and Krishnamurti teach essentially the same thing but Tolle is nicer and less critical (not blaming them for anything).
There is no place for self image and self esteem in their teaching. It is undesirable or unspiritual.
Tony Robbins puts it nicely when he says you have the "I am" crowd versus the "I can" crowd.
Which to me simply means the ego or witness in its static and dynamic phases.
The funny thing is that the teachers of the ego is undesirable and not you crowd often have very strong egos.
In meditation 30 years ago, I experienced an incredible strengthening of myself. I went from a dispersed and distracted state to an extremely concentrated and focused state with unbroken presense.
In the sky of my mind, I was the sun.
Thoughts were simply objects in a 6th sensory field and I was similtaneously aware of the other 5 as well.
They were thoughts about the past and future and nothing more. They had no reality other than that. There was only now. Unbroken presense.
Juxtaposing the ego, witness or spirit part of myself with the "John Smith" part of myself has been on the front burner, more or less for a while. Presently, I see no difference between the two. They are just two different states of the same the same thing, me, now.
So I am not too concerned about it any more. My sense of presense is there, more or less, regardless.
That is the essential thing. Meditation and being fully engaged in life on all levels.
But now, I am 40 pages or so thru Yogani's book and I am sure that that it will continue to increase my understanding of things.
That is a kind of summary of the last 30 or so years since the big bang.
Best, yb.
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Feb 04 2008 : 1:31:23 PM
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Yb,
One thing about having had a direct experience of, let us call it "gnosis," is you stop looking for outside validation for what is true. Well I keep looking but if when I find someone, like Yogani or yourself, I hold what is taught up to my own inner measuring stick.  So I guess I am not really looking for answers so much as for fellowship, spiritual buddies along the path.  And I have learned a lot from those buddies too.
Thanks for sharing,
Jill |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2008 : 01:18:43 AM
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Hi YB
quote:
Based on my own experience and upon alot of reading, thinking and observing, I go with the ego is you and is good crowd for now. I am certainly not the lsat word on the subject. My own direct experience with meditation was an incredible strengthening of myself in a very good way.
Sounds like you got confused between self and Self. They do sound a bit similar, and all the letters are the same, so I can see where the confusion could lie.
Only one is real, and the other is not.
By the way, who are Y and H? |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2008 : 08:40:06 AM
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Hi Jill,
Yb,
One thing about having had a direct experience of, let us call it "gnosis," is you stop looking for outside validation for what is true.
I agree. Direct experience trumps everything.
It is the accurate conceptualization of it and its significance that can be a little tricky.
Well I keep looking but if when I find someone, like Yogani or yourself,
I wouldn't lump me together with Yogani. He is a sessioned professional. I am a rookie.
I hold what is taught up to my own inner measuring stick.
Me, too.
So I guess I am not really looking for answers so much as for fellowship, spiritual buddies along the path. And I have learned a lot from those buddies too.
I look for both. I am a perpetual student.
Thanks for sharing,
Jill
Best, yb. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Feb 05 2008 : 08:44:35 AM
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Hi Christi,
quote:
Sounds like you got confused between self and Self.
How do you mean? I started a new topic on this.
Thanks, yb. |
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I hope this is a phase :-(
