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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 27 2008 : 12:03:35 PM
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I haven't done any sorts of recreational drugs in years. I have no desire at this point...I feel like, after yoga, they'd just bring me down. But I'll soon travel to Oaxaca Mexico, and will pass through the most famous village for magic mushrooms. All the people I'm with will be sampling them. I don't feel peer pressured at all, but I'm wondering what to expect, after longtime meditation work, if I do choose to try them. I'm guessing it'll just feel a little "tinny", and throw off my meditation for a couple days (sort of how getting drunk feels to me now...I retain enough witness to observe the cheapness of the supposed "high"), but that's just speculation.
Any experiences to relate from people in similar circumstance (plenty of ecstatic conductivity and silence) dabbling in a one-time trip? |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 27 2008 12:04:35 PM |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2008 : 12:35:53 PM
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I'd say it depends on the dose. If you're in tune with what is, following you heart in life, doing truly your best and at the same time you're unattached, it's gonna be fine :) otherwise it can show you how much room for improvement there is. But we can still deceive ourselves a lot if the dose is not high enough to break the barrier - that is if there's any left :)
You'll probably say: hey here I am the enlightened :) but if you're not there already the coming back is disappointing ;) and that will throw off the meditation.
It's always messed badly with my ecstatic conductivity. I experienced a lot of discomfort during the trips - some blocks in the throat and itchiness all over the body, uncomfortable feelings of static electricity. But no observable longterm effects.
my 1 cent .) |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2008 : 12:47:38 PM
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Thanks, Tadeas
Question: do you have the same reaction to alcohol?
The "I'm enlightened" thought stems from openings....of any sort (gross/subtle, temporary/enduring). For the longest time, every time anything opened (or increased its opening), it roused in me the inevitable reaction, ala Fred Sanford, of "Uh-oh, this is the BIG ONE!". But after years of such foolishness, I don't get caught up in the scenery as much. Less waiting for Something To Happen, y'know? That's just a mind game. Mind needs to anticipate what comes next. That's why we let the mind simply grind away on mantra! 
So in the unlikely event mushrooms open something previously constricted, I'm ok if it closes again. Stuff opens, stuff closes. Just stuff. I don't identify with it as much as I once did. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 27 2008 12:51:01 PM |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2008 : 2:28:42 PM
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The only thing that I can think of that would cause problems is excess energy. I'd be willing to sample them in the proper setting, but my high energy levels give rise to second thoughts. The idea of my energy levels exploding, paralyzing my body, causing aches and pains, reaching a tipping point and not being able to go back for a certain amount of time, causes some apprehension.
My guess is, though, that shrooms have been used for tens of thousands of years by man, they have impacted our genes, our civilization. There is a place for this journey in our biology. But, you have to take the right amount in the right setting. Given that is it a personal decision, some serious thought should be paid.
I would think you'd just have a laugh fest, with perm a smile, perhaps fuzzy memory of it all, but there is the small chance energy symptoms will arise and the mind will fixate on and increase them. That is if you are alone most of the time and not engaged in activity, like a walk, group discussion, prayer, or whatever you guys plan on doing.
If you don't take them, you could be the one in the group that stays sober and monitors the rest. That doesn't sound like the most fun choice, in light of the chance to take mushrooms and explore the various subtleties of your being, but you will have a chance to observe how people react to them for your own education.
The people you are traveling with, do any of them practice yoga? If so, are any of them at the level you are at when it comes to energy levels?
There are no certainties, but if you do take them, you'll probably have a good time. |
Edited by - Kyman on Jan 28 2008 04:16:13 AM |
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tadeas
Czech Republic
314 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2008 : 3:04:57 PM
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No, it doesn't have any noticeable effects on ecstatic conductivity for me. I actually stopped drinking altogether (although I did that quite rarely before), because it doesn't cause any openings. Yoga does a better job ;)
If you're unattached then you can ask yourself what the motivation for taking the shrooms would be. Waiting for something to happen? :) My theory is that, if there's basicaly no more "closed stuff" and you're living from the witness, nothing would happen. But who knows, I'm gonna test it one day, but I might lose the motivation in the process :)
Report back if you take them :) |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2008 : 4:59:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by tadeas
If you're unattached then you can ask yourself what the motivation for taking the shrooms would be.
Sheer curiosity and momentum. Why do I do anything? Why even go to Mexico? I'm alive. I experience, I move, I act. I'd never look toward substances for any sort of higher truth, or even for pleasant sensations. Yoga's a lot more effective. My question is what I might expect on a physical level if I shrug and decide to indulge, given all the yoga I've been doing. I've tried mushrooms in the distant past, but that was a whole other nervous system.
Kyman, maybe I could serve better by staying straight, so I can keep an eye on my friends in case anything happens. As for "fun", it's fun either way! And as for learning via observing, Idunno, watching people run through more mazes, experience more scenery, doesn't seem very edifying. But just as I might shrug and get on a rollercoaster or take up tango dancing, I may chew a shroom or two. We'll see.
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ymladris
Czech Republic
20 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2008 : 5:02:58 PM
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if you still experience dreams (while sleeping), something probably will happen (depends on the dose). psychedelics bring unconsciouss material to consciousness.
if 'Jim in you' does not want to be aware of something, shrooms can force it, so you can have some benefits .. better understanding to the processes of your mind
but it's about mind games, you know, practise over experience ;)
(but why not to research mind games if you know what are doing and why)
so: inquire 'who wants to eat it and why', decide wisely a keep us informed ;-)
ymladris, with almost no ecstatic conductivity but some psilocybe experineces.
p.s. hope you enjoy my czenglish |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2008 : 5:30:53 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
quote:
Originally posted by tadeas
If you're unattached then you can ask yourself what the motivation for taking the shrooms would be.
Sheer curiosity and momentum. Why do I do anything? Why even go to Mexico? I'm alive. I experience, I move, I act. I'd never look toward substances for any sort of higher truth, or even for pleasant sensations. Yoga's a lot more effective. My question is what I might expect on a physical level if I shrug and decide to indulge, given all the yoga I've been doing. I've tried mushrooms in the distant past, but that was a whole other nervous system.
Kyman, maybe I could serve better by staying straight, so I can keep an eye on my friends in case anything happens. As for "fun", it's fun either way! And as for learning via observing, Idunno, watching people run through more mazes, experience more scenery, doesn't seem very edifying. But just as I might shrug and get on a rollercoaster or take up tango dancing, I may chew a shroom or two. We'll see.
What I mean is, you'll have a greater understanding of the effect mushrooms have on the nervous system. Being that you are into yoga, your interpretation of their scenery could be interesting, and definitely worth reporting back. I'll tune it with tadeas for the conclusion.
Either way, have a great time on your trip! 
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2008 : 5:32:26 PM
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Hi Jim, interesting you should say this because right at this time I'm considering trying Ayahuasca. For similar reasons to yours. Mainly curiosity -- a sense that I might find something interesting and/or useful.
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2008 : 5:44:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ymladris
I don't think anyone alive has worked through 100% of his/her subconscious samskaras. That landscape is enormous. So I'm not sure a disinction can be drawn on that issue (also, I'm not sure the thing to do is to make them conscious...i know that phrase appears in the literature, but I suspect it's imprecise translation....it turns into whack-a-mole...but let's not do that digression here).
As for being drawn to try them or not try them...sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, y'know? Nothing that deep going on. Just doing homework on factors to bear in mind on a strictly pragmatic level.
quote:
p.s. hope you enjoy my czenglish
you bet! I just saw tom stoppard's "Rock and Roll", about the history there from 1968-1990 , Havel, the Plastic People, etc etc. So I'm Czech attuned right now.... |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 27 2008 : 5:45:50 PM
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| Thanks, Kyman and David. David, I'm not expecting anything particularly interesting or useful, really. Except in the sense that all experience is interesting and useful....and also, in the end, utterly transcendable (if that's a word!). |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2008 : 01:42:45 AM
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| Jim, I wouldn't have a negative preconception of this experience or compare it to alcohol (which it certainly does NOT resemble). I think that in an enjoyable environment it could be very positive though in your case from the way that you have described yourself I would imagine that excess energy might be a very possible result at least during the experience. So I would be prepared for that. Otherwise I would say to enjoy and if you eat the right mushrooms that they are quite physically safe anyway. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2008 : 1:29:31 PM
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Thanks, Victor. I've done mushrooms before (years ago), and I would never compare them to alcohol....or preconceive. But that's two warnings about energization, and I certainly don't want to risk that (I don't have as much headroom as I'd like), so I think I'll take a pass on them.
Thanks, all! |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jan 28 2008 1:51:13 PM |
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mikkiji
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2008 : 1:56:48 PM
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Back in the late 60's, when there were as yet no federal laws regulating it, I got a hold of a bunch of Sandoz psilocybin tablets--the pure chemical in mushrooms, lab quality stuff. I'd done some meditation by then, and learned other techniques over the next few years-za-Zen, TM, did some Tibetan chanting--I was all over the map for a while. During those years, I also continued to experiment with the psilocybin. I can no longer recall the exact dosage of the tabs we had then, but is was very strong stuff--I'd done peyote, mescaline and LSD, and none of that was anything near the psilocybin. At any rate--for me, at that time, I found those trips to be extraordinary life-altering spiritual experiences. They don't call them "trips" for nothing--I journeyed far into alternate views of life, into ways of seeing, levels of existence and layers of Reality which deeply affected me forever--stripping away my former, rigid conceptions of what is real and how we see things. It basically blew out the gunk from my psycho-emotional self and allowed me to start anew--and my meditation practices, long-term, were way deeper afterward. Your mileage may vary...
Michael |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2008 : 5:52:42 PM
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i did mushrooms before AYP and it really messed with me. it basically was the polar opposite of LSD. for me, lsd showed me the unity of all things and made me feel enlightened and really opened up my eyes to the dharma.
mushrooms, on the other hand, showed me what i percieved as the Dark Side of spirituality and caused 100% ego death, perinatal regression, and left me wallowing with thoughts of desperate suicide as i floated in the existential hell of ominpotence and with the crippling lonliness of Brahma. this caused me to have an unshakable fear of enlightenment and spiritual progress because it caused me to feel that THAT is what is in store for me. i know this is because i was not ready to experience something like that, but you do have to watch it.
if you have your head on straight and can keep a yogic mindset of detachment and feel confident about it, id say go for it. LSD has been a great one-time boost to my practice because it gives me somewhat of a sneak peek of whats ahead.
id do a lot of research first.
good luck! |
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Eitherway
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2008 : 12:39:59 PM
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Funny thing, As I look back on my 3 mushroom trips, The thing I remember the most is the detachment or witnessing. No energy issues at all. Intensity but really intensity of silence.
Without a doubt the key with all mind altering substances is taking into account the set and the setting. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 10:38:51 PM
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I think it has a lot to do with your intent in using the drug. Recreational drugs are used with the reckless intent of "Let's see what this drug does to me."
A peyote ceremony is done with the knowledge that one is dealing with a powerful thing that must be respected, and preparations are made and decisions are made as to what this powerful tool is to be used for.
This mindset is retained throughout the ceremony.
People who do these ceremonies don't like the idea of recreational drug use because it is a waste of a powerful tool. There are about 60 such drugs that occur naturally around the world. They are known to native people as being "the same" as peyote, in that they are powerful tools used for spiritual reasons, and should not be disrespected by frivolous usage. There are stories of such frivolous usage turning the spirit of the drug against one, resulting in never being able to use it again without negative results. |
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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 2:35:52 PM
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Hi Jim,
I'm curious as to why you would bother with any drug whatsoever after doing AYP so consistently?
Just wondering.
Love and light,
Babaly
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Edited by - Babaly on Feb 02 2008 2:38:14 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 02 2008 : 3:20:06 PM
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Babaly, as I said above, I'm traveling through the mushroom capital of Mexico, and I remember them as a fun drug. Indulging will be the activity of my group for that night. And while I'm not very interested in drugs these days (meditation is better), neither am I sternly "against" them (God's as much in mushrooms as in my meditation cushion). I expect neither spiritual reward nor punishment from mushrooms; such distinctions are, IMO, unyogic (yoga's about uniting dichotomies, not creating new ones around yoga).
I was wondering whether they might cause me problems, given that I have a lot more energy whirling around than before. And since there are reports of energization issues, I'll avoid.
Most people in this thread (including, apparently, you) seem to feel that I'm "looking for something" from the mushrooms. It's an interesting misunderstanding, as I said no such thing. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Feb 02 2008 3:22:37 PM |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2008 : 03:15:50 AM
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| well, Jim, it is just as possible that some of that excess energy might be released in a good way if you are in a place where this is the familiar thing to do and won't have too many cultural issues and you can be yourself. Some people actually get the yawns from these mushrooms. I think that if you are comfortable with the idea then there would be no real reason to avoid it in this situation. just be aware that you might find soem energy coming up and have the opportunity to express it and be able to let it expand comfortably. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2008 : 10:49:51 AM
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Thanks, Victor.
There are energies that can be handled by letting and expanding. I'm currently overenergized, and the more I let and expand, the more shows up! I'm a real good "letter", which is what led to this situation.
BUT (big "but") we're likely talking about different sorts of energy here. So it may well be that I can let and expand on this sort of energy without affecting my overload.
Man this is complicated. Maybe I'll just have a couple shots of mezcal and call it a night... |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 03 2008 : 9:51:39 PM
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| You can use the shrooms if you can get some time to yourself, and decide beforehand some big question you want answered, and keep your intent on it. They can give you a unique connection with God. |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2008 : 10:57:41 AM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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selfonlypath
France
297 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 12:03:00 AM
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Hey Jim,
I've noticed on other threads you're having recently difficult grounding issues. Using entheogens (ie. shrooms) might not be a good idea because this might trigger extra energy awareness that will be difficult for you to ground.
After all, grounding is about having energy go through your vessel and not leaking outside once deeper blockages are coming to surface whatever the system you practice.
You might want to read some of my posts on this thread:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=2972
Albert
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Edited by - selfonlypath on Feb 10 2008 01:00:28 AM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 10:32:21 AM
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Hi Albert
Thanks, yeah, that sounds like another way of saying what a few others have said on this thread.
The grounding issues I'm having are actually quite mild (small patch of kundalini rash, and some problems, like slightly elevated blood pressure, which seem to stem from kidney weakness which in turn has resulted only in part from overenergization). Nothing's getting worse, but neither is any of it going away, even with increasingly drastic measures (I've spent the past year intensively working on this as my top priority). The throat move I've developed ( http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=3296 ), plus Chinese herbs, plus the aggregate of everything else I've worked on, has resulted in a drastic improvement in flow down my front, which has eased the situation. But as the block has melted, yet more energy arises to fill that pipeline! So I'm still just barely staying ahead of the overdoing point. One problem is that I'm able to completely let go faster and faster in meditation, so gradually pulling back meditation time (I'm down to 10 mins once/day) also has been a zero sum pursuit.
So, to sum up, it's not that I'm upset over heavy or increasing symptoms, it's that I'm concerned because more and more drastic measures are required to maintain my present situation of merely minor symptoms. My headroom, in other words, has been disappearing, so I'm trying to be wisely proactive.
I'll go surf your postings now.... |
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scottfitzgerald
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2008 : 7:23:13 PM
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Jim
Glad to here the symptoms are under control, even though you are just staying ahead of them. I was observing the same search for grounding.
Hope I do/don't need answers in that direction soon. Bhakti is strong fear is stronger.
sf
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Magic Mushrooms after AYP
