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emc
2072 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 23 2008 : 03:25:31 AM
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I am more curious about why some has defined Ola as a female. Where I come from Ola is pretty male!  |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2008 : 05:12:00 AM
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Hi John,
My last post was in response to something I read earlier in the thread, I hadn't seen your survey until afterwards. I don't mind answering your question.
quote:
Originally posted by John C
Kyman,
would you mind please answering the survey? Are you stage 2 kechari? Is it fantastic? Would really appreciate a clear yes/no answer here.
thanks,
John
No. Yes.
But to be more clear, I have experimented with stage four and alternate nostril breathing, but it never became an ecstatic experience. At least not to the degree of the previous levels. So much of the time my meditations were in stage three. Now I use stage two because it serves the pace I have currently set for myself. Whatever connections were forged by stage three, they are easily called upon by stage two. I could try to deepen my experience of kechari, but my attention is drawn to other aspects of my biology at this time. |
Edited by - Kyman on Jan 23 2008 06:20:09 AM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2008 : 07:30:43 AM
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quote:
Hey Scott! If you don't mind...why did you stop the practice?
It's very powerful. I have started back up a little bit a couple weeks ago, going into stage 2 (since it takes more effort to reach stage 3 now) but not every day. I will go into it for like 20 seconds maybe just every once in a while. I don't need to do it more right now, because just doing meditation is enough.
quote:
So far the results are that Kirtanman says he is at or beyond stage 2 and it is fantastic. Scott was at or beyond stage 2 and says he hasn't continued doing it for a year or so.He doesn't say why he quit doing stage 2 or beyond, but by implication if he doesn't do it still his answer is that it ain't too fantastic obviously or he would still be doing it.
No, my answer is that it's too fantastic for me. "There is no mudra like the kechari!"
quote:
For those who have tried it, what effect does it seem to have?
It created a really really clear energetic pathway from the heart up to the crown. I could hear the nadi humming internally very clearly. It also seems to bring energy down from the third eye, and into the nose. So, I always go about my day with my tongue touching the part where the roof of my mouth and my teeth are, which brings a little bit of the energy back down.
Also, it created a certain state of mental absorption. Kind of like how some meditative asanas do that.
quote:
Does the benefit come from cutting into a healed cut, that grows larger over time, or do you gain the most when you are reaching and stretching the tongue back?
The benefit comes from reaching the tongue forward and upwards, I think. I think the snipping has little to do with it at all. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2008 : 07:57:00 AM
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Hi All,
quote:
LAMNN wrote to Kirtanman:
I guess if this is a popular vote, your answer is ”yes”. How many percent of the snippers agree? Well, as they say, one with God is a majority. On the other hand…
I sense certain maturity from you post. Could it be that your positive experiences of snipping have more to do with that then the actual mudra? Is less yogic yogis predestined to snip in vain?
Well, my name is on the list, so I don't mind standing up and being counted! In answer to the survey by John... no (I am still in stage one) and yes, it is fantastic.
It is unbelievable. Everything is unbelievable. I don't know if I will ever make it into stage two, and to be honest, I am less and less bothered. Like Kirtanman, I sit here with tears of gratitude in my eyes.
I think it is important to realize that practices such as kechari mudra are not appropriate for everyone right now. It is a practice that has relevance once ecstasy is part of our biological functioning. Before that, it isn't going to do much. After that, and as the ecstasy expands throughout the body, it becomes more and more relevant as a practice. But it is not a primary cultivator of ecstatic conductivity on it's own. Yogani explains all this in the lessons.
So yes, if someone does not already have an ecstatic body, and they are snipping away thinking "this is going to be fantastic" then they could well be snipping in vain. It is part of a whole range of practices that work together and are to be approached in the right order and at the right time.
I was also shocked when I heard about this practice. But I snipped because I trusted Yogani. He said it was a good idea, and I trusted him. Now I can see that he was right. If I remember rightly, he said that "one day there will be two kinds of people in the world... those that practice kechari mudra and those that don't"..... I am now seriously beginning to think that may actually be true.
Christi |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2008 : 11:26:42 AM
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Hi John I have been snipping on and off for some time now but I haven't got further than stage one yet and I am not desperate as stage one is very pleasant 
I agree with Christi it is fantastic but it will only work if you already have some ecstatic conductivity, as long as you feel those waves of pleasant energy in your body especially outside of you practices you have enough.
In my case it definitely changes my meditation…difficult to explain how but it is different and deeper for sure, In Pranayama the sensations in the spine are sharper and more defined. Everybody is different so different people will tell you different things this is just my personal experience hope it helps. 
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Lookatmynavelnow
52 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2008 : 11:54:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Christi
no (I am still in stage one) and yes, it is fantastic.
... if someone does not already have an ecstatic body, and they are snipping away thinking "this is going to be fantastic" then they could well be snipping in vain.
...I snipped because I trusted Yogani. Christi
Let me get this straight. You snipped in order to get to stage one?
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2008 : 12:16:04 PM
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I can get into stage 3.. but I am generally in stage 2 during my pranayama and meditation.. and also during various times of the day.
Would I do it again? Yes absolutely.. in a heartbeat.. it is such an easy practice with so much to add esp. with respect to quietening the mind and increasing the energy levels.. When I touch the upper wall of the nasopharynx, it feels like a circuit is complete like a switch is flipped and there is a beautiful flow of energy and a feeling of bliss.. When done in meditation.. or actually during the day too.. it quietens the mind and helps me get present.
PS: Thanks for asking this LAMNN.. I had kinda taken this practice so much for granted.. when you experience something new.. it's something huge and talked about a lot.. but then you settle into the practice.. the initial woo-hoo dies down and you enjoy the benefits. At first the bliss and ecstasy are huge.. then it becomes a part of you and you don't think about it anymore. It's true with everything we do, not just yoga.. isn't it? Good to have a reality check every now and then. |
Edited by - Shanti on Jan 23 2008 1:03:29 PM |
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Thokar
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2008 : 7:23:50 PM
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Hi Lookat,
I did perform a few very small snips in the beginning, but to be honest I think my tongue was already so close to reaching stage 2 it didn't take much at all... After reaching stage 2 for the first time I never cut again nor have I needed to, the tongue reached stage 3 after stage 2 in a matter of weeks, stage 4 after a couple months... For normal practice I almost always use stage 3 with the tip of the tongue touching up under the indentation at the roof of the palatal cavity directly under the pituitary gland... My practice is somewhat different from ayps, where I practice large ammounts of kriya (ayp spinal breathing) using the kechari mudra the entire time.. All in all the difference in practice has been immense, progress seems to come much easier and without effort while using kechari during kriya practice.. hope this answers any questions you had.. |
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insideout
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - Jan 23 2008 : 11:55:57 PM
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| I started snipping about 3 weeks ago, snipping once or twice a week. I still can't reach stage 2 but I can shove my tongue behind and up with my fingers, unfortunately it pops out without manual assistance. More like kechari 1.5. |
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 05:13:29 AM
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Hi Again,
I am interested to hear from so many people who have gotten their tongue to enter the upper pharynx and their positive reports of pleasurable experiences.
So we have heard from many people who have had very positive experiences at stage 2 or beyond stage 2. And some who just place their tongue on the roof of the mouth at the junction of the hard and soft palates and for those there are also reports of pleasurable sensation as well.
On the other hand of our "survey" we have heard from people who have tried to free up their tongue and not succeeded.
The third group of the "survey",... if there is a third group, i.e. those who are into kechari stage 2 and find it not fantastic,...they have yet to answer on this thread. They could be very few, or they could be many and just not writing in. Until those folks tell us about it, we will not be able to say whether the majority of people with a mobilized tongue are all getting the fantastic, or not getting the fantastic.
John |
Edited by - x.j. on Jan 29 2008 10:56:26 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 09:10:33 AM
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Hi LAMNN,
quote:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Christi
no (I am still in stage one) and yes, it is fantastic.
... if someone does not already have an ecstatic body, and they are snipping away thinking "this is going to be fantastic" then they could well be snipping in vain.
...I snipped because I trusted Yogani. Christi
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me get this straight. You snipped in order to get to stage one?
Yes, that's right. When I started I could not reach the place between the hard and soft palate (everyone's tongue is different ). It took quite a lot of snipping (and time) to get that far. Now I can get my tongue to a place behind the soft palate, where it is pushing upwards and there is nothing above it. But I have not found the septum yet. So I practice in stage one.
As Yogani says, the roots of the secret spot come down to meet the top of the mouth between the hard and soft palate. When the body is filled with ecstasy (or is even experiencing the beginnings of ecstatic conductivity) this becomes an important practice for activating the higher neurobiology. I believe kechari has played an important part in transforming the biology of my body, has accelerated the production of soma, and ojas, and expanded the radiance of love outward (and upward).
I have also experienced it affecting the flow of the kundalini through the crown, and the opening of the third eye. This advances entry into samadhi as Kirtanman mentioned, and makes samadhi more stable both during and outside of practices.
Oh yeah... and it feels good.... really good .
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Jan 24 2008 09:46:44 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 09:16:02 AM
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Hi John
quote:
The third group of the "survey",... if there is a third group, i.e. those who are into kechari stage 2 and find it not fantastic,...they have yet to answer on this thread. They could be very few, or they could be many and just not writing in. Until those folks tell us about it, we will not be able to say whether the majority of people with a mobilized tongue are all getting the fantastic, or not getting the fantastic.
There could be a fourth group... those who are in any stage of kechari and who are so merged with God that the very idea of reading something on a computer would seem bizar in the extreme. 
Christi
p.s. In the main lessons Yogani does say that Doctors probably won't be into it. |
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 3:00:15 PM
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Hi Christi,
But I am not opposed to the frenulum cutting, but rather just interested in gathering the information from participants. It's valuable for me and I bet others to know whether doing a series of clippings of the frenulum is all that worth while before we embark on this because it's a little bit of trouble for us unclipped folks to cut the frenulum to get the tongue mobility for stage 2.
You know it doesn't hurt to question something like this.
It helps us all to question. I kind of gave up on taking things on "blind faith" a long time ago when I left the Catholic Church about the time I left home for college. So all I'm saying is:
1) It's always a good idea to question authority, no matter how revered the person is.
2) If stage 2 is fantastic, many of us will want to do this procedure. It's no big deal really.
3) I don't think doctors would be opposed to doing a clipping of the frenulum if asked, as long as you just explain the reasoning. And most doctors are here to be of service, and are very accomodating. I would do it for anyone who asked me. Check with your local doctor or call an Otolaryngologist(Ear, Nose, Throat) ENT specialist directly, and I bet you'd be pleasantly surprised at how agreeable everything would be, provided you explained your yoga and predicament.
4) Lastly,... I bet that one can go all the way to become fully realized just fine with or without khechari. And that we can become fully realized in this one life if we are serious and determined.
Many of us here share that view.
John
P.S. I promise no further changes or editing in this message. I only edit to try to say something the most usefully possible because I realize many people will be reading these. I guess I could write these posts out by hand and wait til I have a more polished version first. Please bear with me. |
Edited by - x.j. on Jan 29 2008 10:59:42 PM |
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 4:57:15 PM
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One other comment about Christi's statement of there being a group of yogins being "so merged with God that the very idea of reading something on the computer would seem bizar(sp) in the extreme".... presumably like still read posts" at AYP.
uh...don't think so. Merged-with-God-folks would be more interested in helping others and sharing any possible information that could be of service to them. The merged group would be very much into connectivity and service.
John |
Edited by - x.j. on Jan 24 2008 5:26:58 PM |
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Thokar
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 5:45:52 PM
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Hi John,
I'd have to disagree with your statement about the 4th group christi was talking about..I know from personal experience that at times when you're really immersed in practice or the after-effect results of the practice the intoxication can be so great that you are very much unable to think about human and mundane things... these states generally don't go on for days but I'm pretty sure most out there that have been practicing for some time have experienced this to a degree (which is probably what made christi think about adding that line about them)
I'm very much convinced that most advanced beings on this earth are probably living more of a withdrawn life instead of being out in the world trying to save and help everyone they come across.. |
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 7:44:55 PM
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Whatever. Who cares? Being advanced spiritually isn't quantifiable and it isn't a contest. Whether the ascetic, drunken upon the nectar of the divine in a cave is the most advanced woman on the planet or the Mother Theresa of Calcutta, totally committed in her devotion to suffering humanity, is more advanced,...who can say? Besides, who cares?
John
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Edited by - x.j. on Jan 24 2008 8:25:33 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 9:24:33 PM
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For the purposes of the survey, I'm in 'stage 3', and I have to say it's been fantastic, particularly getting into 'stage 2' and the transition from stage 2 to stage 3.
John, for sure, we don't have enough data here to make any conclusions about what the fruits of Kechari will be, or would be, for a randomly chosen person.
We could ask a number of questions about kechari in terms of cause-and-effect, and hypothetically, do a number of different studies to determine the answer.
1. What are the probable fruits of advanced kechari for a randomly-chosen person?
2. What are the probable fruits of advanced kechari for a randomly-chosen person already enjoying considerable fruits of 'Advanced Yoga'?
3. What are the probable fruits of advanced kechari for a randomly-chosen person already enjoying considerable fruits of 'Advanced Yoga' and who feels very ready and motivated to do 'Advanced Kechari'.
It isn't practical to do all of the studies actually (you cannot randomly choose people and get them to do kechari!), but in principal, there are results for such studies. My reason for considering them is to expose some of the principles of 'applicability' and how it would affect results. My expectation is that as you go down the list, the probable yield gets considerably higher -- that is to say, if you are highly motivated for kechari, it might suggest better chances of good fruits from it.
Another interesting question is:
What are the probable fruits of advanced kechari for a randomly-chosen person, not already enjoying considerable fruits of 'Advanced Yoga' but who feels very ready and motivated to do 'Advanced Kechari'.
I can say I have no idea of the answer to that question. Maybe I'll have a better sense of the answer some time. I'd love to know the answer to it because then I could recommend kechari more generally.
I agree with you that kechari is not essential for enlightenment. I don't know, in fact, of anyone who believes it is. But it's another great tool in the toolbox, as a number of the yogis here will attest. In my case, it's been a real power-tool. But we aren't a sect of Kechari-ites or anything who think everyone has to be into kechari.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Jan 24 2008 10:01:57 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2008 : 06:45:21 AM
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Hi John,
quote:
Whatever. Who cares? Being advanced spiritually isn't quantifiable and it isn't a contest. Whether the ascetic, drunken upon the nectar of the divine in a cave is the most advanced woman on the planet or the Mother Theresa of Calcutta, totally committed in her devotion to suffering humanity, is more advanced,...who can say? Besides, who cares?
John
It was kind of a joke about the fourth group... based on the popular idea about enlightenment, that you just end up kind of permanently blissed out, seeing God everywhere, dispassionate, perfectly equanamous, and free from all desires. So you wouldn't want, or need to do very much, including turning a computer on or replying to an online questionare!
Actually it does have some relevance, and we should care a little, because it does seem to be a stage on the path that many go through, and that some get stuck in. The Buddha is said to have spent six weeks after his enlightenment simply "enjoying the peace of nirvana" sitting under his tree. It was only after that that he engaged with humanity again in order to be of service to suffering mankind. It was as if his bliss and peace expanded into compassion, and he went into service. This pattern seems to be fairly common, and some don't reach the service/ compassion stage. Yogani calls this variously the outpouring of divine love or stillness in action, and he says it comes after, and as a result of the ecstatic bliss stage. He wrote about the role of the saint after the involuted silent blissed out stage here in the forum once, but I can't find the post. Anyone?
As for doctors performing this (very minor) operation, I can't see any reason why many wouldn't be up for it. After all, there is such a thing as cosmetic surgery. This kind of thing is in fact a very minor operation, in quite an insensitive part of the mouth, and the potential benefits are incredible. Good for you for offering your services.
Christi |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Jan 25 2008 : 4:42:54 PM
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quote:
So we have heard from many people who have had very positive experiences at stage 2 or beyond stage 2.
I've been neglecting my kechari practice. When I got a note from John informing me of this survey, I decided to go into stage 2 kechari and wow, thanks the nudge John. Energetically, it is the greatest mudra I know; and from what Yogani says, it may be the greatest mudra period. Not only does it boost prana, it is a more balanced, steady, soft prana. I mean "soft" in the sense that people talk about soft light. It is not harsh. And it clearly gives a feeling of inner space, inner spaciousness, and a floaty feel, without being ungrounded.
I don't care for the word fantastic. Sounds too much like fantasy. I'd call it wonderful. |
Edited by - bewell on Jan 25 2008 4:59:54 PM |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jan 28 2008 : 3:25:31 PM
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It has been said that one needs ecstatic conductivity before kechari mudra is of any use.
I don't feel much EC, none most of the time. Recently I have had some energetics going on and felt the ecstacy at the soft pallet but now this is gone and don't have any expectations of much more going on.
I know the only way is to try it, and see what happens, but does anyone have any insight about the value for me before I start snipping in earnest?
Thanks |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2008 : 12:14:32 AM
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| Kechari is always useful and valuable. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2008 : 12:46:36 PM
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Hi Sparkle,
quote:
It has been said that one needs ecstatic conductivity before kechari mudra is of any use.
I don't feel much EC, none most of the time. Recently I have had some energetics going on and felt the ecstacy at the soft pallet but now this is gone and don't have any expectations of much more going on.
I know the only way is to try it, and see what happens, but does anyone have any insight about the value for me before I start snipping in earnest?
Thanks
Hi Louis,
This is a difficult question to answer, because kechari does 2 different things in the body. One is that it activates the “secret spot” which draws prana up from the root chakra in a very powerful way. The second thing is, as Kirtanman said, it closes an energy loop in the head.
As for the first: the “secret spot”. This only becomes active when ecstatic conductivity is present in the body. So how can you know if that is the case for you already? You do, because you reached it and felt the pleasurable sensations. For someone who has not already reached the secret spot, they could tell if the necessary conductivity is there because when they perform sambhavi mudra with the medula pull, it would activate sexual energy/ ecstasy in the root chakra. Another way of telling, is by performing spinal breathing pranayama without siddhasana, mulabhanda, asvini mudra, or sambhavi, and if it activates sexual energy/ecstasy anywhere in the body then ecstatic conductivity is present.
But these aren’t sure tests, as they are all intermittent. Neither sambhavi mudra nor spinal breathing on their own will always activate kundalini even in a body where ecstatic conductivity is present. The same goes for kechari stage 1. But if it works sometimes then that’s good enough!
As for the second: closing the energy loop in the head. What does this mean? Well here is my understanding. There is an energy channel going up the spine. Imagine that inside this channel is another one. And inside that another and inside that another. So a cross section would look like four concentric circles getting smaller towards the centre. Now, imagine one of them goes up the spine and out of the forehead (ajna chakra), Another goes up the spine and stops before the heart. Another goes up the spine and out of the top of the head (crown chakra). The last goes up the spine and out of the tongue. I listed them at random, not in the order that they lie in the spine.
Now it is easy to imagine what happens if the tongue is put up the nasal passage. The nadi that goes out of the tongue is lined up with the nadi that goes out of the crown... and “Hey presto”, welcome to the good life. I believe this is why Yogani says that “kechari is home for the advanced yogi or yogini”.
If ecstatic conductivity is present already (prana is flowing in sushumna) then we will “fly up” (or expand inwardly), which is what kechari means. If it isn’t already present, then it will still have a beneficial effect on the body because everyone experiences some flow of prana in the central channel, which varies depending on the pranic cycle throughout the day.
Christi
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Jan 31 2008 : 06:21:29 AM
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quote:
Scott said; Kechari is always useful and valuable.
Thanks for the encouragement Scott
Christi quote:
This is a difficult question to answer, because kechari does 2 different things in the body. One is that it activates the “secret spot” which draws prana up from the root chakra in a very powerful way.
Well that's a good enough reason for me to try it Christi.
I think there probably is conductivity going on but I just don't feel a lot of it. For example, I had an orgasm the other day and just felt a whoosh up the body, like fresh air - maybe I need a more active sex life or something, to get the homefires burning, then again maybe kechari will do the trick.
The other indicator I was thinking of was sidhassna, I use this most of the time and find it very valuable. It makes a difference even though I would often not feel conductivity.
I suppose it makes sence that if sidhassna works for me then possibly kechari will also.
quote:
Now it is easy to imagine what happens if the tongue is put up the nasal passage. The nadi that goes out of the tongue is lined up with the nadi that goes out of the crown... and “Hey presto”, welcome to the good life. I believe this is why Yogani says that “kechari is home for the advanced yogi or yogini”.
This might be a concern for me, in that I have been reluctant to do much with the crown. My crown is quite open and recently have been getting white gold light opening it up from above.
My present experience is with the earth energies predominating and want ot keep it like this for the foreseeable future anyway. The reason being that these earth energies are much more related to mindfulness and present moment living for me.
I am also motivated to do things effortlessly just by resting in these energies. Activating the light body from above has a totally different effect for me. Maybe the reason for this is that my early spiritual life was top of body light centred only with very little going on below.
Anyway I have decided to schedule another snip for later today - thanks for the feedback.
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Edited by - Sparkle on Jan 31 2008 06:23:53 AM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2008 : 11:46:25 AM
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Hi Louis,
quote:
The other indicator I was thinking of was sidhassna, I use this most of the time and find it very valuable. It makes a difference even though I would often not feel conductivity.
I deliberately didn't mention the practices of siddhasana, mula bandha and asvini mudra, as indicators of ecstatic conductivity being present. This is because they all work either directly on, or pretty close to the root and sacral chakras. It could therefor be confusing as they can activate sexual energy in the body even when ecstatic conductivity (kundalini) is not active. For the same reason I didn't mention sex as a way of telling if kundalini is active or not (after all, who doesn't feel ecstacy sometimes during sex). Personally I would use the upper end practices (kechari, sambhavi) and spinal breathing as more reliable indicators.
There are other indicators. The body starting to shake uncontrollably is one (especially during sex). Feeling rushes of energy up the spine, or up the centre of the body is another, especially as these rushes become more powerful (not just a "shiver up the spine").
quote:
This might be a concern for me, in that I have been reluctant to do much with the crown. My crown is quite open and recently have been getting white gold light opening it up from above.
My present experience is with the earth energies predominating and want ot keep it like this for the foreseeable future anyway. The reason being that these earth energies are much more related to mindfulness and present moment living for me.
I am also motivated to do things effortlessly just by resting in these energies. Activating the light body from above has a totally different effect for me. Maybe the reason for this is that my early spiritual life was top of body light centred only with very little going on below.
Kechari is a powerful spiritual practice, so you will have to pace it accordingly. I use it quite sparingly. It is good to be careful about the crown chakra, but also good not to fear it. As John C said in another thread "it is our destiny". The crown is also about mindfullness and present moment living.
Christi
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Feb 01 2008 : 12:22:46 PM
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| My theory is that snoring is caused by an energetic block at the base of the throat, so if my theory is right, this shouldn't affect it. FWIW... :) |
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khechari snip creates snoring?
