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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 29 2007 : 2:01:12 PM
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I have one concern with the move I've been suggesting to open throat chakra.
BKS Iyengar demands, with near-hysteria, that all pranayama be done in jalandhara bandha, in order to protect the heart from any strong energies that pop up. And opening the throat chakra, especially in a fast, powerful way, worries me a little because it could dump those energies one chakra down, at heart. Especially if someone were blocked at navel, I could see energy pooling at heart once it's been released from head.
Of course, energy passes through heart as it comes up the spine. But that's different. I can't explain it in words, but the fronts of the chakras are a different thing than the backs....speaking very physically about a not-physical thing. I intuit that kundalini passing chakras coming down front is wholly different than up back. Especially in heart.
Any Iyengarites (Victor?) out there who'd care to help brainstorm this issue? |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2007 : 6:11:36 PM
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Well in my experience the dynamic jalandhara feels much more soothing to the heart than a fixed jalandhara. You just might have to ask Iyengar about that one because after doing his style pranayama for decades the AYP style feels better to my nerves and creates less stress.
In my experience it feels that doing breath retentions with the head upright does indeed create quite a bit of strain in the upper chest and throat and heart region as well as pressure in the inner ears. The addition of Jalandhara allows one to rest the head rather than hold it upright, as well as creating a gentle stretch to the spine. In my practice previous to AYP I was experimenting with rolling the head to the left and to the right and even back in an intuitive discovery of the chin pump movements. That is what intruiged me so much about some of the AYP practices as they were exactly where my own practice was heading. Personally, I don't see any harm in keeping the head up as long as no breath is retained and like I said, for some reason it feels much better to have the head resting whether forward or back or rolling rather than held in a static position during breath retentions.
It is also possible that the difference between Iyengar pranayama and AYP may come from the addition of Kechari Mudra which does make the static Jalandhara feel less of a position of rest than the dynamic for me as there is a difference in the stretch and feeling in the throat area and correspondingly the heart area during Kechari. Not sure if this helps you, Jim but its all I can come up with at the moment not being very well versed in actual experience of chakras and so I don't want to explain beyond what I have actually felt during practice. |
Edited by - Victor on Dec 29 2007 7:27:14 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2007 : 11:33:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor
e after doing his style pranayama for decades the AYP style feels better to my nerves and creates less stress.
Agreed. As we've discussed before, I really don't like Iyengar pranayama for lots of reasons. I think fundamental problems in his paranayama teachings are what's behind the fact that so many Iyengar yogis tend to be peevish and high strung. Also, Iyengar is extremely against kundalini awakening. Even so much as mentioning the word "kundalini" in an Iyengar class taught by a senior teacher (one of the purists, not the mavericks) will earn a withering look. I tried to dialog with one of his 4 or 5 most senior teachers, someone I'd studied with, when my kundalini awakened, and about some overload issues, but this person refused to answer my emails, firing me off, finally, a salvo about how nobody's sure kundalini even exists. This person has been practicing for 35 years, and seems like a hornets' nest of irritability. So I won't get real far asking an Iyengar yogi about kundalini-level prana down the front. Mr. Iyengar prefers that his students lock all that away.
I'm just worried about helping people unblock their throat chakras if that could unleash a harmful quantity of energy to their hearts. I'm going to proceed cautiously, I think. And urge people not to do the throat dilation move for more than a few secs per day at first.
My front channel is opening like a torrent this week, with no discernible negative heart effects. I don't feel that there's heating from this energy as it goes down front. As Shanti (and I think EMC) said, it's more cooling. And that observation jibes with the Chinese model, which is that grounding (i.e. energy movement down the front) is cooling. So there may not be anything to worry about.... |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Dec 29 2007 11:34:37 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2007 : 05:27:51 AM
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Hi Jim,
quote:
Also, Iyengar is extremely against kundalini awakening. Even so much as mentioning the word "kundalini" in an Iyengar class taught by a senior teacher (one of the purists, not the mavericks) will earn a withering look.
It is possible that Iyengar has not awakened his kundalini yet. That was the impression that I got after reading his book: "A Light on Pranayama". I know many yoga teachers who do not have an awakened K, and some (like Iyengar) who still think it is purely metaphorical (and mythical).
Christi |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2007 : 08:00:10 AM
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Hi Christi,
I think you may have a point regarding Iyengars Kundalini.When I practised Tai Chi a frined of one of the other students practised Hatah Yoga.During asanas she expereinced tingling sensations and asked her teacher what it was.Unfortunately the 'teacher' had no idea and the student stopped her practices as she was understandably concerned.I think this may be more common than is realised but not having expereince of Hatha Yoga I am only using conjecture.
L&L
Dave |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2007 : 10:34:45 AM
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No, Iyengar knows all about kundalini and unquestionably has awakened his. You can read some clues in Light On Yoga, which was written a long time ago, before he taught widely.
It's extremely understandable, even admirable, that he has slapped safeguards on his system. Someone casually studying asanas for health reasons somewhere in suburbia does not have interest or wherewithal to accommodate a scary, sudden kundalini experience in their lives. Remember that he has millions of people practicing his system around the world, and feels responsible for their safety and experience. It's one thing for Yogani, teaching a system that is inherently self-directed and inherently leading a group of students who've deliberately sought this out, which leads toward such awakening, to offer kundalini awakening tools, and quite another for a teacher of suburban asana students to decline to take preventative steps for people who might blunder into it unknowingly. I wouldn't wish anyone to unknowingly blunder into such an experience, myself. Some might disagree, but, hey, there were people in the 60's who would covertly spike people's punch with acid in order to, like, share the expanded consciousness, man. They were deranged and irresponsible.
So while he taught siddasana as a crucial, vital pose in Light on Yoga, he no longer teaches it at all. He mentions kechari in LOY, but no longer does. And he's taken steps to try to stave off awakening in his followers. The alternative to preventatives would be to make Iyengar yoga explicitly about kundalini awakening (so there's no unknowing blundering), and building in systems to make it absolutely controllable. Problem is, such systems don't exist, the teachers (who aren't anonymous writers on the internet) would be held responsible (and expected to wisely council), students would be traumatized, and, besides, your average asana student doesn't WANT to necessarily merge with the eternal. They go to him for asana, and it's good to have somebody to go to for asana. Iyengar's attitude is that by getting millions and millions of people to at least do some basic asana work, massive preliminary purification is being done. And he's unquestionably right. It's good he's doing what he's doing as he's doing it, just as it's good Yogani's doing what he's doing as he's doing it. It's a different thing.
BUT....
what shocks me is that even his extreme inner circle - longtime yogis with lifelong commitments - has been kept in the dark. I belive this to be part of his rather explicitly outspoken view that westerners are "unspiritual'. That westerners make up the vast majority of his followers just feeds the many contradictions.
And, to bring this back to my point, I'm wondering if his protect-the-heart-via-jalandara-bandha credo is part of the preventative machinery, or is one of the overall errors of his pranayama, or if it's something we legitimately need to watch out for when a new technique arises for clearing pent-up blocks at throat chakra (one subway station away from heart). |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Dec 30 2007 12:14:37 PM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2007 : 1:14:22 PM
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Hi Jim,
And then we have Swami Ramdev who is promoting pranayama and Ayuverda for health reasons.
L&L
Dave |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2007 : 11:38:32 AM
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Hi Jim
quote:
No, Iyengar knows all about kundalini and unquestionably has awakened his. You can read some clues in Light On Yoga, which was written a long time ago, before he taught widely.
It would be very surprising if he was not kundalini awakened, given the popularity of the style of yoga he teaches. But it is equally surprising how he seems to have so little understanding of the process of kundalini, displayed in the "Light on Pranayama" book. I have not read Light on Yoga, so I will have to take your word for it.
quote:
It's extremely understandable, even admirable, that he has slapped safeguards on his system. Someone casually studying asanas for health reasons somewhere in suburbia does not have interest or wherewithal to accommodate a scary, sudden kundalini experience in their lives. Remember that he has millions of people practicing his system around the world, and feels responsible for their safety and experience. It's one thing for Yogani, teaching a system that is inherently self-directed and inherently leading a group of students who've deliberately sought this out, which leads toward such awakening, to offer kundalini awakening tools, and quite another for a teacher of suburban asana students to decline to take preventative steps for people who might blunder into it unknowingly. I wouldn't wish anyone to unknowingly blunder into such an experience, myself. Some might disagree, but, hey, there were people in the 60's who would covertly spike people's punch with acid in order to, like, share the expanded consciousness, man. They were deranged and irresponsible.
So while he taught siddasana as a crucial, vital pose in Light on Yoga, he no longer teaches it at all. He mentions kechari in LOY, but no longer does. And he's taken steps to try to stave off awakening in his followers. The alternative to preventatives would be to make Iyengar yoga explicitly about kundalini awakening (so there's no unknowing blundering), and building in systems to make it absolutely controllable. Problem is, such systems don't exist, the teachers (who aren't anonymous writers on the internet) would be held responsible (and expected to wisely council), students would be traumatized, and, besides, your average asana student doesn't WANT to necessarily merge with the eternal. They go to him for asana, and it's good to have somebody to go to for asana. Iyengar's attitude is that by getting millions and millions of people to at least do some basic asana work, massive preliminary purification is being done. And he's unquestionably right. It's good he's doing what he's doing as he's doing it, just as it's good Yogani's doing what he's doing as he's doing it. It's a different thing.
I don’t quite understand. Are you suggesting that Iyengar is kundalini awakened, but that he doesn’t admit it, that he pretends that the whole thing doesn’t exist, and even goes as far as stating in the "Light on Pranayama" that the kundalini awakening process is metaphorical, whilst knowing this to be a falsehood? And that he has millions of students worldwide who are following his system of yoga, but he is desperately hoping that they won’t experience an awakening because he knows that they wouldn’t be able to handle it, and that if they do experience an awakening he just denies the whole thing and pretends it’s got nothing to do with yoga? I have to confess I can’t quite believe this is true. It doesn't seem like the sort of thing a yoga teacher would do.
The other reason it doesn't make any sense is that one doesn't need to practice siddhasana and perform kechari mudra to awaken the kundalini. A serious asana routine, combined with the pranayama techniques described in Iyengar's book would be more than enough to do the job.
So if he is kundalini awakened and has worked with the energy seriously for a while, he must know that people in Iyengar yoga classes are going to become awakened.
quote:
what shocks me is that even his extreme inner circle - longtime yogis with lifelong commitments - has been kept in the dark. I belive this to be part of his rather explicitly outspoken view that westerners are "unspiritual'. That westerners make up the vast majority of his followers just feeds the many contradictions.
Do you mean that the inner circle are being kept in the dark about the fact that kundalini is real and can awaken through the practice of asanas and pranayama?
quote:
BKS Iyengar demands, with near-hysteria, that all pranayama be done in jalandhara bandha, in order to protect the heart from any strong energies that pop up.
As regards his advice about jalandhara bandha, personally I think it is highly questionable. Mulabandha and udyanabandha stop the apana vayu from falling whilst jalandhara bandha stops the prana from rising creating a build up of prana in the torso region. This means a lot of energy is building up around the heart area. So if someone had a weak heart, and they were concerned about the effect of pranayama on the heart then jalandhara bandha would be one to avoid.
But I don't believe it is a major concern. If someone was really concerned about a weak heart then avoiding pranayama altogether, or only doing gentle pranayama would be the answer.
Christi
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2007 : 1:18:42 PM
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quote:
Jim wrote:
I tried to dialog with one of his 4 or 5 most senior teachers, someone I'd studied with, when my kundalini awakened, and about some overload issues, but this person refused to answer my emails, firing me off, finally, a salvo about how nobody's sure kundalini even exists.
Interesting.
Personally, Iyengar is not very useful to me and I don't hold him up as the last word on anything.
Didn't say that right. What I mean is expressed better in my next post, perhaps. Iyengar has his system and other yogis have there systems. What is Iyengar trying to achieve for his students, anyways? What is the goal of an Iyengar practitioner? I don't know. Jim?
At the same time, I still have a lot of respect for him and his dedication. He has made a huge contribution.
quote:
Christi wrote:
A serious asana routine, combined with the pranayama techniques described in Iyengar's book would be more than enough to do the job.
Hey, you don't even need that. Nice post, Christi.
You guys might be interested in Yoga and Health by Yesudian and Haich.
It is the best book ever written on the subject and truly captures the spirit of what hatha yoga actually is. No other book does this. They are very sterile, relatively speaking (imho  of course). But if you read it you will understand why I have this opinion. |
Edited by - yogibear on Dec 31 2007 7:06:35 PM |
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kadak
79 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2007 : 1:28:11 PM
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Very interesting topic !
In fact, since several months, I feel strong pranic surges in the heart area, especially when I fall asleep. The result was faster heartbeat, and I can say that it is not very agreable to be in his bed with the heart pulsing at 80/90 when it should be around 50. Of course, this worried me much - additionnal worry resulting in increased heartbeat of course. A vicious circle. And more, I was afraid that pranic surges, which are of electrical nature, may affect the electrical conditionning of the heart, which could cause arythmia... this idea came to me after I noticed several extra-systoles after sudden physical efforts.
Anyway, that's why I resumed my bike training. Regular training makes the heart very strong. And my idea was that if the heart is used to work with strong eletrical impulses (close to anaerobia threshold), it could no more be affected by pranic surges. In fact the extra-systoles disappeared and I'm more at ease with my nightly episodes.
During practice, I noticed that sometimes, with no apparent reason, heartbeat was increased during khumbaka with a feeling of pressure on the heart, so I did it with jalandhara and the problem disappeared. So yes, I agree very much with Yengar. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2007 : 5:34:45 PM
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The following quotes are from Bruce Lee and can be applied to almost any field, including yoga, altho he is talking about his own martial art which he considered a vehicle for spiritual growth.
It is an open system like AYP. Just replace the words JKD, martial art, fighting style, sparring, etc. with yoga and yoga practice.
The last quote might appeal to the no ego afficianados.
To reach the masses, some sort of big organization (whether) domestic and foreign branch affiliation, is not necessary. To reach the growing number of students, some sort of pre-conformed set must be established as standards for the branch to follow. As a result all members will be conditioned according to the prescribed system. Many will probably end up as a prisoner of a systematized drill.
Styles tend to not only separate men - because they have their own doctrines and then the doctrine became the gospel truth that you cannot change. But if you do not have a style, if you just say: Well, here I am as a human being, how can I express myself totally and completely? Now, that way you won't create a style, because style is a crystallization. That way, it's a process of continuing growth.
To me totality is very important in sparring. Many styles claim this totality. They say that they can cope with all types of attacks; that their structures cover all the possible lines and angles, and are capable of retaliation from all angles and lines. If this is true, then how did all the different styles come about? If they are in totality, why do some use only the straight lines, others the round lines, some only kicks, and why do still others who want to be different just flap and flick their hands? To me a system that clings to one small aspect of combat is actually in bondage.
This statement expresses my feelings perfectly:
'In memory of a once fluid man, crammed and distorted by the classical mess.'
Too much horsing around with unrealistic stances and classic forms and rituals is just too artificial and mechanical, and doesn't really prepare the student for actual combat. A guy could get clobbered while getting into this classical mess. Classical methods like these, which I consider a form of paralysis, only solidify and constrain what was once fluid. Their practitioners are merely blindly rehearsing routines and stunts that will lead nowhere.
I believe that the only way to teach anyone proper self-defence is to approach each individual personally. Each one of us is different and each one of us should be taught the correct form. By correct form I mean the most useful techniques the person is inclined toward. Find his ability and then develop these techniques. I don't think it is important whether a side kick is performed with the heel higher than the toes, as long as the fundamental principle is not violated. Most classical martial arts training is a mere imitative repetition - a product - and individuality is lost.
When one has reached maturity in the art, one will have a formless form. It is like ice dissolving in water. When one has no form, one can be all forms; when one has no style, he can fit in with any style.
In JKD (his martial art), one does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity.
Before I studied the art, a punch to me was just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. After I learned the art, a punch was no longer a punch, a kick no longer a kick. Now that I've understood the art, a punch is just like a punch, a kick just like a kick. The height of cultivation is really nothing special. It is merely simplicity; the ability to express the utmost with the minimum. It is the halfway cultivation that leads to ornamentation. Jeet Kune-Do is basically a sophisticated fighting style stripped to its essentials.
Art is the expression of the self. The more complicated and restricted the method, the less the opportunity for expression of one's original sense of freedom. Though they play an important role in the early stage, the techniques should not be too mechanical, complex or restrictive. If we cling blindly to them, we shall eventually become bound by their limitations. Remember, you are expressing the techniques and not doing the techniques. If somebody attacks you, your response is not Technique No.1, Stance No. 2, Section 4, Paragraph 5. Instead you simply move in like sound and echo, without any deliberation. It is as though when I call you, you answer me, or when I throw you something, you catch it. It's as simple as that - no fuss, no mess. In other words, when someone grabs you, punch him. To me a lot of this fancy stuff is not functional.
A martial artist who drills exclusively to a set pattern of combat is losing his freedom. He is actually becoming a slave to a choice pattern and feels that the pattern is the real thing. It leads to stagnation because the way of combat is never based on personal choice and fancies, but constantly changes from moment to moment, and the disappointed combatant will soon find out that his 'choice routine' lacks pliability. There must be a 'being' instead of a 'doing' in training. One must be free. Instead of complexity of form, there should be simplicity of expression.
To me, the extraordinary aspect of martial arts lies in its simplicity. The easy way is also the right way, and martial arts is nothing at all special; the closer to the true way of martial arts, the less wastage of expression there is.
In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject. Actually, he keeps chiselling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Thus, contrary to other styles, being wise in Jeet Kune-Do doesn't mean adding more; it means to minimize, in other words to hack away the unessential.
It is not daily increase but daily decrease; hack away the unessential.
In primary freedom, one utilizes all ways and is bound by none, and likewise uses any techniques or means which serves one's end. Efficiency is anything that scores.
Efficiency in sparring and fighting is not a matter of correct classical, traditional form. Efficiency is anything that scores. Creating fancy forms and classical sets to replace sparring is like trying to wrap and tie a pound of water into a manageable shape of paper sack. For something that is static, fixed, dead, there can be a way or a definite path; but not for anything that is moving and living. In sparring there's no exact path or method, but instead a perceptive, pliable, choice-less awareness. It lives from moment to moment.
When in actual combat, you're not fighting a corpse. Your opponent is a living, moving object who is not in a fixed position, but fluid and alive. Deal with him realistically, not as though you're fighting a robot. Traditionally, classical form and efficiency are both equally important. I'm not saying form is not important - economy of form that is - but to me, efficiency is anything that scores. Don't indulge in any unnecessary, sophisticated moves.
Any technique, however worthy and desirable, becomes a disease when the mind is obsessed with it.
Do not be tense, just be ready, not thinking but not dreaming, not being set but being flexible. It is being "wholly" and quietly alive, aware and alert, ready for whatever may come.
Question: What are your thoughts when facing an opponent?
Bruce: There is no opponent.
Question: Why is that?
Bruce: Because the word 'I' does not exist.
A good fight should be like a small play...but played seriously. When the opponent expands, I contract. When he contracts, I expand. And when there is an opportunity... I do not hit...it hits all by itself.
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Edited by - yogibear on Dec 31 2007 7:19:45 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2008 : 08:44:25 AM
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Hi Kadak
quote:
During practice, I noticed that sometimes, with no apparent reason, heartbeat was increased during khumbaka with a feeling of pressure on the heart, so I did it with jalandhara and the problem disappeared. So yes, I agree very much with Yengar.
Actually, Yogani also says that jalandhara bandha should always be held whilst practicing khumbaka.
Fluctuations in heart rate are normal when the heart chakra is opening. Often the heart can be racing for long periods even whilst the body is completely inactive. But this doesn't mean that you are just about to keel over and die. I never heard of anyone who died from an overactive heart chakra.
Christi
Oh, apart from Babaji.
http://www.geocities.com/saint7peter/babaji.gif |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2008 : 09:25:25 AM
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| Christi, I don't think anyone in this thread or anywhere else is suggesting that opening the heart too much is bad. That's not the issue. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2008 : 12:11:44 PM
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Here is a different perspective on the chakras from Sexual Energy and Yoga by Elisabeth Haich:
Is there an apprataus in men where the vibrations, the frequencies of the energies can be transformed and changed into different forms of manifestations? Yes. There are several. They are the chakras whiich which not only send out rays, but also function as transformers. We know this however, only with our intellect. If I use the nerve centres, the seat of the chakras, I experience the various vibrations not as 'vibration' or 'frequency', but directly as conscious states of being. I take as an example the ears, that is to say, the auditory nerves which receive all the vibrations of sound nad impart these to my consciousness. Although I have learned with my intellect that the sounds are vibrations and that the different sounds have different frequencies, my conscious ness will not perceive them as different vibrations, but I shall hear them quite simply as different sounds. I shall be unable to notice the number of vibrations, more or less, of one sound compared with another, but, I shall hear them as lower- and higher-pitched sounds.
So it is with creative power. In its lower vibrations I shall be unable to notice how they vibrate, but rather I shall feel and notice them in my body as sexual urge. In its higher vibrations - in my soul - I shall feel them as love, as the spiritual urge for unity. Even higher, as the urge for creative manifestation, as natural talents, as intuition and creative ideas. In their very highest frequencies, I shall be them, as a purely spiritual state of being - as I AM.
Just as the ears and auditory nerves enable me to hear sounds, so that I am aware of the sounds but not the ears and auditory nerves, so I am aware of creative power with the various organs of manifestation and the chakras as the sexual urge, as feelings and as direct states of being. I feel the activation of the higher nerve and brain centres only to the extent that I suddenly become intuitive, that I have creative ideas and an inclination for creative work, that unsuspected talents come to light, that there is a remarkable increase in my will-power and power of concentration, that I become self-assured and I notice by my effect on other people that I have acquired suggestive powers and as a result have become that centre of attention.
Therefore I must not expect that the chakras and their seat, the higher nerve and brain centres, announce themselves by any kind of feelings or other signs, when they go into action. I notice the ears, auditory nerves and other sense organs, as also the higher nerve and brain centres and the chakras, only if they are not quite in order and perhaps cause pain. As long as they function healthily I am not aware of their existence.
I shall be as unable to gauge the frequency differences as - to remain with our example - the ears are to gauge the vibration differences of sounds; they transmit them to my consciousness as lower or higher pitched sounds, which I simply hear.
It is only as various states of consciousness that I can feel directly, experience, or in the highest form, become identical with the various frequencey differences of the various forms of creative power. And if I call these forms of manifestation lower or higher, I do so for the same reason that I call a sound lower or higher because I hear it like that - lower or higher! If we explain what a sound is, then we can give as detailed a description as possible of the vibrations and frequencies of sounds, and yet we shall be totally unable to make a creature that has no ears understand how we hear a sound, or indeed, what it even means to hear. I should be still less able to explain that a sound may be 'lower' or 'higher', and least of all what the difference in sound is, for instance, of a flute, a violin or an organ. If this creature once tried to hear - and managed to do so - then it would hear from personal experience, instantaneously, directly and without need of further explanantion....
As long as we do not make the effort, we shall never be able to understand the nature of the bliss, fulfilment, and absolute contentment and self-confidence which we experience as a conscious state of being if we have become able to transform creative power from its sexual form into its higher form, and can say, I am it.
Best, yb. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2008 : 12:34:30 PM
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Hi Jim
quote:
Christi, I don't think anyone in this thread or anywhere else is suggesting that opening the heart too much is bad. That's not the issue.
It was you Jim, who brought it up, right in the first post in this thread, here:
quote:
I have one concern with the move I've been suggesting to open throat chakra.
BKS Iyengar demands, with near-hysteria, that all pranayama be done in jalandhara bandha, in order to protect the heart from any strong energies that pop up. And opening the throat chakra, especially in a fast, powerful way, worries me a little because it could dump those energies one chakra down, at heart. Especially if someone were blocked at navel, I could see energy pooling at heart once it's been released from head.
You nearly had me going there! Nice try. 
Christi |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2008 : 8:22:35 PM
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Christi, the concern is about the direction of a sudden flow of massive energy to the heart, and whether that might be harmful to the organ. The chakra is not the organ and the organ is not the chakra. And, beyond that, the issue is with over-energization, not with chakra opening. Merely zapping a location with energy is not equivalent to an opening, nor is the prudent pacing of energy flow equivalent to a refusal to open. And, in any case, the credo of AYP is self-pacing. We don't shoot energy around willy nilly. We are prudent with all issues of increased flow.
There is no one, in this thread, or elsewhere in the world that I know of, who would discourage opening of the heart chakra. You are on another track entirely from what I'm saying and from what I'm interpreting Iyengar to be teaching (I am not, in any case, his spokesman, just a long-time student). |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2008 : 05:01:10 AM
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Hi Jim,
quote:
Christi, the concern is about the direction of a sudden flow of massive energy to the heart, and whether that might be harmful to the organ. The chakra is not the organ and the organ is not the chakra. And, beyond that, the issue is with over-energization, not with chakra opening. Merely zapping a location with energy is not equivalent to an opening, nor is the prudent pacing of energy flow equivalent to a refusal to open. And, in any case, the credo of AYP is self-pacing. We don't shoot energy around willy nilly. We are prudent with all issues of increased flow.
There is no one, in this thread, or elsewhere in the world that I know of, who would discourage opening of the heart chakra. You are on another track entirely from what I'm saying and from what I'm interpreting Iyengar to be teaching (I am not, in any case, his spokesman, just a long-time student).
I wasn't sugesting that anyone do anything of the sort, either shoot energy around willy-nilly, or refrain from opening their hearts.
Please forgive me if there is any confusion, but I really don't think there is. You see, the heart chakra acts as a kind of transformer, regulating energy flow between the pranic universe and the physical universe. The physical heart is one of the main organs influenced by the heart chakra. So any damage done to the physical organ, through a large movement of prana, is most likely to happen through the heart chakra, due to the effect of the energy on that chakra. If the chakra opens a lot (due to a large flow of prana in that area) it can put a lot of strain on the physical organ.
I believe that this is what Iyengar is concerned about, and as I said above I believe his concerns to be unfounded.
Just for the record, I agree with you entirely about avoiding large movements of energy, and for that reason I think it advisable not to tinker around too much, especially when we are just beginning to understand how this energy works.
Christi |
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Protecting the heart with jaladhara bandha
