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Gnosis
USA
68 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 11 2008 : 05:24:13 AM
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The main problem is not eating meat, but factory farming. Just because you are going to eat the animal, doesn't mean you have to abuse it. Most religions that okay the eating of meat usually have laws about animal treatment.
The best method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness. This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within two seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible.
Unfortunately this is not how animals are killed today. Not to mention their living conditions are ridiculous. I drink milk but only from select brands like Clover Stornetta, which won a humane animal award. Straus milk also treats their cows quite well, organic is essential. Conventional milk is just as bad a meat imo, as far as the treatment of the animal is concerned. When I am not at home, I eat vegan, because most vegetarian places use conventional dairy.
Animals may not be able to reason or talk, but they can suffer. As far as pollution farms like Straus have methane digestion that use the manure to make electricity http://www.suscon.org/dairies/methanedigesters.asp
I think ethical and enviornmentally sustainable agriculture and livestock is better for us, the earth, and the animals. A trifecta of good karma! |
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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Jan 24 2008 : 9:36:22 PM
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Hi Meg,
thanks for your post!
I've been vegetarian this time around for about 3 years ( was a vegan from age 14 until late 20's, ate meat for about 10 years, then went back veg)and VERY committed to it.... I woke up one morning, 3 years back and couldn't even think of eating meat or fish or having any kind of chemicals on my skin, in my house, through out all my make-up and hair shampoos etc.,... it was intense..... anyway...
So, it was a shock when a few months ago I started getting cravings for meat! I basically ignored them until yesterday and then I told my husband, interesting that this post came to my attention tonight, as I just had my first non-veg meal in 3 years .. and I was feeling guiltly, because like everyone here I love animals,birds, fish but my body has been begging for it.
I feel my body has a wisdom so I am following it's needs (-craving lamb bones???). So, I have been doing research on the web about grass fed sheep and cows that at least have a happy life.... munching away on green hillsides:-)and at least saying a prayer of thanks to the creature for giving it's life to sustain me....
So, what I want to say is I could relate to you Meg...
I remember though when I first got shakipat (9 years back - which was during my meat eating phase) my experiences where amazingly deep and are carved into my consciousness, and eating meat didn't stop them at all....actually I was on fire for a few years there...
So.... that's been my experience with it.... it's all what it's in your heart, I suppose... I need to come to terms though with the change a bit but I'm encouraging myself to accept and embrace this new space I find myself.
Thanks for reading:-)
Love and light,
Babaly
quote:
Originally posted by meg
Here's another take on the meat issue. I've a dark confession to make. After 23 years of vegetarianism, I'm now a carnivore.  I can't say for sure why I returned to the dark side, but I attribute it to a huge life change in the past year, loads of stress, and the need for more protein in my diet. A gal can eat just so many beans. It started as a harmless, organic chicken breast from Whole Foods, and 9 months later I'll eat just about anything with legs. It's somewhat humbling, since I was such a devout vegetarian, and in retrospect, a bit egotistical about it; as if it somehow made me a wee bit better than a carnivore.
The reason that I originally stopped eating meat was because it made me really sick the way animals are so inhumanely treated - as no more than objects for our consumption. I still feel this way. It grieves me. I could go on & on. But what I found is that I no longer had sufficient conviction to continue in my personal protest against it, and I saw that my not eating meat had made not a whit of difference for 23 years.
As for the ramifications to my body & meditation: I'm not in a flowering moment in my meditation, but until recently it was going well. To the extent that any meditation can be labeled 'good' or 'bad', that is. It felt very rich, and my heart chakra is as wide as it's ever been, sometimes to the point of being slightly painful. So John, I have to respectfully disagree with you that the eating of meat leads to a constriction of the heart, at least as a general rule. As far as my body goes, I feel very strong & healthy. I have more energy than people half my age (I'm 46), and in general I feel healthier than I did over the past few years. I've read that some women need to eat more meat as they age. I definitely crave it.
As far as guilt - I do feel guilty about eating meat, but it's not crippling guilt. I feel far more guilty when I see a young mother slap her kids on the subway - shouldn't I be doing something about that? Or pass a guy on the sidewalk who's out of his mind & filthy & begging for change. What's my quarter going to do for him? Where, when do we stop feeling guilty? When do we embrace what IS? But that's another subject...
Last paragraph, I promise. I still feel pretty rotten about the killing of animals. I still embrace vegetarianism. If I needed a justification for eating meat, I'd be hard-pressed to come up with one. I simply haven't been able to summon the wherewithal to stop eating it. My eyes are starting to open up to the unity in everything; how everything is amazingly connected, and although I'd never say that eating meat was the cause of it, it certainly hasn't prevented it.
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2008 : 10:17:25 AM
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| Babaly - You might be interested in reading "In Defense of Food" and "The Omnivore's Dilemma", both by Michael Pollan. Very informative for anyone who wants to eat meat healthfully, responsibly, & ethically. It's great that you're listening to your body's needs, rather than clinging to a decision made years ago. I think it's important to examine one's lifestyle & beliefs periodically, even (especially!) the most cherished ones. |
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yogibear
409 Posts |
Posted - Feb 17 2008 : 07:04:28 AM
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Hi Babaly,
I second Meg's recommendation of The Omnivore's Dilemma. Very informative regarding the current state of affairs in our country. And the solution to it in this regard.
I eat alot of wild caught salmon and free range chicken and have never felt better. I have 2 big salads per day consisting of mainly kale and romaine with olive/sesame oil, salt and pepper.
And homemade liver/heart sausage from pure grass fed beef cattle for breakfast.
I don't lose any sleep over it.
I have a hard time consuming anything from the store, tho. I just think of how it is produced. Yech!
When I was 18, I ate nothing but milk ghee, raw honey, rice, whole wheat, vegetables and fruit. If I did that now, I would feel sick and have health problems.
My body is different now. What can I say?
"To change with change is the changeless state. Using no way as way. Having no limitation as limitation."
Bruce Lee.
Just some more thoughts on the topic.
Best, yb. |
Edited by - yogibear on Feb 17 2008 07:08:48 AM |
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Babaly
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - Mar 02 2008 : 9:11:17 PM
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Thanks Meg,
I appreciate your support. Since I've been an "omnivore" for the last month or so, I have been feeling better and hope to continue to feel better and better:-)
Thanks Meg & Yogibear, I'll go get that book and read it.
I have been talking with farmers online re: their grass fed lamb and beef and will be ordering from them soon.
Love and light,
Babaly |
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 3:04:06 PM
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Followup on meat and vegetables:
When I started daily meditation 9 years ago, and then began to perceive the prana/kundalini flow within conscious awareness, back then, I found that when I ate meat it caused an emotional response of sadness or of panic and agitation notable in my meditations, and there was a noticable suppression of the prana flow of kundalini for a day or so. And so, I decided then to go vegetarian, because I did not like those things to happen. Then periodically since then, we tried a chicken dinner now and then, and nowadays, there is no sadness nor agitation, but just a shut down in the prana. And we have just gotten used to vegetarianism because of ecological issues. But then three weeks ago, I said, "Hey, lets go get a cobb salad with chicken. And we did that at a restaurant. And that night I was sitting and meditating, and I had forgotten about what we had for dinner, but I noticed how the kundalini/prana was not flowing at all, not even a little. That's very unusual for me. And then I remembered we had split that chicken breast on our salad, and realized all over again why I was feeling no energy flow. But it was OK, what ever happens or doesn't happen is OK. It becomes a teachable moment not to have any energy flow, and re-experience what things used to be like, and to realize that it doesn't really matter whether we can perceive the kundalini or not. It's there resting at muladhara then I suppose. I know that tomorrow, I will notice it again.
And so, I understand most people are omnivores, and that's OK with me. It doesn't make any difference. But on the other hand, there may be a price to pay, for some of us, for what we eat,..for what we choose to consume for our source of food energy, in some way or another. As we quiet down and listen to.... |
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 3:30:47 PM
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Hi John,
Interesting observation. In my own experience, I don't eat red meat so I have no observation there ... but I do eat plain roasted chicken breast at times. In those cases, I have noticed no decrease in prana or kundalini flow so it does vary from person to person.
A number of years ago when my girlfriend had a severe digestive disorder that was not being helped through traditional medicine, we began working closely with an individual schooled in nutrition, digestive disorders and knowledgeable in metabolic subtyping. From that experience, it became very clear to me that different persons, people with different constitutions, do react differently to different kinds of diets. One size does not fit all, even for spiritual aspirants. As one progresses along with yoga, things can and do change but still each has a diet that is best for themselves, not only with food selection but with amounts and frequency ie. how many times they eat per day and I would imagine also in how their kundalini and pranas flow in relation to their diet.
One person's chicken and broccoli is another's 'nuts and sprouted alfalfa'. As you said, it's best to quiet down and listen to what our body is telling us about our individual needs.
Love and Light,
Steve |
Edited by - Steve on Apr 22 2008 3:36:09 PM |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 3:35:14 PM
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quote:
John wrote: And that night I was sitting and meditating, and I had forgotten about what we had for dinner, but I noticed how the kundalini/prana was not flowing at all, not even a little. That's very unusual for me. And then I remembered we had split that chicken breast on our salad, and realized all over again why I was feeling no energy flow. But it was OK, what ever happens or doesn't happen is OK. It becomes a teachable moment not to have any energy flow, and re-experience what things used to be like, and to realize that it doesn't really matter whether we can perceive the kundalini or not. It's there resting at muladhara then I suppose. I know that tomorrow, I will notice it again.
Hi John:
For those who have kundalini energy overloads, this is why a temporary heavier diet may be utilized, along with other means. It is part of self-pacing and grounding.
Of course, it works the other way too, as you are pointing out. That is why the main AYP diet suggestion is "light and nutritious" ... except when we need to be going the other way. 
The guru is in you.
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x.j.
304 Posts |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 8:25:03 PM
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Hi Steve and Yogani,
Thanks for your thoughtful replies. The importance of what we eat, is an interesting mystery. Then there's the great Patanjali and his admonitions about the essential importance of diet.
So, as spiritual scientists, we each explore how our own bodies and energies respond to different foods and draw our own personal conclusions if we are "K actives" already, and can observe these effects directly within our meditations and as a result of our meditation. And so we have folks like Steve who can eat anything without any diminishment in his kundalini because he is so wide open.
But I am more interested in reaching out to those readers who do not yet experience (much or any whatsoever) kundalini flow, with these observations, because unless your kundalini is active, you don't know what might be holding you back. And so I advise personal investigation. If a person is not active yet with the kundalini prana flows even though they are doing the very effective AYP program for a year, maybe they need to address the question as to why that is , and the WHY may be due to eating too heavy a diet, in other words, a meat diet,...and just by going vegetable for a month they could--just possibly--open like a flower bud, just about ready, but needing just that little boost to finally spring open. Happy spring! |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Apr 22 2008 : 11:53:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Steve to John
One person's chicken and broccoli is another's 'nuts and sprouted alfalfa'. As you said, it's best to quiet down and listen to what our body is telling us about our individual needs.
Hi Steve and John:
That sums up the diet section of the "Diet, Shatkarmas and Amaroli" book -- in a nutshell, of course. 
Bon appetite!
The guru is in you.
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Steve
277 Posts |
Posted - Apr 23 2008 : 10:09:13 AM
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Hi John, quote:
And so we have folks like Steve who can eat anything without any diminishment in his kundalini because he is so wide open.
Ha! Ha!  good joke, I wish that was the reason ... would be nice  ... but alas there is much room for more opening before one could classify it as 'so wide open'.
Honestly, John, that was not the correlation I was making. I am not discounting that how open one's energy system is plays a part in the effect that different foods have on oneself. The bigger point I was making was that individually our constitutions vary even among spiritual aspirants. I have friends who are much more open than myself energetically, kundalini and heart wise. I am thinking of one in particular who definitely does better with some meat in her diet. The meat she eats provides her with necessary strength and sustenance that a purely vegetarian diet does not. I have been with her at extended retreats where no meat or chicken was allowed and she has a very difficult time getting through them becoming very weak and tired.
Also, there are some foods that I only do best with in moderation like nuts and cheese. On the other hand, in addition to a simply prepared chicken breast (organic preferred), vegetables, fruits, whole grains are great for me. I make the most adventuresome and delicious salads. And if truth be told, I love chocolate pudding. There it is, my secret's out. My new soon-to-be written book 'Chocolate Pudding, Eating Your Way to Happiness and Bliss'  will detail the specifics. For me, eating one meal a day in the evening works best. The rest of the day I just drink water. So, like yourself, I too, have things that work in different ways. It can vary and is individual.
Your point about advising those whose kundalini is not yet active or energy systems very open with particular dietary guidelines regarding the effects of different foods is wonderful. All help that can be provided to any of us in that regard is great. For sure, your observation regarding chicken, highlights the effect so that others can see if something similar occurs for them. Even if a person's kundalini and energy system is not so open, they may have other indications like how tired they are before and after eating ... how light they feel etc. which can provide feedback to them on the effects of different foods.
The alternatives you suggest for personal investigation are very helpful. The more aware we are of diet and the possible effects different diets can have, the better opportunity we have to learn what works best.
Love and Light ,
Steve
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Edited by - Steve on Apr 24 2008 09:35:23 AM |
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The karmic price of meat
