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Christi

United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - Apr 29 2008 :  2:44:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Well, I don't think he is a serious investigator of the supernatural either. I'm not sure he claims to be. He's a serious debunker. Again, whether you think he is good or bad depends on what you think of the underlying movement, beliefs and values. And I think your own mind is just as made-up on the matter as his is.


Hi David
I donít think Randiís mind is made up at all. I donít see how it can be. If he is a rational man, and he goes to very great lengths to make people believe that he is, he must realize that, on the question of whether or not there are humans who possess supernatural powers, he simply doesnít have the evidence to make a decision one way or the other. He does not himself possess such powers, he has not been presented with evidence that would prove to him the existence of such powers, and he has not seen any evidence to suppose that nobody on earth possesses such powers.

Making a statement such as ďI have not yet seen a black swan, therefore black swans do not existĒ would be quite irrational, and presumably someone as super-rational as Randi would never do such a thing. He must realize that he is in a position of pure ignorance, and will remain in that state until he has any evidence to make a decision about such things one way or another. He may claim publicly that this is not the case, but he must know in his heart that it is.

As for myself, my mind is always changing according to the nature of mind. It is never fixed on one thing, even for an instant, and it has no relationship to me at all, no more than my car, my life or my dream.

Christi

ďA stuck mind is the only death- death by tortureĒ. Byron Katie
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david_obsidian

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - Apr 29 2008 :  5:54:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
I feel a faint impulse to defend Randi a little more here. But then I decided, heck, is he going to pay me to do it? I've done enough and until he shows up and cuts me a check, I'm going to have to let it slide. That's me being rational.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - Apr 30 2008 :  1:46:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
I feel a faint impulse to defend Randi a little more here. But then I decided, heck, is he going to pay me to do it? I've done enough and until he shows up and cuts me a check, I'm going to have to let it slide. That's me being rational.


Very rational.
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gumpi

United Kingdom
546 Posts

Posted - Oct 06 2008 :  2:17:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit gumpi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
This thread seems to have died off. I want to resurrect it.

About Randi, i don't think you understand the words being used here. The quote from the newspaper man or website proved that Randi was inadequately quoted and it was out of context.

There are so many things i could say about this but the bottom line is that there is no reason why Randi has never proved a psychic ability or paranormal miraculous feat when there are so many people on this planet. Do you really believe that a person with "siddhis" wouldn't take this test? Everyone is different. You seem to be speaking only for yourself when you assume that every single person with siddhis wouldn't take this challenge.

And the posts about Sai Baba and other "magicians" was completely ignored.

Paramahansa Yogananda used parlor tricks. I know this for a fact because i know someone that lived with him and is still alive. Aside from this the "tricks" Yogananda used at his early lectures are classical magic tricks. Why would people considered to be "avatars" need to do magic tricks?

I happen to think that having visions and so on is not really much of anything but dream states. The rest is hypnosis and the placebo effect, especially in physical healing.

Let me ask you something, if someone offered you a billion dollars to prove you could do something supernatural, why wouldn't you agree? Saying that the clause in the Randi test states that the person must agree to declare their failure is actually very scientific indeed! Randi has been doing all this for decades and has never found anything. In fact, a documentary just went out on UK TV involving a psychic "baby mind reader" being tested by Randi and he failed, but he insists that his ability is real. He agreed to the test and he failed.

Nobody can live off of light. Light is all kinds of things, gas, nuclear, electricity, magnetism. But life on earth is a load of things coming together as a product of light, and it is the combination of things concentrated to one goal or point that makes life appear on earth, it is a combination of all other elements. So oxygen, for example, is not the same thing as light, but it is neccesary for the body to survive. ANd oxygen comes from plants, which get their sustenance from light. Bypassing oxygen to live off of light is simply just a delusion in thought.

I am sorry this sounds so negative, but i don't really know how else to put it.
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Christi

United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - Oct 07 2008 :  4:20:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Gumpi,

quote:
Nobody can live off of light. Light is all kinds of things, gas, nuclear, electricity, magnetism. But life on earth is a load of things coming together as a product of light, and it is the combination of things concentrated to one goal or point that makes life appear on earth, it is a combination of all other elements. So oxygen, for example, is not the same thing as light, but it is neccesary for the body to survive. ANd oxygen comes from plants, which get their sustenance from light. Bypassing oxygen to live off of light is simply just a delusion in thought.


I'm glad you revived this thread. When I started it I didn't think many people would be that interested. In fact I wondered if anyone else would post at all. And now look... we are on page 6!
I think you pointed to an interesting fact in the part I quoted from above. We already all do live on light, just transformed in different ways. And in fact we directly absorb sunlight through our skins, and become sick without it. So it is a thread that is relevant to all of us in some ways.

The interesting thing for me is that there are different kinds of light, and I believe there is something which is as yet unknown in science, which is spiritual light. Since I started this thread my breathing has become ecstatic. So not only do I live with an ecstatic body, but I breathe in ecstasy with every breath. I believe I am breathing prana (light), along with air which is causing the ecstatic sensation.

Christi
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Christi

United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2008 :  10:51:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi again Gumpi,
quote:
Bypassing oxygen to live off of light is simply just a delusion in thought.



Just to mention... most people (humans) who I have heard of who live on light do in fact still breathe. They don't see the fact of their still breathing as especially contradictory to the fact that they do not eat, and derive their primary nutrition to rebuild the cells of the body, directly from divine light (or sunlight in some cases).

The only beings I have met who do not eat or drink or breathe are angels. And they live on light and love which they bathe in daily during their prayers. I have watched them doing this and it is absolutely incredible.

Christi
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Anthem

1608 Posts

Posted - Oct 08 2008 :  11:46:57 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Christi,

The expansion of ecstasy you describe above seems to be coming along nicely, wondering if you practice tantra at all?

From previous posts of yours, I know you have at least one daughter so clearly not tantra all the time... Feel free not to answer if you feel it's too personal, just wondering how you have found your ecstasy expansion to progress in relation to pre-orgasmic or orgasmic sex?

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Christi

United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - Oct 09 2008 :  11:55:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Anthem,

quote:
The expansion of ecstasy you describe above seems to be coming along nicely, wondering if you practice tantra at all?

From previous posts of yours, I know you have at least one daughter so clearly not tantra all the time...


I have two daughters . And yes I do practice Tantra, and have done on and off for about 20 years.

It is definately a help on the path and has helped to expand my nerve channels so that they can conduct the energy to the higher centres. I think anyone who is really serious about making progress in yoga either has to be celibate, or has to practice Tantra. Somehow the energy of the sexual essences has to be maintained in the body, and then taken upwards.

Christi

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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Oct 09 2008 :  12:09:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
This may seem like a really silly question to you all, but I still need to ask. I understand that male ejaculate, according to yoga practices, are meant to not be released and are meant to be reabsorbed into the system and gradually start working it's way up the spine. But what is considered the female "sexual essence"? Are males the only ones that need to draw the semen up the spine and females have a different process that needs to occur? If not, then what is the female sexual essence that has to be drawn upwards? Sorry if this is a stupid question and the answer is right out in the open and I am just too dumb to be able to find it.
In Love,
CarsonZi
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Christi

United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - Oct 09 2008 :  12:43:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Carson,

It's not that widely known, but women can and do ejaculate during orgasm. Women have a prostrate gland which can release sexual fluids.
There was a great article in a newspaper a few years ago by a female writer in the UK, who was saying how shocked she was at the increase in the number of women who were admitting that they faked orgasm during sex with their partners. Her response was: "how can a woman fake an orgasm, an orgasm is not a noise, it is an emmission!"

Christi
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Oct 09 2008 :  1:19:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Haha,
Thanks Christi.....I actually DO know a fair bit about female ejaculation, but I did not think about the fact that the fluid released is probably what should be going upwards. This must mean that it is ?easier? for women to complete the task of drawing the sexual essences up into the spine as it is much harder for a female to have an outward ejaculation then it is for a man right? And I thought that only SOME women have the capability for outward ejaculation. I didn't realize that EVERY woman has this ability. Shows how much I know!!
In Love,
CarsonZi

P.S. Isn't there much more then just one type of female orgasm? I know for a fact that at least some women can have orgasms without fluid, while at the same time the same woman can be capable of having outward ejaculations. My wife is like this so I can guarantee that there is more then one type of orgasm for a girl. Are all types of orgasms detrimental to the females spiritual energy conservation attempts or is just the outward ejaculation that is detrimental? Thanks for your clarifications!
In Love,
CarsonZi

Edited by - CarsonZi on Oct 09 2008 1:23:26 PM
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Christi

United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2008 :  11:06:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Carson,

quote:
This must mean that it is ?easier? for women to complete the task of drawing the sexual essences up into the spine as it is much harder for a female to have an outward ejaculation then it is for a man right?


Well, I can't speak from personal experience here as I am male, but I believe you are right in saying that it is harder for a woman to ejaculate during orgasm than it is for a man. I believe you are also right in saying that not all women exerience ejaculation during orgasm and that women experience different kinds of orgasm.

In fact, us men are capable of experiencing different kinds of orgasm too, we are capable of experiencing both genital based orgasm and whole body orgasms just as women are. And in fact (believe it or not) men are also capable of experiencing orgasm without ejaculation. This happens when the process of natural vajroli becomes so strong that the semen is drawn up into the bladder instead of flowing out of the penis during orgasm. I can tell you from my own experience that for a man, orgasm without ejaculation (with no blocking involved) does not deplete the energy of the body. I imagine the same is true for a woman but I have never had this clarified.

It is not the sexual fluids themselves that are re-directed up the spine, but the sexual energy. The sexual fluid is re-directed up into the bladder, and from there up through the GI tract to the stomach.
quote:
I actually DO know a fair bit about female ejaculation, but I did not think about the fact that the fluid released is probably what should be going upwards.


This is not made clear in the Hatha Yoga Pradipika. It is one of the few ancient yogic texts which does refer to the process of Yoga in women, but it is not too helpful in this regard. The word "rajas" is used to refer to all female sexual fluids. So rajas seems to refer to the fluids that are released during sex in the vigina for lubrication, to the fluids of female ejaculation, and to menstral blood and to the egg released during menses. It does not make it clear which of these needs to be preserved, or how exactly it is to be done.

Let's hope some female yogis are reading along here who can offer us greater clarification on which fluids they need to preserve in order to preserve their sexual energy.

Christi
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2008 :  11:54:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Christi,

Yeah I know this is a bit of wierd chat for two guys to have, but I am still curious because I practice tantra with my wife. Thanks for conversing.
I do understand that there are different types of orgasms even for men, and actually the last time I did have an orgasm nothing came out, so there is proof for natural vajroli. And I agree that in that specific instance no energy was lost, and in fact I probably had an INCREASE in energy afterwards. On a side note, how are me and my wife supposed to get pregnant if I can't ejaculate? haha.
I'm sure that this experience won't be indicative of every time we have sex.(hopefully not! We DO want to have a child)
You said "It is not the sexual fluids themselves that are re-directed up the spine, but the sexual energy. The sexual fluid is re-directed up into the bladder, and from there up through the GI tract to the stomach." I understood this and I just mispoke. I DID say though that it was the sexual ESSENCES (I meant energy when I said this) though and not sexual fluid. Although some texts, (don't have a reference right this minute, sorry) I have read state that the sexual fliuds ARE in fact drawn eventually into the cerebrospinal fluid and eventually bathe the brain in extra neuro transmitters because of this. I will try to find the reference I am referring to later and post it so you can see where I got this. In my opinion though, that doesn't make a lot of sense as I can't see how the sexual fluids could actually make it into the cerebrospinal fluid. It would have to get there via osmosis from the bladder or something. Not probable.

"Let's hope some female yogis are reading along here who can offer us greater clarification on which fluids they need to preserve in order to preserve their sexual energy."
Yes lets hope.

Thanks again,
In Love,
CarsonZi

Edited by - CarsonZi on Oct 10 2008 12:00:23 PM
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Christi

United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2008 :  12:17:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Carson,
quote:
Although some texts, (don't have a reference right this minute, sorry) I have read state that the sexual fliuds ARE in fact drawn eventually into the cerebrospinal fluid and eventually bathe the brain in extra neuro transmitters because of this.

Yes, I have seen this too, but I believe it is a mistake. Kundalini energy is drawn up the spine and into the brain from the root chakra. The sexual essences are drawn up into the stomach, and from there they are transmuted into an etheric substance called soma and are drawn up into the brain where they do have an effect on the higher centres (especially the crown). So it is easy to see where the mistake came from.

quote:
Yeah I know this is a bit of wierd chat for two guys to have, but I am still curious because I practice tantra with my wife. Thanks for conversing.


I thought men talk about women and sex all the time. Nothing wierd about that!

quote:
On a side note, how are me and my wife supposed to get pregnant if I can't ejaculate? haha.
I'm sure that this experience won't be indicative of every time we have sex.(hopefully not! We DO want to have a child)


No worries there! When you want to ejaculate I think you will find that you always can, it's just a case of directing the energy with your mind.

Christi
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gumpi

United Kingdom
546 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2008 :  12:49:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit gumpi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
How do you know that semen is going up inside your body? Is it nothing but an opinion?
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yogani

USA
5189 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2008 :  1:14:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi

How do you know that semen is going up inside your body? Is it nothing but an opinion?


Hi Gumpi:

The tell-tale sign is the body-wide ecstatic connection. It is admittedly subjective, but those who experience it can "see" what is happening. This is one that the scientists will be able to measure, whenever they get around to it.

See here also, and other topics on vajroli in the tantra forum: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=4553

The guru is in you.

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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2008 :  1:49:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Gumpi,
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I can tell you that the last time I had an orgasm during sex, NO semen came out of my genitals. I had not had an orgasm for many weeks before this so it was not a case of not having sperm to release. This had never happened to me as drastically as this, (I had noticed a decrease in the amount of sperm released during orgasm, but not a complete lack of it.) and I have had my sperm count tested in recent years and know that I am pretty normal in that respect. I can't say that this happens for everyone, and maybe it doesn't, but I can tell you from personal experience now that it has at least started to happen to me, or so it seems. Hope this helps a little.

In Love,
CarsonZi
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brother neil

USA
752 Posts

Posted - Oct 10 2008 :  9:16:09 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi

How do you know that semen is going up inside your body? Is it nothing but an opinion?


I started practicing tantra, how do i know that semen is going up? you ever go to the carnival and get the big hammer and smack the lever and watch the ball go up and ring the bell, for me it is just like that sometimes when I try to draw it up, just liks smacking a bell right behind my third eye point. is it semen, its something and that I know for sure. even though I just started tantra, in this incarnation, when i have accidently ejaculated the emmisions are different, last time it was a steady stream. why, dont know but I do feel my life is evolving, where to, dont know but much less suffering and more living in the moment.

about the visions being placebo, brother I go into meditation to calm the mind, not for visions. but this happened last sunday
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=4543
why, how, I dont know but I was very conscious when it happened. I did not expect it. My butthole has been vibrating going on 11 days now, I did not expect it to happen or placebo it, it just starts when it feels like it I guess. I have had a few other visions but the most amazing vision I have had is to look into anothers eyes and feel love for them. I am speaking of a love that I had not recognized in the first 32 years of my life.

why not do the tricks for money, well isnt chris angel doing it? If he is real still people dont believe it. also, when things open up the way we view life evolves, me and you trying to understand why "enlightened" people do not come out and put on a circus show, if we saw how they see, we might understand. Love is the goal and the siddhis are part of the package for some people and then to honor them is to use them in loving ways. Not proving people right or wrong. also doing the tricks may distract people from love

what is possible, living on light? remember brother gumpi, you exist and you cannot explain how. sure you can say big bang happened and then this and then that etc.... but how was big bang possible, what existed before the first atom/god/or whatever name you use? something made this all possible, so if that power is in you to those who have the faith, amazing things are possible.
I can appreciate your bluntness and skepticism, I have had many similar questions and doubts. we are big boys and girls on here, we can handle it, it seems you have come to the right place.

as some say, "with god all things are possible"
we are love, we are light, we are joy, we are peace, we are possible
we are one
i am brother neil
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Christi

United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2008 :  08:54:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani,

quote:
The tell-tale sign is the body-wide ecstatic connection. It is admittedly subjective, but those who experience it can "see" what is happening. This is one that the scientists will be able to measure, whenever they get around to it.


Why do you say that the whole-body ecstasy is proof of automatic vajroli? I always thought it was caused by the nadis being pure enough and wide enough to channel large amounts of prana after kundalini awakening. Could this not happen even before vajroli sets in?

Wouldn't the release of amrita and ojas in the brain be a more sure sign of vajroli occuring?

Christi
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yogani

USA
5189 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2008 :  10:17:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Christi

Hi Yogani,

quote:
The tell-tale sign is the body-wide ecstatic connection. It is admittedly subjective, but those who experience it can "see" what is happening. This is one that the scientists will be able to measure, whenever they get around to it.


Why do you say that the whole-body ecstasy is proof of automatic vajroli? I always thought it was caused by the nadis being pure enough and wide enough to channel large amounts of prana after kundalini awakening. Could this not happen even before vajroli sets in?

Wouldn't the release of amrita and ojas in the brain be a more sure sign of vajroli occuring?

Christi


Hi Christi:

The short answer is that the sexual essences are the prana in motion in the nervous system on the physical level. The ecstatic experience is a symptom of this flow. Because of that connection, I think it is safe to say that anyone experiencing whole body ecstasy also has natural vajroli occurring. And, yes, this is a function of the purification of the entire nervous system (nadis).

It is really a question of how far we carry the neurobiology/prana relationship. Neurobiologically speaking, sexual essences are the source of ecstatic conductivity (kundalini), and the purification of the nervous system (corresponding nadis) by a full range of practices provides the opening for the process to move forward, yielding the spiritual experiences.

I am not saying that this physical/spiritual connection is absolutely how it is, going all the way in, but there is strong evidence that the connection between the neurobiology and spiritual experiences goes pretty far. Soma, amrita and ojas can be seen to be subdivisions of this, going to very refined substances finding their origin in the neurobiology also, as we have discussed previously. And you are right -- the presence of these substances is also evidence of natural vajroli, as is whole body mudra and other indicators of ecstatic bliss permeating the body and beyond.

Whether the neurobiology model of enlightenment turns out to be true in the long run is the question, isn't it? By taking this approach, many are given a handle on their experiences in terms of understanding the symptoms and underlying neurobiological changes that are clearly occurring. I have been asked literally hundreds of times in private, "Why is my spiritual ecstasy accompanied by sexual arousal?" The rise of natural vajroli is the reason. It is a component of kundalini awakening.

Putting the neurobiology out in front also hangs a big carrot out there for modern science to grab on to. There are plenty of things here that can be measured, and sooner or later science will get around to it. As many more practitioners come on line having these experiences (inevitable now), and the general lay of the land of the enlightenment process becomes more familiar everywhere, a fertile new field for scientific research will emerge.

Those who are more mystically inclined can ignore all the neurobiology and simply enjoy the ride, laughing all the way.

Either way, our bhakti and the maintenance of an effective daily practice routine will continue to be the engine for human spiritual transformation in individuals and the population at large.

Onward!

The guru is in you.

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Anthem

1608 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2008 :  11:13:01 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Yogani,

It has been my observation that when the inner energy changes (openings or directions of flow etc.) that the physical body follows in time to match. It appears from my current perspective to have more power when it comes from this direction.

So the work we do, the sitting practices, the self-inquiry, seems to have greater impact than the physical efforts we make: asanas, the physical practice of vajiroli, diet, etc. These do impact the energy body but more like using a teaspoon to empty a barrel of water whereas inner energy changes internally punch giant holes in the barrel emptying it in a far more straight-forward manner.

Would you say this is an accurate perspective?
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yogani

USA
5189 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2008 :  11:24:33 AM  Show Profile  Visit yogani's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11

Hi Yogani,

It has been my observation that when the inner energy changes (openings or directions of flow etc.) that the physical body follows in time to match. It appears from my current perspective to have more power when it comes from this direction.

So the work we do, the sitting practices, the self-inquiry, seems to have greater impact than the physical efforts we make: asanas, the physical practice of vajiroli, diet, etc. These do impact the energy body but more like using a teaspoon to empty a barrel of water whereas inner energy changes internally punch giant holes in the barrel emptying it in a far more straight-forward manner.

Would you say this is an accurate perspective?



Hi Andrew:

Yes, I agree. But an avid hatha yogi may disagree.

All roads lead home. An effective integration of all roads leads home even faster.

The guru is in you.

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gumpi

United Kingdom
546 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2008 :  12:26:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit gumpi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Perhaps the whole "astral body" idea is false. Consciousness animates matter and prana comes from consciousness. Prana is the superfine energy akin to the ether. Who says that an energy body is necessary to mediate consciousness and matter? Perhaps it is more accurate to think that the entire universe as consciousness animates bodies with a universal "ether" prana.

The reason i say this is because it occured to me that people who have Out-Of-Body Experiences sometimes say they really were out of their physical body and others put it down to lucid dreams. Maybe what is actually missing here is that OBEs are only real in the sense of a psychic perceptive kind of thing. ESP. Almost like remote viewing but with a dissociative quality attached. Anyone who has had a psychic or spiritual experience attests to the fact that it seemed to be real and maybe even more real than actual reality seems normally. But it is all in the mind, and the mind is a doubting and belief structured machine. Which means that even when people have a psychic experience it is possible to doubt that it was real. I think exactly almost the same thing is true of experiences of the pure self, or pure consciousness, except that in this latter experience the reality is incredibly more real.

In the yogic scriptures there are 72,000 nadis. When these yogis wrote these things down they knew next to nothing about the biology of the human body except as what their intuition revealed to them. Isn't it possible that perhaps their descriptions of the nadis is wrong? I mean, there are the nerves of the body that modern science has discovered and they are nowhere near as much as 72,000.

So what reason do we have to suppose that the nadis that don't correspond to the physical nervous system and the accounts of astral projection have anything in common? There is no reason.

Likewise, past life regression and even internal experiences of past lives could be nothing but ESP. Perhaps children, whose minds are not developed much, are able to psychically "pick up" other lives? I see no reason to think this isn't a valid theory. There are other reasons why i think this theory is a good one. Certain people are born seemingly with psychic abilities and others not. Could it have something to do with genetics, ie the brain? There is no need to adopt a reincarnation model if this is the case, nor to suppose that some people are born "spiritually evolved". People who are considered to be spiritually evolved from a young age might turn into an avatar! I don't believe in this. It gives people license to control others immorally.

And what about this - the idea that two living persons can be both said to be the reincarnation of only one soul (usually a famous one)? Isn't it more sensible to think that they are either a) lying or b) experiencing the life of said "soul" by ESP?

I'm just throwing out some theories and ideas here. I am of the firm opinion that God or the pure consciousness lying behind and within all matter, is in control of everything and that humans have VERY LIMITED free will. This explains why some people seem to get "grace" and loads of spiritual experiences and other people don't get any. There is, in some sense, a way of being receptive to this consciousness but that is all a person can do. "God" is pulling all the levers.

Another thing. It is a scientific fact that the brain waves originate from the medulla oblongata in the brain stem. Now, is it too much to say that perhaps matter is dead until consciousness with it's prana animates it, through the medulla? In which case, what is the need for a pranic body? I am presenting a dualistic model here of consciousness on the one hand and matter on the other. I see no reason to think there is anything in between them, especially when Einstein proved that matter is equivalent to energy.
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CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Oct 11 2008 :  12:53:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Gumpi,
I am short on time so please forgive the frankness and incompleteness of my reply, perhaps when I have more time I will elaborate.
On OBE, you may think that these are akin to ESP and for many cases it may be, I don't know...but what I DO know from personal exerience and can be verified by my personal friends, is that on Ketamine, I had the ability to "see" things I could not possibly have seen or known about without leaving my bed.(where I used to trip on K) On days when I was using Ketamine as a sleep aid and not as a tool for self inquiry I would have about 30 minutes to kill after taking it before I would be able to sleep, this 30 minutes is usually tripping pretty hard. But in these times when I am taking the drug for reasons other then self exploration I needed something to do with this 30minutes during which I am incapacitated.(can't walk, can't talk etc.) This was when I discovered that I could do something akin to remote veiwing. I would leave my body (consiously) and travel to friends houses and "spy" on my friends so that I could freak them out the next day with info that I could not possibly have known. Sometimes I would forget my trips which is common, but sometimes I would retain the information and would relay this to my friends the next day. I actually LOST a few friends over this because they thought it was creepy, and indeed in retrospect it probably was. (not by intention though)
Saying this, I have never left my body without the aid of drugs. Not in that capacity anyways. I have left my body without drugs because of severe pain, but unless you are ready for that pain it is very difficult to work with an experience like that. Sorry this doesn't address the rest of your posting, I will try to get back soon and elaborate more.
In Love,
CarsonZi
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Christi

United Kingdom
3820 Posts

Posted - Oct 12 2008 :  09:20:13 AM  Show Profile  Visit Christi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Gumpi,
quote:
In the yogic scriptures there are 72,000 nadis. When these yogis wrote these things down they knew next to nothing about the biology of the human body except as what their intuition revealed to them.


Maybe with their inner sight, they saw 72,000 nadis. Must have taken a while to count eh?
Or maybe with their highly developed superconscious minds they were able to count them all in a split second.

quote:
Who says that an energy body is necessary to mediate consciousness and matter?


I can't imagine how consciousness could animate matter without an intervening (or several intervening: causal, astral and etheric) layer of energy. That would be like trying to pick up a bucket without a body.

Christi
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