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brushjw
USA
191 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 08 2007 : 5:00:20 PM
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Hello, I am new to this forum. I have found Yogandi's lessons extremely useful and am so grateful I found this web site.
Pranayama almost immediately sends me into a meditative state but I find that my back, shoulder and neck muscles are rock hard afterwards, even though I am not aware of any tightening while meditating. I suspect this has something to do with the movement of prana. Is this a problem? Should I do anything other than the obvious (massage) to alleviate this?
Namaste,
Joe |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2007 : 04:52:05 AM
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Hi brushjw,
Welcome to the forum. How wonderful you've found the AYP lessons so useful.  We are glad that you found this website.
I also find that energies tend to stick in the area of neck and shoulders, particularly during meditation. Many of my friends have the same symptoms, and at gatherings when lots of energies are moving, many start giving each other a massage to get some relief. It seems to be a very common symptom. However, I have only heard one explanation of it and it would be great to hear if anyone else knows more about it. I have also wondered! What I've heard is that we are on a journey where the mind and the heart is merging. Between the heart and the third eye is what? The throat chakra. So before heart and mind can merge, all the blockages in the area between must be cleared, thus giving a lot of tension in the neck and shoulders.
In line with this, I also read somewhere at the website www.reuniting.info that the consciousness of humankind is rising from heart to throat, so the opening of the throat chakra is currently the big thing. If I find that passage I'll post it.
I don't do anything else to it but massage, stretch and sometimes tiger balm or the like. |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2007 : 08:54:03 AM
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Hi bushjw
welcome to the forum.
What emc says may well be what it is about, here is another perspective.
When I sit and the energy rises, the spine often becomes erect and is held effortlessly. After a while I sometimes notice my erector muscles down the side of the spine are in tension.
I would put this down to the sitting position and type of back support, if any.
If we sit in a position where the torso above the waist feels like it is floating freely with minimal muscle tension involved in staying upright, then when the energy rises the back can straighten without any need for muscles to hold it in position. In this way we can relax and be straight both at the same time. (this would be usually sitting cross-legged or on the meditation stool)
If, on the other hand, we sit on a couch with back support and the spine does not straighten and we are relaxed into this sitting position then this also should not produce tense muscles.
If we sit on a couch and change from this position to a spinal straightening position then muscle tension could occur because you are holding the spine upright from an unnatural position.
I also know people who have shoulder muscle tension during and after meditation. It could be blocks coming into awareness, or another way of putting it is - as we relax we become aware of tensions we were unaware of before.
Massage is excellent and also awareness of the tensions you carry during the day, rotating the shoulders and breathing into them. Also pulling the shoulders back helps and this also helps in opening the heart.
my 2 cents
Louis |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2007 : 11:01:19 AM
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It's not a great symptom, but it's great that you noticed and are taking action on it! Lots of people might fail to notice...or would notice and shrug it off.
I don't have much of an answer for you, but I do have something to try.
I'm a longtime hatha yogi, and my hatha yoga macho had me sitting for AYP uncushioned on a wood floor. I didn't need the comforts Yogani suggested, I could do away with all that! Then, one day, feeling a bit weak, I tried his advice of practicing in bed, with back against the headboard (or the wall), with a pillow tucked in behind my lower back. And I have never gone back! To this day, this is still how I do my AYP, even though I also have a pretty macho asana practice going, in parallel. I find everything works faster, easier, and deeper with this sort of support. And I suspect it might help your pranayama issue, as well (though I'm not sure about it).
Victor seems like the most experienced pranayama person around here, with the most insight. So I hope he pipes in - he'd probably have more specific advice for you. But you may want to try doing practices in bed, with a pillow, like a princess! It may take care of the problem. If you try it and it doesn't, though, please come back to us. Again, rigidity in pranayama is a warned-about sign. It's never happened to me, so I don't have much info on cause or cure. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 09 2007 11:02:24 AM |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2007 : 11:29:33 AM
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| I get a smiliar feeling in the left side up near my trapezius and neck. Also a hot/cold feeling. |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2007 : 12:30:01 PM
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Muscles can go into spasm from a bit of over use in the beginning, or a back that isn't straight might come to rest in a position using more of one muscle to hold itself up and less of another.
Do you stretch before and after every sitting? If not, I would make stretching a key part to the practice. It makes everything move smoother, easier, and faster. I would not at all call it a short cut, but the proper way.
If it isn't a spasming, tense, clamped, or slightly over used part of the body, it could be kundalini sensations. Again, I recommend deep and comprehensive stretching all the way. Wouldn't worry about sensations, but enjoy them as a part of the process.
I started out doing pranayama and deep meditation from the laying down position, and even though my spine had been surgically operated on, I was able, over a lot of time/practice/pain, to establish myself in the upright position and beyond. But, unless your spine is already strong, straight, and flexible, sitting practices can always cause spasms or tense muscles after you release the pose. Asana routines are a great way to build the core strength around the spine, so all the regions start slowly sliding into their proper places.
I've tried against the wall as well, and it is a fantastic method.
Good luck, brush. :)
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Edited by - Kyman on Oct 09 2007 1:03:48 PM |
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2007 : 1:34:23 PM
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| When I first began to seriously meditate, I experienced pain and stiffness in neck and shoulder muscles. I meditated in a stuffed chair with good back support so it wasn't a posture issue. There was so much going on in my body from the meditation that I just new it was due to that. My head felt like it would explode. This was before I ever practiced any pranayam. This subsided after about a few short weeks as I recall. Try some warm packs (like hot towel) or a hot shower and some gentle neck rolls after your practices just for the relief. I think you'll see that this will pass before too long. |
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Victor
USA
910 Posts |
Posted - Oct 09 2007 : 3:06:17 PM
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| Ok, here is my take on this and it is a little tricky. First of all you may be experiencing tension from sitting upright for a longer period than you are used to with increased energy flow. This can lead to purification symptoms and they should pass with time and practice. On the other hand it is also possible that by sitting in such a way that causes a blockage of energy you may be ctually creating a real problem that wasn't there before. My example is this. Due to my own body structure of long legs and a somewhat excessive spinal curve, when I tried to sit in "proper" siddhasana with my foot tucked under the perineum and the other foot tucked between shin and thigh I experienced some severe back tension and pain. I figured that it would pass with time but it didn't. What I had been doing was creating a torque in my pelvis and spine that was getting worse, not better with practice. Now, there are a few options here. Certainly the easiest was to practice in a chair and thus not constrict the pelvic area. That made for an open practice but as a more "serious" yogi it felt too easy so back on the floor I went. I worked at sitting on folded blankets or blocks and that helped some but for me at this time I just let my feet rest loosely on the floor with no lift under me. What I mean by that is that the foot doesn't tuck under the perineum but instead sort of rests in front and untucked anywhere, the top foot also resting untucked over it. this creates a very loose siddhasana which allows my pelvis and spine to unwind and then any back tension I attribute to the process of purification and strengthening. Its not easy to get it right and I think that what Jim said about just resting on the bed with back support may really be the right answer for most people. I am stubborn though and still working at it but it is trickier and more subtle than you might imagine and causing pain and tension by the way you sit is definitely not a help in the practice of meditation. |
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brushjw
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2007 : 4:03:13 PM
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I was quite surprised and very pleased to receive so many responses, and so quickly. Thank you all for your thoughtful replies.
Perhaps I should have given a little background of my meditation practice. I began about three years ago and found much benefit to maintaining mindfulness throughout the day, rather than in formal meditation. My formal meditation gradually grew from 15-20 minutes once a week to an hour a day four or five days a week. About a year ago memories began to force their way into my consciousness and meditation sessions became something I endured, rather than a source of peace and enjoyment. I quit formal meditation and recommitted myself to repeated mindfulness during the day.
I work at an office job on the computer most of the day. I have set a reminder in my email program that displays a prompt every 25 minutes. When I see the reminder I – no matter how busy I am, or how important the task I am working on – correct my posture, arrange my arms in the Shambhala meditation posture, and clear my mind for three breaths. (Since I have begun AYP I don’t seem to need to breathe as much during these breaks so three breaths can take a while!).
So I don’t believe my back/neck discomfort is caused by a physical weakness. I am quite conscious of my posture for 8-10 hours a day, five days a week. I have not experienced this feeling before. Not only can I feel a tightening of the muscles all down my back, through my shoulders and neck, but the back feels pumped up like I’ve been lifting weights. It tingles and feels alive. But thanks for the reminders about stretching.
A few months ago I read Osho's commentary on the Vigyan Bhairav Tantra (Book of Secrets) and took Osho’s suggestion at the discussion of the nineteenth technique ("Without support for feet or hands sit only with the buttocks. Suddenly, the centering." [p.179]) to first spend ten minutes a day concentrating on one hand. Because the hand is much more sensitive than the buttocks this is a good way to train yourself to become attuned to your body. So I concentrated on my left hand, then moved to the buttocks and did become very centered in a way I can’t describe.
I also experience dibba-sota, or clairaudience, or meditation-induced tinnitus. What began as a single sound evolved into multiple sounds, then a strange sort of symphony, then a “buttery”, tactile sensation, and now manifests as a shift in consciousness/a rain of bliss (“grace like rain”). So I am becoming intensely aware of my body, one part of the time.
As I am writing this I realize that I’m trying to use my intellect to understand this process, and attempting to differentiate between the physical, mental and spiritual. I’m coming to believe that they’re all components of one continuum.
Namaste and blessings to you all,
Joe |
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2007 : 7:02:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jim and His Karma
It's not a great symptom, rigidity in pranayama is a warned-about sign. It's never happened to me, so I don't have much info on cause or cure.
Hi Jim,
Could you direct us to more info on this "warned about sign?" Thanks.
Jill |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2007 : 11:33:47 PM
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Iyengar yoga is extremely cautious about pranayama, and one of the warnings I hear Iyengar system teachers give is that muscular tension is a major symptom requiring cessation of the practice session. It's been somewhat drummed into me.
That's specific to pranayama. But in yoga generally (all eight limbs), tenseness and strain is always a foundational sign of wrong approach. Rock hard muscles indicate strain (and all strain is based in ego). Yoga is about melting into What Is, and about letting rather than willing. Done correctly, all legs of yoga more toward greater and greater relaxation. They say that distilling all the wisdom of the Vedas and rishis into a monosyllable yields the sound "Om". If you back up and distill it all into two syllables, it'd be "relax". Rock hard muscles = bad sign.
Furthermore, yoga (especially pranayama) involves cultivating and encompassing enormous energies, and if you're not relaxed and "letting', and are straining in some way (for or against, consciously or unconsciously), results can be negative both for you and for your spiritual practice. Muscular tension is the last thing you want when freight trains of shakti are roaring through your nadis.
In brushjw's case, this issue may have nothing whatever to do with tension or straining of any sort. Who knows what exceptional scenarios there are! But I doubt there's a yoga teacher in the world who wouldn't be concerned by a report like his original posting. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Oct 10 2007 11:36:46 PM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2007 : 11:51:12 AM
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Hi Jim,
Strangely when doing japa , sometimes the shakti actually locks up some of my muscles. It's never a problem as I just relax and let it be. Once though when I had taken a breath my body locked upand I couldn't exhale. I was sat wondering if I would suffocate before shakti would release me. hehehehe
L&L
Dave |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 11 2007 : 12:02:35 PM
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Welcome to the forum Joe.
Since you are sure its not your posture that is making your back muscles tight.. it may be the energy movement that is causing it... esp. since you say..
"Not only can I feel a tightening of the muscles all down my back, through my shoulders and neck, but the back feels pumped up like I’ve been lifting weights. It tingles and feels alive."
I have a block in my throat area and find when there is a lot of energy moving up my spine.. my back muscles tighten up. It maybe because there is loads of energy and nowhere to go.. so there is a pile up of energy near the base of my neck and upper back.. which causes the feeling of tightness in the muscles... You may be experiencing something similar.
Just continue with your practice and all the blocks will dissolve to let the energy move smoothly and this will reduce the tightness.
You could add asanas that stretch your spine before your spinal breathing... that helps me a lot. Also, you have not said what your AYP routine is and how long you have been following AYP (I think)??? If you have, forgive me for missing it. One other thing that helps me a lot is the chin pump.. however if you are new to AYP you may not want to add it on as yet. There is also Lite Chin Pump which may help. But please be careful with these practices.. they may seem very easy but are very powerful.
Also, do you do Sambhavi and Mulabandha during spinal breathing? These too will help direct the energy upwards towards the 3rd eye. Once again, word of caution, if you are not already doing these, please do not add them in all at once.
Hope something here helps. Wish you all the best. |
Edited by - Shanti on Oct 11 2007 12:04:22 PM |
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brushjw
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2007 : 5:25:17 PM
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I realized after my last post that I had posted to ask for advice but wasn't taking it! So I've been meditating in the morning in bed with back support as suggested and it seems to a eliminate a lot of the physical aspect of meditation. I'm not sure if that's totally a good thing. I've been trained in the Shambhala tradition of "taking one's seat" and the nobility of meditation, which I believe is important.
I've also backed off my Pranayama practice a bit. The effects are almost immediate and often intense. I'm not in any hurry.
Namaste,
Joe |
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brushjw
USA
191 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2007 : 3:29:51 PM
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Some comments on Pranayama:
1. It is much easier for me to practice spinal breathing during the exhalation than the inhalation.
2. The inhalation, although technically more difficult, results immediately in meditative absorption, calm, bliss, clairaudience, and a diminishing of grasping of external phenomena.
3. The last 25% or so of both the inhalation and exhalation are accompanied with corresponding straightening of the upper and lower back. As my attention focuses on the top of the spinal column to the third eye, my I lift up my chin. The greater my attention to the process and connection to my body, the more pronounced the realignments.
4. The “taste charism”, (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jhanas/message/12238) which I have previously noted but has not been strong, becomes quite marked. I can best describe the taste as a combination of menthol and copper. I am hesitant to call it “unpleasant”, because I feel the charisms are a blessing (even using this word, which means “a divinely conferred gift or power”, is important for me). This seems to be similar to the “glowing mint-like sensation” mention in Lesson 51 (http://www.aypsite.org/51.html ) but occurs in my mouth, not my stomach.
5. Spinal breathing results not in gurgling sounds in my stomach, but in flatulence(!). Enough said.
6. After I finish spinal breathing, I’ve noticed that often my neck cracks loudly. Earlier this week it cracked to such a degree that I was stunned (that’s the only word I can think of to use) for a few seconds. I’ve noticed that I can increase my meditative absorption by relaxing my muscles. Yogani discussed this in Chapter 38 (“Tension constricts our nerves, and this restricts the flow of consciousness through us. Breathing slowly and deeply loosens our nerves, facilitating the flow of consciousness through us, and this has the desired relaxing effect.”). So it’s surprising from a meditation standpoint that spinal breathing results in such an effect, which I associate with tight, not relaxed, muscles. But if this practice really results in a physiological purification and opening of the sushumna, this would make sense. It’s hard for me to believe, even though I’m experiencing it.
7. Immediately after spinal breathing I am very aware of my spine. It glows with warmth and tingles. My back feels pumped up, and I’ve even had the strange sensation/thought of sprouting wings.
8. All this energy going through my body leaves me feeling extremely weak afterwards (I'm guessing this is the reason for the weakness). I’ve found a marked increase in the need for sleep. If I don’t get at least 9-10 hours of sleep I feel very shaky, weak and vulnerable, as if just after a severe illness.
9. Even writing of my experiences brings on the charisms, so I know it’s beneficial.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Namaste,
Joe
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Tight Back Muscles
