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JonJon
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
 Posted - May 08 2007 : 05:20:34 AM
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Three things:
1. Following an intensification of yoga practices, I find myself spending a lot of the day experiencing what can only be described as a natural high. It feels a like a weed/ecstasy experience without the negative feelings that come from the knowledge that you are mistreating your body. Music sounds particularly vivid. This feels like too much fun to be part of an enlightenment experience. Does this last?
2. How many people who have been diagnosed as manic depressive do you suppose are just experiencing some kind of kundalini effects? It's become very trendy to be manic depressive recently, and all sorts of people who have an occasional mood swing have decided that they are manic depressives, and undiscovered geniuses to boot, but amongst some people with the diagnosis, it seems likely that some are dealing with a kundalini awakening alone or in conjunction with their illness.
3. Reincarnation seems to me to be an entirely plausible theory - certainly compared to the Pearly Gates of heaven. The one thing I don't understand is how with a rapidly expanding world population there the souls are coming from to incarnate the increasing number of bodies on this earth. Any thoughts?
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 08:13:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by JonJon
1. Following an intensification of yoga practices, I find myself spending a lot of the day experiencing what can only be described as a natural high. It feels a like a weed/ecstasy experience without the negative feelings that come from the knowledge that you are mistreating your body. Music sounds particularly vivid. This feels like too much fun to be part of an enlightenment experience. Does this last?
Ummmm.. JonJon.. how intensive????
I have never done drugs.. I cannot relate to how a drug high feel.... So.. does a high feel like being ungrounded.. groggy.. light headed.. or does it involve being "happy" and "nothing can touch me" type of feeling..
If you feel like you are high all day (as in ungrounded).. you may be over doing your practice. The idea is to do the recommended practice and then be active for the rest of the day.. Grounded!!!!
Each person is very different.. and this may not apply to you.. but sooner or later an "intensive practice" (along with little or no rest after practice).. that is leading to a feeling of (an ungrounded) "high" all day will send you into a crown overload or an energy overload or a purification overload.. none of them are very pleasant I assure you..
If however the "high" feeling .. makes you feel on top of the world and in love with everything around you.. and you feel happy and like nothing can "get" to you.. this could be a result of an inner opening (in which case you dont have to worry about over doing). This is temporary.. once your system settles into this opening.. the feeling of "high" will fade away however it will leave you feeling lighter and better.
quote:
Originally posted by JonJon
2. How many people who have been diagnosed as manic depressive do you suppose are just experiencing some kind of kundalini effects? It's become very trendy to be manic depressive recently, and all sorts of people who have an occasional mood swing have decided that they are manic depressives, and undiscovered geniuses to boot, but amongst some people with the diagnosis, it seems likely that some are dealing with a kundalini awakening alone or in conjunction with their illness.
Not sure if this is a fact or not for others, but I know my depression was due to kundalini and premature crown awakening. |
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JonJon
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 1:17:24 PM
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| Thanks for your reply. I wouldn't describe myself as having had a huge amount of drug experience, but the feelings I have been getting have been euphoric, with an accompanying energetic surge which is reminiscent of certain mood altering substances. The feeling is strongest just after meditating. It feels healthy and positive, but I agree that I could be lacking some grounding. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 2:13:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JonJon
1. Following an intensification of yoga practices, I find myself spending a lot of the day experiencing what can only be described as a natural high. It feels a like a weed/ecstasy experience without the negative feelings that come from the knowledge that you are mistreating your body. Music sounds particularly vivid. This feels like too much fun to be part of an enlightenment experience. Does this last?
It ebbs and flows. The best periods are when the ecstasy dries up a bit; at those points you'll find you'll be able to move forward in your practices more easily. When the ecstasy is fully there, the perfume cloud may distract you off your mantra even more than your buzzing mind and thoughts ever did. And that's ok, too, because the whole practice revolves around coming back to mantra NO MATTER WHAT. There's a carrot and a stick. The stick will try to beat you off mantra (I'm tired, i'm hungry, what's the use) and now you've met the carrot which can entice you off mantra (with bliss).
You are not any of it. You are endless calm, untouched by thoughts or perfume. Keep returning to mantra, and follow Yogani's advice to not chase after experiences. they happen, we enjoy them (and, yep, they're far better than drugs), but they're nothing but perfume. You needn't reject or ignore this extraneous stuff; just always favor mantra and never ever stop practicing!
All openings of any sort feed you a little cookie, like a circus animal. A little bit of bliss (or more than a little bit). You're not a seal or a puppy. Soberly accept the energetic cookie as an indication that things are on the right track.
quote:
Originally posted by JonJon
2. How many people who have been diagnosed as manic depressive do you suppose are just experiencing some kind of kundalini effects? It's become very trendy to be manic depressive recently, and all sorts of people who have an occasional mood swing have decided that they are manic depressives, and undiscovered geniuses to boot, but amongst some people with the diagnosis, it seems likely that some are dealing with a kundalini awakening alone or in conjunction with their illness.
There are certainly many people with awakened kundalini who are branded crazy (often they brand themselves), 'cuz this stuff is so far off the paradigm (there's no way for your average Westerner to experience this within standard models). And some probably really are crazy...have gone into really negative space due to fear, lack of preparation, guidance, etc. The critical diff is that crazy people (including true manic depressives) are never peaceful or happy. As Yogani says, watch carefully your worldly encounters. Notice how smooth you are. And use that to gauge your self pacing.
quote:
Originally posted by JonJon
3. Reincarnation seems to me to be an entirely plausible theory - certainly compared to the Pearly Gates of heaven. The one thing I don't understand is how with a rapidly expanding world population there the souls are coming from to incarnate the increasing number of bodies on this earth. Any thoughts?
Even if we answered all the questions that exist in the world and in the spirit, we'd still feel unfulfilled. I'm less interested in understanding stuff, and more interested in becoming more like the reed, battered ceaselessly by the wind, but feeling no turmoil because it does not draw distinction....does not know wind as a thing separate from itself. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on May 08 2007 3:20:41 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 2:24:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JonJon
Thanks for your reply. I wouldn't describe myself as having had a huge amount of drug experience, but the feelings I have been getting have been euphoric, with an accompanying energetic surge which is reminiscent of certain mood altering substances. The feeling is strongest just after meditating. It feels healthy and positive, but I agree that I could be lacking some grounding.
Just to be sure I'm clear...it IS healthy and positive. Your hesitation is normal...you can read about this stuff for years, but experiencing it is a whole other thing. Let it be. Don't fight the feeling. Go with the flow. Just remember that it's not the goal of practice, just a very nice side effect. And that happiness is your birthright. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 5:42:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by JonJon
but the feelings I have been getting have been euphoric, with an accompanying energetic surge which is reminiscent of certain mood altering substances. The feeling is strongest just after meditating. It feels healthy and positive, but I agree that I could be lacking some grounding.
Jim has given you a very good reply.
... and if this euphoric feeling is not interfering with your every day life.. you are fine..
The only thing I will add.. make sure you get enough rest after meditation (since you said this feeling is strongest right after meditation).. and if it (excess energy) starts interfering with your everyday activity.. do some grounding stuff and/or cut back on your practice a bit.
All the best. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 8:26:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Shanti
if it (excess energy) starts interfering with your everyday activity.. do some grounding stuff and/or cut back on your practice a bit.
"Interfering" is a bit vague.
If you're awash in bliss at the laundromat, there's nothing at all wrong with that. Again, it's not something to reject. But if you're so awash in bliss that you don't fulfill responsibilities that matter to you, or you walk obliviously in traffic, or you want to do nothing but meditate all the time, or you find you can't relate to people (that's the biggie) with whom you interact on a daily basis, THEN you need to ratchet back, self-pace, per AYP's many warnings.
The bliss itself isn't a problem so long as it doesn't derail your practice or make living in the world difficult. If there are problems, such as my examples above, bliss can indeed be scaled back by self-pacing. |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on May 08 2007 8:26:49 PM |
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JonJon
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 03:49:56 AM
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| Food for thought - thanks. Everything in moderation I guess. It does make me wonder what must be going on for full time 'holy men' who spend many hours a day in meditation. I guess that have no choice but to devote themselves to it full time. Makes me respect the likes of Lahiri Mahasaya, who managed to combine enlightenment and business responsibilities. |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 08:02:33 AM
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Again, if you do it right, the bliss does not distract. Observing our level of distraction is one measure by which we self-pace. It's possible to be handling yourself quite smoothly in the world, acting totally engaged and focused, and doing whatever you choose to do in a grounded, competent way...all while feeling mushroom clouds of love.
Insofar as it's NOT like this for you (now or in future), that means it's time to self pace until you're back in focus. Yogani has much advice on this (might want to reread that stuff). |
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Nirodha
New Zealand
86 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2007 : 08:06:16 AM
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Hi JonJon,
I'm going to take a bit different tact than what you've been offered so far. In regards to meditation, regardless of the type, when the bliss arises I find it best to abandon my initial object of meditation, and to take up the bliss as the new object. By doing so, the bliss just deepens and eventually gives way to a new, more profound level of Samadhi (meditative absorption).
I live with the characteristic manifestations of meditative absorption nearly every waking hour of my day, and have been doing so for several years now. And, I have not found that this interferes with my 'normal' life at all. Quite the opposite really, as I find it a comfortable presence.
Peace,
Nirodha |
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JonJon
United Kingdom
22 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2007 : 09:54:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Nirodha
Hi JonJon,
I'm going to take a bit different tact than what you've been offered so far. In regards to meditation, regardless of the type, when the bliss arises I find it best to abandon my initial object of meditation, and to take up the bliss as the new object. By doing so, the bliss just deepens and eventually gives way to a new, more profound level of Samadhi (meditative absorption).
Peace,
Nirodha
A lot of the feelings of bliss and warmth I experience seem to arise after my meditation session has finished, but I will definitely bear this advice in mind. I finished meditating at about 8:30 this morning, and since then (it's now 2:30) I have been having these warm rushes, and feelings of ecstasy. Hasn't been too distracting today. |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2007 : 10:26:26 AM
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Nirodha said:
I'm going to take a bit different tact than what you've been offered so far. In regards to meditation, regardless of the type, when the bliss arises I find it best to abandon my initial object of meditation, and to take up the bliss as the new object. By doing so, the bliss just deepens and eventually gives way to a new, more profound level of Samadhi (meditative absorption).
Not saying that Nirodha's approach is wrong, but it could be good to have clarified for readers here, and for those who practice AYP deep meditation, that in AYP it is taught that during the meditation itself, we do not abandon the initial object of meditation, which is the mantra, regardless of anything else that arises in the field of awareness, including bliss. We treat bliss as "scenery", or as an effect of purification, rather than a cause of it. So, we come back to the mantra whenever we become aware that we are off of it. The mantra can become very subtle or faint or fuzzy, but it is not dropped deliberately.
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Nirodha
New Zealand
86 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2007 : 11:46:32 AM
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Hi weaver,
The approach I just offered to JonJon was to allow him to enter Samadhi (meditative absorption), or to allow him to move into a deeper level of Samadhi, if he is already reaching it. Bliss is one of the factors of meditative absorption, and the easiest one for most people to recognize.
I'm in the process of writing an essay on how to attain and identify Samadhi, that I'll post relatively soon.
I agree with you, however, that one doesn't just abandon one's initial object of meditation for any old thing that might arise in the sense fields. But, that's not what I was saying in the first place.
Quite frankly, your response has made me rather curious as to what AYP's view of Samadhi might be. I think I'll go scan it's library. I'm, also, rather curious about your views on Samadhi. So, if you'd care to expound them, I'd appreciate it.
Peace,
Nirodha |
Edited by - Nirodha on May 11 2007 1:33:29 PM |
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This is better than drugs...
