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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
 Posted - May 07 2007 : 10:41:10 AM
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I'm not sure if this is going to be a question, so I will just vent my feelings on this issue and hope for some sort of wisdom, proverb, or motivating words.
My issue is working. Now, before everyone assumes I am simply lazy, I need to clear up why working is causing my distress.
I am 19 and starting school for Massage Therapy which hopefully I will be done in two years. Until then, being that I don't come from a rich family, I have to work menial jobs. I just got a job as a busboy in a popular restaurant and I enjoyed it the first day until I got those familiar feelings of anxiety, depression, and feeling like I am trapped somehow. My problem with working is more existential I believe than anything else. I try to go to work with a positive attitude and try to sell myself on the idea that the world is obviously a communal place and everyone needs to pitch in and perform tasks for eachother to specialize labor for the greater good...but then I'll have this moment of existential angst and I'll see the whole "system" illuminated in which it's really about money. You cannot count on a Doctor to heal simply for karma, nor can you trust in a waiter to serve your food without wanting a paycheck. Obviously we as a people have so intrenched ourselves in the monetary system that there is no concievable way out, however, I have never been able to adjust to this system. I do not care about money, I find no satisfaction in recieving a paycheck, and I'm not too big on material goods.
My bigger issue is time. When I think that I have to give away X number of waking days of my week I feel a sadness in my heart. I feel that the system works in this equation -
X=days of your life
Y=working days
Z=money, material posessions, "success", ect
X-Y=Z
But I don't care about Z.
When the day comes that I get my certification and I find a job that I can honestly feel good about - helping others physically, mentally, and spiritually, I will be at peace I think. I understand everyone needs to work to make the material world go around...but I can hardly tolorate the depression this is causing me. I have tried to find jobs that are more of a humanitarian nature...but I have no luck.
Anyway, I hope people understand this because it is very hard for me to communicate so complex a feeling without someone assuming I just don't want to work. |
Edited by - anthony574 on May 07 2007 10:42:55 AM |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2007 : 11:41:57 AM
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Hi anthony574. As long as you have to make a living you may as well practice at work. Every action in the world however menial or however grand is your karma yoga. There are good challenges for staying centered and experiencing "stillness in action" while you clear the dishes and interact with others. It's possible that you could find yourself working as a massage therapist in the near future and asking yourself the same questions. Planning for greener grass and better jobs is a positive thing, but dwelling on feeling stuck and wanting something better takes the joy out of the moment you are in. It may be that you can live very sparsely and need not work a full week to be able to carefully survive. I see many people supporting cars and fancy lunches (they add up) and working for these things when they could bike and bag a lunch and watch their spending so they can have more time to sit by the river and meditate. I have had to struggle with these things too for many years and it is challenging. I am still a skilled laborer at 45 and it is tough when I am working full time to exhaust my body with all of those hours at work and have very little energy for myself and my loved ones. Just remember, having children changes everything. It really narrows your options of free choice for anything, at least that is my experience since I was 19 (my oldest is 25 and my youngest is 9, and then come grand-kids). Kids are divine gems, and karma yoga with them is intense and can be rewarding, but be careful and make sure it is something you want to do if you still have that choice.
Peace, and have fun!
Alan |
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Blue Opal
33 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2007 : 12:05:33 PM
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I think you need to redefine your concept of money.
Money is energy. It is a function of your skills and effort. If you don't like your current job, think of it as a step towards creating future good karma. Mother Teresa once said, "We can do no great acts, only small acts, with great love."
Money is the prime measure of a person's contribution to society. It is more efficient than the barter system. The structural inefficiencies and weaknesses in the current monetary system are a reflection of man's level of cognitive and moral development.
What is the worth of a menial job? Imagine a world in which everybody invests all their time and energy in doing great things that get noticed. Imagine a world in which there are no jobs that require the least amount of skill relative to other jobs in the market. Gradually, all jobs would become redundant.
Now imagine a world in which there is no measure of value or medium of exchange. How would you measure your contribution to society against that of others?
"So you think that money is the root of all evil? Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?" Ayn Rand
A rich man's son won't be able to generate new money unless he contributes an equal amount of value to his job or business.
Money exists because no individual is self-sufficient and it acts as a tool to facilitate the fair exchange of good and services that have real value.
I challenge you to propose a better and more efficient measure and store of value. |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2007 : 12:10:03 PM
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Hi Anthony,
All too soon many of us look on money as an evil in this world rather than a necessity for survival.It is simply an exchange and I suggest this is how you look at it.Remember money only came into being to simplify the bartering system that was in place long ago.Somebody who wanted a cow or a pig would have to find someone with them and have the appropriate exchange that was wanted as payment.If this had been something large and difficult to transport then obviously things became complicated.Money simply became more convenient to carry.If you look at the healing community,some believe an energy exchange is necessary which is not always money but can be service,energy or another way of exchange. Your service to others at work is given an exchange with money, possibly a smile or a kind word.
L&L
Dave |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2007 : 12:18:52 PM
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But on a higher level, I feel as though people should just do the things without expecting something in return - i.e. money...which of course equals ultimately some sort of materialistic possession. Naturally no one can start doing that because you would be "poor"...so it's a vicious cycle in my opinon.
And it's not so much on the nature of money because I will always disagree with people who think it is necessary and not progressive of an organism to move away from it. It's moreso on how I feel working detracts from my emotions and centering. My meditation practices have "sucked" ever since this job. I feel very uncentered and my mind is always racing whether I'm working or not. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2007 : 1:22:09 PM
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Perhaps some people have slower minds than others? What you think is a monkey mind might be normal. And whenever you try to stop thinking, you cannot because the moment you try, you have just thought about it. Why not accept that the function of the mind is to produce change continuously? You might find that those "changes" affect you less.
People who do not want to work are shirkers. Working has nothing to do with meditation and an easy life. In fact, the whole purpose of meditation is to assist you to learning pratyahara in everyday life. There is no other way of maintaining peace in the midst of activity.
Nobody really wants to do something they dont want to. Generally, this is called work. EVen though there are people who want to work. But work doesn't consist of something you need or want. It is something you HAVE to do. Analyse yourself - how can it be that you have all you need in terms of food and shelter and yet you seem to not want to earn those things? That is the part i do not understand. Are you on social security benefit money? That is the worst position to be in. If you know you dont have to work to have those basic needs met, you will never work. And even though you said you don't care for money, you failed to say that money is not bad in itself. Rich people do not need to be Hitlers.
Do you want to work or not? |
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Blue Opal
33 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2007 : 1:59:26 PM
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That begs the question: once you find work as a therapist, would you feel guilty charging a fee for your services? Unless you change your current attitude towards money, you will be constantly sending out strong negative vibes to your patients.
You don't need qualifications to do humanitarian work. I assume you were engaged in some sort of community service before you were forced to take up your menial job. If you were offered a job elsewhere, would you be willing to take the job, assuming that the pay is very good and the workload commensurate with your skills and interests?
If you feel your distaste for money is affecting your ability to lead a happy life, then maybe you should seek help before it's too late.
"My meditation practices have "sucked" ever since this job." - Anthony
There are a variety of factors that can influence your level of job satisfaction, some of which are as follows.
- level of pay
- quality of working life
- social relationships on the job
- variety of tasks involved
- the challenge it creates
You'd be surprised to know that more money is not necessarily what people want from their jobs. According to the equity theory, an employee will consider that he is treated fairly if he perceives the ratio of his inputs to his outcomes to be equivalent to those around him both within and outside the organisation. If you and another person with similar skills and experience got different wages for the same work, would you both be unhappy about it? The answer is yes.
I don't know what your interests are, but you might consider joining a paid volunteer programme in your area. |
Edited by - Blue Opal on May 07 2007 2:42:03 PM |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2007 : 2:25:26 PM
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Anthony said:
Obviously we as a people have so intrenched ourselves in the monetary system that there is no concievable way out
Blue Opal said:
Money is energy. It is a function of your skills and effort.
It is more efficient than the barter system.
Money is a tool of exchange.
I also agree that money is the best way currently devised in our society as a tool of exchange and to pay people formally for their services and work. There is nothing wrong with money in itself. I think what Anthony intended to convey with his statement about money is that we as a people tend to become too attached to money. Too much attachment to money causes decisions to be made for the purpose of making as much money as possible to take over, while other considerations may be neglected, for example, what would be of most benefit to all involved. Any attachment makes it harder to see the whole picture.
Anthony, I think it could be helpful if you would see money just as something that is, that is used right now in society, and to participate in society it's probably best to be part of the money system, and use it fairly. People expect to pay with money for worldly goods and services, so therefore it's right of you to receive payment as well. Yes, people may be too attached to money, but you don't have to, you can participate anyway. Remember, negative feelings against something is an attachment as well, so you may want to eliminate that too.
Good luck with finding the right job!  |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - May 07 2007 : 4:47:20 PM
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I think the problem I have when I really think about it is the dissatisfaction aspect. I have always been raised on the idea that you should never work a job that makes you unhappy. I suppose my standards for job happiness are pretty high...but I don't think that is a bad thing. The idea that "work is work" "work is not supposed to be fun", blah blah blah...I just don't buy it. If you are to truly value every second of your life, why then shouldn't you try to have the best job you can? What a waste of 40+ hours, then.
I understand the theories on the monetary system...and I agree based on the fact that if it were removed society would crumble...but I still do not think it is what is in store for a society if it were progressing way into a good future. That's my opinion.
Assuming I cannot find a job that makes me feel better, I just try to think that it will all be worth it when one day I can do something truly rewarding. I suppose everyone has to toil at some point in there lives. |
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 05:50:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
Assuming I cannot find a job that makes me feel better, I just try to think that it will all be worth it when one day I can do something truly rewarding. I suppose everyone has to toil at some point in there lives.
Why settle for not finding a better job at any point of time? Even if you are not seeing it coming right now you can think of yourself as 'looking for it' rather than 'stuck without it.' And this is really the case because opportunities arise every single day. In case you have already tried all internship possibilites (in your case that would mean calling or visiting all physical therapy places or spa centers or gyms in your area, sending out 100 CVs etc) and keep following up on that on a rolling basis this is sure to wind up to something better than what you currently have. Have you talked to an HR consultant? In the local labour office you should have the possibility for a free consultation and also in case your school has a career center it is a great resource for you to use. There is no need to settle down for something you don't like at any point of time. |
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meenarashid
76 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 11:58:07 AM
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aum what is a menial job?
they all must get done right?
arent they all huge yet menial
kinda like people we are small yet so huge!
aum |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 12:06:50 PM
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| Yeah...but carrying dirty dishes to a dishwasher who deals drugs is menial. I don't care how you look at it. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 12:26:59 PM
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Yeah...but carrying dirty dishes to a dishwasher who deals drugs is menial. I don't care how you look at it.
Anthony, what exactly do you mean by a 'menial' job? Can you be specific? And how does the drug-dealing of the dishwasher make it more 'menial'?
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meenarashid
76 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 12:34:52 PM
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aum Anthony!
maybe the menial ness is good for ego?
aum ( aaaahhhhhh yea i must remember this as i clean my husbands dirty dreawers off the floor & clean up doggy poop :) |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 12:51:31 PM
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| Maybe he means he works in a kitchen for a drug-dealing low life. |
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Blue Opal
33 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 1:02:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by anthony574
Yeah...but carrying dirty dishes to a dishwasher who deals drugs is menial. I don't care how you look at it.
I thought you liked drugs!!! Why blame the poor guy? It's because of people like him that you get to do drugs.
Now back to your problem. Persistence is the key ingredient in finding a job. Find out your strengths and goals, and then sell yourself on paper in as persistent a manner as possible. Try not to get nervous when you are interviewed. Be specific. Tell them what you want and why you think you're just right for the job. It might not be a bad idea to offer them your services for free for a couple of days. It works! If you are asked what you didn't like about your last job, try to frame your answer in a positive way. For instance, if you're being interviewed at a local orphanage you might say that helping in a kitchen doesn't make you feel that making a direct difference in someone's life. Say that you wouldn't mind doing odd jobs at their orphanage and that you'd be willing to play with the children and help them with their homework. I hope you're getting my point. There is a lot you can do to come across a positive person. There are many job seeker forums where you can find more information. Good luck on your job search!
Oh and I wanted to say that there was a time I used to feel guilty about eating any sort of food.... I longed for the ability to live off sunlight, but gradually I realised I was being foolish and changed my attitude to food. Money is like food. There is something "evil" in it, but you've got to learn to live with it. When I'm in a beautiful natural setting, I do not feel sorry for the grass under my feet. |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 1:15:19 PM
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Blue Opal said:
There is something "evil" in it, but you've got to learn to live with it.
There is perhaps something even more evil in that tendancy to see money as evil. That actual tendancy can be eliminated, but money can not.
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 1:17:17 PM
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| Anthony - I totally relate to your dissatisfaction in working a pointless job, and particularly one in which the pay is lousy. If your job is completely depressing you and your meditation is suffering as a result, I'd suggest listening to that. If your inner voice is saying, No, no, no, then find another job. It may be as inane as your current one, but there may be some element that makes it more tolerable for you. But before you quit, you might reconsider your job situation. Is there any chance that you've overlooked some benefits of being right where you are? Are you sure that you're in the wrong work environment? If so, then find another job. I agree with you that it's a mistake to settle for something that's making you depressed. The Puritan work ethic almost insists that you be unhappy with what you do for a living. But the Inner Silence work ethic won't allow you to be miserable...it forces you into a better situation. The kind of jobs that you're going to be doing until you're certified as a massage therapist are probably going to be uninspiring, but there's no need to be miserable. |
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meenarashid
76 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 1:39:31 PM
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*Why blame the poor guy? It's because of people like him that you get to do drugs.*
Snort Laugh
i really enjoy your sense of humor blue opal:)
aum |
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Blue Opal
33 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 2:15:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
Blue Opal said:
There is something "evil" in it, but you've got to learn to live with it.
There is perhaps something even more evil in that tendancy to see money as evil. That actual tendancy can be eliminated, but money can not.
I don't believe that money is evil, and that is why I put that word in quotes.
quote:
Originally posted by meenarashid
Snort Laugh
i really enjoy your sense of humor blue opal:)
aum
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 2:51:32 PM
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| Can you please stop using my thread for inappropriate and hurtful ridicule that has nothing to do with the topic, please? |
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meenarashid
76 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 4:12:41 PM
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woa im sorry if i came off that way Anthony am sorry was not intended
much love
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sadhak
India
604 Posts |
Posted - May 08 2007 : 10:02:00 PM
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Hi Anthony,
All the angst that comes to you when you begin meditation is also a lot of stuff 'coming out'. So hope you are self pacing and not overdoing the practices.
Depression may stem from elsewhere, and depending on how you are thinking and where you are, you will attribute it to something or the other (in this case, work that you think is all hitched on the 'monetory system'). As you yourself might realise, and the others have pointed out, there's nothing bad about the system. Sure, the way somebody's been using it might have made you feel the way you are.
But you might understandably not relish advice just now. So let's look at it this way: You can't change your environment just now... why not change how you are reacting to it, temporarily, for fun? Think of some additional service you can give the travellers for which you're not being paid... maybe help with their stuff, maybe smiles, maybe a song (unless of course you sing as bad as I do ).
I remember a traffic policeman at a juncture where there was no signal, who had to do his job in the hot Indian sun, lots of vehicular pollution, and terrible dry dust. But he'd invented a way showing hand signs that looked like he was doing a dance. He made us all smile in those awful traffic jams, and we used to go out of our way to pass that crossroad just to see him. The others must've felt the same way because after some months he was shifted to a cleaner, VIP area, and after some years he made news and was given an award at a Republic day function for the way he performed his work. I remember thinking that this guy must have had some spiritual strength! He inspired me, and hope he does something for you too.
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Edited by - sadhak on May 08 2007 10:04:02 PM |
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anthony574
USA
549 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2007 : 10:26:10 PM
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There is a lot to be said about those who can perform the lowliest of tasks with a smile. I believe those people to be enlightened in their own way.
I think I will never enjoy having to give away my cherished free time of playing a bamboo flute while sitting in the grass under the sunshine...but I suppose one must make the most of the free time available for the time being, |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2007 : 11:28:07 PM
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| Maybe when we become free of time then our never-ending discovery of the moment will be our free time. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 08:34:48 AM
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Here's another angle: Whenever we have unlimited access to something, it loses its value. Our lives have value because we only have X number of years to live. Time only has value when it has limitations. When we have all day, every day to do whatever we want to do, time quickly loses its value. I've known a number of trust fund kids in my life, and they always seem to be lost in their lack of structure, or at least not any happier than I. Think of a river flowing within the structure of its banks. Without the imposed limitations, the water would run all over the place, without any clear direction. Having the imposed structure of a job gives the rest of our time value. The trick is to find work that is satisfying and meaningful, so that you don't feel that you're wasting it, and then your free time is that much more rewarding.
Anthony - I too have a lot of respect for those who can find meaning in what the rest of us consider to be lowly tasks. They're often considered to be of a lower intelligence, but in fact they may know more than the rest of us. ::)) |
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