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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
 Posted - May 09 2007 : 2:46:14 PM
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Thank you Gumpi for raising some interesting points and sharing your insights while visiting this forum. I hope you feel free to return if you wish and share what you find with the rest of us seekers.
I wish you success in whatever path you choose.
Alan |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2007 : 3:01:09 PM
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David, i believe the term "spastic" is derogatory. It is actually "spasticated".
Spastic is the adjectival form of 'spasm', and there is nothing derogatory about it in itself. I would use 'spasticated', but that will be derogatory in a few years in the UK too.
Did you know that the words 'idiot', 'moron' and 'retarded' were once totally inoffensive professional terms? And that 'special needs' will be a very offensive term when enough years have passed? The process of using 'special needs' offensively has already started....
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2007 : 3:58:06 PM
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Hi gumpi,
may be you are not reading this anymore,
but anyway here I go with the intention to be friendly
and openly communicative:
quote:
Originally posted by gumpi
I already asked, "why do millions of meditators not experience them then?" to which i got no reply.
Why are millions of meditators actually experiencing them ?
If somebody says to you (or to me) that they feel/experience something,
how would they be able to prove to you (or to me) that they actually
experienced something and how much more it is difficult for them
to explain clearly what they experienced.
What is truth ? Is it true that I am typing these words ?
I think we agree that it is true that i typed these words.
However, how this truth is perceived will differ by each person.
It doesn't matter what name we give to chakras and stuff like that.
What matters is: do we believe that people experienced something
unusual/unscientific (scientifically not yet measurable) ?
May be the yogi-path is not for you, may be you need to go
another path and may be it is good for you to go another path.
You need to decide and deeply reflect.
And that effort of reflection will be counted for you.
Please don't take this as preaching from me to you.
If some of my words resonate within you, then take them,
if all is rubbish for you, that's ok too.
Take care |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2007 : 4:18:55 PM
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quote:
Not thinking is related to "being in the moment" you hear so much about.
Ah! This was one of my major misconceptions! I thought "being here and now" was about focusing on the current situation. If I was eating dinner with my family, I shouldn't be off in my mind somewhere else, planning the weekend or worrying about work. Boy... I thought it meant being present and listen to the person I talked to etc etc etc. I thought "now" was defined as "The ongoing current situation" and could last from a few hours to some minutes. That is typcial of how "being in the moment" is described in magazines for better health, coaching or the like.
It was not until someone told me that one second ago isn't now. One second ahead in the future (for example knowing that the person will probably say another sentence after this one) isn't now. Not even one nanosecond ago or ahead is now. That's when I started to understand what "being in the moment" really meant - that now is a place of no-mind, no past and no future, no like, dislike or any judgement and so on!!! And not until that coin had dropped could I start to experience it.
One explanation for why some meditators do not experience anything might be that their nervous systems aren't ready for it yet. What determines our "readiness" can only have a spiritual explanation - past lives and karma. But this explanation will not be accepted by a scientist since it is a circular one building on the unproven theory. Hopeless probably to convince anyone with that argument. That is perhaps why you don't get so many answers to that question... At least not from me!   |
Edited by - emc on May 09 2007 4:26:33 PM |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2007 : 5:43:50 PM
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Interesting EMC.
Yes, the reason some meditators seem to get no results is their nervous systems are not ready. . . yet. What is a shame is that many of them have made tremendous progress but it is not perceptable in the way they expect. They get impatient and want a certain result in a certain amount of time. Meditation causes inner purification even when results are not yet apparent.
Usually they are not practicing consistently, or not for the full time allotted, or not with their full attention, which would include "substance-distractions". It doesn't really require your belief, but it does require your desire. if you want something badly enough, you will not give up. You will continue to try even though others fail, and you will WANT to believe even if you don't believe.
But most importantly, you will give up on looking for results, and settle in for the long haul. With this attitude, any meditator who even casually "gives it all he's got" with consistency and perseverance, will notice results that make it definitely worth while, even though they may not yet be the advertised miraculous ones.
Another dynamic I've been working on personally that also may apply here is realizing you are doing it completely by yourself, taking full responsibility, and NONE of it comes from anyone or anything outside yourself.
I thought I already answered Gumpi's question before when I mentioned happiness. If a lot of depressed people cannot achieve happiness does it mean it doesn't exist? There are people starving to death; does that mean there's no such thing as food?
Only when you give up can you truly say "It didn't work for me." But then your results are based upon your decision to give up, not any deficiency of meditation. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 09:40:01 AM
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I'm back already!
As i have mentioned before, i suffer from a mental illness which interrupts my thinking processes. Lately i have been reading a lot of skeptical and atheist material and i have become a nasty person. I feel miserable when i deny God. Because i have had experiences from God that i cannot deny are real. Every time i try to explain them by using alternative explanations i fail.
Today, i felt cold and warm sensations in my spine. I feel them now. I haven't done much kriya yoga in my life but i am guessing that this is a gift to me. God works in mysterious ways, as they say.
I feel a definite affinity with Paramahansa Yogananda. I am quite convinced he is important to me.
I mentioned before an experience i had once with the spiritual eye. Nobody seemed to confirm what i said, but in one of Yogananda's books he describes what happens before the eye opens, and this correllated with my experience exactly. So i do think chakras are real.
I don't want to spam this forum, so i am taking a break from all internet activity. There are a lot of negative things on the internet which i am particularly prone to. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2007 : 12:29:25 PM
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Gumpi, why don't you subscribe to SRF lessons by mail?
They are very cheap, and full of Yogananda's teachings.
For me, SRF meditation and practices were much more difficult than AYP, but if you believe you won't get results here, it couldn't hurt to try something else.
Since bhakti is of utmost importance, your affinity for Yogananda may make a big difference. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 07:10:53 AM
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Etherfish, you found the SRF lessons quite hard. So you do AYP practices now. I want to ask, do you feel a connection with Yogananda? I mean, do you consider him to be your guru? If so, do you not think it would have been in your highest interest to take his teachings as they are? What are your thoughts on this?
I am realizing that the reason the ethical codes are put first in Patanjali's yoga sutras is because when we don't follow them we are acting from the ego, and not for God. When i smoke cigarettes, i am effectively blaspheming because i am destroying the body God created for me and insulting the intelligence therein. Somehow or another, fighting the habits and desires we have as body identified beings (or egos) and trying to be non-attached is actually bringing us closer to knowing of God because "God helps those who help themselves". And strangely enough, the yoga sutras start with "Now the science of yoga". The "now" part means that we are fed up with this world and its sufferings and want to know God. We have to suffer greatly and then God will come.
I actually have the SRF lessons (i got them illegitimally through the internet from someone). I would subscribe through SRF but since i have the lessons anyway i see little point. I think intentions open grace and not necessarily signing that piece of paper etc.
Funny, i saw a clip on Youtube of a hatha yogi who made water come from his stomach with the use of a tube he inserted down his throat. Try as i might, i cannot explain that except by wondering that he must have control over the life force in his body. It is actually quite encouraging, despite my lack of experience with "life-force". |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 10:17:10 AM
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When i smoke cigarettes, i am effectively blaspheming because i am destroying the body God created for me and insulting the intelligence therein. Somehow or another, fighting the habits and desires we have as body identified beings (or egos) and trying to be non-attached is actually bringing us closer to knowing of God because "God helps those who help themselves".
Hi Gumpi,
I hope you don't mind if I insert some comments on what came to mind about what you wrote. 
Yes, if you have the knowledge that cigarettes are harmful, then that (blaspheming) is a way the act of smoking can be seen in relation to God. I also agree that following ethical codes is important for spiritual progress. In Yoga this part of spiritual practices is called Yamas and Niyamas. In AYP the general approach is to not try to force ourselves to follow ethical codes, but rather purify the nervous system with meditation and other practices so that our attachments dissolve and the tendencies to not follow ethical codes dissolve by themselves. There is of course no harm done in making an effort to follow ethical codes, as long as it's done in a balanced way, but it's usually more effective to remove (by purification) the underlying causes of our attachments than just trying to remove them forcefully by the human will. And, I totally agree that "God helps those who help themselves".
We have to suffer greatly and then God will come.
I think this can be true or not, depending on what we identify ourselves with. If we identify ourselves with the ego and its attachments, yes, then we have to suffer when they are removed, because we can not bring them with us to God. However, if we by methods of purification dissolve the ego and its attachments, and we gradually identify ourselves with God and His attributes, then the spiritual path does not have to be associated with suffering in general, but will rather be a path of joy and a natural flowering of everything that is divine. |
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gumpi
United Kingdom
546 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 10:25:38 AM
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| i didn't mean that suffering is neccesary to know God. All i meant was that it takes the realization of suffering before we turn to God. There are probably exceptions. |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2007 : 11:01:28 AM
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gumpi wrote:
quote:
"Etherfish, you found the SRF lessons quite hard. So you do AYP practices now. I want to ask, do you feel a connection with Yogananda? I mean, do you consider him to be your guru? If so, do you not think it would have been in your highest interest to take his teachings as they are? What are your thoughts on this?"
It wasn't the lessons I found hard from SRF; it was keeping up their time consuming practices twice a day. During the time when I did them, yes I felt a connection with Yogananda. But I felt a stronger connection directly with God inside myself from doing the meditation. So I wasn't concerned with loyalty because I felt that direct connection was not dependent on other people, living or dead. I did accept Yogananda as my guru at the time. Now i have no guru, and I don't feel like I am missing anything.
When I tried AYP practices it strengthened that inner connection greatly. I still believe Yogananda's teachings are very good, but I don't follow his practices.
If you feel an affinity for Yogananda, then it may be different for you. |
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God is perfectly evil
