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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
 Posted - May 01 2007 : 08:16:04 AM
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Something happened a few days ago which is still bothering me, and I'd appreciate some honest feedback. Due to an unfortunate oversight on my part, an acquaintance was extremely inconvenienced. I did a rotten thing, and I should have realized it at the time, but I was so absorbed in what I was doing that I didn't see what I had done until much later, when she called to tell me. Please understand that I'm not talking about any kind of physical injury or emotional scars, and no danger was involved - I simply created a mess and a hassle for the other person, who is not a close friend.
Okay, so here's the issue. I apologized sincerely, without making any excuses, and let her know that I was profoundly sorry for my neglect. Her response was that she will never, ever forgive me. Period. I left a message and sent an email. I offered twice to make amends (which would cost me around $50) but she insists that she will not accept any offers, and I am not forgiven, now or ever. I don't expect that we'll ever speak again, as we live many miles apart, and ours was more or less a business relationship. Ironically, I've done her a number of huge favors during the past month, but she doesn't acknowledge that.
So....what does one do when the other party will not forgive? I feel terrible about this, but it was truly a stupid mistake. I've been meditating and sitting with my discomfort, which so far isn't budging. Another issue is that she will clearly suffer more than I by refusing to forgive me, because my thick remorse will only last so long. Still, I hate that someone's holding a major grudge against me, and really want to make amends. So....any insights, anyone? Has anyone else ever been unforgiven?
(I'm placing this post under the 'ethical conduct' theme...it seems appropriate). |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2007 : 09:04:38 AM
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What a naked and honest post, meg. It is truly awesome to read and I admire your frankness.
I have also had a friend who broke contact with me because of a bad thing I did.
The way I see it is that your bad feelings has got nothing to do with the other person. The feeling you have is solely stemming from your underlying preconceptions about the world and yourself. How things SHOULD be or how you SHOULD be. You shouldn't have done that, you shouldn't have people getting angry at you. You shouldn't mess things up for others and if you do and say you're sorry, people SHOULD forgive you. People SHOULD always like you.
Well... how is life? Life is not that way, is it? If you can accept that this happened exactly the way it did, and see that you couldn't have done anything else than what you did and your friend is responding in exactly the way she is because she has her feelings - what is there to feel bad about? You are resisting life and what is happening. That brings bad feelings.
Leave her business to her, don't hope for forgiveness. You don't need hers. You need your own forgiveness and it comes from seeing that you could not have done anything else (since you obviously didn't) and that you did your best to make amends. If you can accept and take responsability for your own conduct and satisfy with that you will eventually forgive yourself. And then you are in peace with yourself. The world does not fall apart because someone is angry at you. That is life. What you can do is only to learn from the lesson, thank life for it, thank her for being such a great teacher and try to remember in for the future. 
You are great, you are perfect, and you live your life in a brilliant way!  |
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Sparkle
Ireland
1457 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2007 : 09:19:41 AM
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Hi Meg
To greatest gift we can give to anyone is to accept them fully for what they are, perfect in the moment as they are, in their transition from moment to moment, from perfection to perfection, and each perfect moment different and unique.
The opposite of this is unforgiveness.
It sounds like she wants to punish you by not letting you off the hook. I suppose where this gets nasty is if bad mouthing starts which can endanger your reputation, especially in business.
So is this a case of protecting the status quo?, or is it a case of you forgiving her for not forgiving you?
You asked if anyone had any experience of this. Yes all the time, but generally in smaller doses.
Isn't it the great thing about inner silence and being in the witness state, we can look at all this going by and not be caught by it. It's when we and others become immersed in our issues without the perspective of inner silence that unforgiveness occurs.
my 2 cents
Louis |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2007 : 09:28:58 AM
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Hi Meg,
Yes, it feels bad to have (unintentionally) been the cause of wronging somebody else, especially when they will not forgive it. If she suffered some economic damage because of it then it could be appropriate to just send her check as compensation even if she says she doesn't want it. It is customary in our society to do so as a matter of fact even if they don't ask for it. She can then choose to cash it or not. If she refuses to take the compensation and instead chooses to not forgive you, even if you are willing to make amends in any way possible, and in the face of you having sincerely expressed how sorry you are, is an act of aggression on her part. The grudge against you is something she chooses to hold on to, and you are not in control of that. We can only do so much, then others will have their free will. It feels bad when someone holds a grudge against us, but that is bound to happen once in a while in life. While still on earth, nobody is perfect and will sometimes make mistakes, and they must be forgiven so one can move on. She has to do so to move on spiritually, and it will be up to you as well to surrender or let go of the sense of having wronged her, after you have done what you can to make it up. If you feel inclined you can pray to God to make it right karmically between the 2 of you. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2007 : 8:14:40 PM
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Hi Meg,
Whenever I make a mistake, I say to myself, "yes I screwed up, I resolve to handle it differently the next time something like it comes up". The end, I let it go, what more can I truly do? Beating myself up about it certainly doesn't change any thing and I have already promised myself to change for the next time, so what more can I ask?
Now the person's reaction, as EMC points out so well, is her choice and hence her issue (problem) which she creates for herself. She is living in her own world, with her own perceptions which you can't affect. It is her dream of life and in it she wants to ‘villainize’ you and not forgive, this is her choice and she will unfortunately suffer as a result of her choices. If you were in her shoes, wouldn't you most certainly forgive you?
quote:
So....what does one do when the other party will not forgive?
One lets them not forgive you (after due diligence which you have already exercised)and moves on aware that you have handled things as responsibly as you could and learned from your errors. Sometimes waiting for some time to pass, perhaps a month or two and then trying one more time to make amends, finds the person more receptive to your apology.
quote:
I feel terrible about this, but it was truly a stupid mistake. I've been meditating and sitting with my discomfort, which so far isn't budging.
I have to admit to not being a huge fan of simply being with my negative feelings when they are intense. I do it, but I find it far more effective to ask myself why exactly I feel bad, and then to see if my answers are true. In other words, I prefer self-inquiry in these situations as acceptance comes much more quickly.
quote:
Still, I hate that someone's holding a major grudge against me, and really want to make amends. So....any insights, anyone?
This is ripe for self-inquiry, why do you hate it so much, what does it mean to you when a person doesn't like you or holds a grudge? Are your conclusions true?
quote:
Has anyone else ever been unforgiven?
I am sure I have, but I can't remember. I have gone through a situation recently where someone views something I did or said in a way that just isn't true for me. It was definitely hard for me to accept that they are going to have their story about me no matter what I do or say, I have to just accept it, I know the truth in my heart and that is enough.
A
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 01 2007 : 11:27:11 PM
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OK. I don't have all the info, so this could be wrong. But it sounds to me that she's just trying to punish. Sounds like she's being a baby. Not very nice.
After she showed no willingness to forgive I would just have said something like -- "I'm sorry to hear that - it would have been good for you", and be on my blithe and merry way. If a person is out to punish, I'm uninclined to allow them to succeed -- or to think they have. If I do, I feel I'm being an enabler.
She's probably hoping to suck in all the drama of someone suffering through desparately seeking her forgiveness. In a case like that, the less drama you supply, the better. If that kind of thing is less fun for her, she'd be less likely to try that on the next sucker.
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2007 : 05:45:27 AM
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Hi Meg
quote:
I did a rotten thing
Are you sure?
If you were immersed in some activity, and overlooked some consequences of not being widely alert - then it seems obvious that your intention was not at all to harm anyone? This is important. It was not your motive to harm her.
quote:
she insists that she will not accept any offers, and I am not forgiven, now or ever
It is the finality in this statement that bothers you, Meg. As if you are permanently "cut off" .......
The result being that you are left with a feeling as if something within you is beyond repair. This feeling is triggered by all the social conventions (including our mental concepts) that surrounds us in our life situations. What is expected; what is morally right etc
So it really comes down to whether you can forgive yourself or not. You don't need her forgiveness in order to accept yourself as you are, Meg. Through acceptance of all that happens in this situation - including the fact that her refusal to forgive you (which is a rejection) hurts you - you'll relax enough to see that you don't have to keep rejecting yourself. See that you have done so (I always cry at this stage) and then.......you are reconnected. The feeling of being "cut off" will vanish then.
quote:
So....what does one do when the other party will not forgive?
You forgive yourself. Through this, she too is forgiven. |
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Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2007 : 11:41:47 AM
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Wow - thanks for the great insights, everyone. You've given me some great material to work with. I've avoided indulging in the story of it, but I'm calling it The Kitty Litter Debacle of '07.
Andrew hit the nail on the head with self-inquiry - my tendency toward co-dependency pushed me toward seeking forgiveness and approval from outside myself. And Katrine, you're right - if I didn't act with intention, then it wasn't a rotten thing, it was just a mistake. Weaver - I can't send her the $$ because I don't have an address, but I did take your advice and made some amends yesterday without her permission, which allowed me to let go of the residual bad feelings and forgive myself. After I did that, there was an internal shift, as I knew that I'd done all that I could to rectify the situation. The fact that she hasn't responded is now a reflection of her internal state, and has nothing to do with me.
David - total agreement - her need to be the victim is clear, but in order for that to happen, she needs me to feel guilty, and I'm not complying with that. I'm denying her the drama she feels entitled to. But I have to be careful here, as I could easily turn the situation around and become the victim myself. I need to forgive her for not forgiving me, otherwise I'm perpetuating the cycle of victimhood.
All this over a bunch of kitty litter. It's great, though. If I just wait long enough, with patience and trust, the inner silence does eventually emerge and take over. It's a matter of getting out of my head and moving the energy down into the heart. Thanks again for your insights/advice/compassion.
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jillatay
USA
206 Posts |
Posted - May 02 2007 : 1:06:11 PM
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Hi all,
I have had this happen and sorry to say there are some people that go around getting pi**ed off at friends and dumping them. It is my experience of 58 years and it is sad but true. I normally would take things like this very personally as if the other person were God and passing judgment on my very soul. But it just so happened that it happened to me and a close friend in the same week. I know that both of us had been very supportive of this friend but not willing to give her all the time and attention she wanted. Finding out later that she did this serially throughout her life made it easy to let go. Now I even still miss her and feel compassion for her self made suffering, but there is nothing more to do.
By the way, the Buddha speaks of the 8 mundane concerns, one of which is a good reputation. These things we crave but, because the conditions of life are inevitably unsatisfactory, we must wake up to the reality of our desire and then let it go. I find that real healing comes when something becomes a non-issue and you can barely remember the incident. I use EMDR to get some of this yucky residue out of my body.
Best wishes,
Jill |
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meenarashid
76 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2007 : 12:39:50 PM
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awwwwww meg sweety
you have done your part
ive experienced this as well
became really close with another yogini she was also my boss at the time
well i did something that upset her i personally didnt see it as a big deal but she did.. so then
i allowed my hot headed ness to tell her everything she did that I didnt like
afterward felt deep regret apologized over and over told her i loved her which i do
meditated on her.. everything
she still wants nothing to do with me
all i can do is learn from the mistake and move on and of course continue to send her love when i think of her..
good thing to come out of it not such a hot head now lost a dear friend cuz of it!
we are here to learn
aum M |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2007 : 1:06:42 PM
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Terrorist bombings and murder, genocide, managed famines, torture, rape, random killings for fun -- some of those who suffered under them have, in this life, found the ability to forgive the offenders. But kitty-litter negligence -- nay, that shall not be forgiven in this life, nor in the next.
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - May 03 2007 : 7:01:30 PM
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I am really late for this one.. good advice by all..
I am glad things have worked out for you Meg. |
Edited by - Shanti on May 03 2007 7:03:01 PM |
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Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - May 06 2007 : 5:32:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by meg
Another issue is that she will clearly suffer more than I by refusing to forgive me
One thing's for certain: you are not the first or only person on her never-forgive list. So whether this creates suffering for her or a perverse self-tragic joy, you surely don't rank as a top priority in her portfolio in any case. You're just one of the sand grains. |
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unforgiveness
