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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
 Posted - Apr 02 2007 : 10:40:48 AM
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Hi everyone,
I have a question.
A good friend of mine is experiencing problems with a severe kundalini awakening that started about 10 years ago. In the beginning she had the usual kundalini symptoms, but now it seems to have got way out of hand. She can't think straight, gets confused, suffers from depression, has energy in the head and behind the eyes causing migranes, etc...
She has been advised to practice a modified form of alternate nostril breathing where you close the right nostril and breathe in through the left, and then close the left and breath out through the right, continuing this with each in and out breath. So the inbreath is always activating the ida nadi. She was told to do this based on the theory that her symptoms are being caused by an overactive kundalini, producing heat in her body, and doing this practice will strengthen the ida nadi which is the cooling nerve current. So (presumably) this will cool down the energy, reduce the kundalini fire and solve her problems.
I am concerned that she will actually be making things worse through this practice.
Has anyone else heard of this or tried it? Does it work?
Hope someone can help.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Apr 02 2007 1:07:28 PM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2007 : 5:34:00 PM
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Your feelings are right, Christi - it will definitely make things worse. That's like being in a car and driving at full speed off the side of the road in an attempt to stop driving just because you're tired. It's much better to reach the destination in one piece and stop.
Stupid analogy, I know.
But I don't see how unnaturally imbalancing the subtle currents in the body can be good. Think about a pendulum...she will be swinging it to the ida side when she does this breathing technique, then when she stops it will swing way to the pingala side. The body doesn't just stop using one side and continue to function as normal. It needs to use both at different times and in different levels of intensity, to be normal.
It's best to leave breathing practices alone, and also the swaras. What your friend needs, in my opinion, is to get rid of the things which are causing the kundalini to be so overactive...the junk she is cleaning off of the windows of her soul. That takes time and surrendering. Also some insight, which isn't really something she can do anything about.
The more she fights it, the worse it will get. The best thing to do is stop all kinds of things which stimulate the kundalini and live peacefully and simply, but not lazily. You know...avoiding raja and tama, and cultivating sattva. Being in balance.
Seeing a psychiatrist may be good to break off the subtle things which are causing the depression. Self enquiry may be good for that reason as well.
I feel bad for your friend. I hope she finds her stillness. |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Apr 02 2007 : 7:00:17 PM
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Hi Christi:
I am not sure about the ida stimulation (reminds me of Gopi Krishna), but I am quite sure that effectively addressing a serious kundalini imbalance requires a range of measures applied at the same time -- no magic bullet.
Have you introduced her the to the measures in AYP lesson 69? http://www.aypsite.org/69.html
It is not that complicated, but does require some diligence and flexibility to work through it.
Some light spinal breathing is worth trying. It helps in many cases. I just got an email from someone last week who is having great success with spinal breathing after years of kundalini imbalance. I have received many such reports over the past few years. Spinal breathing helped me also to stabilize a serious kundalini imbalance many years ago, not to mention John Wilder's case. 
If spinal breathing doesn't help, just back off. It can't do any harm if undertaken gently.
Then there are the grounding methods -- walking, being outdoors, engaging with and helping other people, forgetting about our own spiritual condition for a while.
Finally, excess heat means a pitta imbalance (a common kundalini symptom) and ayurvedic methods can go a long way in aiding that, beginning with a pitta pacifiying diet. No Chilli Peppers...
What it takes is a combination of known effective methods, and time and patience. That is what lesson 69 is about. That is what all of AYP is about.
Kundalini excesses can always be labeled an "ida/pingala imbalance," and it doesn't mean anything, really, because the chances of manipulating the ida and pingala directly with any success are slim. That's like manipulating our chakras directly. Even if we could, it is like Scott says, how to know when it is too much one way or the other way. Gopi Krishna only did it because he didn't have any other way, and stumbled around for years beforehand. He finally got lucky after a dozen years of hanging out the window with kundalini -- a pretty uninformed approach.
It does not have to be like that in this day and age, if one is willing to take an integrated approach, and remain flexible in self-pacing the remedies, meaning not overdoing with anything. We know much more these days, and it can be done.
It goes without saying that daily sadhana engaged in over the period in question is suspect, since the symptoms have gotten worse. Once the situation has been stabilized, any practices considered for the future should be reviewed carefully. Developing good skills in self-pacing should be high up on the list also -- that can start right now in relation to anything that aggravates the condition.
I hope your friend finds some relief soon. Tell her she can find some good company here. Many here have been through it to one degree or other, and lived to tell the tale. Through our collective experiences we are getting smarter all the time and traveling on to much greater horizons, opening ourselves to abiding inner silence, ecstatic bliss and outpouring divine love.
The guru is in you.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2007 : 08:09:49 AM
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Hi Scott,
Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I am sure you are right about the problems involved with manipulating these specific nadis, after all, if it were that easy then everyone with a kundalini overload would be doing it.
Christi |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2007 : 08:56:01 AM
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Hi Yogani,
Thanks for the reply.
quote:
Have you introduced her the to the measures in AYP lesson 69? http://www.aypsite.org/69.html
It is not that complicated, but does require some diligence and flexibility to work through it.
Some light spinal breathing is worth trying. It helps in many cases. I just got an email from someone last week who is having great success with spinal breathing after years of kundalini imbalance. I have received many such reports over the past few years. Spinal breathing helped me also to stabilize a serious kundalini imbalance many years ago, not to mention John Wilder's case.
Yes... I printed out this discussion for her, and printed out the grounding lesson and the intro to spinal breathing from the main lessons. She pointed out that I was wrong about the timespan... it has been 18 years since her kundalini awakening.
She is trying the spinal breathing and has laid off meditation for a while at least.
Thanks again for your help.
Christi |
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2007 : 09:32:17 AM
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Hi Christi:
On the other hand, if it works, use it -- nadi manipulation, or whatever. And do let us know. If it doesn't work, better move on. We don't stand on ceremony here. We are just putting results above all else, and building a knowledge base so others can benefit.
18 years and still struggling with kundalini? The arrows point to the practices in use, and/or some really ornery karma. I'd bet on the former, since karma is pretty much a paper tiger when effective (and well integrated) practices are in use with good self-pacing. Of course, it takes clarity to implement a good routine of sadhana. If we get too far behind the curve with kundalini imbalances, it can become difficult. I have only seen a few cases like that (coming from outside AYP), where the experience itself begins to overide good judgment. That does not seem to be the case here. So, hopefully, some time-tested remedies will help turn the tide.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2007 : 11:18:15 AM
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Hi Christi,
Has your friend been doing the ida strengthening breathing already for a while and if so, has she noticed any alleviation of her symptoms?
I'd hesitate to do pranayama without meditation, how long is she doing of the former? she may want to be wary of doing more than 5 minutes of pranayama. Yogani, do you suggest doing only pranayama to alleviate symptoms like these?
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2007 : 12:47:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
I'd hesitate to do pranayama without meditation, how long is she doing of the former? she may want to be wary of doing more than 5 minutes of pranayama. Yogani, do you suggest doing only pranayama to alleviate symptoms like these?
Hi Andrew:
Only very light spinal breathing on a test basis for a few days or weeks (5 min or less per twice daily sitting starting out). If there is some relief, this does not mean more spinal breathing will be better right away. Aiming for a steady routine is much more important. If there is some energy stabilization, then we can add a short session of deep meditation right after spinal breathing, also on a test basis, and see if the two practices can be balanced, along with improvements in the inner energy situation. This is to be accompanied by lots of grounding activity, of course, and a pitta pacifying diet. Keep the practice routines short and get out and be busy in everyday living. If all of that can be stabilized, then there can be progress in the direction of stabilization and growth with more comfort and safety.
In cases where kundalini is raging, it is okay to start the practices in reverse order (usually we begin deep meditation before spinal breathing), as spinal breathing is the more energy stabilizing practice, and that is what we need first with everything being out of kilter. It is a hybrid approach for use in kundalini emergencies only, where the practitioner is coming from outside AYP and does not have sufficient energy stability to begin with deep meditation. The energies have to be dealt with first in this case. As mentioned, quite a few have come in this way and managed to get things stabilized.
Keep in mind that kundalini energies (and excesses -- which can be minimized with an effective approach, including self-pacing) are an interim step on the way to the merging of inner silence with ecstatic conductivity (shiva and shakti/kundalini). This is why deep meditation and spinal breathing are so important to utilize in a balanced way. Spinal breathing balances and expands the inner energies while deep meditation cultivates inner silence. As you know, we have many additional methods to work with on both sides of this equation. Deep meditation and spinal breathing pranayama are the core practices that should be stabilized first, before moving on to additional methods.
Under normal circumstance (here in AYP), we will have a good foundation in inner silence via deep meditation before we have awakened kundalini, and we are in much better shape then, with the witness present, which helps us tremendously to ride through any bumpy periods. The witness (our silent self) never feels the bumps, and we can remain steady even as any storms of energy that may come up are raging.
Honestly, we'd like to move beyond the energy stage (symptoms of purification) and into the abiding inner silence and ecstatic bliss/outpouring divine love stage. Kundalini excesses are a detour that we'd like to avoid. If we do end up in that, then we should reroute with the most effective means available as soon as possible. Better late than never!
The guru is in you.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2007 : 3:02:36 PM
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Hi Yogani,
Thanks for this helpful reply.
I have been introducing AYP to friends and family over the last while, so this topic is on my mind as I want to approach helping them to establish a good sitting routine and manage potential pitfalls in the best possible way. The theoretical explanations you provided above, are helpful for me to understand the dynamics of the process a little more clearly.
For the ones who are willing to read the lessons this is not an issue but for those who aren't going to, I want to help any way I can. As a whole I recommend Deep Meditation exclusively but on a couple of occasions, where the person in question is particularly clear, I have suggested that they start with 2 to 5 minutes of pranayama as well. Do you think this is a good idea? On one occasion, a friend of mine had an ongoing energy opening from just 1 week of only Deep Meditation, would it be prudent to recommend pranayama in this situation to help smooth things out? Or would just DM be sufficient? It is not an overload, but more of an energy awakening.
I hope you don't mind sharing your experience on this subject. I think there are a few of us here who may be in the same boat and we may be a little thin on practical insight into these matters.
thanks,
Anthem11
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yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2007 : 11:16:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
As a whole I recommend Deep Meditation exclusively but on a couple of occasions, where the person in question is particularly clear, I have suggested that they start with 2 to 5 minutes of pranayama as well. Do you think this is a good idea? On one occasion, a friend of mine had an ongoing energy opening from just 1 week of only Deep Meditation, would it be prudent to recommend pranayama in this situation to help smooth things out? Or would just DM be sufficient? It is not an overload, but more of an energy awakening.
I hope you don't mind sharing your experience on this subject. I think there are a few of us here who may be in the same boat and we may be a little thin on practical insight into these matters.
Hi Andrew:
That is great that you are helping folks get started. I recommend using the writings as much as possible for reference material, so those you expose can form their own relationship with the practices going forward.
I would not recommend starting anyone with two practices at the same time. If a person is clear and stable in deep meditation, that's great. Then it is they who should choose if and when they start spinal breathing. It is healthy if they have to make some effort to find out about the next steps. If the bhakti is there, they will.
If there is some energy right after beginning deep meditation, it would be better to stabilize deep meditation practice before moving into spinal breathing. In this case, spinal breathing would not be in the "curative" category and should be started when the person has stabilized deep meditation and has developed the urge to take the next step, like the lessons say.
Step by step -- this also applies to the hybrid situation discussed in this topic, where someone with a severe kundalini imbalance coming from outside AYP may try some light spinal breathing first. Deep meditation should not be undertaken until spinal breathing and the over all situation has been stabilized.
Some may wish to try deep meditation first in a severe kundalini situation. That is okay on a test basis, though the chances are less for it to calm a serious imbalance. But it could be tried instead of spinal breathing if the practiitioner is so inclined. But not both practices starting at the same time. That would be adding too many variables at the same time, for anyone ... it is the same for any practice we undertake on our journey. If we take on two or more practices at once, and symptoms of excess appear, how will we know what to self pace? It can get messy in a hurry.
The time delayed effect from practices we have discussed from time to time is another factor to consider. All the more reason to be conservative and take on practices one at at time months apart, rather than days or weeks apart, and never two or more at the same time. The guideline is: Always take the time necessary to stabilize one practice before moving on to the next one. Being sure that we have a stable routine is far more important than loading up with practices. That applies at all levels of practice from beginning to advanced.
I am aware of no further shortcuts on this -- not beyond the self-directed practice and self-pacing that AYP already offers, which is pretty fast. Beyond that it is the purification and opening each nervous sytem can withstand with safety. No one is better qualified to assess that than the well-educated individual practitioner.
Applied knowledge is the key. The AYP approach does not lend itself to spoon-feeding beyond an initial jump-start.
The guru is in you.
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 04 2007 : 11:54:22 PM
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Hi Yogani,
Thanks for this excellent reply, very helpful and really puts things into perspective.
As I was contemplating these topics today, I came to some of the same conclusions that you point to, that you can inspire people to try it out, but then you need to extricate yourself from the situation as soon as possible and encourage their own initiative and self responsibility with practices. I like how you point out that bhakti is self pacing in itself and that they will search for the next step when they are ready. This gives me greater perspective and understanding.
quote:
I recommend using the writings as much as possible for reference material, so those you expose can form their own relationship with the practices going forward.
This is particularly helpful too. I have to self-pace my enthusiasm for people to get into it and make progress!
thanks again,
Anthem11
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2007 : 07:59:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
On one occasion, a friend of mine had an ongoing energy opening from just 1 week of only Deep Meditation, would it be prudent to recommend pranayama in this situation to help smooth things out? Or would just DM be sufficient? It is not an overload, but more of an energy awakening.
Hi Andrew,
You could suggest nadi shodana pranayama (alternate nostril breathing) to him/her. The instructions and benefits of this are in the AYP book as an addition to lesson 41 (page 46). |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2007 : 10:26:33 AM
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Hi Shweta,
The only issue I could see with this would be that it would fall under adding 2 practices at the same time which Yogani cautions against. I think I am going to stick with providing them with the DM book and then suggesting if they are inspired to do more, to check out the website.
You are right though, it could be a good interim step to pranayama in some cases.
thanks
A
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Apr 05 2007 : 12:05:25 PM
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| In my experience, pranayama (especially alternate nostril) when in the midst of a kundalini experience is not a good idea. It's better to let the energies do what they need to. It could seriously hurt them. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Apr 06 2007 : 02:48:45 AM
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Hi Yogani,
Thanks for the reply. Well.. she laid off practices for about 24 hours, and then started doing some light practices again (meditation/ mantra japa/ pranayama). Interestingly she said that she feels that doing a small amount of spiritual practices makes her feel a bit better than none at all. Katrine said something similar recently in this post:
http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....D=2335#19456
She also said that she has always felt guilty before if she doesn't do her practices, and she felt a lot of relief from knowing that actually she could just not do them, and it might be the best thing.
quote:
18 years and still struggling with kundalini? The arrows point to the practices in use, and/or some really ornery karma.
Well ... there certainly does seem to be some karma involved. I don't talk much about previous lives normally, and how they effect our spiritual practice, but check this!...
This is what happened to her when she was 18 yers old :
(I asked her permission before recounting this here)
She had never done any spiritual practices and was an atheist. Then she met a Christian lady who tried to convert her to Christianity. The lady told her that she should pray to God, but she didn't believe in God. She didn't go to the church. Then one day she decided that she would try to pray, and she went out at night on her own. It was a starry night and there were no clouds. She really wanted to get into acting school but there were only four places and
hundreds of children were applying. So she prayed to God to give her a place in acting school. Then two white lights came down from above her and entered her crown chakra. The lights were side by side and about an inch or two apart. The lights merged in her heart and expanded out as divine love. She became overwhelmed by the intensity of the love. At the same time her consciousness expanded until she saw that she contained the whole universe. She maintained conscious awareness of her body, and of her surroundings throughout the whole experience. So she was simultaneously aware of the lights, the love, her physical body and of containing the whole universe. She said that she felt the rays of light as pure love.
It was after that experience that the kundalini energy began rising. She got a place at the acting school, but said that all she could think about was what happened to her that night, and wanting to experience it again. She dropped out of the school.
Now she seems to be on a one way ticket to God, the hard way. Much of her practice seems to be an attempt to manage the purification being enacted in her body/mind by the kundalini energy, and an attempt to work with the energy as best she can. But it certainly seems to overwhelm her at times (to put it mildly!).
She spoke to a famous spiritual teacher in Bombay, and told him this story about the two lights, and he said that she should have become enlightened at this point, and he didn't know why it didn't happen.
So, there's a beautiful story, and a tragic story... and hopefully it will have a happy ending one day. Sounds like it comes under the premature crown opening category.
Thanks again for your help.
Christi
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Dec 22 2007 : 4:02:30 PM
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| How about plain old walking? Has she tried walking 2-4 hours a day? I realise people don't usually have that much time, but with those kind of symptoms it may be worth making the time. |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jan 29 2010 : 3:50:05 PM
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hi Christy and all, i know that this subject is old but it sounds very important for people with energy imbalances because this is the first time i which i read Yogani say we can do DM and SBP in reverse so will definitely try that out.
and i was wondering did your friend try the ida practice and in case she did how did it go for her and how is she right now?
hope she's at a better place now, tell her hello from a kundalini anonymous .
L&L |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2010 : 11:16:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ananda
hi Christy and all, i know that this subject is old but it sounds very important for people with energy imbalances because this is the first time i which i read Yogani say we can do DM and SBP in reverse so will definitely try that out.
and i was wondering did your friend try the ida practice and in case she did how did it go for her and how is she right now?
hope she's at a better place now, tell her hello from a kundalini anonymous.
L&L
Hi Ananda,
When you say that this is the first time you have heard Yogani say to do DM and SBP in reverse I assume you are reffering to this paragraph of his above:
quote:
Yogani wrote:
If there is some energy right after beginning deep meditation, it would be better to stabilize deep meditation practice before moving into spinal breathing. In this case, spinal breathing would not be in the "curative" category and should be started when the person has stabilized deep meditation and has developed the urge to take the next step, like the lessons say.
I think what he was referring to there was that if someone is practicing DM, and experiences a rise of energy right away, and they are experiencing problems with too much energy in general, then they should only practice DM every day until things are stable before introducing SBP. Then they would both be practiced together with SBP coming first. I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong.
As far as I know, my friend did not practice the technique. The last time I saw her she was continuing to overdo spiritual practices (especially self-inquiry) and was suffering as much as ever. I will send you her best wishes.
Christi |
Edited by - Christi on Jan 30 2010 12:14:07 PM |
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adamantclearlight
USA
410 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2010 : 12:43:57 PM
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Sometimes you just have to make suffering your friend and push on!
Adamant |
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Ananda
3115 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2010 : 1:59:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by yogani
In cases where kundalini is raging, it is okay to start the practices in reverse order (usually we begin deep meditation before spinal breathing), as spinal breathing is the more energy stabilizing practice, and that is what we need first with everything being out of kilter.
hi Chriss,
i misunderstood and thought at first that we can do Dm and SBP in reverse order during one sitting.
but now after doing a scd reading, it's more clarified and it seems that he's advocating spinal breathing first as a stand alone practice until the energies have settled down and after that adding DM.
hope i got that right, i am a bit too much at the crown chakra these days...
L&L |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Jan 30 2010 : 3:42:27 PM
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Hi Ananda,
Yes, that is how I read it also. If someone has energy completely out of control when first coming to AYO, the some light spinal breathing initially could help stabilize the energy before moving on to DM. |
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Ida strengthening?
