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AYPforum
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 Posted - Jul 08 2005 : 12:47:57 PM
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1107 From: meg
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:56pm
Subject: pure bliss consciousness??? margaretsueh...
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Hello - I'm a brand new member of this group, and am so excited to be part
of a larger group of people who are into these practices. I9ve been
following the lessons in Yogani9s book for about 4 months, and am really
impressed at how intelligent and insightful his writings are. However, I
have to say that I have yet to feel anything resembling 3pure bliss
consciousness2 (PBC) and it9s kind of bumming me out. I9m getting a lot out
of the lessons (i.e., it9s had a very calming effect in my life), but when I
read about how other practitioners are feeling everything from tingling in
their gut to throbbing in their big toe, I have to wonder if I9m missing
something. Needless to say, I9m not at the kechari stage yet, but I9d love
to hear from some of you about your initial experiences. Namely, what is
PBC? Will I know it if/when I experience it? Do some people just never
experience it? How much weight should one give to the physical sensations
as signs of progress?
Thanks for your responses. I9ve enjoyed reading your discussions on
marriage.
meg
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1108 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com>
Date: Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:19pm
Subject: Re: pure bliss consciousness??? vic
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Welcome Meg,
I would say that it is a gradual process. Many of us have come from long practice in other styles (I did Iyengar pranayama for over 20 years) and so when we tried the AYP practices it was like shifting into high gear and the change was very swift. In the case of someone starting Yoga for the first time with AYP I would expect the process of deepened practice to take some time and that most sensations or experiences would be primarly blocks or energetic obstructions showing up rather than "pure bliss conciousness". I would just advise you to persevere, don't rush ahead too much and do it for the long run not the short term high. Little by little the practice itself will teach you and you will find yourself opening up in perhaps mysterious ways. Just do the practice, self pace and pay attention in the moment to how you feel doing the practice. Then just keep plugging away........
meg wrote:
Hello I9m a brand new member of this group, and am so excited to be part
of a larger group of people who are into these practices. I9ve been
following the lessons in Yogani9s book for about 4 months, and am really
impressed at how intelligent and insightful his writings are. However, I
have to say that I have yet to feel anything resembling 3pure bliss
consciousness2 (PBC) and it9s kind of bumming me out. I9m getting a lot out
of the lessons (i.e., it9s had a very calming effect in my life), but when I
read about how other practitioners are feeling everything from tingling in
their gut to throbbing in their big toe, I have to wonder if I9m missing
something. Needless to say, I9m not at the kechari stage yet, but I9d love
to hear from some of you about your initial experiences. Namely, what is
PBC? Will I know it if/when I experience it? Do some people just never
experience it? How much weight should one give to the physical sensations
as signs of progress?
Thanks for your responses. I9ve enjoyed reading your discussions on
marriage.
meg
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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1109 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:04am
Subject: Re: pure bliss consciousness??? obsidian9999
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Hello Meg,
welcome to AYP.
I9m getting a lot out
> of the lessons (i.e., it9s had a very calming effect in my life),
Glad to hear it is working well for you already. If it has a
calming effect on your life, it is working. The following two
lessons are very appropriate ---
http://www.aypsite.org/35.html
http://www.aypsite.org/185.html
Some words in particular about other peoples "experiences" --- don't
worry about not having them. Experiences are all so varied and
particular, and many of them mean no more than having indigestion.
> to hear from some of you about your initial experiences. Namely,
what is
> PBC? Will I know it if/when I experience it?
If PBC comes on to you suddenly you will notice the change
immediately; if it comes to you gradually over the years (and this
can happen too), you may only notice it on reflection as a happy
change that has come to you over time.
(Actually, the more technical truth is that we all have some PBC
always. So it is *always* a matter of degree, kind of like
temperature. So if you were living in Arctic weather and you
suddenly felt a warm Meditarranian breeze, you'd notice it and say
something had happened. If your inner weather changed over a period
of twenty years from Arctic to Mediterranean, you might never
notice anything happening at any particular time, but you would
notice the changes on reflection.)
Sometimes people experience a very immediate, deep inner silence,
like a sudden phase change. It is like as I mentioned, someone
living in the Arctic suddenly experiencing a Mediterranean breeze.
It is a little like this --- you know about the idea of 'acute
illness', being an illness that is with you for a short time --
and 'chronic illness', being an illness that is with you for a long
period --- well, let's use 'acute' and 'chronic' in a non-
negative way if you could imagine a counterpart like 'acute health'
and 'chronic health' :), so we could talk about 'acute Pure Bliss
Consciousness (PBC)' and 'chronic PBC'. Acute PBC is like the
meditarranean breeze; chronic PBC is like living in the
mediterranean.
Obviously, just as chronic health is better than acute health, so
chronic PBC is better than acute PBC.
Now, another twist is that the length of time acute PBC lasts can
be as little as a fraction of a second. Sometimes people get acute
PBC in meditation, sometimes it is only a fraction of a second,
sometimes they can learn to sustain it for longer. Sometimes acute
PBC happens outside of meditation, spontaneously, as
spiritual 'peak experiences' (although not all peak experiences are
acute PBC). If this happens to you, at least in a very deep form,
you'll notice it. In a very deep form it generally
brings 'spontaneous kumbhak' with it, which is a sudden slowing of
the metabolism causing immediate cessation (= near-cessation) of the
breath for as long as it lasts. There may well be more shallow
acute PBC experiences too, which are less noticeable.
If you can develop and sustain acute PBC, chronic PBC will
generally begin to take root over time. However, I believe that
chronic PBC can start to take hold without acute PBC ever
happening. This should be some comfort to people who don't ever get
any acute PBC in meditation.
I have heard that Pema Chodron, the esteemed Tibetan buddhist
teacher, despite having meditated for decades has never had acute
PBC at all, but I see a lot of evidence that she has it in the
chronic form.
I have coined some pretty clinical terms here for things for which
much more poetic, beautiful terms are often used. What I have
called 'Acute PBC' is called 'Savikalpa Samadhi' in the yoga
tradition and 'Chronic PBC' is called 'Nirvikalpa Samadhi'.
So, maybe I've said enough about PBC. I'd say read those lessons I
mentioned, be glad your practice is working, take it all as it
comes. Don't over-fuss about either presence or absence of
particular experiences. Congratulations on starting the practice.
It is inevitable that you will discover who you are in time.
Blessings,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, meg wrote:
> Hello - I9m a brand new member of this group, and am so excited to
be part
> of a larger group of people who are into these practices. I9ve
been
> following the lessons in Yogani9s book for about 4 months, and am
really
> impressed at how intelligent and insightful his writings are.
However, I
> have to say that I have yet to feel anything resembling 3pure bliss
> consciousness2 (PBC) and it9s kind of bumming me out. I9m getting
a lot out
> of the lessons (i.e., it9s had a very calming effect in my life),
but when I
> read about how other practitioners are feeling everything from
tingling in
> their gut to throbbing in their big toe, I have to wonder if I9m
missing
> something. Needless to say, I9m not at the kechari stage yet, but
I9d love
> to hear from some of you about your initial experiences. Namely,
what is
> PBC? Will I know it if/when I experience it? Do some people just
never
> experience it? How much weight should one give to the physical
sensations
> as signs of progress?
>
> Thanks for your responses. I9ve enjoyed reading your discussions
on
> marriage.
>
>
>
> meg
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1111 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com>
Date: Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:06pm
Subject: Re: pure bliss consciousness??? jim_and_his_...
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I can't reply any better than Victor and David, but I'll try expressing it differently, giving
you and other readers along a third "flavor" of the same ice cream...
1. AYP is making you feel good.
Really, I should just note that and close my reply. Case closed. It's really all that needs to
be said. I don't know how old you are, but at a certain point (and it doesn't take long) most
people give up on feeling good. All
the heartbreaks, grinds, disappointments, and dashed hopes accumulate and turn life into
a drudge. Spiritual practices can help restore youthful vibrancy and happiness, but they've
got to work fast enough to at least keep up with the downslope. AYP works exceptionally
fast, which is why you're feeling better from practicing it. And that's good enough. It won't
awake your inner capacity
for ecstacy in a snap (as Victor says, most of us have been working on ourselves for
decades...though it'd have happened much faster and less bumpily if we had AYP from the
get-go).
Mind you if you did all the AYP practices 17 hours per day, it
would happen a lot faster, but it'd also leave you burnt to a cinder. You're not only
working up re: your ability
to experience higher energies, you're ALSO working up re: your ability to handle them!
You're feeling good and calm. Very few people can say that. I'd say to you: enjoy it. That's
what you can handle right now. When you can handle more, AYP will ignite more. And (this
is the important part): it feels good the whole ride. A little is good. More is good. Lots is
good. I despise this cliched phrase, but it really is "all good". Enjoy the ride and don't
sweat your position on the road map. If it starts feeling less good, or you plateau forever
and ever, you need to tinker with your practice (take on more or back off). You're like a
train conductor; all you have are accelerator and brakes, so use them wisely!
2. If you were talking with a bunch of hatha yogis (you actually are - many of us are long
time asaana practioners, but that's not mostly what we're talking about) and we were
discussing doing terribly advanced things like putting our legs behind our heads and
balancing on our forearms and such, and you were just barely able to touch your toes, you
might likewise feel "behind". What I'd say to a beginner hatha yogi is this: you get as much
benefit and opening and pleasure and just plain old
YOGA in wisely, calmly, gracefully working your "edge" (the dividing line between too
much and not enough) by touching your ankles as I get from putting my palms on the
floor. We're all working our edges, we're all opening more and more. It doesn't matter
where you're at...if you're at your edge and I'm at my edge, we're both in the same place.
Same with AYP. Your edge is where you're doing your practices meticulously and creating
inner silence and opening your nervous system as swiftly as possible without
"overdoing".
If you feel comfortable doing so, you may want to
ramp up your practice, and see if you're truly at your edge right now or if you can scale up
without ill effect. If you're self-observant, you'll
quickly see if you were ready or not (for an example of not being ready, see <http://
groups.yahoo.com/group/AYPforum/message/636>). If not, know that you're exactly
where the rest of us are: carefully working our edges. And that for you right now, the prize
in the Cracker Jacks box is the glowy calm. Again, if you're doing AYP faithfully, you're
getting the energy you can handle, and you're handling the energy you're getting.
As to what it will feel like, it's better than drugs. It's a heckuva kick. Real nice buzz. But it
is not, in and of itself, the goal or anything close to it. Ecstasy's actually just a side effect.
Calm (deep calm - i.e. stillness or samadhi) is more important and (for me at least) more
difficult to achieve than ecstasy. So keep on, you're on track! I think you might find this
revelatory: http://www.aypsite.org/258.html
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, meg wrote:
> Hello - I9m a brand new member of this group, and am so excited to be part
> of a larger group of people who are into these practices. I9ve been
> following the lessons in Yogani9s book for about 4 months, and am really
> impressed at how intelligent and insightful his writings are. However, I
> have to say that I have yet to feel anything resembling 3pure bliss
> consciousness2 (PBC) and it9s kind of bumming me out. I9m getting a lot out
> of the lessons (i.e., it9s had a very calming effect in my life), but when I
> read about how other practitioners are feeling everything from tingling in
> their gut to throbbing in their big toe, I have to wonder if I9m missing
> something. Needless to say, I9m not at the kechari stage yet, but I9d love
> to hear from some of you about your initial experiences. Namely, what is
> PBC? Will I know it if/when I experience it? Do some people just never
> experience it? How much weight should one give to the physical sensations
> as signs of progress?
>
> Thanks for your responses. I9ve enjoyed reading your discussions on
> marriage.
>
>
>
> meg
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
1115 From: "Dave Moore" <riptiz@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:50am
Subject: Re: pure bliss consciousness??? riptiz
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Hi,
In actual fact the burnout that you speak of is signs of cleansing
and purification of the body. This is a natural cleansing that
occurs when you are doing energy work just as one gets a healing
crisis from receiving healing from someone.Normally the symptoms
would not be a problem if you were doing simply Hatha or say Tai Chi
as the purifying effects are not as fast, although some can
experience this.A friend of a friend was experiencing tingling
sensations during Hatha sessions but her teacher could not explain
them so she stopped training as it frightened her.Unfortunately her
teacher was not as knowledgable as she should have been which is
often the case for many yoga teachers.Many people think yoga is
about tying yourself in knots and improving physical health and know
little about the spiritual side.Using the Kundalini Maha Yoga system
the cleansing effects are a regular occurence because the practice
has such a fast effect on the body so one needs to receive guidance
along the way. I found with TM that I experienced cleansing also
after the initial bliss but it all depends on how your system
cleanses and in what condition it is.
L&L
dave
1116 From: "david_obsidian1" <david_obsidian1@yahoo.com>
Date: Sun Jun 26, 2005 0:34pm
Subject: Re: pure bliss consciousness??? david_obsidian1
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Hi Dave,
I'm a little curious about Kundalini Maha Yoga which I think you
have mentioned in all of your posts. Does it follow the pattern of
open teaching, (as Yogani's does) or is it the more traditional
closed teaching pattern, given strictly on an initiation-only basis?
>Using the Kundalini Maha Yoga system
> the cleansing effects are a regular occurence because the practice
> has such a fast effect on the body so one needs to receive
guidance
> along the way.
Actually, when cleansing gets really fast, that's often one of the
times when guidance is *most* needed. That's one of the reasons
that this board is here. The very openness of this school (AYP) is
based on the idea that the openness itself makes guidance more
freely available, higher quality, and stimulates the inner guru to
provide more.
I found with TM that I experienced cleansing also
> after the initial bliss but it all depends on how your system
> cleanses and in what condition it is.
Yup, I found the same --- different cleaning agents often work
better in different parts of the house --- the best for the pots is
not necessarily the best for the windows. Yogani has put together
the 'top gun' techniques so, as you become more advanced in your
work you get a sense of what to put more emphasis on. All the good
techniques that TM teaches are available here, BTW, without the
hefty fees.
Blessings,
-David
1119 From: "Dave Moore" <riptiz@hotmail.com>
Date: Sun Jun 26, 2005 6:19pm
Subject: Re: pure bliss consciousness??? riptiz
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Hi David,
I only got as far as using the meditation and alternate nostril
pranayams plus a few asanas when I went on a w/end retreat.I never
advanced further than that although within KMY it is much simpler
than TM.
If you mean initiation as in Shaktipat then it is not necessary to
recieve shaktipat to start within the KMY system but of course you
need a guru.As far as the mantras go you need initiation in them
because they contain the energy of the siddhas which makes them very
powerful.Don't be misled by the TM siddha program because it is in
name only and not as some may think a path to becoming a siddha.In
fact the Maharishi is not a siddha or fully realised although he has
done much good to make others aware of spirituality.I paid #35 to
learn the TM program in 1976 and it now costs #1200 here in the
UK.All the teachings and initiations I have received in KMY have
been given freely by my guru.I have only paid for my trip to India
to recive shaktipat from our satguru in Jan 05.
Basically within the KMY system you are given a mantra which you use
for meditation and for japa and quite often that is enough for many
people depending on how much work you put in.The beauty of being
initiated with the mantras is that you then have psychic protection
from the guru and after shaktipat you have a permanent connection
with our satguru.There are many mantras and not have all the same
purpose.Normally you are given one for meditation, later the
specific guru mantra, bija akshars(seed mantras for individual
chakra work)and after shaktipat the butta shuddi mantra for
cleansing and purification.It is imperative to receive guidance
within this system as the progress is rapid and cleansing symptoms
are definetaly experienced.Obviously not all want to go this way and
even with this system it takes many years of daily hard work to make
serious progress towards enlightenment.Although enlightenment is the
ultimate aim, it is the benefits along the way that most of us will
only ever experience.To put this in persective, guruji told us that
within the last 500 yrs there have barely been 100 people recieved
the grace of enlightenment.At this moment in time there is no one in
the Himalayas fully enlightened and only a few in India.
L&L
dave
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Edited by - n/a on Nov 03 2005 12:37:33 PM |
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