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Posted - Jul 08 2005 : 12:21:11 PM
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910 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com> Date: Sat May 7, 2005 1:21am Subject: Siddhasana Details jim_and_his_... Offline Send Email Hi everybody
I've finally recovered enough from an ankle injury to start sitting in siddhasana. And I'm having some trouble with it, even after 20 years of hatha yoga practice (never practiced siddhasana!).
Can anyone offer me hints re: position of the bottom foot? Which part of the foot, exactly, is on the ground? Which way do the toes point? Yogani says that the foot should almost be upside down, for maximal heel protruberance, but when I do that, I have to bring the leg so far forward that it doesn't look like siddhansana anymore. Also, I can't get more than very light pressure on the perineum no matter how I reposition.
Also, Yogani describes the top leg as being in half lotus...does that mean it's up on the thigh, or upon the calf? I know that the two heels ideally should be stacked and aligned, with the upper heel pressing the pubic bone.....but it's just not happening for me. And it's not a function of stiffness (I'm pretty limber); I just honestly can't visualize what's needed to get there. I'm used to Iyengar yoga, where all the minutae of a new pose are laid out for me...but Iyengar's version of siddhasana (unsurprisingly) doesn't go anywhere near the perineum.
Sorry to be so helpless on this...can anyone help me get going? I"m about to bail and go back to lotus or cross legs. I miss my zafu! 912 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com> Date: Sat May 7, 2005 3:08am Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details obsidian9999 Offline Send Email Hi Jim,
it seems a number of people are having trouble with this --- we have a number of posts on this earlier --- did you try searching and reading them all through? I'd recommend it.
I wish I could give you an 'authoritative' answer on what siddhasana 'is' or 'should be' but I can't, but if you check the posts, you will find how I found out how to do a passable siddhasana. My critical 'discovery' was to sit on something --- I don't know how realistic it is to do it on a flat surface. Check also Victor's response to my post.
As for the specific questions, I'll try....
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma" > Can anyone offer me hints re: position of the bottom foot? Which part of the foot, > exactly, is on the ground? Which way do the > toes point?
In my case, it's just like half-lotus. Does that help?
>Yogani says that the foot should almost be upside down, for maximal heel > protruberance, but when I do that, I have to bring the leg so far forward that it > doesn't look like siddhansana anymore. Also, I can't get more than very light pressure > on the perineum no matter how I reposition.
I don't know about 'almost upside down'. Also, light pressure should be enough. Also, when you are positioning yourself, I think you have to move lean back a little with the torso and make a little gap into which you slip the lower heel. Or so I have interpolated. Did you assume this?
> Also, Yogani describes the top leg as being in half lotus...does that mean it's up > on the thigh, or upon the calf?
On the calf I think.
> I know that the two heels ideally should be stacked and > aligned, with the upper heel pressing the pubic bone.....but it's just not happening > for me. > And it's not a function of stiffness (I'm pretty limber); I just honestly can't visualize > what's needed to get there. > I'm used to Iyengar yoga, where all the minutae of a new pose > are laid out for me...but Iyengar's version of siddhasana (unsurprisingly) doesn't go > anywhere near the perineum.
Exactly, see other postings --- I think the 'ideal' here, the usual hatha yoga instructions, could be wrong --- mistranslated perhaps?
Honestly, I'm not sure you can get much better than half-lotus with a well-chosen prop, a soft little ball, or even a rolled-up article of clothing (e.g. woolly sock) placed where they are trying to use the heel for the purpose. Seriously, the real purpose of this is a little hint of sexual stimulation [ enter heavy-rock intro guitar riff here :)].
-David 916 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com> Date: Sat May 7, 2005 10:30am Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details jim_and_his_... Offline Send Email Thanks, David, very helpful.
------ Honestly, I'm not sure you can get much better than half-lotus with a well-chosen prop, a soft little ball, or even a rolled-up article of clothing (e.g. woolly sock) placed where they are trying to use the heel for the purpose. ------
You want to know the truth of why I won't do that? It's entirely pride and ego. I've practiced hatha yoga 90 mins/day for years, so this should be something I just eat up. It just seems dumb for me to give up on doing siddhasana and resort to wooly sock when this should be the easiest component of the whole practice for me. It's like a trained opera singer living on a farm and learning to call hogs being advised to use some sort of whistle or something 'cuz he just can't shout loudly or melodiously enough. You could tell him "c'mon, man, just use the whistle, it works perfectly well!" but he's just not gonna, y'know?
So i'm stubbornly standing here in the mud, in my overalls, hoping some vocal coach will come by and work with me on my pig calling. Am I being a proud, ridiculous. stubborn idiot? You bet! Does my realization of this mean I'm going wooly sock? No way! 914 From: "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com> Date: Sat May 7, 2005 7:11am Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details azaz932001 Offline Send Email --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote: > Hi everybody > > I've finally recovered enough from an ankle injury to start sitting in siddhasana. And I'm > having some trouble with it, even after 20 years of hatha yoga practice (never practiced > siddhasana!). > >Hello Jim
I have cracked how to get into Siddhasana but I cant hold it for any length of time I'm not very flexible at all so I sit in the easy position and use a rubber ball as a prosthesis this works well but I am practicing as I think the heel would be better.
The key to it is that it doesn't bear any resemblance to the Lotus at all it is a kneeling posture. Pressure isn't important its more stimulation. The easiest way to get into it is to sit in the easy position (one foot pulled into the crutch and the other just in front) and then using your hands push yourself forward into a kneeling position. If you try to get your heel underneath you from a normal cross legged position you are liable to damage your knees. A padded surface is quite inadequate for this, the surface needs to be really soft i.e. a bed. I have a picture somewhere of someone in it I will try and find it and send it to you in a private e-mail.
Blessings R.C. 915 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com> Date: Sat May 7, 2005 8:20am Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details obsidian9999 Offline Send Email Hi Richard,
I'm very curious to see that picture too (is it a siddhasana variant?) as it's the first time I'll have seen anything like siddhasana being a kneeling position.
Check my cautions about 'sitting' on your heel, if the posture is anything like that. I have met no man yet who is keen on the thought of a permanent 'saddle injury' with the associated damage to sexual potency. That would *certainly* be a risk if you sit with your perineum on your heel for a long time.
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@h...> wrote: > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma" > <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote: > > Hi everybody > > > > I've finally recovered enough from an ankle injury to start sitting > in siddhasana. And I'm > > having some trouble with it, even after 20 years of hatha yoga > practice (never practiced > > siddhasana!). > > > >Hello Jim > > I have cracked how to get into Siddhasana but I cant hold it for any > length of time I'm not very flexible at all so I sit in the easy > position and use a rubber ball as a prosthesis this works well but I > am practicing as I think the heel would be better. > > The key to it is that it doesn't bear any resemblance to the Lotus at > all it is a kneeling posture. Pressure isn't important its more > stimulation. The easiest way to get into it is to sit in the easy > position (one foot pulled into the crutch and the other just in > front) and then using your hands push yourself forward into a > kneeling position. If you try to get your heel underneath you from a > normal cross legged position you are liable to damage your knees. A > padded surface is quite inadequate for this, the surface needs to be > really soft i.e. a bed. I have a picture somewhere of someone in it I > will try and find it and send it to you in a private e-mail. > > Blessings R.C. 917 From: "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com> Date: Sat May 7, 2005 1:31pm Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details azaz932001 Offline Send Email --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote: > > Hi Richard, > > I'm very curious to see that picture too (is it a siddhasana > variant?) as it's the first time I'll have seen anything like > siddhasana being a kneeling position. > > Check my cautions about 'sitting' on your heel, if the posture is > anything like that. I have met no man yet who is keen on the > thought of a permanent 'saddle injury' with the associated damage to > sexual potency. That would *certainly* be a risk if you sit with > your perineum on your heel for a long time. > > -David > Hello I haven't found the picture as yet.
I don't see that there's any problem with pressure as long as you are on a really soft surface, as I said it has to be a bed there is hardly any pressure at all just stimulation.
Blessings R.C.
> > > 918 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com> Date: Sat May 7, 2005 2:22pm Subject: Re: Re: Siddhasana Details vic Offline Send Email This is getting to be pretty humorous considering how simple Siddhasana is! In a nutshell it is sitting crosslegged on the floor with the heel of one foot lightly tucked under the perineum. and the other foot slightly over it. This does not mean that you are sitting on your heel, it just means that the lower heel is centered under the genitals. Thats all. Then the opposite foot is placed over the lower foot. The heels don't need to line up and the knees should be comfortably wide but not pushed wide. The knees are wider than Padmasana but not quite as wide as Baddha Konasana. Classically your toes will be tucked in between the opposite thigh and calf. This is much easier for skinny paople, and for those who are not as thin as they used to be (like myself) you need to finesse the toes a bit to tuck without pinching them. I find that the tip of the foot should point a bit into the crease of the thigh/calf so that the upper foot points down slightly and the lower foot points up slightly. I don't put a rolled up sock under my perineum but I do put one in between my two ankles to give a gentle directional encouragement and slight padding. Also, while it might be ideal to someday sit on a flat floor I prefer to sit on a slight pad. Not very much though, perhaps a blanket folded several times. I use a backpacking "Ridgerest" sleping pad because it folds in an accordian shape and I can precisely adjust the height by folding or unfolding it so that with time I may little by little use less lift. For those with stiffer legs use more lift, also for those with more rounded backs use more lift. For those with more open knees, thin legs and an elongated spine perhaps no lift is needed.That is a personal choice. The main thing is that you sit comfortably with the legs crossed and breath not feeling at all restricted by the posture but rather that the posture encourages a progressive opening of the breath and energy channels while practicing.
azaz932001 <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com> wrote: --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@y...> wrote: > > Hi Richard, > > I'm very curious to see that picture too (is it a siddhasana > variant?) as it's the first time I'll have seen anything like > siddhasana being a kneeling position. > > Check my cautions about 'sitting' on your heel, if the posture is > anything like that. I have met no man yet who is keen on the > thought of a permanent 'saddle injury' with the associated damage to > sexual potency. That would *certainly* be a risk if you sit with > your perineum on your heel for a long time. > > -David > Hello I haven't found the picture as yet.
I don't see that there's any problem with pressure as long as you are on a really soft surface, as I said it has to be a bed there is hardly any pressure at all just stimulation.
Blessings R.C.
> > >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 919 From: "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@hotmail.com> Date: Sat May 7, 2005 3:00pm Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details azaz932001 Offline Send Email Wow you guys get so technical I know absolutely nothing about hatha yoga I'm useless at asana's not flexible enough, the only time I really went for it I damaged my knees. I think that's the trouble here its different than the usual disciplines. When I said the easy position I didn't mean the half lotus I just meant what Yogani describes. One foot tucked into the crutch and the other just lying in front of it. And then you just shift your weight forward onto your shins, easy.
Blessings R.C. 920 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com> Date: Sat May 7, 2005 9:38pm Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details jim_and_his_... Offline Send Email --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@h...> wrote: > Wow you guys get so technical
Yes, it's true. But it's not a "hatha yoga thing". It's an "Iyengar Yoga thing"....the same thing was bewildering another poster a few days ago.
And it's just what I wanted. I'm an ungraceful klutz who, thanks to the highly detailed and technical approach of Iyengar yoga, can do things with my body I'd never imagined. But to do something new - something that might strike you as a snap - I need three pages of exposition (that's not a fault of Iyengar yogis...it's more of an ungraceful klutz thing).
Victor's also an Iyengar person, so he speaks my language. Those of you reading along: don't be alarmed! :) It's just a certain "take" on how to use the body.
Thanks, Victor!! 921 From: victor yj <vic@yahoo.com> Date: Sun May 8, 2005 5:11am Subject: Re: Re: Siddhasana Details vic Offline Send Email Very welcome Jim, glad I could be of health. I think I am so used to the Iyengar mindset that even when I go my own way in Yoga I automatically use that way of thinking as a reference point. It is very helpful and then at some point needs to be let go of but I don't know what I would have done in Yoga without it!
jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com> wrote:--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@h...> wrote: > Wow you guys get so technical
Yes, it's true. But it's not a "hatha yoga thing". It's an "Iyengar Yoga thing"....the same thing was bewildering another poster a few days ago.
And it's just what I wanted. I'm an ungraceful klutz who, thanks to the highly detailed and technical approach of Iyengar yoga, can do things with my body I'd never imagined. But to do something new - something that might strike you as a snap - I need three pages of exposition (that's not a fault of Iyengar yogis...it's more of an ungraceful klutz thing).
Victor's also an Iyengar person, so he speaks my language. Those of you reading along: don't be alarmed! :) It's just a certain "take" on how to use the body.
Thanks, Victor!!
For the AYP Lessons and Books, go to: http://www.geocities.com/advancedyogapractices -- To change your email delivery to "daily digest," send a blank email to: AYPforum-digest@yahoogroups.com -- To stop email delivery and use "web viewing only," send a blank email to: AYPforum-nomail@yahoogroups.com -- To resume "individual email delivery," send a blank email to: AYPforum-normal@yahoogroups.com You can also make these changes in "Edit my Membership" on the group home page.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] 931 From: "Victor" <vic@yahoo.com> Date: Sun May 8, 2005 10:25pm Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details vic Offline Send Email Something I noticed in practice today with siddhasana. I am using a ZREST backpacking sleeping pad to sit on (I may have misdescribed it as a Ridgerest). This pad is accordian shaped so that you can fold it to the desired thickness and its very easy to adjust. I fold it several times and sit on it with my legs off of the pad on the floor. Today I tried folding the pad a little thicker and the results were very noticably positive. While previously there felt like some stretch to get the feet in the right position and therefore a slight pull for the top foot to flop out I found that with a little more lift this didn't happen and that the feet naturally sat just right in their positions. This may be no big deal but here is the change. When the bottom foot easily and naturally was situated just below my perineum I could feel a nice trickle of energy there that wasn't felt before. In the practice I felt my spine open and the breath going much more smoothly into the sushumna which opened up noticeably. Obviously there had been a small restriction in the pelvis that had blocked this opening. A small physical restriction can have very strong effects on something as subtle as teh breath and the kundalini energy. here is my point. The legs should not in any way feel that they restrict the flow of breath in the pelvis. Do not squeeze or force the legs in position but rather adjust the height of your seat so that this is not restricted. Use more height than needed at first and then as it becomes easy you may work your way down. Anyway, that is my experience and it is working well. 933 From: "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@yahoo.com> Date: Sun May 8, 2005 10:29pm Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details jim_and_his_... Offline Send Email My feelings precisely. It's great that you took time to translate siddhasana into Iyengarese; it'll be invaluable for other Iyengar students getting into the practice.
Hey, did anything ever come of that practice we discussed of extending the back of the head as if it were the spine?
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote: > Very welcome Jim, glad I could be of health. I think I am so used to the Iyengar mindset that even when I go my own way in Yoga I automatically use that way of thinking as a reference point. It is very helpful and then at some point needs to be let go of but I don't know what I would have done in Yoga without it! > > jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@h...> wrote: > > Wow you guys get so technical > > > Yes, it's true. But it's not a "hatha yoga thing". It's an "Iyengar Yoga thing"....the same thing > was bewildering another poster a few days ago. > > And it's just what I wanted. I'm an ungraceful klutz who, thanks to the highly detailed and > technical approach of Iyengar yoga, can do things with my body I'd never imagined. But to > do something new - something that might strike you as a snap - I need three pages of > exposition (that's not a fault of Iyengar yogis...it's more of an ungraceful klutz thing). > > Victor's also an Iyengar person, so he speaks my language. Those of you reading along: > don't be alarmed! :) It's just a certain "take" on how to use the body. > > Thanks, Victor!! 934 From: "obsidian9999" <obsidian9999@yahoo.com> Date: Mon May 9, 2005 0:41am Subject: Re: Siddhasana Details obsidian9999 Offline Send Email Jim,
If I am right, this is something I already do. I was taught it a few years ago by a yoga-teacher.
She gave the instructions 'energetically' in much the same way that you did.
Being an engineer I broke it down mechanically; this may make it more accessible to some people.
Here's an alternative description.
As a preliminary exercise, explore the movement of moving your head forward and backwards while keeping your face vertical. (This is an E.T.-like move!)
Then, as another preliminary exercise, explore simply nodding your head up and down.
Now, to do this thing, move your head intending to go BACK a little (the E.T.-way) while also engaging the movement which puts it on a DOWNWARD NOD. (This is counter-intuitive because the most natural movement will be to do an upward nod when moving back.) You neither end up going back significanctly nor nodding significantly, because these two movements sort of 'compete' in a way which prevents either of them getting far, but the compettion stretches the very top of the spine, where it attaches to the skull. I think that is a very rare kind of stretch to get, and it *is* delicious.
Does that make sense to you as being the same move you are doing?
Regards,
-David
--- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "jim_and_his_karma" <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote: > My feelings precisely. It's great that you took time to translate siddhasana into Iyengarese; > it'll be invaluable for other Iyengar students getting into the practice. > > Hey, did anything ever come of that practice we discussed of extending the back of the > head as > if it were the spine? > > > --- In AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, victor yj <vic@y...> wrote: > > Very welcome Jim, glad I could be of health. I think I am so used to the Iyengar mindset > that even when I go my own way in Yoga I automatically use that way of thinking as a > reference point. It is very helpful and then at some point needs to be let go of but I don't > know what I would have done in Yoga without it! > > > > jim_and_his_karma <jim_and_his_karma@y...> wrote:--- In > AYPforum@yahoogroups.com, "azaz932001" <richardchamberlin14@h...> wrote: > > > Wow you guys get so technical > > > > > > Yes, it's true. But it's not a "hatha yoga thing". It's an "Iyengar Yoga thing"....the same > thing > > was bewildering another poster a few days ago. > > > > And it's just what I wanted. I'm an ungraceful klutz who, thanks to the highly detailed > and > > technical approach of Iyengar yoga, can do things with my body I'd never imagined. But > to > > do something new - something that might strike you as a snap - I need three pages of > > exposition (that's not a fault of Iyengar yogis...it's more of an ungraceful klutz thing). > > > > Victor's also an Iyengar person, so he speaks my language. Those of you reading along: > > don't be alarmed! :) It's just a certain "take" on how to use the body. > > > > Thanks, Victor!!
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Edited by - AYPforum on Jul 08 2005 12:21:52 PM |
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