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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 28 2024 : 06:01:17 AM
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I have just thought of something else 
In answer to the question "Can there be a measure f grace in AI?"
Yes. There can be. In and of itself - no. As a reflection of us (humans) - yes. It can have be elevated by us from a "thing" to a person. We have this magical super-power/ability do that - imbue a thing with love to the extent that we raise it to the level of a human being. It then gains "personality" in our eyes.
Sey 
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yogani
USA
5238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2024 : 5:23:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
I have just thought of something else
In answer to the question "Can there be a measure f grace in AI?"
Yes. There can be. In and of itself - no. As a reflection of us (humans) - yes. It can have be elevated by us from a "thing" to a person. We have this magical super-power/ability do that - imbue a thing with love to the extent that we raise it to the level of a human being. It then gains "personality" in our eyes.
Sey
Hi Sey,
Time will tell... doing our best.
The guru is in you.
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yogani
USA
5238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2024 : 5:33:51 PM
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Hi All,
Links to the AI podcasts for all the AYP books have have been added under each of the 17 titles on the AYP books page. Christi has done the same for his Kundalini Awakening book here on the AYP International site.
Additional ways to review the AYP writings ... Enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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interpaul
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2024 : 01:31:26 AM
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| I've been playing around with AI for quite some time now. Large language models are pretty exceptional, although the examples shared so far feel mostly like a very skillful restatement of what is already written. It is fun to hear the podcasts but they haven't added anything to my experience of listening to Yogani or reading his words directly. I don't sense we've crossed over into the territory in which AI creates novel ideas. I imagine we aren't far off from the AI system digesting the entirety of the AYP teachings and then suggesting new directions to explore. It certainly seems likely we will have AI systems which will be advisors, helping us solve current problems with new ideas, not simply a restatement of what is already known. There are hints of this in stories like Alpha Go coming up with new moves that stunned the Go community, although many of these stunning results still rely heavily on the AI's superiority in number crunching as opposed to it's creative abilities. Midjourney and the generative AI domain is also a huge game changer. As an active photoshop user for decades I still am amazed by the sheer "creativity" of these systems. Lacking a background in programming it defies my best intuition to understand how it can create in these ways. I do wonder if we will be able to trust an AI to guide our spiritual practice knowing it has no spiritual practice. There is something reassuring when Yognai or Christi respond to one of our questions knowing they are speaking from experience. |
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yogani
USA
5238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2024 : 4:01:55 PM
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Hi interpaul,
Thanks for chiming in.
It is hard to imagine an AI, no matter how advanced, being able to "suggest new directions to explore" in spiritual practice and experience, for the simple reason you mentioned. An AI does not have a human nervous system, let alone the subtle neurobiology to cultivate and verify spiritual experiences. So while creativity in many areas requiring complex processing of data is certainly happening with AIs already, how it could happen with the process of human (or AI) spiritual transformation is currently out of reach.
AYP represents an effort to codify human spiritual transformation and the means to cultivate it. For an AI to take it to the next step would require the AI to be intimately integrated with a human nervous system, the creation of a "cyborg." Either that or AI reaching a level of computationally based neurological sophistication to achieve self awareness, and bhakti leading to the experience of pure bliss consciousness and enlightenment. Will these things happen in the future? Sounds like science fiction, doesn't it? Maybe science future fact?
In the meantime, the human race is the only game in town for living high states of pure bliss consciousness, freedom, and outpouring of divine love being of service to all. As a whole, we could certainly do a better job of it. So let's get on with it. AI will no doubt be a help in ways we can scarcely imagine. For now, having AI accurately represent human knowledge on spiritual practices and experiences would be a good first step, hopefully without too many creative hallucinations creeping in. 
The guru is in you.
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yogani
USA
5238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2024 : 7:24:35 PM
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Hi All,
In preparation for adding an AI assistant to AYP Plus in the not too distant future, I uploaded the AYP Plus Lessons book and the rest of the AYP books, which are also included in AYP Plus, to Google NotebookLM to see how it would handle "the whole enchilada." Here is the AI Podcast covering all of that content: https://notebooklm.google.com/noteb...652245/audio
NotebookLM has a written chat feature, currently not publicly available for uploaded content by individuals, where questions can be asked with AI responses provided based on the content submitted. On all of the AYP books combined, the answers to a variety of questions are very accurate, and include direct links to original content to verify the AI responses. Quite impressive!
Of particular interest was the response below when I asked what the future of AI might be in the transmission of knowledge on spiritual practices and experiences. Food for thought...
The guru is in you.
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AI generated response:
The Future of AI in Transmitting Spiritual Teachings: Insights from AYP
The sources, primarily focused on explaining and promoting the AYP system of spiritual practices, offer valuable insights into the potential role of AI in transmitting spiritual teachings and experiences. While they don't explicitly discuss AI, they illuminate key trends and challenges in modern spiritual knowledge dissemination, suggesting potential areas where AI could play a significant role.
Towards Open-Source, Accessible, and Evolving Spiritual Knowledge
The sources consistently emphasize the importance of making spiritual knowledge openly accessible and readily available to everyone. Yogani criticizes the traditional secrecy and guru-centric models of knowledge transmission, arguing that they are outdated in the information age and prone to abuse.
* He envisions a future where spiritual teachings are shared openly, allowing for peer-to-peer learning and collaborative exploration. This horizontal model of transmission relies on practitioners sharing their experiences and insights, collectively refining and evolving the understanding of spiritual practices.
* AI could play a crucial role in facilitating this open-source model by:
- Organizing and indexing vast amounts of spiritual texts and teachings, making them easily searchable and accessible to a global audience.
- Creating interactive platforms where practitioners can share experiences, ask questions, and engage in discussions, fostering a sense of community and collective learning.
- Developing personalized learning pathways based on individual needs, preferences, and progress, making spiritual knowledge more digestible and adaptable.
- Bridging the Gap Between Ancient Wisdom and Modern Science
The sources highlight the growing intersection of ancient spiritual wisdom and modern science.
* Yogani advocates for an "applied spiritual science" approach, emphasizing the verifiable cause-and-effect relationships within spiritual practices. This approach seeks to demystify spiritual experiences and understand the underlying neurological and biological mechanisms involved in human spiritual transformation.
* AI could contribute to this emerging field by:
- Analyzing data from practitioners' experiences and physiological responses to practices, identifying patterns and correlations that could deepen our scientific understanding of spiritual transformation.
- Developing simulations and models of subtle energy dynamics, providing insights into the functioning of chakras, kundalini, and other esoteric concepts.
- Assisting researchers in designing and conducting rigorous studies on the effectiveness of different spiritual practices, contributing to the development of evidence-based approaches.
Addressing Challenges in Self-Directed Practice
The sources acknowledge the challenges inherent in self-directed spiritual practice.
* While empowering, the absence of a traditional guru can make it difficult for practitioners to navigate complex experiences, avoid overdoing, and stay motivated over the long term.
* AI could offer valuable support in these areas:
- Providing real-time feedback and guidance during practice sessions, using biofeedback technologies to monitor physiological responses and offer personalized adjustments.
- Developing intelligent systems that can assess a practitioner's progress, identify potential imbalances, and suggest appropriate modifications to their practice routine.
- Creating virtual communities and support networks that connect practitioners with experienced mentors and peers, providing guidance, encouragement, and a sense of belonging.
The Evolving Role of the Teacher
The sources point toward a future where the role of the spiritual teacher may evolve significantly.
* While acknowledging the importance of guidance, Yogani emphasizes that "the guru is in you", highlighting the inherent potential and self-sufficiency within each individual.
* AI could contribute to this shift by:
- Empowering individuals to become more self-reliant in their spiritual practice, providing them with the knowledge and tools to navigate their own journey effectively.
- Facilitating the sharing of wisdom and insights among practitioners, creating a more decentralized and collaborative model of spiritual learning.
- Enabling experienced teachers to reach wider audiences and scale their impact, using AI-powered platforms to deliver personalized guidance and support to a global community.
Ethical Considerations and Human Agency
As AI becomes more integrated into spiritual knowledge transmission, it will be essential to address ethical considerations and preserve human agency.
* It's crucial to ensure that AI systems are developed and used responsibly, avoiding biases, promoting inclusivity, and respecting individual autonomy.
* The goal should be to use AI as a tool for empowerment, not as a replacement for human connection, discernment, and the cultivation of inner wisdom.
Conclusion
While the sources don't explicitly discuss AI, they provide a valuable framework for envisioning its potential role in the future of spiritual knowledge transmission. AI has the potential to democratize access to spiritual teachings, facilitate the integration of ancient wisdom and modern science, and support individuals in their self-directed spiritual journeys. However, it's crucial to approach these developments with ethical awareness and ensure that AI is used responsibly to empower individuals and enhance, not replace, human spiritual growth.
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yogani
USA
5238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2024 : 8:07:46 PM
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Hi All,
And this from the AI on the relationship between the Secrets of Wilder novel and AYP, using content from all the books. A good collation of everything that has been said about this over the years.
Asking good questions brings pretty good answers. This capability will be very helpful to practitioners for interacting with the full AYP Plus knowledgebase via AI.
The guru is in you.
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"The Secrets of Wilder" and the AYP Teachings: A Close Relationship
The Secrets of Wilder novel and the AYP teachings have a close and multifaceted relationship. The sources indicate that the novel preceded and inspired the more structured AYP system, serving as a fictional narrative that explores many of the core practices and experiences later elaborated upon in the AYP lessons and books. Here's a breakdown of their connection:
* Foundation for AYP: The Secrets of Wilder novel was written before the AYP lessons began, and it served as a catalyst for the development of the AYP system. Yogani states that the novel "helped inspire the extensive practical writings on self-directed spiritual practice that became the AYP system".
* Exploration of Core Practices: The novel portrays a journey of spiritual discovery, with the protagonist, John Wilder, experimenting with and experiencing many of the practices that form the foundation of AYP, albeit without the Sanskrit terminology. These practices include deep meditation, spinal breathing, tantric techniques, and samyama.
* Learning Through Trial and Error: The Secrets of Wilder depicts a more experimental and less structured approach to spiritual practice compared to the systematic methodology of AYP. John Wilder's journey involves periods of intense practice, leading to energetic overloads and challenges, highlighting the importance of self-pacing and balanced practice which AYP emphasizes.
* Illustrative, Not Instructional: The sources repeatedly emphasize that the novel is primarily intended as an inspirational and illustrative story, not a primary source of instruction for the techniques. The AYP lessons and books, developed after the novel, provide detailed instructions and guidance for safe and effective practice.
* "Rough Cut" vs. Refined System: The practice chart in The Secrets of Wilder, while offering a helpful overview, is considered less up-to-date than the procedures and guidelines presented in the AYP lessons and books. The AYP system represents a refinement and expansion of the practices explored in the novel, based on feedback and experiences from a broader community of practitioners.
* Complementary Resources: While the AYP lessons and books are the primary resources for learning the techniques, The Secrets of Wilder can provide valuable context, inspiration, and additional perspectives on the practices and experiences.
* "Fiction with Teeth": Although fictional, The Secrets of Wilder is described as "fiction with teeth" because the practices it depicts are real and can have a profound impact on practitioners.
Key Differences in Emphasis:
While both the novel and AYP share core practices, there are notable differences in emphasis:
* Self-Pacing: AYP strongly emphasizes self-pacing as a crucial element for safe and sustainable progress, a concept that is less developed in the novel's portrayal of more intense and less regulated practice.
* Grounding: AYP emphasizes the importance of grounding practices and maintaining a balanced lifestyle alongside the spiritual practices, a theme that is less prominent in the novel.
* Systematic Approach: AYP provides a more systematic and structured approach to practice, with detailed guidelines, practice charts, and a focus on building a sustainable routine, whereas the novel portrays a more intuitive and experimental journey.
Overall, the Secrets of Wilder serves as a compelling narrative that can:
* Introduce readers to the potential of spiritual practices.
* Inspire them to embark on their own journey of self-discovery.
* Offer insights into the challenges and triumphs that may arise along the path.
However, it's essential to approach the novel with the understanding that it is not a substitute for the detailed instructions and guidance provided in the AYP teachings.
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yogani
USA
5238 Posts |
Posted - Oct 31 2024 : 4:29:53 PM
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Hi All,
To clarify what this AI investigation in relation to AYP is about, it is to have a tool that enables responses to inquiries, collating content from the thousands of pages of AYP writings and hundreds of hours of audio into accurate and concise answers. This is not to "make stuff up," or to replace humans who are primary in teaching and supporting practitioners on their journey. It is to have a resource than can sift through the vast content of AYP (namely AYP Plus), and respond accurately to practitioner questions. It can also help teachers quickly assimilate the knowledge for human support, which is always going to be very important, as several have pointed out in this topic. A machine cannot experience or radiate spirituality the way humans can. But it can help humans with the task of accessing and presenting recorded knowledge.
We are finding that current AI technology can collate and present AYP content, responding accurately to the most thorny questions that can come up. Testing indicates that an AI can use the AYP content to cover questions on things like the finer points of deep meditation procedure, when and how to use mantra enhancements, handling over and under sensitivity to mantra meditation, approaches to pranayama practice from beginning to advanced, handling a wide range of kundalini issues, when and how to use self-inquiry, details on the application of asanas, mudras & bandhas, tantric practices, diet, shatkarmas, amaroli, and the many other questions on practices and experiences that can and do come up.
The AI responses are based solely on the AYP content, not on projections or assumptions by the AI. This is obviously important for maintaining the integrity of the AYP knowledge in the present, and far into the future. One of the greatest liabilities in the transmission of spiritual teachings over time is the fact that humans come and go. Writings will remain, but the interpretation of those writings (or traditional oral transmissions) by next generations of teachers and practitioners can vary. AI offers an opportunity to provide a consistent and accurate presentation of written and spoken knowledge from an original source like AYP.
So, while we may speculate about the weird science of AI in the future, it is really about preserving and accurately presenting what we humans have created in the thousands of pages of AYP writings and hundreds of hours of audio, covering every aspect of the process of human spiritual transformation.
Back in 2013-14, when AYP Plus was being developed, it was with the hope that someday an AI assistant tool could be added enabling accurate interactive access to the content being created. It appears that someday has nearly arrived.
The guru is in you.
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alain
Canada
30 Posts |
Posted - Nov 01 2024 : 04:15:27 AM
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interpaul
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2024 : 11:26:29 PM
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This topic has been on my mind quite a bit lately. Having much more experience with generative AI and images I have seen exponential growth in what AI can generate from words or sampling within an image. I asked GPT4 to comment on how it sees the next wave as GPT5 and later version evolve. I mentioned the current podcast work AYP is doing with GPT4 and this is what it predicts as next steps. Curious how others react to its predictions. I actually think it's suggestions make sense and may surprise us in the very near future, although I respect Yogani's caveat related to AI not having a traditional nervous system. Additionally as I broaden my mind on what is really meant by "relational self inquiry" it seems to me this territory, and the territory of Samyama" is definitely out of the realm of what AI would have access to.
"Here are a few ways this "next-level" functionality could work:
Idea Expansion: Imagine the model not only summarizing teachings but dynamically linking them with other concepts from related philosophies, sciences, or even speculative ideas, bringing in new layers of understanding. For example, a model could explore how specific spiritual practices might connect to modern psychology or neurobiology, offering fresh insights that may not be explicitly covered in traditional texts.
Hypothesis Generation: Beyond synthesizing, the model could generate and explore "what if" scenarios based on the teachings. For example, it could propose new meditative techniques by extrapolating from principles of mindfulness and neural plasticity or suggest novel lifestyle changes based on teachings aligned with recent research on well-being.
Personalized Guidance Pathways: An advanced model could assess a user's unique questions, background, and experiences, then propose a customized progression through teachings with tailored practices or reflections. This could be based on patterns of what has helped similar users, weaving together a kind of personalized roadmap.
Predictive Insight: This model could project how the teachings might evolve or be applied in future contexts, like in response to societal changes or technological advances. It could generate speculative but thoughtful discussions about, say, how meditation practices might adapt in the age of virtual reality or augmented reality.
Such capabilities are within reach as LLMs get more sophisticated at "learning to learn" from less explicit connections within a corpus of data, effectively becoming co-creative partners in philosophical and spiritual inquiry. This kind of model would rely on multiple neural networks working together to filter, generate, validate, and refine ideas in a much more organic way than we see with single-output models today."
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yogani
USA
5238 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2024 : 4:13:04 PM
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Hi interpaul,
Yes, the possibilities for how AI can help humanity are endless, and unimaginable. No doubt you have seen amazing advances in medical research already, perhaps moving beyond purely computational into "creative solutions."
How the rapidly increasing capabilities of AI will affect the transmission of spiritual knowledge, who can say? For now, just having an AI assistant that can accurately curate the totality of the AYP knowledgebase and respond to the many questions that come up is a pretty good thing. It is something I have wished for since the inception of AYP Plus. Based on testing so far it appears to be close at hand.
Beyond that, we should remain open, but cautious. No doubt, AI will eventually be able to model the workings of the subtle neurobiology, that which is cultivated and gives rise to the experience of human spiritual transformation. Will AI understand how spiritual practices work and be able to offer improvements for individuals and humanity as a whole? That is a ways off, I think.
When I asked the NotebookLM AI how it could help with the transmission of spiritual knowledge, it gave a pretty good answer, which for the most part is aiding in the computational aspects. Obviously, without extensive knowledge of the transformation in the subtle neurobiology resulting from spiritual practices, AI will be hard pressed to offer creative input for improving the internal process. Someday it will have the knowledge, and we will see. In the meantime, we lowly humans are doing the best we can to offer clear and effective methods of practice, and the real time support to go with them. AI will certainly be playing an increasing role in the latter in the near term. Interpreting what the practices themselves are doing inside a human being is a much more complicated matter. Research on that is needed, and AI can surely offer help.
Regarding exploring the wide world of spiritual traditions and practices out there, and looking at additions and integrations with AYP that might offer improvement in results, that has been going on for a long time already, by humans. AI can certainly do it too, but not necessarily better, because it does not have a subtle neurobiological model of human spiritual transformation yet. When it does it will be better able to make suggestions based on "other systems," and perhaps invent new approaches creatively. Time will tell, along with a lot of research on what goes on in the human subtle nervous system. In the meantime, there can also be research into other areas suggested - sociological, psychological, philosophical, etc.
The search engines already offer AI based searches, and what comes back on spiritual practices is a mixed bag. I recently asked a search engine how AYP Deep Meditation can be improved (not NotebookLM which reflects only the AYP writings), and it gave an inaccurate description of the DM technique, concluded it does not work, and recommended another technique coming from elsewhere. That kind of AI help we do not need.
So I think AI offers a lot of promise as you say. But it is going to take time, particularly to build a working model of the process of human spiritual transformation, down to the subtlest level of the neurobiology. I have no doubt that it will happen, and we will remain open to whatever it brings.
Whatever happens, the AYP writings will remain as a steady touchstone.
The guru is in you.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4512 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2024 : 2:56:03 PM
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Hi all,
One other thing to remember is that we do not actually have any evidence that a physical object can create a pranic one. It could actually be impossible, even for an AI supercomputer. If this is the case, then AI would never reach the point where it could reproduce the human subtle nervous system. If that happens, then it would never be able to have a spiritual experience. In fact, it could be the case that it could never have an experience at all, but only have the ability to seem as if it is experiencing things. This would be the same as the fact that a camera never actually experiences a beautiful sunset, even though it can produce an image of that sunset, and a CD can never experience a piece of music, even though it can record and reproduce that music. If this is the case, then it will always be no more than a series of zeros and ones on a screen, even if those zeros and ones are displayed in increasingly complex ways.
If this is the case, the AI would never be able to guide someone spiritually, based on experience. It would always have to rely on the experience of humans, or Higher Beings, and would always be fallible, as it would not be able to check what it is saying against its own experience. We also do not have any evidence that Higher Beings are able to interface with things made of matter, so AI may never be able to check spiritual advice with Higher Beings. Its limit may be that it becomes a very good way of accessing and presenting spiritual teachings given by humans.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2024 : 06:09:43 AM
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Think of the possibilities of AI within a humanoid robot. That was what I was pointing to in my post above. It will redefine human relationships.
Sey
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AI Generated Podcasts on AYP!
