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interpaul
USA
525 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 08 2021 : 1:53:46 PM
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quote:
Suffering is the product of identification of awareness with cycles of pleasure and pain. Pleasure and pain will happen, but suffering can be transcended by cultivating abiding inner silence (the witness) in deep meditation. Yogani
I read this quote in lesson 348.1 today and it got me thinking about my ongoing struggles with pleasure and the resulting pain that is experienced when the pleasure wanes or just in being acutely aware of the attachment to the pleasure. AYP, as Yogani points out in this quote is about cultivating abiding inner silence to transcend identification with these states of mind. My simplistic understanding of the AYP process is blending inner silence(shiva) with ecstatic(shakti) leads to unity. Duality to non duality. The challenge is I am still fairly grounded in this duality. Until the inner silence becomes abiding I continue the practices regularly. I personally have not been able to transcend the pull to the ecstatic and therefore experience pain in that attachment. Even when I eliminate the ecstatic practices I still experirence ecstatic even in DM. The advice I've received is this is a stage and either be patient or self pace more. Although I realize this process is different for everyone I wonder how long it typically takes for the abiding phase of inner silence to develop. I've been consistently doing my practices for 20 months now and continue to find my attachment to the ecstatic growing. |
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zamolxes
Romania
93 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2021 : 5:32:18 PM
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Hello interpaul,
Although I may not have a proper answer, since in my case it happened somewhat in the background before ultimately finding myself not affected by these experiences, and because each one may find himself with an unique view of his path and his learnings, I hope to help you somehow.
First, from what I understood, Yogani says in a lesson that transcending karma is not about leaving attachment behind, but exiting the circle that repeats itself. Let's say, in my case I was at a crossroads in high school. In one direction I had the highs and lows of smoking cannabis, and in the other I had discipline. Eventually with hardships, for a while I travelled both roads, and they both took me to the same place, leaving my addiction behind. Smoking would leave me feeling guilty, and not doing it would leave me tempted, and well, amidst the suffering I managed to leave it behind.
Then, after starting ayp I rapidly purified my body of many chunks of floating karma. Which gave me a high in and of itself, the ecstasy of practices, the feeling of power of samyama, the understanding of silence. I was getting high again without knowing it. The karma I believed I transcended, didn't transcend me, so you see it goes both ways. Then came a time when I had to close the contract I had been a part of, and everything I put behind caught up with me, again months of floating through fog, smoking weed and getting fancy around my spirituality, only now I was somehow aware of it all, watching it unfold.
Now, not trying to control it, not having hopes for myself, not blaming me and neither complacing myself I found myself one day actually awoke, knowing fully that this was it, that I was free just like that, with no effort from my part.
I was free of my addictions, and since then I can't drink even a sip of beer. (Of course the devils still whispers at my ears from time to time when I meet those friends, but with no power). I was free of the pride I got from being on the path, I just did my practices because the practices had became me. I still have as you know, inner devils hiding from myself, desires and whatnot, but there's something gone it seems, that I'm not fully aware of. It's like playing the guitar, once you get it you are all blissed out, then each time you find yourself getting better and sounding better you feel higher and higher. And then it comes a time when it becomes part of you, and you don't feel anything at all, except life.
So then, I would say that until the glass is full of water (attachment) and it gets out, there's not much to do, afterwards it will become a joke. And it is better than having an inner conflict with your drives. Staying there, watching the spontaneity of the unconscious, and seeing it as a play rather than a serious matter would make the burden lighter, the same I guess for the conscious part clinging to an idea of detachment.
So, stay strong interpaul ( or was it soft?  ) And eventually release each though that's part of this conglomeration into stillness as it comes. |
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zamolxes
Romania
93 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2021 : 5:49:49 PM
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| Oh, it may also help to lay down the pranayama for a while and focus only on deep meditation. When I feel my ecstatic conductivity as a cage that traps me from the boundlesness of silence I stop the spb, or do it with shorter breaths for a minute or two just for oxygenation. And for a couple of weeks just do dm and a rep of each sutra in samyama favoring an inner silence over an outer expanse. Hope this helps too |
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Dogboy
USA
2201 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2021 : 8:35:48 PM
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quote:
I continue the practices regularly. I personally have not been able to transcend the pull to the ecstatic and therefore experience pain in that attachment. Even when I eliminate the ecstatic practices I still experirence ecstatic even in DM. The advice I've received is this is a stage and either be patient or self pace more. Although I realize this process is different for everyone I wonder how long it typically takes for the abiding phase of inner silence to develop. I've been consistently doing my practices for 20 months now and continue to find my attachment to the ecstatic growing.
After eight years DM can still be very ecstatic for me, stronger after a few weeks of bramacharya and weaker after release. The thing is silence is there in the energy already, your ability to sense it may not quite be mature yet, and DM will get you there at some point. I have been blessed with the siddi of detecting silence as white noise in my left ear, and attention on it “turns up the volume”. Whenever I am swept up in arousal, putting attention there stabilizes the experience. And Zamolxes has a point, you may not need but a few rounds of SBP before DM since you find arousal so easily.
The pain you do feel is navigating your troubles regarding attaching to pleasure. EC can be stoked by attention, do you believe you are intentionally stoking arousal? Do you enter a sitting expecting it? At your stage of the game, you have the ability and attention to do so. In strong arousal I often ask myself “can I let be and surrender this?” and often what follows is a feeling of surrender, much like passing a samyama sutra. The pleasure is still there for enjoyment, and so is the knowledge and satisfaction I am not attached because of the intention to radiate it freely. The ability to feel energy means your attention and intentions have power behind them. Maybe having the intention of “amplifying silence” and “radiating arousal” might bring you to become comfortable with pleasure. |
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interpaul
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2021 : 12:41:48 AM
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Zamolxes, Thanks for your thoughts on this. I can relate to letting go of some of my attachments since starting AYP. As Yogani discusses in his lessons on addiction our attachments loosen with the practices and eventually we don't need them as much. My core struggle is around increased pleasurable energy as the practices themselves intensify these energies. It seems the goal is to slowly purify our neurobiology to allow the divine light to shine from within us.
Dogboy, I appreciate your perspective. I realize I must sound like a broken record to you. I do hear the inner silence when I bring attention to it during quiet times. As my practices have matured I feel the ecstatic energies at the same time as I hear the silence. In fact they both seem to be much more interconnected lately. My fear around this is a bit complicated. On the one hand I sense the AYP path is intended to develop our capacity to channel these ever growing energies as I allude to above. On that front, I don't feel compelled to dial it back as I sense the goal is to acclimate to these higher energies. Since I haven't been troubled by any recent panic attacks I feel better in control of the energies. Where my ongoing concern surfaces is around the intensification of these pleasurable feelings. On that front I do feel attached to them. The greater the pleasure the more my fear creeps in wondering if I will get to a point where they will control me. There seems to be two messages I hear. The teachings encourage preservation and cultivation of the kundalini energy with the goal of wedding it with the inner silence. While at the same time ultimately we are not supposed to be attached to that energy as it causes suffering. We are also given the message again and again this is not a race but a marathon, e.g. Rome isn't built in a day. Approaching 2 years doing these practices consistently I feel I've been pretty patient but I don't think I have the patience to dial everything back and just wait for years to see changes. The idea of "radiating arousal" seems more like a concept to me. When I embrace my wife and radiate the energy it comes back to me even stronger. I will work on putting more attention/intention towards "amplifying silence" as that may have a greater yield. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4379 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2021 : 06:45:49 AM
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Hi Interpaul,
2 years is a very short amount of time to have been on the spiritual path for. It is really just the beginning of the path. The first few years. So, I would say to cultivate patience and equanimity and settle in for the long run.
As for how long it takes to cultivate inner silence (samadhi), that depends on the person and on the level of practice that we are doing. For some it comes relatively quickly, but others have a lot of attachments that have to be dissolved first. People often spend many years developing attachments before they begin a spiritual practice, and so it can take many years to undo all of that. Some people go through life without developing many attachments, and so they have much less work to do when they begin the spiritual path.
When it comes to dealing with excessive amounts of ecstasy, you need to ask yourself the question: "Am I self-pacing effectively?". If you are experiencing so much ecstasy that it is disturbing your meditations and disturbing your ability to cultivate inner silence, then it is a good idea to cut back on practices. This would mean cutting back on practices until you reach a level where you can practice without the ecstasy being so strong that it is disturbing your meditation.
Once inner silence becomes well established, you will find that there can be any amount of ecstasy present in the body and it will not disturb your inner silence. But whilst you are getting there, it is good to regulate things so that you are not experiencing too many distracting energies. You can also make use of the procedure in lesson 15, if you are experiencing so much ecstasy that you cannot return to the mantra in meditation. Simply rest your attention with the ecstatic energies for a while until they dissolve. They may remain for the whole duration of your meditation, which is fine too. It is possible to cultivate samadhi whilst meditating on ecstasy.
At some point the whole process will change into something else, due to the natural merging of ecstasy with bliss resulting in Divine love. But this tends to happen when we are not looking for it. It comes when we fully surrender.
Christi |
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interpaul
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Feb 09 2021 : 4:28:43 PM
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Christi, Thank you for your support and guidance. I will work on cultivating patience and equanimity.  |
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Dogboy
USA
2201 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2021 : 10:17:11 AM
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quote:
Dogboy, I appreciate your perspective. I realize I must sound like a broken record to you.
The whole point of records are to listen again and again! 
Radiating arousal is a concept, all intentions are concepts of will and the mind. It is an action I assign the mind. It is a placebo, an experiment in grounding, a playful act. It is born from samyama practice. I trust this action as it seems to accomplish stability in me, for others results could vary. Inner guru values positive intentions to share in this way, to ground daily and to act beyond my skin.
“Creeping fear” and “not having the patience for...” are also concepts you are, on some level, assigning the mind. How can you spin it into a positive intention? |
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interpaul
USA
525 Posts |
Posted - Feb 10 2021 : 12:02:01 PM
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| Dogboy, I really like how you engage in the world. I tried "amplifying silence" over the last couple days and am finding it helpful. As a result I went much deeper into stillness during my meditation this morning. Although radiating arousal is a "concept" I haven't yet been successful at I like the idea of releasing that and other good intentions into the world samyama style rather than focusing on the negative concepts. |
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Identification with cycles of pleasure and pain
