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Still
Ireland
19 Posts |
 Posted - May 09 2020 : 10:28:37 AM
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Yes but remember experiences can be a distraction...and an attachment...
"So, in emptiness, there is no body,
no feeling, no thought,
no will, no consciousness.
There are no eyes, no ears,
no nose, no tongue,
no body, no mind.
There is no seeing, no hearing,
no smelling, no tasting,
no touching, no imagining.
There is nothing seen, nor heard,
nor smelled, nor tasted,
nor touched, nor imagined."
(From the Heart Sutra) |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2020 : 11:18:54 AM
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Indeed , very well said Still
That is what i was trying to explain to Piruz |
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Piruz
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2020 : 5:33:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Still
Yes but remember experiences can be a distraction...and an attachment...
"So, in emptiness, there is no body,
no feeling, no thought,
no will, no consciousness.
There are no eyes, no ears,
no nose, no tongue,
no body, no mind.
There is no seeing, no hearing,
no smelling, no tasting,
no touching, no imagining.
There is nothing seen, nor heard,
nor smelled, nor tasted,
nor touched, nor imagined."
(From the Heart Sutra)
I don't recall ever disputing that. I am not attached to experiences nor am I trying to reproduce them. Quite the opposite. I am trying to work around them and outgrow them for the "experiences" I'm seeing are all inconvenient. This is why I asked what happens after Kundalini and how to an understanding of the dynamics can aid in the process of grounding (another subject I need to understand more fully, which is why I'd dedicated a separate thread for the issue of grounding but have yet to receive any response). |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2020 : 7:26:40 PM
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I doubt any of your recent experiences will kill or harm you, especially after you’ve been checked out medically. My suggest is to continue grounding, continue observation (in a journal perhaps?), and then release your attention and see what tomorrow brings, rinse and repeat. Your experiences are random, moving targets; journaling accomplishes three things: tracking patterns over time, writing brings them from the interior to the exterior, and lastly, by closing your journal and getting on with your day, you grant yourself opportunity to hand them off until the next day.
Mentioned earlier: service to others. When your attention is on helping others, it is no longer on yourself, and in that manner should provide grounding/relief. |
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Piruz
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2020 : 7:49:16 PM
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Dogboy, that's pretty much what I'm doing, so your advice is something I can definitely relate to.
I still want to know, however, what becomes of me after this Kundalini ordeal (after all the Chakras have been opened) and what to expect when the energy reaches the head (which, according to the pattern I've come to observe in my body, seems inevitable)?
Maheswari answered this but his experiences don't seem to mimic my own. The Prana in me is clearly traveling in a linear fashion, that is, upwards, and lack of grounding for the past 4 months has been something which I've come to regret because the Prana had nothing to chew on for months and went viral later on (hence the heart Chakra episode). I won't make the same mistake again. But what happens after the head/crown? |
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Still
Ireland
19 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2020 : 01:56:25 AM
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Didn't say you disputed it... This passage is a beautiful written reminder for me too  |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2020 : 03:44:22 AM
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Hello Piruz
Maheswari is a she not a he
after the kundalini travels whatever way that works to your own neurobiology and it calms down , it will blend with inner silence (if you cultivate it by grounding) and you will barely notice its effects anymore. And as i keep saying, meanwhile and after that grounding happens, you will just continue your life, as per the Buddhist saying: before enlightenment chop wood carry water, after enlightenment chop wood carry water |
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Piruz
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2020 : 8:09:52 PM
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Maheswari, I'm sorry I wasn't aware.
Yes, this is exactly why I'm posting all these questions. I simply want to know if these symptoms are normal/transitory. A deeper (though not overwhelmingly analytical) understanding of the process is something I've always longed for. It's who I am. Making sense of something means making peace. By that I don't mean a full, analytical and scientifically applicable understanding of the various Kundalini symptoms but at the very least something that can integrate them into a scheme, whichever it might be.
#1612;Regarding the post-Kundalini issue, has anyone here actually been through a full-blown Prana awakening that started from the root and ended up in the crown? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2020 : 04:45:36 AM
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Hi Piruz,
quote:
Yes, this is exactly why I'm posting all these questions. I simply want to know if these symptoms are normal/transitory. A deeper (though not overwhelmingly analytical) understanding of the process is something I've always longed for. It's who I am. Making sense of something means making peace.
Your symptoms are quite normal for someone who has been overdoing spiritual practices and not grounding effectively. And they are also transitory. With effective self-pacing and grounding they will settle down over time.
If you want to gain a good understanding of the whole process of kundalini then I would recommend reading the main lessons on this website. They start here.
For what happens when kundalini reaches the crown see this lesson.
Lesson 199 - Managing the Opening of the Crown
The crown is not the final resting place for kundalini. After it has reached the crown it will come back down into the heart and radiate out from there.
See this lesson on that:
Lesson 274 - What's the End Game in Yoga?
Christi
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Piruz
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2020 : 10:01:37 PM
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I've read all the lessons, but a revisit is always something I never regretted, so I'll do just that.
But what do you mean "it will come back down into the heart and radiate out from there"? In what sense will it "radiate out"? |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2020 : 11:49:38 PM
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| As I haven’t had this experience (yet), I’ll go out on a limb and say energy spills forth so that the boundaries of “inside” and “outside” are no longer clear and no longer matter. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2020 : 07:59:57 AM
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Hi Piruz,
quote:
But what do you mean "it will come back down into the heart and radiate out from there"? In what sense will it "radiate out"?
At a certain stage on the path, prana begins to radiate out from the body. This is referred to as ecstatic radiance. It is not limited to the heart, but can radiate out from the whole body as well.
See here:
Lesson 90 - Caduceus Correction and Ida/Pingala Review
"This is a key thing to understand about the nervous system. We begin with the limited physical dimensions where the nerves are located in our body. Then, as kundalini awakens and ecstatic radiance rises, the physical dimensions are left behind. So, a nadi, or spiritual nerve, only corresponds with physical nerves in the beginning. As it is awakened, a nadi expands, radiating energy far beyond the physical location of the nerve. There are two ways of looking at this. We can say we are "going within," traveling in an expanding inner dimension. It feels like that as the sensory experience expands inside. The other way of looking at it is to say we are "expanding outward" in the physical dimension. In other words, expansion on the inner plane is the same as expanding outwardly in the physical dimension. We have to go in to go out. Those who have had kundalini experiences have described the energy going beyond the body as they are expanding inwardly at the same time. Anyone who comes to deep silence in meditation feels this expansion also - going in, but also radiating something peaceful out into the physical world. Whether the experience is the expansion of an awakened kundalini or the expanding silence of pure bliss consciousness in meditation, this is the nadis expanding. Both are different levels of the same thing. It is all the expansion of pure bliss consciousness." [Yogani]
Christi
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - May 13 2020 : 9:57:43 PM
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What a beautiful passage.  |
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Piruz
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - May 14 2020 : 9:30:52 PM
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That's interesting. I've actually read all of Yogani's lessons months ago but obviously being in the middle of a crises one tends to overlook or forget. This makes a revisit necessary.
It appears I've exhausted the members' ability to add more to this thread. The reason I was into meditation in the first place was to add more to my life, to become more. Now, thanks to Kundalini, I've lost whatever peace I had without (yet?) achieving any goal. I understand, of course, that to get more (better still, the ultimate more) one must first relinquish what they have (or some of it, I hope), but I really hope this ultimate peace materializes and I'm not forever stuck "in the middle".
No wonder why Kundalini is not for the faint of heart! |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2020 : 06:12:44 AM
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Hi Piruz,
The spiritual path is a long path and there is a lot of inner purification that needs to be done. It is good to think in terms of decades rather than years. It will take some time for you to recover from the situation that you are in and then you will be able to move forwards again.
When you are in a position to be able to take up meditation again, I would advise starting at lesson 10 and proceeding slowly from there, following the lessons as you go. It is important to have a spiritual practice which is safe and balanced and can lead you all the way home.
Christi |
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Piruz
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - May 15 2020 : 7:59:58 PM
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Decades huh? I wonder exactly how many decades of their lives a man has to spare.
Spoiled! |
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2020 : 03:51:58 AM
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it could be lifetimes
speaking from a relative aspect |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2020 : 06:32:14 AM
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Hi Piruz,
quote:
Decades huh? I wonder exactly how many decades of their lives a man has to spare.
I think the real question you need to ask yourself is: "How serious am I about taking this journey?". If the answer is, "not very", then fair enough. You could go and do something else instead. But if you are serious, then you need to decide what to do about it. It is a serious commitment.
The spiritual path is not for everyone, and it may not be for you. But if you decide that it is, then you have the tools to move forwards. It's your call.
Christi |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2020 : 06:42:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Piruz
...The reason I was into meditation in the first place was to add more to my life, to become more. Now, thanks to Kundalini, I've lost whatever peace I had without (yet?) achieving any goal. I understand, of course, that to get more (better still, the ultimate more) one must first relinquish what they have (or some of it, I hope), but I really hope this ultimate peace materializes and I'm not forever stuck "in the middle".
It’s not about gaining more, it’s about losing everything!
Sey
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maheswari
Lebanon
2520 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2020 : 1:30:18 PM
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Exactly Sey
A short quote by Adyashanti:
'Make no mistake about it, enlightenment is a destructive process. It has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier. Enlightenment is the crumbling away of untruth. It is seeing through the facade pf pretense. It is the complete eradication of everything we imagined to be true"
So Piruz, many have already given you all the answers you need in this thread and many in ayp forums speak from direct experience , you are not satisfied cause the mind wants a reply that suits with its views and beliefs, the latest one is that you seem to be in a rush and to add things to your life.I suggest that you really ponder the whole thread replies and especially the last reply from Christi
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Piruz
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2020 : 6:49:31 PM
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I don't believe spirituality is an essentially destructive process. Some things are destroyed, perhaps many things, and the safe-zone of the mind is threatened, and it is that which does violence to the brain. But many things are preserved and even selected/magnified, the very things (tendencies) that started the spiritual development in the old mind, and it is on these old things that the new mind thrives and becomes. Even in radical change, there are foundations. This applies to the mind as well as phenomena outside the mind. A mental breakdown is only that, a temporary fight-or-flight response to the overwhelming nature of the experience.
Yes, I started meditation as a self-help tool, but that was years ago. Even before the outbreak of my Kundalini last year, I began to realize that meditation was no therapy, but a transformation. Little did I know, however, that this transformation would spiral out of control and threaten the very foundations on which it was built in the first place. |
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Piruz
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - May 16 2020 : 7:57:03 PM
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Okay I just came across something which might help answer my original question. As it were, after all the Chakras have been cleared and "opened up", there comes a period of "free energy circulation" or "free Prana circulation" throughout the body. I picked this up from a Chinese-affiliated group which, I think, utilizes the concept of Chi instead of Prana or Kundalini.
This is what I meant when I asked "what happens after Prana awakening". At the very least I've found a name or concept for it now. How does this "free energy circulation" affect the body and the mind and what surprises should one expect?
Why couldn't someone mention this concept before? My question was fairly straightforward and there was no need to dwell on the philosophical/wide-ranging aspects of Kundalini.
Christi mentioned "ecstatic radiation from the heart" after the energy has started to travel downwards from the head, and that was the only precise answer I'd gotten. This is the kind of conversation I wanted to have. |
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interpaul
USA
551 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2020 : 12:42:21 PM
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Piruz, I came to AYP after exploring Taoist meditation which focused on chi. I had done the microcosmic orbit meditations. Once I started SBP I realized it was a very similar practice. I felt I understood this stuff and felt I could modify Yogani's suggestions because I had a sense of the bigger picture. One day while doing the SBP meditation I finally tried something different, I actually focused on the exact way he suggested it be done. It surprised me how the subtle difference created a different feeling in my body. Now a year later I can say it is very different. The discoveries only came with practice and letting go of my predetermined beliefs about how things should be. Whether we call this energy Prana or Chi or Kundalini its the same stuff, just different words. Having read over your questions and the groups answers above, I sense a similar resistance to acceptance of Yogan's practices as is. I think there are a couple things going on here. On the one hand, you have experienced an emotionally traumatic experience from which you are trying to recover. You will get better over time if you follow the excellent guidance you've received. The second issue is related to the desire for more, for change. Most of us want to have magical experiences, spiritual powers, enlightenment. We don't realize what that really means until we've gone down the path for some time. It's a little like marriage. We may come to marriage with a fantasy about how it will be, what we will get out of it. Over time we realize it is more about the other person than ourselves. If we come into it with a selfish motivation, it will fail. The path of enlightenment has the trappings of a greater attachment to ego, clinging to pleasure or avoiding the challenges of real life.
What I'm saying is, give yourself time to heal. Follow the guidance you've received here and get help from the medical establishment/therapists if you are open to their guidance. Once you've found your way back to a more stable place, consider starting at the beginning and make a commitment to the practices one step at a time, trusting Yogani's very clear instructions and be willing to proceed slowly. It will take years. If you are in a rush, this isn't for you.The path of enlightenment is likely not for most. I would spend some time exploring what your real motivations for this path are. Are you seeking power, pleasure, control? In Yogani's book The Secret's of Wilder, he tells the story of a fictional character who looses a lot to follow his calling for this path. Why are YOU on this path? Lastly, I'm not sure how old you are. Being in my 50s I believe this type of practice may be more difficult for younger people given their deeper attachment to the biological imperatives. Good luck to you, I hope you find peace on your path. |
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Piruz
United Kingdom
73 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2020 : 9:46:38 PM
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Hi interpaul,
As mentioned before I am actually tired of overwhelming experiences, be they magical or horrific, because even if they are "magical" this always comes with a heavy price, perhaps too heavy. Slow but sure progress is the way to go. This is, after all, how life evolved on our planet, slowly but surely. I may have not understood this before my Kundalini erupted over a year ago, but it's my philosophy today.
So you see, I'm not craving miracles or superpowers, but rather an effective self-pacing regime to slow down whatever is happening to me (be it good or bad or both). Self-pacing as outlined in Yogani's lessons are, alone, ineffective, since the most "grounding" practice outlined is to abandon spiritual practices altogether and "indulge for the time being in the world around you", which clearly isn't enough since, as already outlined, all the Prana flow is happening to me naturally and spontaneously and the Chakras are opening up one after another.
Cardio exercises have been helpful in getting the energy to move around more smoothly and get over "blockages", but after a cooling off period of 4 months my heart chakra opened up suddenly (this Kundalini ordeal always strikes at times of crises!) and I have grown even more desperate for a more dynamic (and practical) understanding of this whole energy grounding thing and finally what I should expect once all the Chakras have been opened up.
I came across this post-Chakra opening "free energy circulation" concept at some Chinese meditation group, and I'm really finding it interesting.
I trust in the process, I really do, but you can't expect a man to be in the dark forever (even God eventually reveals himself!). It's always good to gain a minimum degree of practical (practical, not metaphysical or philosophical) understanding of the process because, as you yourself said, huge differences emerge due to very subtle changes. |
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - May 17 2020 : 10:23:50 PM
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Hi Piruz,
The process of kundalini awakening varies from person to person. Some do not go through a kundalini process, some do, and some are born with it already developed to various levels. While some experience intense symptoms, some less, and for others the process goes smoothly. A simple analogy is a garden hose: When you turn the faucet and the water starts to come, any blockage in the hose will be blown away by the water pressure. If the water pressure is too much for the hose, it becomes hard to control and may be damaged. This friction is experienced as discomfort.
As you know, yoga practices are designed to clean our nervous system (nadis and chakras), so the kundalini energy can rise without difficulty on the proper paths. In the process, the entire nervous system and body are transformed, as you write, and they become able to handle more and more energy. You really do not need more energy now. If you think that this is as much as it could go, it is good to keep in mind that the energy is limitless – and pushing through could make things worse.
If you do feel inspired to pray for help, this will help you, but do not ask for what you do not need. Do it with the attitude “May it be Your Will, not mine.” Pray for relief from symptoms, support on the spiritual path, pray for guidance, pray to find out who you are. You will get help, and probably not in the form you expect.
Some of the psychological symptoms you experience, with nightmares and anxiety, suggest the presence of trauma. As Kundalini rises, there is an intense process of restoration and renovation – get out of its way, allow it to happen, support it. There will be a lot of releases and you do not need to get involved in every single one of them. But if you cannot let them go, then look for help from a spiritual guide, a psychologist, a therapist. As we go in, everything reveals to us, all our layers, all our problems and treasures. They all have to be takes in, accepted, healed, and integrated. The more of this work you do now, the less you will have to deal with later.
As about spirituality as a destructive process, maybe a clearing process is a better description. If The Divine, the Absolute, the Infinite is everywhere, this means that surely is here, it is in you, it is you. But is this your experience? Do you see the Divine everywhere? The end game of the spiritual practice does not add something to you, but it “corrects” the fundamental misperception that there are things separate from the Divine. It is like taking the impurities out of the eyes so we could see what is really here!
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Edited by - Blanche on May 17 2020 10:25:54 PM |
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What happens after Prana/Kundalini?
