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Anthem
1608 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 30 2006 : 11:51:59 PM
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Some thoughts I wrote down recently that I wanted to share.
* * *
I fell in love, she told me how she loved me, how she wanted me, that I was beautiful, funny, smart, wise, she cherished me, I felt needed. Did I change, did I suddenly become all of this? When the love ended I felt a loss, why? Was I somehow less? Did I somehow change or am I the same and is it only the perception of myself that has changed?
I want so desperately to be these things that I look to another to make it true for me, to fill the hole inside me which needs this, which believes that I am not. I want someone to think these things to make it true, but she is no longer around. I want her to tell me again how wonderful I am, I haven’t heard it for a while, I promise I will believe again if someone will just tell me again, at least for a little while…
I am all of these things if I believe I am, if I just decide that it is true, but I can’t, I need someone to convince me again…
I know somewhere deep down that I already am everything, that I just don’t believe it yet. What does it take to live and be this truth that I know but can’t feel…
I keep looking for fulfillment, for completion outside of myself, out in this world, but it never lasts, I need to realize this, that only I can fulfill me, that it is what I believe and think about me that matters.
I need me, I need me to love me, to want me and to care for me, this will never change. I don’t need anyone else to do this for me, I need me to do this for me. I need to stop looking outside of myself for completion, I am already complete!
It’s me that I have been looking for, it has always been me…It’s not out there, it’s in here and it always has been… |
Edited by - Anthem on Nov 30 2006 11:54:43 PM |
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lucidinterval1
USA
193 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 01:00:19 AM
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Man, there are a slew of people that need that realization. Searching for acceptance is a pitfall for all of us. Maybe I could buy a corvette or wear some fancy duds so that people could say "Man, that Paul is really together!"
From my perspective, I am living in an outstanding situation. I have a lovely, caring, spiritual, intelligent wife. Two collegebound daughters that are everything that I could have hoped for. Yet I still find myself trying to be everything back to them. To be thought of, the way that I think of them.
This morning I was preparing turkey soup from the Thanksgiving leftovers. My family really loves this soup emmensely. Well, I couldn't get it finished in time. I had to leave for work. I felt so bummed that I let them down. What's up with that???? They were all greatful that I got it started and we could enjoy soup tomorrow.
I guess that we are just really hard on ourselves and we want others to confirm that we are OK.
By the way Anthem, you are really OK in my book - if that's any consolation.
With Peace and Respect,
Paul |
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 06:02:25 AM
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I recognize this all but too well... You put it into words so nicely!
The moments I am truly happy is when I understand that:
I do not need anyone out there to confirm my intelligence, my wits, my looks, my sex appeal, my femininity, my humour, my knowledge... All those qualities are subjective mind-products, and they are not me. If anyone confirms those things... they are still not confirming what is truly ME, although my ego would like to take the honour of it.  I am not seen, if the person I am with is commenting on those things. And it leaves a frustration and a hole inside. I can never get enough confirmation anyway.
Noone out there can give me anything I don't already have! Therefore I need nothing.
Everytime this truth hits me and I realize this I am at ease. Incredible feeling of freedom!
I have noticed that the phenomenon of smiling is a perfect measure of how deep this truth have landed inside. If I smile at someone and the person does not smile back it often gives me a feeling of disappointment and a feeling that is a bit awkward - it diminishes the good mood I had that made me smile in the first place. That is - what I WANTED was confirmation from the other person. If I smile at a person with NO cunning plans of getting a similar response in return for the cause of my personal well-being - then his or her response is not able to change my inner feeling of joy that originally made me happy. I can also meet a person and chose not to smile if I don't feel like it. I do not have to put up a mask. I am not afraid of being seen as a serious or grumpy person. What others think about me is irrelevant.
Now smiling is rather pleasent so I smile whenever because it affects the environment positively most of the times, but it is a great measure of how dependent I am of others confirmation. That is - how separated I am from my true self...
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 07:09:34 AM
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I have the feeling that in order to say this and really mean it you must fall into one of the following categories:
1. Very enlightened being almost inhuman 
2. Someone who doesn't really feel romantic love at the moment.
3. Someone who already has a good relationship.
4. A mix of any 2 or more of the above a la Yogani.
Since I at present don't fit in any of these 4 categories this 'realization' is as far as 'we are all one' 'everything is love' and such like |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 07:43:37 AM
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Hi Lili,
quote:
I have the feeling that in order to say this and really mean it you must fall into one of the following categories:
1. Very enlightened being almost inhuman
2. Someone who doesn't really feel romantic love at the moment.
3. Someone who already has a good relationship.
4. A mix of any 2 or more of the above a la Yogani.
I feel love continuously flowing out of my heart. It is true that I am in a good relationship, so no. 3 would apply, but the love that I feel is not related or dependent upon that relationship (no offence to my lovely partner). The love I feel flows from me all the time, and flows to everyone and everything around me. It is not a romantic love at all. If I separated from my partner, the love would not change one bit. I believe this is what unconditional means. It is a constant background feeling and sometimes becomes very overwhelming and consuming. When I think about it it becomes stronger. But I am certainly not very enlightened or almost inhuman.
I really believe it is true what Yogani says, that bliss and ecstasy merge in the heart and flow out as divine love! And I think this process can begin a long time before enlightenment.
L&L
Christi
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 07:54:44 AM
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Hi Christi!
What can I say: touché. Now seriously: I am very happy for you.
Greetings from the realm of somewhat less extatic and blissful beings,
Lili
P.S You are beginning to pile up empirical evidence in support of my little theory here |
Edited by - Lili on Dec 01 2006 07:55:23 AM |
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ranger
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 12:05:22 PM
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In more than a quarter century of spiritual practice, the greatest mistakes I've made derived from burying my own reactions to events in favor of how I thought a spiritual person was supposed to think and feel.
A friend in a twelve step program put it this way: "One of the quickest ways to go nuts is to try to match your insides to other people's outsides."
Many years ago I managed to convince myself that I was in "acceptance of God's will" after a tragic event, when I wasn't at all, and that led me to a choice I'll reget to my last day in this life and probably beyond it.
The "carrot" on the spiritual path is huge; the promise of a kind of Oneness with all creation, in unconditional love. Kind of the perfect drug with no side effects. I want some of that! It's just that I no longer think I can get there by pulling some kind of transcendence manouver: trying to be "above" all my messiness and worldliness. Like the Bible stories, where Jesus stopped to heal the broken people who were sitting in the dirt on the side of the road, not the smart set who were cruisin' through life.
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 1:25:11 PM
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| Great post, Ranger. |
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Balance
USA
967 Posts |
Posted - Dec 01 2006 : 1:52:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott
Great post, Ranger.
Ditto on that!
Great posts everyone! This stuff is where the real thing is at. The Heart of the matter. I'm even inclined to think that transcendental heights are ultimately nothing without realizing that it's right here in all its divine gory. Can't have One without the other half.
Blessings |
Edited by - Balance on Dec 01 2006 2:26:22 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2006 : 09:57:07 AM
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Hi Andrew. Let me start off by saying.. you have expressed real beautifully what I feel in my life too. I too have a constant need of approval from my family, kids, colleagues, friends..
Just keep one thing in mind though. Falling in love, triggers a whole lot of chemical and hormonal reactions in our body. The way you feel when you walk hand in hand, the candle light dinner, that music you share... it all triggers your body to make chemicals that make you happy. It is like an addiction.. And now that she is gone.. your body is trying to get over that addiction cold turkey. That cannot be easy.
What we are trying to do with Yoga is get ourselves into that "in love" state all the time. Like Christi has said above, he feels constant love flowing from him, and even if his wife leaves him he will still feel just as much love for her then, as he does now. I have had glimpses of this.. short periods when I feel love for everything and everyone around.. it does not last.. but it is the same feeling as being in love .. just not with one person, but everything around you.
So don't be too hard on yourself.. its not just a matter of self inq that needs to work here.. its also a time for the body to get used to not having the chemicals to make it happy... and till we are all purified and in the state of constant outpouring of divine love.. we will all go through heartbreaks.. and our ups and downs.. Inquiry will help, but there is not much you can do about the hormones or the heartaches..
I will second Paul and say.. don't be too hard on yourself and Andrew You are a big "a OK" in my books too.  |
Edited by - Shanti on Dec 02 2006 09:58:10 AM |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2006 : 1:19:16 PM
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Anthem
quote:
I am all of these things if I believe I am, if I just decide that it is true, but I can’t, I need someone to convince me again
We are not things.....any thing. I will not convince you otherwise, Andrew. On the contrary. Your belief that you are, is exactly what stands in your way. You are right - truth "cannot" be decided. That would be adding butter to fat....completely redundant. It just is. Whether you decide to or not. When it is raining....do you desire to believe it is raining? You, don't have too, do you? When it rains it rains. Period. Only now are we wet from the rain.
So. What you resist is the fact that you are not. You are not. This is the hole. You resist this hole. But in accepting the space left open...when the clutter of the thought that you are has dropped.....in this space I am. See
quote:
What does it take to live and be this truth that I know but can’t feel…
It is rather the other way around, Andrew.
You see....you still think that you don't know. Be utterly honest...utterly naked....and tell: Do you really know? And if you admit that you don't know....then how does that make you feel? ......The hole again....yes? Don't fill this hole with beliefs! The belief that you are will never satisfy you. Only the real will fulfill. Only Being.
quote:
I need to realize this, that only I can fulfill me, that it is what I believe and think about me that matters.
Is it?
What if this indicates that you will never realize this? Who is it that judges? Who is it that keeps telling you what you need or not need to do? Who is talking? Is it not just another "me"?
But listen.....who is it that is aware of your pain, Andrew? Is it a thought? No. It is awareness. Is it not the same one that is aware of your Joy? The same one that is aware that I am sitting here typing these words? With...or without this judgement inside ("I need to so and so....")....with or without this thought we still shine. Our light is still here. As always. Be quiet and stay with this. Stay with I am. Not the thought. The fact. Just for five seconds.....be still.. .. .
See
At first, it is just nothing. But this nothing is all. Don't take my word for it. Just.....be still. Dare to be empty now. Right now. What is here all the time is constantly overlooked, simply because we seek it elsewhere.
quote:
I need me, I need me to love me, to want me and to care for me
Do you? Who are saying these things?
Me is itself the very need. It is me that needs. When me needs, it looks for love. Let it look. It is ok. But behind me I am. A shift of focus. Not focusing on the objects in the room....rather see the space itself. Mind (me) cannot grasp it. One can only Be it. See? When you need....it is always an indication that you have identified with some concept or thought. "Me" is made of concepts and thoughts. That is all it is. So the very thought that you need something - (and if you identify with this thought to the exclusion of the livingness that is right here ) - is clouding your perception of what is here. Mind you...the thought can be here....it is ok....just don't identify with it. Identify with stillness instead. Presence.
I wrote somewhere in this forum that "I am not here to save the world, I am here to be myself....and if that's selfish, then so be it".
*laughing*
Selfish indeed! Utterly selfish! Some would say that I should be ashamed of myself. But what good will that shame do? I see the lie, though. Now I see. And in this seeing is the realization that
- it doesn't matter now! Not one blip of what I do matters!
But oh.......how much more love and fulfillment is here when I discover the following:
I can never be myself (me)! I cannot have it both ways. I can have the lie (and think myself separate) or be truth, love, clarity.
I also know what it feels like to look for myself everywhere (first outside and then inside). It is agony! And I am nowhere to be found! A thought is a thought. It is fleeting. Nothing more. And the paradox: Never can I be lost...because I am already everywhere! I am. It is so simple!
So...again....I can never be myself. I can only Be
Andrew
You cannot drop your story. Let it unfold. It is perfectly ok. You cannot drop yourself. See? Let it be. The fact that you long for truth is winding you/me down. Without the longing you would be momentarily satisfied with less than reality. Less than truth. Most people are. You are not. This is a blessing, not a curse. Eventually...you will be still. Longer and longer instances at a time. Now is always right here. What pulses and throbs through this body right now is already taking care of us....it sustains us....all the time.
Your courage is beautiful!
Keep revealing your secrets
The loving is constant.
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emc
2072 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2006 : 1:55:19 PM
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quote:
You cannot drop yourself. See? Let it be.
That was the most healing sentence I have read so far! Thank you, thank you, thank you, Katrine!
I am in tears. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2006 : 11:53:04 PM
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Thanks for the kind replies everyone. First Paul and Shweta, thank you for your kind reassurances, I think you are ok too!
Hi Lili, I have been in long term relationships for most of my life, but having recently found myself outside of this dynamic, I had the opportunity to have a powerful short-term relationship, where we "fell in love with each other". It was a pretty amazing learning experience on many levels and I was able to really observe the process of falling in love and then (apparently) separating from that love, which is what inspired the post.
I started to realize that the euphoric feeling of being in love stems from an unquestioning sense that we are complete, that we have everything we need by just being and we do not need to look outside ourselves for fulfilment. I started to think that we are not actually in love with another person at all, so much that we feel this euphoric love inside and attribute it to their presence because they occur at the same time.
quote:
I am all of these things if I believe I am, if I just decide that it is true, but I can’t, I need someone to convince me again…
I think I might have created a little confusion with this, I was trying to write metaphorically about the human condition, the very idea that we are not. We are not good enough, we are not smart, we are not desirable, we are not likeable/ lovable, etc. When these thoughts drop, what is left to me is pure awareness or being.
quote:
I'm even inclined to think that transcendental heights are ultimately nothing without realizing that it's right here in all its divine glory.
Hi Alan, I couldn't agree more!
Katrine, thank you for your wonderful reply, but i may be wrong in thinking that we are having a confusion of words. I agree we are not things, but I would say that my pure being is everything I need. I realize that Yogani is a genious it is "I am", not "I am not...(insert word of choice here)". So when I say "I am not", I mean I am not things nor am I lacking. I don't need to look outside myself, this is a profound peace to me, a letting go deep in the body. Are we saying the same thing?
quote:
Don't fill this hole with beliefs! The belief that you are will never satisfy you. Only the real will fulfill. Only Being.
quote:
I can never be myself (me)! I cannot have it both ways. I can have the lie (and think myself separate) or be truth, love, clarity.
These are pure genius to me.
quote:
At first, it is just nothing. But this nothing is all. Don't take my word for it. Just.....be still. Dare to be empty now. Right now. What is here all the time is constantly overlooked, simply because we seek it elsewhere.
I see it this way too, I become aware of this nothingness by just being for the moment. Without any doing.
I don't want to drop my story, the pain it brings me is what leads me home back to being. Maybe you just cleared all this out for me I don't know! If you see my thinking leading me astray, please don't hesitate in letting me know.
thanks to all,
A
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2006 : 04:25:10 AM
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Hi Andrew
It is wonderful either way, Andrew. Many, many people will resonate with what you wrote - whether it is true for you now or not.
quote:
I agree we are not things, but I would say that my pure being is everything I need.
Yes.....but saying this doesn't necessary make it true for you now. If pure being is here.....then who is here to feel fulfilled....to feel that now "I am ok"...."now I can rest"? Who would have to say anything?
See?
All duality disappears....there is only Being.
quote:
I realize that Yogani is a genious it is "I am", not "I am not...(insert word of choice here)". So when I say "I am not", I mean I am not things nor am I lacking. I don't need to look outside myself, this is a profound peace to me, a letting go deep in the body. Are we saying the same thing?
Yes.....
You don't need to look at all, Andrew. It is all here.
And actually....when you leave out any insertions....it is both I am and I am not. AYP is most and formost THIS:
Deep meditation:
i am.......i am....i am............
The sound is the tool - not the meaning of the words.
But eventually
...... when I am, I see that i am not...
It is effortless.....deep.....and clean.
And one day, it is consistant
Yes, Andrew. We are saying the same thing . You are right on.
It is only a matter of depth and consistancy. The realization that I am is new always. It is not taking yesterdays euphoria and using it today. That would be filling the hole.
See?
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2006 : 11:43:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Anthem11
I started to realize that the euphoric feeling of being in love stems from an unquestioning sense that we are complete, that we have everything we need by just being and we do not need to look outside ourselves for fulfilment. I started to think that we are not actually in love with another person at all, so much that we feel this euphoric love inside and attribute it to their presence because they occur at the same time.
Well done. In my case so far it did not work like this. Actually because my biggest psychological problem is related to loss of a relationship I even divide my life in 3 periods--1. before feeling this euphoric feeling you write about. 2. while I was feeling it and 3. when I lost it and had to endure a constant background feeling of loss and doom. Period 3. has been going on for several years now and it is not over so I am very happy you did not have to go though this. |
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Wolfgang
Germany
470 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2006 : 1:06:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Katrine
*laughing*
Selfish indeed! Utterly selfish! Some would say that I should be ashamed of myself. But what good will that shame do? I see the lie, though. Now I see. And in this seeing is the realization that
- it doesn't matter now! Not one blip of what I do matters!
Hi Katrine,
very funny, I feel you wrote everything in your long post for me personally 
And I really am in the process of letting it all sink in.
Just the above I can't accept: Not one blip of what I do matters!
If it doesn't matter what I do, then I become very careless, irresponsible ...
I still believe, it does matter what I do ... 
May be you could elaborate on this for me please.
L&L
Wolfgang |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2006 : 4:09:09 PM
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Hi Wolfgang
quote:
Not one blip of what I do matters!
quote:
If it doesn't matter what I do, then I become very careless, irresponsible ...
I still believe, it does matter what I do ...
I - me - want to make a difference. I - me - attribute the light I am to myself. I - me - thinks it is the doer. But it isn't! It never was!
I - me - is already "very careless, irresponsible..."
Not one blip of what I - me - "do" matters. I - me - have no power.
See?
And yet
[quote]- it doesn't matter now![/quote]
Now I am.
The past is non-existent. THIS is it!
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 03 2006 : 11:38:44 PM
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Hi Katrine,
I read your posts over a few more times and I think I understand a bit better now. I think I was about to go from one step, of looking for fulfillment externally, to looking for fulfillment internally, and you may just save me from that. I think I see it would still be meeting a need that "me" has and all I need to do is forget that thought and to just identify with the inner silence and being instead. I don’t really know if it would have worked anyway!
When I close my eyes and do this, being aware of my awareness, I get strange energy feelings in my base, heart and crown simultaneously that feel a bit like when I am about to go over the edge on a roller-coaster!
Thank you I will explore this more!
A
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Edited by - Anthem on Dec 03 2006 11:40:32 PM |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 12:03:42 AM
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quote:
... a bit like when I am about to go over the edge on a roller-coaster!
Hi Anthem,
Thank you for your sharings in this topic. You have mentioned this before also, going over the edge. I'm curious, if you don't mind describing what happens when and if you have gone "over the edge".
I have felt energy building up sometimes during the night, but could avoid "it" by moving. But I'm wondering what would have happened if I had given in to it. If nothing bad, then maybe it could have been interesting. |
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 02:59:14 AM
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Hi Andrew
quote:
Thank you I will explore this more!
I am thrilled!
Yes - seeking - whether it is outside or inside - perpetuates the separate me. That is one of the reasons why we don't get caught up with the scenery during meditation.
I am very happy for you, Andrew!
Enjoy the silence
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Katrine
Norway
1813 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 03:12:21 AM
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Hi Weaver
quote:
I have felt energy building up sometimes during the night, but could avoid "it" by moving. But I'm wondering what would have happened if I had given in to it. If nothing bad, then maybe it could have been interesting.
This sounds like my question a little while back: What happens if I let go all the way....what happens if I let myself explode?
I reckognize this feeling. It happened whenever I sat down and relaxed. I would also "stop it" by moving. I don't know, Weaver - but today I can say that I am glad I didn't "go over the bend". Now I explode - and I am here all the time. I am conscious all through the explosion.
Yogani would have to comment on this - but I think that had I let go sooner, I would have been sucked out of myself (through the open crown) - and crashlanded (with huge energy complications) when I "got back". The longer I waited before I moved, the worse the eczema got (too much purification too soon). There would also be deep, emotional lows - as if all light disappeared from my life. So be careful. And keep witnessing. Stay conscious. |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 11:00:21 AM
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Hi Weaver,
I can identify with this moving away from the energy. I do this sometimes too, when I find the ecstasy feelings distracting.
As far as going over the edge, it is just a feeling I get at times. I am not recommending this course of action, but I tend to just jump in and see what happens. Nothing too big ever really does for me, just a momentary surge of energy or emotion/ energy together. For the most part, the energy just kind of operates in the background for me with no real pressure build-up that I can detect, so I don't know what would happen in your case.
So in regards to your situation, I don't have any experience to draw from, I would listen to Katrine on this as she has much more experience with intense amounts of energy than I do.
Good luck,
A
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Edited by - Anthem on Dec 04 2006 11:02:02 AM |
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Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 11:09:25 AM
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Hi Lili,
quote:
Well done. In my case so far it did not work like this. Actually because my biggest psychological problem is related to loss of a relationship I even divide my life in 3 periods--1. before feeling this euphoric feeling you write about. 2. while I was feeling it and 3. when I lost it and had to endure a constant background feeling of loss and doom. Period 3. has been going on for several years now and it is not over so I am very happy you did not have to go though this.
The relationship I was describing above was a fairly short one, just a couple of months long so the healing period was much shorter. Not too long ago I came out of a 6.5 year relationship and the healing process was much longer, about a year before I felt ready to move on.
It was difficult for me because I felt I was leaving a positive aspect of my life behind, but all I can say is that I faced the "unhappy" emotions every day. I would just allow myself to grieve and feel the pain fully, I feel this helped me heal faster. It is also a useful process to ask yourself what you feel you have lost and what this doom is and if the reasons you have for these emotions are really valid. Byron Katie's book "Loving What Is" may be useful for you with your situation.
Best of luck,
peace and love to you,
A
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Lili
Netherlands
372 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 3:32:25 PM
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quote:
Hi Lili,
Not too long ago I came out of a 6.5 year relationship and the healing process was much longer, about a year before I felt ready to move on.
Hey that's a great job too--my relationship was not even a proper relationship and I am carrying around this sadness about it for 4 years now.
quote:
Byron Katie's book "Loving What Is" may be useful for you with your situation.
I read Byron Katie but admit that I did not give her method a fair shot. Maybe I should try again.
Thanks a lot Anthem!--Good luck to you too!!
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Dec 04 2006 : 8:17:57 PM
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Katrine and Anthem,
Thank you for your advice about giving in to energy. It seems that (at least in my case) it is wise to not give in to the energy since it may throw oneself out of balance. Staying conscious makes a lot of sense. And I don't think I would want to explode at this stage!
Sounds really cool Katrine that you stay conscious through the explosion.
And, Anthem, it's good to hear that you can jump in without damage.
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Edited by - weaver on Dec 04 2006 8:28:52 PM |
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Lavazza
69 Posts |
Posted - Dec 05 2006 : 08:02:30 AM
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"I need me, I need me to love me, to want me and to care for me, this will never change. I don’t need anyone else to do this for me, I need me to do this for me. I need to stop looking outside of myself for completion, I am already complete!"
The hard thing is loving yourself neither because somebody else does, nor because nobody else does.
Loving yourself, because somebody else does is easy.
Loving yourself, because nobody else does is more difficult, but is sometimes easy, out of necessity. Making necessity a virtue, and all that.
Doing neither is a different matter. I cannot say that I have even tried.
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Love lost and found?
