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wonderd
USA
14 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 06 2017 : 09:36:47 AM
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Hello everyone. Something has been bothering me for a while and I would like some input on it.
When you meditate you become more in tuned with devine conscienceness (god). This would be the same god which is referenced in the bible correct?
If this is so. Why would anyone really want to be closer to god? God is shown in the bible to be very brutal and tells his followers to kill in more than one scripture for many circumstances.
For example: "If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Deuteronomy 13:7-12"
In the above scripture people are not allowed to worship who they want. If they do they should be killed!
I go to church weekly and I have had this problem with god/the bible for somw time now.
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jusmail
India
491 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2017 : 10:57:15 AM
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| Texts like the one you quote were right for people 2000 years ago. Since then, they have released the new testament. So go read that and be updated. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2017 : 11:26:44 AM
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| For me God is not some figurehead hanging out in heaven, playing us like chess pieces. God is the life force within all of us, that divides the cells upon conception, that makes the infant wail upon birth, that exits the corpse upon death. The Bible is man made, completed over centuries by many, tainted by human bias and therefore cannot be counted on as the gauge of what "true God" is. Only by being in silence can we come close to the Spirit in all of us. |
Edited by - Dogboy on Nov 06 2017 11:28:11 AM |
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colours
Sweden
108 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2017 : 11:55:41 AM
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I think the Bible is written by man, and not God's words. You bring the problem of religion up, this is why the yoga teaching is more in tune with my being, than religion...
As Dogboy says, God is (for me at least) the stillness inside, it is true love and never violence.
We should listen to what's on the inside, and not what is written in the Bible or any other scripture. That is to Know God, the kingdom of heaven. At least to me 
//colours |
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wonderd
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - Nov 06 2017 : 11:37:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
For me God is not some figurehead hanging out in heaven, playing us like chess pieces. God is the life force within all of us, that divides the cells upon conception, that makes the infant wail upon birth, that exits the corpse upon death. The Bible is man made, completed over centuries by many, tainted by human bias and therefore cannot be counted on as the gauge of what "true God" is. Only by being in silence can we come close to the Spirit in all of us.
I wish I could believe that god was not playing us like chess pieces. For example in Genesis 22 where god told Abraham to kill his only son just to test his faith. Why did he have to be tested in such a way? I am familiar with the new testament. Yes god sacrificed his only son for us but why does it always have to come down to death?
This may tie into religion but I feel mediation and religion have a strong connection which is often ignored so people can sleep easier.
I am looking for the proper path to peace/salvation but church and scripture provide so many doubts. If I look to mediation for salvation it just leads to being closer to god, which I also have a problem with because of the stories from scripture. I DO believe that the same god that is mentioned in the bible and other sacred text is the same god you draw closer to during mediation. After all its all the same god just incarnated at different times right?
No body else has felt this way or has had this conflict? |
Edited by - wonderd on Nov 07 2017 04:38:48 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2017 : 06:34:34 AM
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Hi Wonderd
quote:
Originally posted by wonderd
god sacrificed his only son for us
I find the "only son" to be a strange assertion. I know it's a common one, but if you also believe that Jesus left us The Lord's Prayer, isn't there some contradiction?. "Our Father, who art in heaven..." Doesn't "our" imply that we are all God's children? |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Nov 07 2017 06:37:46 AM |
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wonderd
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2017 : 12:14:11 PM
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| Yes maybe we are also his children. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2017 : 1:19:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogboy
For me God is not some figurehead hanging out in heaven, playing us like chess pieces. God is the life force within all of us, that divides the cells upon conception, that makes the infant wail upon birth, that exits the corpse upon death. The Bible is man made, completed over centuries by many, tainted by human bias and therefore cannot be counted on as the gauge of what "true God" is. Only by being in silence can we come close to the Spirit in all of us.
This. 
(And maybe by being in ecstasy, along with silence, we can come a little closer to God too.  ) |
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2017 : 1:52:27 PM
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wondersd please read the gita, eknath easwaran is a simple yet wonderful commentary in that you may find some answers  |
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Blanche
USA
874 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2017 : 2:43:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wonderd
When you meditate you become more in tuned with devine conscienceness (god). This would be the same god which is referenced in the bible correct?
If this is so. Why would anyone really want to be closer to god? God is shown in the bible to be very brutal and tells his followers to kill in more than one scripture for many circumstances.
Well, the more one thinks about the popular views regarding God, the more confusing the topic gets, as there are so many inconsistencies and opinions. And then, what would be the use of replacing your current views with some new views? They would be just beliefs, things we take for granted for external reasons. When we do not know things for ourselves, others’ opinions matter.
The good news is that there is a way to see for ourselves what the reality is. As we follow the spiritual path, sooner or later the answers will come. Then, when we know ourselves what God is, we can decide if we want to get closer or not. 
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wonderd
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - Nov 07 2017 : 11:43:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kumar ul islam
wondersd please read the gita, eknath easwaran is a simple yet wonderful commentary in that you may find some answers
I have it and read it. What I don't understand is how can god seem so nice and peaceful in one text yet so brutal in another text? |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4515 Posts |
Posted - Nov 08 2017 : 04:25:56 AM
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Hi Wondered,
quote:
I have it and read it. What I don't understand is how can god seem so nice and peaceful in one text yet so brutal in another text?
If you read spiritual texts, one will say one thing, another will say something different and a third will say something different again. There are thousands of texts and so there are thousands of different interpretations of the truth. The real question is, are there any that inspire you to practice? This is the only really useful thing that a spiritual text can do.
If there are some that inspire you to practice, then take that inspiration and use it and leave the rest behind. Your practice, if it is authentic, will then gradually lead you to the direct knowing of your Divine Self which is the Divine reality. Then you won't have any need for books, because you will know directly what is true and what is not. In yoga this is called Jnana, or direct knowledge of reality.
If you read things that confuse you, then I would advise to take the wheat and leave the chaff. If something is just confusing now, then leave it aside. Maybe in a few years time you will find it helpful?
If you do not already have a spiritual practice, then you can begin here:
Lesson 10 (The first in this series) - Why This Discussion?
The lessons will gradually guide you through everything you need to do, in order to have the direct perception (darshan) of the Divine.
Christi |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2017 : 11:23:23 AM
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Hi wonderd, I agree with Christi.
The free online book "The most direct means to Eternal Bliss" answers directly the questions that you have (specially at the beginning and end of the book, but read everything), I suggest you to read it (see following link) and start with the lessons following the link that Christi provided.
http://www.damienboyle.com/page23/files/TMDMTEB.pdf |
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wonderd
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2017 : 3:00:21 PM
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| Thank you will and all that have replied. I will read it. |
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Nov 09 2017 : 4:04:37 PM
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| the universe is all these things ,good bad ugly ,destructive, creative ,loving what is good for one is bad for another we have this opportunity as human beings to experience this in our unique way ,free choice if you like ,god to us will manifest in many different forms depending on where you are what you are doing time of birth ect the greeks had many gods as did the mayans and so on as we evolved our perception has become more expanded as our knowledge is bigger so god becomes larger or our view of it so therefore our decisions change about how we interact with the world around us knowledge is key yet our use of it in a spiritual sense is how become more than just reaction upon reaction for action sake its deep and deeper still thats maybe why its infinite ,remove some of veils and some parts of reality reveal themselves we are created sustained and transformed this not religious but fact bear this mind when contemplating the brutal or bad ,even the sun at some point will implode destroying most if life around it and life is so strong in time something else is born ,to be attached too much to the human condition is wonderfully dramatic but no less or more than the demise of every atom into another ,the belief in god is a wonderful light but can also cover or blind us as it takes some form of institution and becomes an obstruction to seeing the full glory ,its like living in a cave and only ever seeing a shard of light through a crack what is there to think this is sun yet it only a part outside of this is the sunlight and all the creation that it sustains |
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Beehive
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - Nov 15 2017 : 3:00:14 PM
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| Putting on the Mind of Christ by Jim Marion gave me perspective on this. Also Rob Bell's book What is the Bible? also adds an interesting way to look at the bible. I still go to church, but only since I realized that the real message they are talking about is enlightenment. Unfortunately I don't think very many other people think that but I still find pleasure in being with other people who want to know God/the Divine in themselves/get in touch with the soul.... that kind of thing; even though I'm aware that we may be trying to do that in differnent ways. Cynthia Bourgeault is another writer with a more updated vision of Christian Church. |
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Chard
250 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2017 : 01:36:51 AM
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| Hi wonderd! That’s a good question with not an easy answer I believe. I have had similar questions. The only thing that pops into my head as a response is the book Living Buddha Living Christ by Thich Nhat Hahn. I myself have wrestled w the God of the Bible vs Divine Higher Power etc. I think it’s much about the lens we have based on past experiences that is impt to note. Love and blessings! C |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Nov 16 2017 : 11:22:14 AM
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Hi wonderd,
Lovely response from All.
We are all God sparks ready to be kindled. Let the sitting practices set the Being ablaze. As Rumi said "Close your eyes, fall in love, stay there"
Transformation does not happen overnight. It's a slow process. Faith, patience, consistency, persistence, surrender helps on this path. You can experience God for yourself without having to rely on any external sources. Then you'll start to enjoy those external sources without looking for answers from them.
Much Love.
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wonderd
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - Nov 18 2017 : 02:21:14 AM
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| Thanks for the input everyone. Everyone's response was great and helpful but I'd especially like to thank beehive for his response. It does not always have to be about religion but just being around other people who want to be closer to god. This was my original reason for going. However I got caught up im the religion aspect and became judgmental, finding fault in the things the pastors would say. Mainly judging other religions and saying things they shouldn't. But at the end of the day their still trying to help people and no one is perfect. |
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Beehive
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - Nov 19 2017 : 2:28:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wonderd
Thanks for the input everyone. Everyone's response was great and helpful but I'd especially like to thank beehive for his response. It does not always have to be about religion but just being around other people who want to be closer to god. This was my original reason for going. However I got caught up im the religion aspect and became judgmental, finding fault in the things the pastors would say. Mainly judging other religions and saying things they shouldn't. But at the end of the day their still trying to help people and no one is perfect.
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Nov 30 2017 : 10:28:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wonderd
Hello everyone. Something has been bothering me for a while and I would like some input on it.
When you meditate you become more in tuned with devine conscienceness (god). This would be the same god which is referenced in the bible correct?
If this is so. Why would anyone really want to be closer to god? God is shown in the bible to be very brutal and tells his followers to kill in more than one scripture for many circumstances.
For example: "If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Deuteronomy 13:7-12"
In the above scripture people are not allowed to worship who they want. If they do they should be killed!
I go to church weekly and I have had this problem with god/the bible for somw time now.
Dear Wonderd,
Your chosen belief system is causing you cognitive dissonance. You believe that the portrayal of the brutal God of the Old Testament is an accurate depiction of the Creator, the Source of all being, the Consciousness behind the universe, and you have [accurately] discerned that this is not someone you'd want to hang out with. But, it's not as if you have a choice. Psalm 139 says, "Where can I flee from Your presence?" Which is why my teacher Mark Whitwell says, "You cannot get closer to God," because technically God is omnipresent.
But I have some good news:
1. The God described by Jesus in the New Testament is very different from the O.T., a loving Father, and you can relate to Jesus as avatar (incarnation) of that loving Being.
2. The bible was written by men who projected their own feelings, fears and prejudices onto God. It must be understood in the context of the historic sociocultural context in which it was written. It is our Christian mythology, just as all other religions have their mythologies.
3. There are no "other gods." God is God, manifesting in various ways and perceived in different ways by different people.
As a Christian myself (Episcopalian), I can assure you that the God whose Presence I enjoy as the result of Grace and a lifelong yoga practice is infinitely more loving, wonderful, awesome and fun than you would ever imagine based on the description in the Old Testament, or even the New. For me personally, that's the whole point of yoga - Divine union - and I am sure many other yogis would agree.
In fact, I don't know any yogis of whatever religion, Christian or otherwise who, having advanced in meditation and "getting closer to God" or rather, learning how to experience the Presence of God up close and personal, said, "I'm so disappointed! What a jerk! Sorry I wasted my time with all that meditation stuff."
I think the best way out of your dilemma is to trust God to be God and not worry about what some guys wrote thousands of years ago. Just do your spiritual practice - meditation, contemplative prayer, the Jesus Prayer, the rosary, or whatever - and God will eventually reveal Himself to you. If you persist in the practice with devotion, I seriously doubt you will be disappointed.
If the church you attend is creating cognitive dissonance, then go explore some other churches. Christianity has plenty of them and you can find one where you feel more comfortable. As a child forced to attend fundamentalist private schools with mandatory chapel, I had the same doubts about God as you do, and became an atheist for many years. It was yoga that ultimately brought me back to a deeper relationship with God, and then I joined the Episcopal church and felt right at Home there.
And if you are going to use the bible to meditate on, for goodness' sakes, choose verses that inspire you, rather than those that depress you. There is, e.g., lots of great material in the book of John, particularly chapter 14. Once you experience the presence of God for yourself you won't need to rely on what is written in a book.
All the best, and God bless you. |
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wonderd
USA
14 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2017 : 02:49:36 AM
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| Another great in depth reply. What type of yoga routine was you doing that brought you back to god? I know it's different for everyone. Just curious. |
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Blanche
USA
874 Posts |
Posted - Dec 02 2017 : 2:23:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wonderd
What type of yoga routine was you doing that brought you back to god?
Meditation. From the very beginning, when I did not even know what mediation was, or what to expect. After so many years, meditation still works - and just being works: All there is is Pure Divinity, quiet stillness flowing in bliss and love. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Dec 08 2017 : 8:26:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wonderd
Another great in depth reply. What type of yoga routine was you doing that brought you back to god? I know it's different for everyone. Just curious.
At first I was doing zen meditation, then SRF kriya, later added tantra yoga. But I also hung out w/ the Hare Krishnas and I think it was their bhakti approach that really helped me the most in terms of my personal relationship w/ God. They gave me a whole new perspective on God as a sweet, loving, playful, fun Person Who genuinely enjoys our company and devotion. Also Krishna being an Avatar helped me to understand and appreciate the whole concept of Jesus as Divine Incarnation. So I was able to take that new perspective into my meditations. |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2017 : 6:44:30 PM
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| the closer you get the less questions you will have. you might even have less answers in some regards but also less desire to have them answers |
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MrCuddly
USA
43 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2018 : 12:39:42 PM
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I was raised as a Lutheran but from 8 years old felt the doctrine of the church made no intuitive sense to me. As I got older this only intensified especially as I've spent my life exploring (and enjoying the fruits of) eastern practices.
This will sound outrageous to most people, but the longer I live and have studied the history of the Catholic church in particular, the more I'm convinced that modern religions (or at least their modern theologies) ironically operate as a public control mechanism to intentionally minimize spiritual and God realization of the masses.
The need for this makes a lot of sense. A spiritually liberated person becomes immune to fear of death, social conformity, programming etc and thus becomes resistant to most if not all other psychological control mechanisms. If a significant portion of the population became spiritually liberated/ grounded in truth, etc the powers that be would suffer massive loss of control of the population.
Why do I think this? Thanks to various gnostic texts that were discovered in the 40's we know that original Christianity was almost completely opposite from modern theology. The discovered gnostic texts include the "Dead Sea Scrolls" the "Nag Hammadi scrolls" etc and and the only known remnants that have survived the torching by the Catholic church of the great library of Alexandria. Not to mention the scorched earth annihilation of all the many grassroots gnostic Christian sects.
But in these text remnants it was clear that Christ spent years in India becoming a super adept mystic admired greatly even in India. He taught reincarnation (which the Church eliminated 200 years AD), and simply that all truth and God realization comes from within.
The Church teaches absolutely AGAINST following your own intuition, own experience, even your own conscience to be replaced by simply following the dogma of the Church, Bible, etc. Replacing personal experience (the only way you can actually KNOW anything) with blindly following the ever changing church and Biblical doctrine.
This was point was dramatically and shockingly displayed in the last few weeks. Acknowledging the chaos and brutality in the world, the current Pope made the simple statement that people should follow their consciences. This created a huge uproar at the highest levels of the church as this was diametrically opposed to theology. Again theology stresses blind belief devoid of personal interpretation and experience that even goes for our God given internal navigation system know as conscience. Could they be doing anything BUT intentionally alienating people from their own innate spirituality?
It was amazing to me that the Church would expose so publicly their opposition to the exercise of conscience - but it's clearly an important tenant of church control.
My advice is to go in the opposite direction. Start meditation to return to your wild (non conditioned) mind and resume your search for God or meaning based on no concept and only your own sharpening intuition and personal experience, etc. And very importantly cleanse away all preconceptions and concepts of God. Even the Bible states that God surpasses all understanding. So who's coming up with these iron clad definitions and rules?
You were given incredible propensities for spiritual understanding and self realization some of which are built into your physical body and psyche (chakras, Kundalini etc). The real joys of God and self are to be experienced by you directly. There can be guidance but no shortcuts. But what a wonderful trip it is! Since you're here, I assume that's exactly what you're doing and I very sincerely congratulate you!
A great book for understanding gnosticism and a glimpse of REAL history is "Not in His Image" by John Lash Lamb
Shine on!
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Do I really want to be closer to god?
