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Mountain
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 25 2017 : 10:11:59 AM
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Hello AYP yoga community.
I have a problem. I want to experience liberation, but am unable to tolerate even a few moments of meditation.
I find that whenever I meditate, even for just a few moments, after a few days of this it seems to exacerbate my symptoms: coursing energy, sleeplessness, then anxious and paranoid thoughts start to creep in, and I start to feel like I am going into a semi-psychotic state.
Does anyone find that practising AYP exacerbates a pre-existing mental illness?
Does anyone have any suggestions?
If this is the case, as it seems to be for me, to be blocked out of liberation; locked out of heaven, seems a very cruel karma indeed.
Any thoughts would be very much appreciated and kindly received. |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2017 : 11:14:38 AM
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Hi Mountain,
A pre-meditation option could be, walking mindful in nature. This will help you to ground, this means walking while feeling your feet touching the ground, be aware of the breath, the body....for instance 10 minutes of mindful walking and a longer time of normal walking. Also an asana practice will help you to be more aware in the body.
Don't be to harsh on yourself, slowly will do it and you will progress.
Just my suggestion 
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Edited by - Charliedog on Oct 25 2017 12:34:12 PM |
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jusmail
India
491 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2017 : 11:45:08 AM
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No one can fathom the mysteries of karma. If there are unfinished lessons to learn, there are many more life times you can visit to experience and grow from them. There are also other dimensions of reality whose functioning we don't know.
The one thing you can carry into your next life is the spiritual process and progress you have initiated in this life. Meditation remains the easiest path to achieve this. So go do whatever you can with whatever you have. You will receive the necessary support and resources in this site if you continue on this path. Wishing you the very best |
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yogani
USA
5245 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2017 : 12:01:48 PM
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Hi Mountain:
If you have not already, see Lesson 367 on dealing with over-sensitivity to deep meditation with mantra. There are measures you can try for finding a more stable meditation practice: https://www.aypsite.org/367.html
In situations like this, "breath meditation" can be helpful, described in the lesson.
You are not the only one who has had this issue, so take heart. There is a way forward on your path, and you will find it.
All the best!
The guru is in you.
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colours
Sweden
108 Posts |
Posted - Oct 25 2017 : 12:18:15 PM
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Mountain,
I have had the same difficulies as you when taking on too much meditation or other regular spiritual practices. In the beginning I could only meditate spontaneously when ever I felt like it (though not too often), and every trying to meditate two times each day ended with the same kind of symptoms you describe... (I also have a form of mental illness btw).
Lately I have found that a sort of routine that works best for me is something like two times each week of twenty minutes of meditation... With a lot of grounding activities in-between. By doing this I experience only good symptoms of the meditation, and no bad symptoms... Like the way it is supposed to be. In other words: I self-pace my practice like this.
Remember that your practice should not be a strain, and Yogani made me realize this. Like the mantra, easily favour practice and self-pace :)
Wishing you all the best! |
Edited by - colours on Oct 25 2017 12:29:32 PM |
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Mountain
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2017 : 06:08:13 AM
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Thank you all for your advice. Also, I don't know if someone sent me some kind of healing (energetic entrainment) in your message, or if it was just the karma of asking for help, because whilst reading your responses I started to feel woolly-headed, tired and grounded in the body. It felt good. Regardless of its source I am grateful for it.
Charliedog thank you. A sensible consideration: more grounded activities; Sending awareness into the feet is something I have experienced walking the dog in Nature. I will make a habit of it going forward.
jusmail my thanks. I don't have the stomach for another lifetime. The last 22 years have been hell; both inner and outer. I can't determine whether this has been a cycle of previous lifetimes (tortured martyr, pariah etc.) Nevertheless I have learnt much in this lifetime. Hopefully, at the end of this one I can step off the cycle of worldly life and melt back into the infinite. I am done.
I recently consulted the I CHING (Chinese oracle) to ask my inner guru what my gift to offer the world might be. The answer: Experience 'shock' until the person becomes without fear in the face of external circumstances. Apparently this is all in service of bringing about a time of 'abundant' high culture. Hmmm, fearlessly taking on the establishment as a policy-maker/politician...? I seem far from that now. We shall see what cycles are to unfold for humanity and if this ego has any part to play.
Yogani Thank you for your sound advice, guru-from-afar. I suspect that based on my experimentation, breathing in the belly only exacerbates an over-open solar plexus chakra (Manipura). The same with breathing into the forehead (Ajna). When I spontaneously go into a meditative state, I attempt to allow awareness to melt into the empty background. It feels most comfortable 'directing' awareness away from the front of the body into the back of the head and/or between the kidneys. I totally avoid awareness of breath as it always exacerbates kundalini. In fact, creating emptiness, just gives more space for more of this abundant prana/life force to flow into it - until that area too is 'stretched'. Somehow I need to break the blocks in my heart and upper back to have a relief of the sheer pressure of built up prana/life force. I am sure I will invest a way, looking over your books will prompt an idea.
I have also had a cursory look over lesson 367, as much as I could before my mind went too woolly last night. Thank you again for your wisdom and aid.
colours thank you for relating your experience. It seems we both share over-sensitivity in common. It seems sensible to limit and limit to just twice a week sitting practice. I am sure I will find my way to a practice that gently unblocks the tension without over-stimulating what is already open and sensitive.
Also, a little off topic - how is the weather in Sweden this time of year? ...I am very keen to visit your lovely country, but am wary of the long Winters. What do Nordic folk do during the long nights?
Once again, thank you all. I should also mention that I am looking at changing my diet as I may have an overgrowth of 'bad' bacteria that is exacerbating my psychological complaints. The research is becoming solid on the link between gut bacteria and psychological symptoms.
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2017 : 07:47:48 AM
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Hello Mountain
Thank you for sharing. It is great to hear that mental illness can be healed. I am familiar with the views of mainstream psychiatry and it's pretty much all doom and gloom. I very much hope the research you are pointing to (thinking of the link you posted on another topic a while back) will change the way the developed world deals with mental illness.
quote:
Originally posted by Mountain
Mental Illness - a cruel karma?
Who could ever tell? "Many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first."
quote:
Originally posted by Mountain
I suspect that based on my experimentation, breathing in the belly only exacerbates an over-open solar plexus chakra (Manipura). The same with breathing into the forehead (Ajna). When I spontaneously go into a meditative state, I attempt to allow awareness to melt into the empty background. It feels most comfortable 'directing' awareness away from the front of the body into the back of the head and/or between the kidneys. I totally avoid awareness of breath as it always exacerbates kundalini. In fact, creating emptiness, just gives more space for more of this abundant prana/life force to flow into it - until that area too is 'stretched'. Somehow I need to break the blocks in my heart and upper back to have a relief of the sheer pressure of built up prana/life force.
I feel you may be ready for passive awareness meditation. In AYP, we don't recommend it to meditation beginners because it requires a level of inner silence to be present. But I think you have what it takes for passive awareness to be effective. The technique is briefly described in Lesson 367.
I hope we will hear more from you.
Best wishes |
Edited by - BlueRaincoat on Oct 26 2017 07:57:41 AM |
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colours
Sweden
108 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2017 : 5:13:23 PM
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Mountain,
It is good to be of help. Yes, I think you will find your way in this also, sometimes we will have to try and experiment a bit, carefully, to find what works and do not... That is my experience at least. As been said, walking mindful in nature, and passive awareness meditation might be something "to try" next for you... Also, if nothing seem to work, you could always just be in the moment and the now, for now... Maybe study spirituality/yoga (Yogani's books for example)... And do things that are good and healthy for you right now.
There is always a way, and we will all find it in the end I think.
quote:
Originally posted by Mountain
Also, a little off topic - how is the weather in Sweden this time of year? ...I am very keen to visit your lovely country, but am wary of the long Winters. What do Nordic folk do during the long nights?
Aaah, this time of year it is fairly rainy actually, with nice coloured leafs on the trees, around five to ten degrees Celsius... As said, mostly rain, but some fine days with sun also! It gets to be dark around six PM at the moment, but soon we change the clock backwards so it gets dark around five PM (don't really know why, maybe to have more light in the mornings?). The darkness makes me somewhat more tired, but I look forward to bright snow, and to spend holidays with family... So that brings some warmth to my heart at least during the winters... 
I have never been to the UK, but have been to Ireland for a month about ten years ago during my school days.... It was a nice visit!
//colours |
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aguacate
Germany
44 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2017 : 7:21:59 PM
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> Does anyone find that practising AYP exacerbates a pre-existing mental illness?
Good question! My answer is long. Also I want to say that I am not a doctor and this is not a medical advice.
My small essay has different parts that lead to a bigger whole thing in the end. First I reflect what I read in your thread and how I interpret the issue. I also want to share the story of a friend I have here in Germany. Then I will cover influencing factors and give an example from my own life, where I suffered from overload which resulted in inflammations which had many different influencing factors. The last section is bridges back to the previous examples, seeing overload and mental illness both in a holistic concept that is influenced by many different factors of our daily life.
Your thread reads like a "normal" overdosing issue with the understandably worrying fact of an existing illness in the background. I understand the question on your search for answers, given the context you provided. From my experience AYP heals a lot of scars and issues, BUT: everyone is different and too much in a too short amount of time will have bad effects, for both people with a pre-existing issue or without one.
That said, I would try to tell an metaphor. You can also see the question like: "Does anyone find that eating exacerbates a pre-exisiting genetical predisposition to bad health?". The answer is yes and no. It depends on the type of eating and the overall life situation. Take eating unhealthy food and a lot of alcohol vs a healthy diet. Or always eating in a rush vs. eating relaxed.
So I would like to ask you to see it as a possibility that the reason for the issues is probably a mixed bag of reasons. Maybe it is the dosage / amount of meditation. Maybe you are over-sensitive (yogani already posted https://www.aypsite.org/367.html). Maybe your current living circumstances contribute in some way. I'm not saying "it is this way". Those are possibilities. Its a far too complex topic with many influencing factors. In any case it should be a priority to protect your current health.
Some thoughts on overdosing: if meditation is too intensive, maybe Asanas help right now. Maybe a different type of meditation (breath watching) is the way to go. Whatever you try, I want to suggest that you always opt for savety, even at the price of less progress. Especially given the consequences a psychosis can have. That can also mean to have a break for 1-2 weeks before trying another practice. I have a close friend with mental issues and no doctor was able to help. Afaik they weren't even able to make a final exact diagnosis. Careful experimentation with a focus on safety helped him a lot, even at the price of years of years taking baby steps back and forth. I remember him sometimes talking about it very sad. But in the end, what is the alternative? Risking going back to hospital?
Regarding the energy issues. This year I had some issues with too much energy. Looking back now there were a few factors which contributed to the state. This experience is about mostly body related issues but I want to share it. I think an explanation what contributed to my energy issues may help (see conclusion later)
Reasons for my Kundalini issues:
1. Taking on too much energy related practices in too short time
I made big steps and added a lot of more advanced practices too fast I believe. This was especially evil as it took multiple weeks until symptoms showed up (e.g. inflammations) and I couldn't connect them to the daily practice. (Cause and effect unclear, timeframe a few months)
2. Living environment
I was working in a high pressure working environment as remote worker. I started AYP when I just rented out my apartment and was travelling as a digital nomad with just a backpack through Europe. Having no homebase any more and travelling and switching countries too fast was contributing a significant amount to the "non-grounding".
3. Core values / Soul pain
Another thing was that I worked for a company where I found four of my five core values (love, personal development, meaningfulness) constantly violated. This lead to a burned-out state, which brought me to Yoga, but was also a state that was not a good base to feel grounded when I wanted to deepen my practice.
In retrospective I learned that overload is often a symptom of too much practice. In my case it made sense to take a look on the current and direct past living situation that contributed to the issues. Most of my issues were due a hurt soul and too stressful life. This took the base for my grounding away: a perfect environment for overload issues.
And now the bridge back to issues with mental illness:
I recently read a book about communication, which briefly covers mental disorders in the context of inner conflicts. One current explanation for those symptoms is that somewhere in the life there is such a pain inside the human, that the brain/soul/mind will react in a certain way to "protect" the human. I want to say that there might be the possibility that there are contributing facts in your current living circumstances (overload) and also in the past (when you became ill) that contribute to the symptoms described in the start thread.
I hope I was able to offer some thoughts I have on living-circumstances and environment, MI and overload. In any case, please take care and stay safe.
Hugs,
el aguacate 
PS: I also want to share this work of a doctor I met on a retreat: http://www.elizabethvisceglia.com/d...jyt_2007.pdf |
Edited by - aguacate on Oct 27 2017 8:14:26 PM |
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Mountain
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2018 : 3:14:15 PM
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Thank you all again for more helpful and insightful comments.
Out of respect, I feel I should respond. In this moment, however, my mind is very still. And I am 'struggling' (if that is even the correct word) to find the volition to type. I sense it may be useful to see this process for anyone who is/has struggled with MI.
So, as it happens, I just gave up. Over the last couple of months I gave up practice; I gave up trying to achieve anything in the world. Just sort of ...surrendered. I have been tending towards this for a year or so, but the last few months have been a very still life. No volition to achieving anything. Nowhere to be. Nowhere to go. Utter simplicity. 'Lazy' some might say. This has been coming for a while. I see it now. A repeating cycle that was harrowing at first: recurrent psychosis in 2006, 2011, 2014; but has revolved, iteratively, into an ever more gentle entropic cycle. Decaying of the cycle, leading into greater stillness. Greater inner peace. Abiding inner calm.
I guess these last few months, I just needed to step back and let the process do its own thing for a while. Without intentional practice other than what arises in any given moment. Just allowing the cycle to self-liberate based on the momentum(?) built up by ...practice? lifetimes/karma unfolding? Kundalini creating inner space? Cosmology revolving? All of the above? None? I really couldn't say.
...I just know that the art of doing (mostly) nothing, seems to have been appropriate. And I was fortunate to be in a life situation to do so. Thanks, unfathomable karma ...I guess 
The only active element for my part was not resisting both, inside, and out-in-the-world phenomena from arising. Settling back into formlessness when that seemed appropriate. With this there were occasional moments of zen-like simplicity. As I went about cooking, walking and sitting staring into the world with little or no interior activity. Few thoughts, sensations, almost no-emotions arising. Over time, this has grown into (what I assume is) Savikalpa (I hope that I am getting the terms correct). Very clear mind a lot of the time now.
Of course, I also experience no volition to do anything. Life and death seem ... Just a kind of residing in a ... calm indifference. Unable to feel the need to create; to better my surroundings, or think about the future ...even my deep yearning to help the human race in some undefined way is slowly receding. Dropping away. Everything is as it should be. I have no part to play; need no part... am not needed. Everything is resolving in its own way. Self-liberating.
I suppose it is becoming a blissful state to reside in. It is certainly deeply peaceful. Any slight anxiety and the occasional paranoid thoughts have almost entirely resolved out of my interior experience. I mean this when I am out in the world (not in meditation which I have not been intentionally doing).
Having said this, I feel no sense of receiving love. Sexual arousal, along with K have been on a very low ebb for many months now.
Testosterone chronically low. HPG regulation? Hypothalamus (Crown) limiting hormonal signals to release Testosterone. Thereby reducing the 'kindling' of Kundalini?
Also adrenals have found a new equilibrium. HPA Axis disrupted. Elevated cortisol = Adrenal burnout? Makes sense after a lifetime of stress and premature (and harrowing) Kundalini awakening. Manipura (adrenal glands) settled.
...so in only the last week I started (very very limited) practice again. Just in time, I met a new acquaintance from a Druid circle I attend; it seems she has awakened K as well as all the love, inner sexual eros and creative outpouring that I do not experience. She has appeared just at, hopefully, just the correct time for this hopeful acolyte *points to self* to gently rebuild ecstatic conductivity and cleanse a troublesome nervous system. Healing, right? Sexual healing. Sounds great!
'Ascent' seems to be largely taking care of itself. Abiding inner calm. Early stages of Samadhi(?). Now it may be time for the 'Descent' path out into ecstatic form. Hopefully it will be possible to tolerate a little 'special K' in my breakfast bowl in the months ahead ^_^
Another very interesting development, Very recently I have stopped being exclusively the ego-centric core by which I observe the world. I now am able to 'feel' myself as merely a small star amongst a landscape of similar stars all working our way around our day-to-day activity; quite oblivious of one another. This may be a clue as to the mental illness and developmental arrest that is characteristic of paranoia, psychosis, schizophrenia(i.e. trauma at an ego-centric stage of early development?)
Ok, so there was one important thing I should mention. As well as doing mostly no practice, I also started the GAPS diet. No grains. No cow dairy. No sugar. Reducing alcohol to nothing. Repopulating guts with healthy bacteria (lots of sauerkraut and roquefort cheese). There is research, which backs up lots of claims for the link between diet, intestinal health and mental illness ...but I cannot link it. Nevermind. For anyone who has suffered from psychosis, or other extreme mental states, I would recommend Dr Natasha's Book on the GAPS diet. It's all about those microbes that live in yer guts. It seems that the "City of Jewels" has whole civilisations of mini-folks living in their hollowed walls. 
Good Times. |
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Mountain
United Kingdom
6 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2018 : 4:01:17 PM
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Blue Raincoat
I know. Psychiatry has so much wrong. It saddens me immensely to think that there are still poor souls experiencing the horrors that I endured in the cells of hospitals. Let alone the harrowing effects of unnatural chemicals on bodies and minds of young men and women. Young people especially need good counselling. Everyone could do with bodywork/transpersonal therapy. And of course, Yoga
Having said that, what medicine may have right as regards psychosis is that excess dopamine is somehow implicated. Giving sufferers dopamine antagonist ('anti-psychotics') may be helpful in the short-term (but not in the medium to long term). I say this based on the cutting-edge research by naturopathy (or functional medicine). It is early days, but there seems to be a link between a certain strain of (claustridium) bacteria, which releases toxins that interfere with the brain's neurochemistry. Causing excess dopamine.
If you (or anyone reading this) is interested in knowing more, then search in youtube for "dr bartemus psychosis". Hence why the GAPS diet may have worked for me, as it limits the foods that feed the pathogenic bacteria. And encourages more of the beneficial bugs.
Of course, Naturopaths say diet is the cause and solution to most illnesses. Just as Chiropractors say it is spinal subluxion. I guess yogis say it is rampant unbalanced energy vs. lack of inner silence. Haha, sometimes you just gotta agree with all of them. Medicine has the best diagnostics for most things ...but then it tends to treat the most superficial level of symptoms. Rarely getting to the cause.
Colours
"Bright snow" and vast forest of evergreen trees, sounds amazing. Epic landscape. I will surely have to visit before the disaster of Brexit. I am glad you enjoyed it in Ireland. The people are super friendly, and it can be really pretty ..that is, when it's not raining ..which is almost never. I have family from Cork. A beautiful part of the world t'be sure
Yup, Nature it seems is very healing. Today I laid down with the nape of my neck on a tree. My awareness went into the depths of the ground. Anxiety dropped away. Formless bliss. It was a good suggestion, thanks.
Aguacate
Thanks so much for sharing your insights. Very comprehensive. Hopefully this thread will give sufferers something to work with.
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aguacate
Germany
44 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2018 : 5:57:47 PM
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| @Mountain keep us posted how you are doing the next months! The diet thing sounds interesting |
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Mental Illness - a cruel karma?
