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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 19 2016 : 11:46:55 AM
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Disclaimer: not much happens in practices, things happen at night, but......
Repeatedly, over and over again, I get on the brink of silence in a whopping 5 min of breath meditation, the energy kicks in, and I'm fried. I've been at this for years. I've taken time off. I've tried sitting up resting, laying down resting, resting for longer, resting for shorter times.
I get very close to silence. It's like silence with a random thought here or there, but a strong background. I finish my tiny practice and rest. Afterwards, I have a strong background of silence. Then, during regular life, a thought will come. This time it was violent thoughts. Then more. Then the energy will shoot from my lower belly over and over. The thoughts will become overwhelming. No letting this go. My awareness feels like it goes out of my head; then the frying. I've learnt that I can recover much more quickly by sitting through this, and then going walking. If I try to exercise while it's going on, it's worse.
In the past, it has happened with a happy thought, then the shooting energy, etc. I don't feel like it's a personal problem, even though I haven't read an account like I'm giving.
I exercise. It's 15 degrees here. No, I'm not taking daily walks in nature. I can exercise indoors, which I do.
I don't know how to get past this. It keeps happening. Silence causes the shooting energy.
I'm sick of it. Any more of this, and I am so done.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 19 2016 : 1:17:18 PM
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Hi Lalow,
Sorry to hear you are having problems.
It sounds like you have got a lot of purification going on. The anger is a common experience related to the purification of the manipura chakra and the heart chakra. It is simply repressed energy being released.
It is quite a common experience and I know few people who have practised yoga for a long time who have not been through it. It is good to release the anger, rather than repressing it, but not good to release it onto those you love. Or even onto those you don't love  .
If you are finding that it is even triggered by just 5 minutes of breathing meditation, then I would recommend cutting right back on practices. You could do a gentle asana routine every day and focus more on service to others as a spiritual practice. Both these things will help to purify and open the heart, but in a more gentle way.
With grounding and exercise, it is good to be aware that strong physical exercise is not necessarily grounding. It can actually stimulate kundalini and make symptoms worse, if you are experiencing negative symptoms. So walking, cleaning, gardening and so on can be more grounding and less stimulating.
The good news is that you will come through this. Once the manipura chakra and the heart chakra are purified, you will no longer experience the negative energies related to them and will begin to experience only the positive energies. The positive energies related to the manipura chakra and the heart chakra are compassion, sensitivity to others, openness, love and joy. Then you will be wondering: "where did all that anger go?" .
Of course, by that time, other things will be happening associated with the higher centres, so you will not have too much time to ponder on it. 
When things settle down, which could happen in just a few weeks, or months, you could try to re-introduce a gentle meditation practice again. Testing the waters from time to time to see how you react would be advisable. Then you will gradually be able to build up a full practice.
best wishes,
Christi |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 09:05:38 AM
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Hi lalow,
Do you mind sharing what you mean by being fried?
The 3rd chakra deals with our sense of self and it is a good thing what is going on.
I have found the purification never really ends but it isn't something to be afraid of.
The thing is when this stuff starts happening and you are feeling a little overwhelmed is not to clamp down but to reside.
Like a form of meditation, get past the thoughts and reside in those flows of energy. This will help to let things go.
All the best,
Tom |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 1:33:22 PM
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I'm here on AYP, but I don't really have a strong yoga view point. "Purification never ends, lots of purification, this chakra opening means this..." Those words do not mean a lot to me. I have learnt to just do nothing if energy is shooting. My experience is that it is embedded with the thought energy that came from silence. I don't correlate it with this or that chakra. The thought appears from silence then the shooting energy, then more thoughts and more energy. This time it was overwhelming. Everything happens quicker and faster now within an hour I have the sores coming out of my nose.
jonesboy, fried means a burnt nervous system. |
Edited by - lalow33 on Dec 21 2016 1:34:20 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 3:10:05 PM
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You need to plug in.
For me, plugging in means picking up the guitar, petting our bull dog, and so many other things I've listed before. You can find your own tricks and ways to connect to the ground source. The wisdom is inside, and it's linked to your instinct to be happy and content. We're all tapping into the same kind of desire.
Don't try to let the practices override the happiness/comfort instinct. Let the instinct dictate the practices, in that order.
I would be weary about any promises that anger will disappear, which might be more of an emotional lobotomy than a transformation of emotional energy. The lobotomy leads to a stagnant, passive witness state; the route of transformation leads to increased strength, resilience, and an outpouring of divine love (not just "compassion", which is not nearly as powerful as divine love on the vibrational scale. Compassion is often a cotton candy, Dalai Lama-type word that doesn't have as much traction or grit in producing genuine results.) This lesson is pivotal: http://www.aypsite.org/340.html
All you have to do is direct your anger to your chosen ideal, and keep feeding that vision. You may want to dream of your own version of what it looks and feels like to continue nurturing your own goddess-ness. That will move you towards a smoother and chiller place that is more pleasurable for the nerves. Goddess-ness is the key word here.
Don't worry, I relate to your struggles. But I've made progress, and small adjustments and a little dreaming go a long way. |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 3:57:19 PM
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Such a beautiful response Bodhi as always.
quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Compassion is often a cotton candy, Dalai Lama-type word that doesn't have as much traction or grit in producing genuine results.)
I would not say Compassion is "cotton candy". Instead it comes from having a heart of a lion and heart of gold. It comes from dealing with our pain and being totally vulnerable, naked, without defenses .
Yes, directing our anger to our Isthas works. But at some point, we have to be compassionate to our Istha too and embrace them.
Just my two cents for what it's worth. |
Edited by - sunyata on Dec 21 2016 4:04:46 PM |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 4:22:45 PM
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Bodhi,
My Ishta is all cool with everything. I don't know how to direct anything to him anymore. After this last round of " purification ", it seems silly, seems like a choice . I'm not sure. All I know is what I wrote about sucks. |
Edited by - lalow33 on Dec 21 2016 5:06:22 PM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 4:53:15 PM
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Yes, it's tough sometimes. I have experienced waves of intense anger a few times.
quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
I've learnt that I can recover much more quickly by sitting through this, and then going walking. If I try to exercise while it's going on, it's worse.
I found that to be the case too. Best to let it come out when it wants to.
You are coming through it Lalow.
All the best
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 5:23:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
Bodhi,
After this last round of " purification ", it seems silly, seems like a choice . I'm not sure. All I know is what I wrote about sucks.
Lalow,
Your writing in genuine. When I go through energetic overload, apart from grounding- I remind myself that this too shall pass like all things in Life. And that the body is detoxing for the better. |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 5:33:21 PM
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| sunyata, it's not nice, but after my last round of whatever, there seems to be a choice. I don't know how to explain it. It's like we are choosing to have this or that experience 'cause we think we should. I'm not 100% on that. I don't know. |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 5:42:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
sunyata, it's not nice, but after my last round of whatever, there seems to be a choice. I don't know how to explain it. It's like we are choosing to have this or that experience 'cause we think we should. I'm not 100% on that. I don't know.
That's it! The I Am'nes- untouched even by energetic overload. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 5:43:07 PM
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You're in my prayers, as always, Lalow. We shall persevere through the suckiness, individually and collectively.
@Sunyata:
From the Google dictionary:
com·pas·sion
sympathetic pity and concern for the sufferings or misfortunes of others.
Origin
Middle English: via Old French from ecclesiastical Latin compassio(n-), from compati ‘suffer with.’
I'm not anti-compassion, obviously. But I've had considerable experience trying to "suffer with" others out of pity and concern. For instance, I lived in a house with a group of young AA fellows, and my compassion led me to indulge in a certain kind of co-dependence where I was paying their share of rent and carrying a heavy load, which didn't help them do the necessary work to transform themselves.
It's best summed up by the wisdom: If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.
Also, compassion reminds me of watching TV and seeing starving children, and feeling sorry for them, and then donating a little money, which is all well and good. But in my opinion, it doesn't address the root cause and is more of a band-aid effect to the suffering than a permanent solution. It would be like donating to AYP without taking up daily practices or building an ishta. Sure, the donation is helpful, but not as helpful as changing one's habits and significantly opening one's mind and body to stillness in action.
quote:
Originally posted by sunyata
It comes from dealing with our pain and being totally vulnerable, naked, without defenses.
I don't find much merit in being totally vulnerable and without defenses. I like being naked, however, in the right circumstances. But I don't like offering myself up to be attacked by anyone or anything, which is essentially what deliberately being vulnerable and without defenses would equate to. I can take a few hits (and have literally done so when fighting physically), but I'm not a pure masochist who wants to get beaten to a pulp.
Furthermore, on the note of the immune system, and its defense against sickness, I'm not a fan of making that shield vulnerable and defenseless. I like it to be as impenetrable as possible, because a healthy body and mind feels pretty good. In the same sense, a weakening of one's energy field will lead to accidents and misfortunes, whereas a strengthening of the field will lead to the opposite.
Of course, I understand about being vulnerable and defenseless with a trusted, intimate partner, which is what I'm sure you meant in the first place, but as a blanket statement, I find it to be a little confusing, since the world is still a wild and threatening place, in a very real sense. Fortunately, stillness in action, ecstatic bliss, and an outpouring of divine love automatically mitigate those factors.
Incidentally, communication over the Internet provides a nice buffer and boundary that mostly protects us from being unknowingly naked, vulnerable, or without defenses. Although Edward Snowden might advocate a more active use of encryption.  |
Edited by - Bodhi Tree on Dec 21 2016 5:52:41 PM |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 7:19:32 PM
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Hi Bodhi,
quote:
I'm not anti-compassion, obviously. But I've had considerable experience trying to "suffer with" others out of pity and concern. For instance, I lived in a house with a group of young AA fellows, and my compassion led me to indulge in a certain kind of co-dependence where I was paying their share of rent and carrying a heavy load, which didn't help them do the necessary work to transform themselves.
I understand. I have similar compassionate qualities like you described which has often turned me into a doormat. Life is the best teacher so I’m learning too. However, I still feel compassion is one of timeless qualities of pure bliss consciousness.
quote:
Also, compassion reminds me of watching TV and seeing starving children, and feeling sorry for them, and then donating a little money, which is all well and good. Sure, the donation is helpful, but not as helpful as changing one's habits and significantly opening one's mind and body to stillness in action
Since this was brought up. I don’t know the extent of your travels. Not sure if it’s limited to only first world and second world countries. Have you ever had the opportunity to travel to a third world country?
I was born in a third world country but in a privilege family in that context. I lived a very comfortable life. However, there was suffering all around me- people living by open sewage, six year old boys sniffing glue to beat hunger, girls who haven’t even reached puberty sold in brothels, a woman who works hard for less than a dollar a day cleaning the streets and gets home to be only beaten by her drunk husband and so on.
I was sent to a neighboring country for my education. My mom is very active with social work so when I would come home for the holidays she would take me to all the remote places of the county. People eating rice and salt and water because they didn’t have money to buy food. I would bawl my eyes out every time seeing these things. Questions such as these would run through my head - How unfair is Life? What if I was born in these situations? How can I get rid of all their suffering? My heart would explode in pain every day even though I had nothing to complain about. This was because I hadn’t learnt/discovered Samyama yet.
I’m giving these examples because spirituality comes once our basic needs have been met- food, clothing and shelter. It’s for the Elite. For those of us who have first world problems and we are very fortunate for that and should enjoy it. Yes, ideally we would want to teach them meditation and how to change habits but honestly they just want some food to satisfy their hunger. So donating money, clothing, food would be more spiritual in this situation in my humble opinion. There may be anomalies willing to learn meditation.
And, I meant being vulnerable, naked, defenseless with myself and not even with a partner. I’ve discovered a lot of defense mechanism that I held/hold as I continue my inner journey. As I see through them, I’m able to be even more open and compassionate with the world around me and there is still beauty in this world and not as dangerous as it seems.
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Edited by - sunyata on Dec 21 2016 10:18:21 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 7:21:43 PM
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Hi Bodhi,
This is from the Wikipedia page on compassion:
"Compassion is the response to the suffering of others that motivates a desire to help.
Compassion motivates people to go out of their way to help physical, spiritual, or emotional hurts or pains of another.... There is also an aspect of compassion which regards a quantitative dimension, such that individual's compassion is often given a property of "depth," "vigour," or "passion." The etymology of "compassion" is Latin, meaning "co-suffering." More involved than simple empathy, compassion commonly gives rise to an active desire to alleviate another's suffering.
Compassion is often, though not inevitably, the key component in what manifests in the social context as altruism. In ethical terms, the expressions down the ages of the so-called Golden Rule often embodies by implication the principle of compassion: Do to others what you would have them do to you.
.... Ranked a great virtue in numerous philosophies, compassion is considered in almost all the major religious traditions as among the greatest of virtues."
That was the sense in which I was using the word compassion above. Sorry if there was a mis-understanding caused.
When the manipura chakra opens and purifies, we feel what other people feel. So if they feel pain, we will feel that pain too in our body. In other words, we co-suffer (com-passion) with them. When the heart chakra opens and purifies, it does not give rise to a sense of pity, but rather to a sense of love and a desire to help alleviate any pain felt by others (again, com-passion, but a different kind of compassion). So compassion is the motivation for selfless service and an aspect of outpouring divine love.
Christi |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 8:36:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sunyata
I was born in a third world country but in a privilege family in that context. I lived a very comfortable life. However, there was suffering all around me- people living by open sewage, six year old boys sniffing glue to beat hunger, girls who haven’t even reached puberty sold in brothels, a woman who works hard for less than a dollar a day cleaning the streets and gets home to be only beaten by her drunk husband and so on.
I was sent to a neighboring country for my education. My mom is very active with social work so when I would come home for the holidays she would take me to all the remote places of the county. People eating rice and salt and water because they didn’t have money to buy food. I would ball my eyes out every time seeing these things. Questions like these would run through my head - How unfair is Life? What if I was born in these situations? How can I get rid of all their suffering? My heart would explode in pain every day even though I had nothing to complain about. This was because I hadn’t learnt/discovered Samyama yet.
I’m giving these examples because spirituality comes once our basic needs have been met- food, clothing and shelter. It’s for the Elite. For those of us who have first world problems and we are very fortunate for that and should enjoy it. Yes, ideally we would want to teach them meditation and how to change habits but honestly they just want some food to satisfy their hunger. So donating money, clothing, food would be more spiritual in this situation in my humble opinion.
And, I meant being vulnerable, naked, defenseless with myself and not even with a partner. I’ve discovered a lot of defense mechanism that I held/hold in my inner journey. As I see though them, I’m able to be even more open and compassionate with the world around me and there is still beauty in this world and not as dangerous as it seems.
Wow. Strong response. Great stuff.
Would Costa Rica be considered a third-world country? Maybe not, because of the buzzing ecotourism industry. Anyway, I've been there. But I want to travel more, and certainly to other impoverished countries. Hey—why don't we share a long-term vision to ultimately open up some AYP centers in those areas?! To alleviate the suffering, compassionately. Seriously. 
quote:
Originally posted by Christi
When the manipura chakra opens and purifies, we feel what other people feel.
Maybe one day my manipura chakra will open and purify, so that I can feel what other people feel, if I'm lucky.*
*[considerably more tongue-in-cheek than my sincere response to Sunyata] |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 9:24:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Would Costa Rica be considered a third-world country? Maybe not, because of the buzzing ecotourism industry. Anyway, I've been there. But I want to travel more, and certainly to other impoverished countries. Hey—why don't we share a long-term vision to ultimately open up some AYP centers in those areas?! To alleviate the suffering, compassionately. Seriously.
I guess.Did you go for the all inclusive Caribbean vacation? They are the best!
Yes! that's on my list and something which we can do. It would be more on the lines of providing education, food, clothing and AYP practice.
My cousin opened a non for profit organization 10 years ago to help children between 6 months to 9 years whose parents are dealing with issues of addiction, abuse, and neglect.
The days when my Bhakti is high- I envy her for the service she is able to provide. |
Edited by - sunyata on Dec 21 2016 9:30:42 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 9:48:33 PM
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Yes, the resort was pretty all-inclusive, though we rented a car and did some exploring on our own. The forests are as lush as can be. All kinds of color and wildlife. Pura vida, as they say there.
Glad to hear about your cousin making the world a better place. The family apple doesn't fall far from the tree.  |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 21 2016 : 10:14:21 PM
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Nice!
Sorry Lalow,didn't mean to hijack this thread.
quote:
but after my last round of whatever, there seems to be a choice. I don't know how to explain it. It's like we are choosing to have this or that experience 'cause we think we should. I'm not 100% on that. I don't know.
This is great! You now have a choice to not go downhill with the energetic overload. Abiding inner silence. |
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Dennis
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2016 : 01:54:10 AM
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This brings up something I've been wondering about. I'm guessing that people are born into situations that are needed to work out their karma. If those people are helped, does that negate some of the karmic experiences they need to progress spiritually?
Please don't get me wrong, I think we should help our fellow man/woman, but it's how we help. I'm a believer in Star Treks 'prime directive', which is non-interference with other civilizations. When I look at history and how interference in other cultures has had terrible results, I wonder if more harm than good has been done.
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2016 : 09:06:08 AM
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Hi Dennis,
Good questions. I’ve questioned life and asked these questions ever since I can remember. Perhaps it was all the suffering that I witnessed. The example I gave is of a country where there is a big gap between the “haves” and the ‘have nots”. But this is the reality of this world, only the gap gets smaller once we speak of the developed countries.
To quote Yogani on Karma.
quote:
Originally posted by Yogani
It has been said that the consequences of karma are unfathomable. If we throw a stone in a pond, can we know the full effects it will have? Can we trace the effect of every ripple going out, and the effect of every ripple coming back from the opposite bank? Perhaps we can if we develop a mathematical model that is sufficiently sophisticated.
It has been said that the flapping of a butterfly's wings will influence the most distant star. Can we predict the results of that?
Astrologers spend their careers doing something like that, attempting to determine the influence of the gravitational forces of the planets and stars in our lives. Is it possible? The best astrologers might be right a little more than half the time, so there is something to it. But is this enough to say that we can know the consequences of karma in the cosmic sense?
Likewise, it is said that the influences in our lives that may defy logical explanation are the result of actions we have undertaken in past lives, the result of our numerous incarnations in bodily form - our karmic tendencies sown in a distant past we no longer remember. Is this a good argument for reincarnation? It does offer a rationale for the inexplicable events we may experience in life, and the apparent gifts and handicaps that innocent children may arrive with at birth. But can we really know for sure? Should we be spending our precious time looking back into the murky realms of past lives to understand reasons for what is happening in our lives today? If we work at it long enough, we may find some clarity. But, for the most part, it will be unfathomable, like gazing at star charts, or pondering the effects of stones thrown in ponds, or the whisperings of butterfly wings traveling across the universe.
Our destiny may be hidden in the stars, but the rest will be up to us through the choices we make each day to forward our spiritual progress through practices. We can watch for the lingering effects of ancient events, taking the role of spectator, or we can act in ways that directly influence all outcomes in the here and now, taking the role of participant. In these lessons, we take an active role in moving through the karmic maze, transcending and transforming its manifestations to serve our chosen ideal through bhakti and our daily yoga practices.
In doing so, we will be cultivating abiding inner silence, ecstatic conductivity and stillness in action, leading to the natural ability to transform karmic consequences at their source.
The guru is in you.
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Please don't get me wrong, I think we should help our fellow man/woman, but it's how we help. I'm a believer in Star Treks 'prime directive', which is non-interference with other civilizations.
The biggest realization on this path is there is no “other”. The feeling of "Other" is the cause of all the problems in this world.
In some spiritual circles we often hear “This world is an illusion”. This world is real but to think we are “separate” is the “illusion”.
When we feel pain in our body, we go see a doctor, yes? So when there is no “other”, when we witness suffering the natural action is to help. How much and in what ways we are able to help depends on individual circumstances.
To live from this place is the greatest joy. Along with joy, we will feel all the pain of the world but the bliss and ecstasy comes back hundred fold. This is when stillness moves. It no longer becomes what we experience, what we do on the meditation cushion but how we are off the cushion. This is the real test.
When all of human civilization starts living from this place, we will be buzzing in bliss. We are slowly moving towards this. There is no “Other” only “Oneness” “One being”.
quote:
When I look at history and how interference in other cultures has had terrible results, I wonder if more harm than good has been done.
We have to look closely- Are these action coming from a place of "Love"?
Forgive my ramblings but I can't contain this joy at times. These realization have dawned slowly over the years of practice and continue to do so.
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Edited by - sunyata on Dec 23 2016 09:45:16 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2016 : 6:04:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sunyata
The biggest realization on this path is there is no “other”. The feeling of "Other" is the cause of all the problems in this world.
I like that.
Once all is seen as Self, how can one hate another in any absolute sense? Too painful.
The antithesis of otherness, however, is too pleasurable to deny. |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2016 : 8:24:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
quote:
Originally posted by sunyata
The biggest realization on this path is there is no “other”. The feeling of "Other" is the cause of all the problems in this world.
I like that.
Once all is seen as Self, how can one hate another in any absolute sense? Too painful.
The antithesis of otherness, however, is too pleasurable to deny.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2016 : 9:15:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I'm a believer in Star Treks 'prime directive', which is non-interference with other civilizations.
Yes.  |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2016 : 9:39:31 PM
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Anyone else have something about too much energy with silence? Seems like there's a choice.
I don't know about the definition of compassion, and the other things mentioned in this thread.
Anyone else get to silence then a thought, then the energy is filled with that thought/emotion? That looks like creation. Can't we choose something else? Do we not get what we believe? Isn't our ishtas all cool with whatever and just giving us what we believe or think? Maybe, it's not completely conscious, maybe it's hidden beliefs.
Clarity or too much energy shows me that the thoughts will happen if I believe them. I'm negative, so it sucks. Maybe, if I was geared towards positive, I wouldn't even see this, or think I was blessed. |
Edited by - lalow33 on Dec 23 2016 9:51:05 PM |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2016 : 9:49:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
Anyone else get to silence then a thought, then the energy is filled with that thought/emotion? That looks like creation. Can't we choose something else?
We can let go of the thought in silence. As you noticed, the more attention we give to the thought, the powerful it becomes so choose silence over thought. |
Edited by - sunyata on Dec 23 2016 9:59:15 PM |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2016 : 9:57:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
Clarity or too much energy shows me that the thoughts will happen if I believe them. I'm negative, so it sucks. Maybe, if I was geared towards positive, I wouldn't even see this, or think I was blessed.
Clarity comes from equanimity.
Too much energy means overload.
We have a choice to be positive. It's a habit. We can slowly train ourselves to look/see the positive things in a given situation. You are doing great.
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Edited by - sunyata on Dec 23 2016 10:02:02 PM |
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Too much energy after arriving near silence
