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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 20 2015 : 2:30:15 PM
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quote:
Sunyata,
You really have a beautiful feel to you
No.
A rock is not the same. For some reason I need you to understand this Sunyata.
Divine beings expand us. Impart Siddhis and expand us in amazing ways.
A rock just sits there.
Much love,
Tom
Thanks, Tom. This is what the Divine beings showed me- not to look up in the sky or other realms of existence. But to find what I was looking for all my life- yes even in the rock that just sits there.
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2015 : 2:48:10 PM
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I am telling you there is more.
Much more.
Feel the oneness and the emptiness of the rock. The rock being there allows it to be your guru.
A Divine being is a whole different level. |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2015 : 2:52:14 PM
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| Okay. I'm interested. Please share the much more part. |
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - Nov 20 2015 : 4:20:46 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jonesboy
If anything I wanted to convey that Ishtas are real and that they can and do help people.
My intent posting at AYP is never to bring the attention to what I do or what I experience.
Hi jonesboy,
Yes, Ishtas exist and each have their own vibrational effects.
The reason why Ishta is kept very broad here is so that anyone could get started, regardless of their inclinations and beliefs about what they perceive or do not perceive.
The chosen Ishtas can change as one evolves. They need not change.
Only possibilities, no limitations.
Some have already shared special experiences with Ishtas on the forum. Such posts are very inspiring and uplifting. Only saying in case you feel it appropriate to talk about, it would be welcome.
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2015 : 3:06:11 PM
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Hi Jonesboy that which underlies all, there is nothing more to it than that. But I will say more about means and ways.
That which underlies all requires no description and the very attempt misses the target as it must for all language is based on inference : a conclusion reached on the basis of evidence and reasoning.
or cognition: the mental action or process of acquiring knowledge and understanding through thought, experience, and the senses.
not direct knowing: Direct Knowing, is Direct Knowing; Entire philosophies are written about it. Lol they all miss the point.
The best words can do is affirm yes there is something which underlies all.
Yes there are practices which one can do and regularly, directly know, for themselves.
The practices set the stage for direct knowing of that which underlies all to be directly known.
Some practices work better for some than others dependent on many reasons and in the end it is all about setting the stage and the stage will not be the same for all.
The best a person can be expected to do is experiment and discover how to best set the stage that suits them, that is all.
That is all that can really be said if anything more than this simple way of saying is done then it is going further and further afield and away from the point of direct knowing.
Even this saying has gone way far afield. So now I am going to stop saying about that which can not be described.
quote:
Originally posted by jonesboy
quote:
Originally posted by So-Hi
Hi Jonesboy unity is not it, beings are not it, anything your mind can describe is not it, that which underlies all of that go there and know, or do not, there are many pleasant things in between but they are not the 'description-less it' being shared about, it has to be done by the individual.
Hi So-Hi,
I would say yes and no.
Yes, absolutely it is the individual that has to let go. There should be no doubt what so ever that a guru can help speed that along. Is that not what Krishna, Jesus and Lahri were? Guru's helping others.. They help to provide the energy and the space/silence for the person to let things go.
I would also say that it is not description-less. It has been described many times.
Here is one that really helped me.
Self Liberation through Seeing with Naked Awareness
By Padmasambhava
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2015 : 3:31:20 PM
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Jonesboy Oh Ha, ha, ha Lol good, good I replied before following the link see how words dance around like a whirl pool that never enter the center on that page.
See how the attempt is an attempt to make an intuitive leap. Fun. |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2015 : 09:43:07 AM
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Hi So-Hi,
We are talking about a couple of different things I believe.
You are talking about clarity/oneness. You call it formless often, but really formless is something much farther down the road.
The path that everyone only thinks about is oneness. I keep saying there is depth.
Once one has opened all of the chakras, they unify and one can realize the sambhogakaya. This is a real body that one can feel, touch, see and taste with.
When I say I can work with Divine beings. I am saying that there body overlays my body. Ecstatic energy beyond anything you can image is felt over the entire body when the merge happens.
After merging with Divine beings I have walked in fields, seen through there eyes. I have felt silence so strong that I was paralyzed with it.
As one progresses and one merges. Formless means you are no longer locked into your "Form" so to speak. You can take on any form. No longer is Jesus merging into me and filling me with light, love, calm and silence. Being formless one is Jesus. So that if you were to look at me with sight you would see Jesus. Before one reaches the stage of formlessness if I were to merge with Jesus and look at me, you would still see me.
Now this is a continuation of progression. Yes their is still oneness. Before someone gets to the formless state, believe me they have the ability to think of a heart and they are the heart. To walk and be one with all that which is around them in a flowing manner.
Think of the progression like a progression of oneness outward and as your clarity of oneness grows to include more and more of what is more and more becomes possible.
I will also say that none of this is astral. I don't play in the astral. I don't do anything astral or with lucid dreams.
I am also not at the formless state...... yet 
Hi Charliedog,
Thank you for your kind words.
Forgive my late response. I had to think about how much to share is what took me so long.
Much love,
Tom |
Edited by - jonesboy on Nov 23 2015 09:50:17 AM |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Nov 23 2015 : 09:43:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by So-Hi
Jonesboy Oh Ha, ha, ha Lol good, good I replied before following the link see how words dance around like a whirl pool that never enter the center on that page.
See how the attempt is an attempt to make an intuitive leap. Fun.
I think it tells us straight out.
As for this sparkling awareness, which is called "mind,"
Even though one says that it exists, it does not actually exist.
(On the other hand) as a source, it is the origin of the diversity of all the bliss of Nirvana and all of the sorrow of Samsara.
And as for it¡¯s being something desirable; it is cherished alike in the Eleven Vehicles.
With respect to its having a name, the various names that are applied to it are inconceivable (in their numbers).
Some call it "the nature of the mind" or "mind itself."
Some Tirthikas call it by the name Atman or "the Self."
The Sravakas call it the doctrine of Anatman or "the absence of a self."
The Chittamatrins call it by the name Chitta or "the Mind."
Some call it the Praj?¨¢p¨¢ramit¨¢ or "the Perfection of Wisdom."
Some call it the name Tathagata-garbha or "the embryo of Buddhahood."
Some call it by the name Mahamudra or "the Great Symbol."
Some call it by the name "the Unique Sphere."
Some call it by the name Dharmadhatu or "the dimension of Reality."
Some call it by the name Alaya or "the basis of everything."
And some simply call it by the name "ordinary awareness."
7.
Now, when you are introduced (to your own intrinsic awareness), the method for entering into it involves three considerations:
Thoughts in the past are clear and empty and leave no traces behind.
Thoughts in the future are fresh and unconditioned by anything.
And in the present moment, when (your mind) remains in its own condition without constructing anything,
awareness, at that moment, in itself is quite ordinary.
And when you look into yourself in this way nakedly (without any discursive thoughts),
Since there is only this pure observing, there will be found a lucid clarity without anyone being there who is the observer;
only a naked manifest awareness is present.
(This awareness) is empty and immaculately pure, not being created by anything whatsoever.
It is authentic and unadulterated, without any duality of clarity and emptiness.
It is not permanent and yet it is not created by anything.
However, it is not a mere nothingness or something annihilated because it is lucid and present.
It does not exist as a single entity because it is present and clear in terms of being many.
(On the other hand) it is not created as a multiplicity of things because it is inseparable and of a single flavor.
This inherent self-awareness does not derive from anything outside itself.
This is the real introduction to the actual condition of things.
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2015 : 03:57:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jonesboy
Hi So-Hi,
We are talking about a couple of different things I believe.
You are talking about clarity/oneness. You call it formless often, but really formless is something much farther down the road.
The path that everyone only thinks about is oneness. I keep saying there is depth.
Once one has opened all of the chakras, they unify and one can realize the sambhogakaya. This is a real body that one can feel, touch, see and taste with.
When I say I can work with Divine beings. I am saying that there body overlays my body. Ecstatic energy beyond anything you can image is felt over the entire body when the merge happens.
After merging with Divine beings I have walked in fields, seen through there eyes. I have felt silence so strong that I was paralyzed with it.
As one progresses and one merges. Formless means you are no longer locked into your "Form" so to speak. You can take on any form. No longer is Jesus merging into me and filling me with light, love, calm and silence. Being formless one is Jesus. So that if you were to look at me with sight you would see Jesus. Before one reaches the stage of formlessness if I were to merge with Jesus and look at me, you would still see me.
Now this is a continuation of progression. Yes their is still oneness. Before someone gets to the formless state, believe me they have the ability to think of a heart and they are the heart. To walk and be one with all that which is around them in a flowing manner.
Think of the progression like a progression of oneness outward and as your clarity of oneness grows to include more and more of what is more and more becomes possible.
I will also say that none of this is astral. I don't play in the astral. I don't do anything astral or with lucid dreams.
I am also not at the formless state...... yet
It seems what you call formless and depth towards formless, could also be described as accumulation of Siddhis and increasing capacity to serve.
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2015 : 09:34:22 AM
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Hi Omstat,
I would describe it more like. As we progress we are sweeping off the dirt from the things we already knew.
When you open your heart chakra you can think of others and feel energy. Next is the 3rd eye and people can see or know. The crown is access to the divine. The fun really starts there but you can see the progression already. That's all it is really.
I really believe that finding ways to help others is the key to joy radiating from the heart.
Much love my friend,
Tom |
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - Nov 24 2015 : 10:15:39 AM
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Thanks, Tom
Beautiful unfoldings as petals open and blossom at all stages and all paths or path descriptions.
quote:
I really believe that finding ways to help others is the key to joy radiating from the heart.
I agree and it comes through in your posts 
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2015 : 03:13:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jonesboy
Hi Omstat,
I would describe it more like. As we progress we are sweeping off the dirt from the things we already knew.
When you open your heart chakra you can think of others and feel energy. Next is the 3rd eye and people can see or know. The crown is access to the divine. The fun really starts there but you can see the progression already. That's all it is really.
I really believe that finding ways to help others is the key to joy radiating from the heart.
Much love my friend,
Tom
Let us not forget the root chakra - people have a tendency to talk about the higher chakras only as if one can attain without dealing with the murky lower chakras. That's where the bulk of our issues are stored - that's where the little red devils with horns come popping up to dance on the grave of our dreams
Sey |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2015 : 09:02:57 AM
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quote:
Let us not forget the root chakra - people have a tendency to talk about the higher chakras only as if one can attain without dealing with the murky lower chakras. That's where the bulk of our issues are stored - that's where the little red devils with horns come popping up to dance on the grave of our dreams
Hi Sey,
Yes this is when the fun starts. Residing in the higher chakras and looking at the "the little red devils". They pop up in multiples just when "I" think I've moved forward. |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2015 : 09:05:54 AM
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quote:
When you open your heart chakra you can think of others and feel energy. Next is the 3rd eye and people can see or know. The crown is access to the divine. The fun really starts there but you can see the progression already. That's all it is really.
I really believe that finding ways to help others is the key to joy radiating from the heart.
Much love my friend,
Tom
Very Nice experiences, Tom. |
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parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2015 : 10:19:20 AM
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Above comments inspired me to share these embarrassing experiences. My recent attempts to help have caused ongoing distress and it isn't clear why. When it appears to be me helping, it really isn't a separate me at all. Rather it's the universe responding and it's all love. But I somehow managed to make a mess of it. The first time, a man asked for a ride only a few miles away and when he offered me a $20 dollar bill, I came undone. I was actually horrified, as it seemed so obvious that it was a great honor to be of assistance. But when I explained there was no way I could possibly accept his offer, it came out all wrong  ... When I apparently helped a woman to recover her wallet, and she profusely thanked me, I murmured - it was an honor. I was so completely embarrassed afterward. What a dumb thing to say. Yeah, it was honest but later it occurred to me there was something much better to say. It's what others have told me. So many people have helped me and they weren't willing to accept compensation; therefore it's a privilege to pay it forward. Yes it is a wonderful honor to be of assistance, but it's not something that can be put into words very well. On the other hand, perhaps it's an honor to be a fool. Maybe we can all be fools for love
love
parvati |
Edited by - parvati9 on Nov 25 2015 10:28:42 AM |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2015 : 11:51:26 AM
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Hi Parvati,
Your post inspired me to share this.
This morning I teached a yoga class , it was a lesson inspired on the heart chakra.
The practice was to give and to receive, place the hands in Anjali mudra for the heart, inhale, open your arms, give......exhale bring the hands back to the heart in Anjali mudra, receive.....
I heard myself saying, sometimes you notice that one of these two is more easy for you. |
Edited by - Charliedog on Nov 25 2015 12:10:32 PM |
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parvati9
USA
587 Posts |
Posted - Nov 25 2015 : 3:29:24 PM
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Hi Charliedog
Finding ways to help others is the key to joy - this is so true for me. I often need help and have no problem with gratitude for the assistance. But when people express gratitude to me, recently it has been embarrassing. There needs to be more humility in response. In future I plan on responding with a simple "you're welcome". It's hard to express that it's an honor without it coming off as an ego-trip or feeling superior. I'm too sensitive and have shed tears over this. Seeing through it and that I'm only acting superior makes me feel sad.
love
parvati |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2015 : 01:49:53 AM
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Dear Parvati,
You are not alone. I often agonize of my lack of natural humility. I have been dropping that word as a sutra since I started Samayama but this is one which has not come back into my life. No matter what I do, there is still this tinge of spiritual superiority that creeps into my feelings. And yes, it makes me sad as well.
Sey |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Nov 26 2015 : 03:51:45 AM
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Dear Parvati,
quote:
In future I plan on responding with a simple "you're welcome". It's hard to express that it's an honor without it coming off as an ego-trip or feeling superior.
I hear you . Response in the moment and let go....
Dear Sey,
quote:
No matter what I do, there is still this tinge of spiritual superiority that creeps into my feelings. And yes, it makes me sad as well.
To be grateful for the fact that I can help helpes me, and also samyama and a samyama like prayer I use every morning. It helps me to surrender to feelings of superiority or feelings of sadness.
Just response and let the thoughts afterwards for what they are, that little  voice...
My little voice tells me often "these are not the right words to use" but, hé I don't have better this moment. I press the submit button and let go....
Edit, it became a constant practice, to recognize that voice. Learn to love myself instead of being insecure because of those terrorizing thoughts. Having said that it doesn't mean that they disappeared completely, but more and more recognized for they are, just thoughts.....
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Edited by - Charliedog on Nov 26 2015 09:45:04 AM |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2015 : 02:14:04 AM
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| I am sorry, I was out of topic again.... this is "The role of the Istha's"..... |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Nov 27 2015 : 04:10:16 AM
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Sey |
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The Role of Ishta's
