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SuperTrouper
USA
49 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 19 2015 : 12:27:38 AM
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Hi there, y'all! Long time lurker/awkward commenter, first time poster.
I'll jump in immediately to the question, and then provide the background: What are your personal experiences of the long term use of the Microcosmic Orbit pranayama vs. the AYP Spinal Breathing Pranayama?
I have a lot of experience with different systems of kriya yoga, so I know from experience all of the benefits and drawbacks to each of them. None of them are perfect, they all have their plusses and minuses.
That being said, I've liked AYP the most, because it provides a significant pace of advancement without the irritability/"hot headedness" or 'brain fire', if you will, of the traditional kriya yoga pathway into the brain.
However, the AYP SBP leaves me with a dull brain feeling like I've got a brick wall in my forehead and all of my mental energy is being sucked down into this SBP path I'm creating, leaving me with a brain drain that suddenly magnifies in intensity whenever I have any type of social contact. Colloquially, this is usually referred to as "energy vampirism", but at this point I can tell this is definitely because of the practices, and not because of the people.
I don't have this problem with the spinal route that goes into the brain via traditional kriya yoga pathways. In fact, even though I'm an introvert, I become quite extroverted, loquacious, an intellectually nimble, despite that my meditations after these practices are not very good (I can't seem to focus on the meditation object and hit it squarely with calm attention, whereas it's very easy with AYP SBP).
What I haven't tried yet, for any length of time, is the Microcosmic Orbit, and I'm wondering if, from other people's experience, this might be the happy medium between the two extremes I've experienced?
I want to keep pace with my practice and endeavors, but not at the expense of becoming a complete recluse to avoid my increasingly awkward social engagements.
Thanks! :)  |
Edited by - AYPforum on Oct 19 2015 1:16:34 PM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2015 : 01:17:19 AM
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Dear Supertrooper,
Sounds like you are overloading. What is your current practice? For how long do you do SBP? SBP is not like other Kriya Pranayama and should not be done for more than the prescribed 10 mins. No matter how long you have been doing other Yoga practices, I would recommend that you build up your AYP practices slow. Don't jump in with everything at once.
Finally I would add - Rest more at the end of your sessions.
Sey |
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SuperTrouper
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2015 : 11:13:17 AM
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5-10 min SBP / 15-20 min meditation / 10 min resting. There's no irritability. I feel phenomenal after resting. I practiced AYP for many months last year, before switching over to a couple other systems of meditation for a short while and back again, so I'm familiar with the self-pacing, and have been self pacing from the beginning when there're irritability issues. But as the day goes on and I interact with people, I'm not at all irritable. I just feel mentally dull and lack mental clarity.
Perhaps I'd just gotten used to the previous kriyas that made my mind bright, luminous, and fluid... I'm not sure. That's why I'm asking for suggestions and recommendations, particularly as it pertains others' experience with the microcosmic orbit. |
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SuperTrouper
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2015 : 1:13:55 PM
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I thought this picture below was an interesting picture. Despite the fact that it is Taoist, it also appears to show the AYP pathway, as well.
http://i.imgur.com/glFhg.png |
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AYPforum
351 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2015 : 1:16:34 PM
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| Moderator note: Topic moved for better placement |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2015 : 03:55:23 AM
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Dullness of mind is usually an indication of too much DM and too little SBP. Take SBP to a full 10 mins and DM to 15 mins and see how that works out.
Sey
P.S. as for the picture, prana is rotated this way when we add http://www.aypsite.org/129.html and
http://www.aypsite.org/275.html
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Edited by - SeySorciere on Oct 20 2015 04:03:36 AM |
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Apkallu
France
108 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2015 : 12:22:44 PM
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To reduce overloading symptoms, I use the MCO when relevant (usually after or before SPB) for only a few cycles, even in the beginning of DM for a few seconds if necessary (ie if too much energy arise once again).
You can feel the energy circulate and it almost immediately reduce the pressure in the head.
Energy follows the attention... and especially a relaxed attention for myself.
It works great.
Nevertheless, MCO is different from SPB with regard to the path of the energy.
MCO is circular while SPB is back and forth on the spine.
On the contrary, I also diminished SPB to 5 minutes with great results too (too much energy to manage with 10).
But I am just an AYP newbie 
Try and see what happens ! |
Edited by - Apkallu on Oct 20 2015 12:32:33 PM |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2015 : 7:00:12 PM
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Hi SuperTrouper,
to get a good answer, you would need someone who has practiced MCO and SBP for long times, which may be hard to find. Had practiced it for few months, both alone and in combination with other practices.
All in all it is a very nice practice that opens up both the chakras at the back and at the front, leading to very pleasant body sensations and lots of nondual perception. Because of the circular movement you don't have the prana-apana neutralization of SBP, in other words the breath mostly continues smoothly and peacefully, while SBP can lead to breathless and thoughtless states. To handle this second aspect, taoist approaches also start to work on merging the life currents in the navel area with additional practices after they are stable in their MCO path.
SBP completely skips the frontal chakras and keeps focusing on the sushumna nadi, mainly adressing the astral chakras in the spine and by this avoiding more dense etheric chakra openings at the front, which are closer to the physical. Your life experiences based on SBP will have less physical intensity, less sensual inhancement and less physical nonduality compared to a MCO practitioner, but on the other side more detachement, a clearer vision and an increasing stability in stillness as a result of the pranic-apanic neutralization and the intensification of the samana current.
Taoist traditions did require more physical strength and stability, more grounding and balance and therefore MCO is ideal for their endeavours, while the traditions out of which SBP arose, did not require these qualities so much, therefore the attention could be directed more focusedly into the sushumna nadi.
Not to forget, the kriya traditions also work on other channels besides the sushumna nadi (with the higher kriyas), but only after sufficient work has been done on sushumna, to prepare for more intense energy flows in the body-mind.
To your question, MCO will not be a middle type to your both experiences but something on its own. And by pracitcing it you will naturally be drawn to other practices that are linked to it, which will most probably lead to a complete different lifestyle and experience. But as with all things, you can only know by trying out yourself.
I had the same mental "brick wall in my forehead" back then and it was based on DM, so Sey's advice may help to smooth the situation out. Another way for balance is to look into asanas, which distributes the flow of life into all parts of the body and by this creating a new habit for the energies to flow. Other types of physical activity, especially muscle toning is also very much helpful.
Happy practice and enjoy :) |
Edited by - Holy on Oct 20 2015 7:09:33 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2015 : 7:28:12 PM
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Incidentally, just as we easily favor the mantra in Deep Meditation, so do we favor the central channel in Spinal Breathing. Therefore, if awareness is getting pulled to the front channels, that is fine. Spinal Breathing does not exclude any meridians...it simply favors one over all the others.
I'm not currently practicing Spinal Breathing on a regular basis due to self-pacing reasons. It's a powerful practice. However, when I was practicing daily, I would sometimes get pulled to the front channels, and the less I resisted, the better.
Best wishes, and above all, use self-pacing and look for the best results in simple circumstances throughout your daily life.  |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2015 : 12:38:18 AM
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Yes, asanas.
Mahamudra does the trick, that's what helped me - if you are familiar with that, a couple of rounds before SBP and a final round before rest. Note that with that you are now moving away from strictly AYP. And it is not a good idea to mix and match practices when you have just started on a new path. Best to stick to solutions offered within that path first.
Good luck
Sey 
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SuperTrouper
USA
49 Posts |
Posted - Oct 27 2015 : 10:32:30 PM
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Thanks everyone.
Holy, your posts rang true. I decided to venture ahead with it. If AYP is truly an open system, and no one has the experience to provide a thorough comparison, then I find no real opposition to experimenting on myself. I've remained with the AYP format, just substituting MCO for SBP for the time being.
My experiences after a little over a week are thus far:
- The path was initially mildly difficult to establish outside of the lines not drawn by ayp/other kriya yoga practices. (primarily the front channels)
- My brick forehead sensation immediately evaporated.
- My DM meditations have been even smoother and easier to establish and deepen than with SBP. SBP produced fluctuations that made it occasionally difficult to focus with ease. But not nearly as many fluctuations as traditional kriya pathways caused.
- A greater sense of wholesomeness, well-being, and gentle happiness seems to be cultivated by touching and scrubbing the front channel with energy equally as much as the back.
- The practice is, at this time, just as intense as SBP. However, the feedback regarding the intensity, i.e. the culmination of irritation towards the end of a SBP practice that is about to be overloaded, does not seem to exist, and so timing is literally of the essence. I don't experience irritation during daily life the way SBP brings on, but intense crown sensations create an impossible pull towards introversion and s strong desire to withdraw from sensory stimulation inwardly.
I'm going to continue experimenting with it until I can reach a firm conclusion about whether this approach's benefits and drawbacks are ultimately more favorable or not than SBP. But I'm definitely going to scale down my practice a bit to deal with the effects. I may also experiment with the modified version of MCO that goes up to the center-head point below the brain and down the front, forgoing the brain to see if that is better, worse, or the same. |
Edited by - SuperTrouper on Oct 28 2015 01:29:06 AM |
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Spinal Breathing Pranayama vs. Microcosmic Orbit
