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Atlantiseeker
USA
9 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 16 2015 : 4:04:41 PM
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Hello,
I thought the following information was interesting, but it seems to contradict Yogani, who says to ignore the scenery. Nimis advocates trying to hear the astral sounds. I thought maybe Nimis's advice is good to follow before one's first experience of the inner sounds, after which one should follow Yogani's directions about scenery...? Or should we try to hear these sounds during spinal breathing but not during meditation? Thoughts?
In Section 2 of his book, Ennio Nimis describes a form of spinal breathing in which one mentally chants Om in each of the chakras. He writes the following:
"Now let me introduce a very subtle detail. Your attention should be also focused
on the astral sounds that come from the Chakras rather than on the sound of the
breath. These sounds are not physical sounds; they have nothing to do with the
sound produced by the air in the throat. They appear in different forms
(bumblebee, flute, harp, drum, hum like an electrical transformer, bell....) and
capture a kriyaban's awareness leading it to greater depths without any danger of
getting lost. Each chanting of the syllable Om should be accompanied by an unswerving will to track down the echo of this vibration until you become aware
of the astral sounds. You need a continuous will to listen internally. Your
listening skills will improve and you will become more sensitive.
A very important fact to understand is that the event of perceiving those
sounds is not produced by the intensity of a unique moment of deep concentration but by the accumulation of effort manifested during daily sessions of Kriya
(effort is the meticulous attention to any internal sound, no matter how
faint).
Those who are not able to hear any internal sound should not conclude something is wrong. Maybe they have done an enormous effort whose fruits will be enjoyed during the next day's practice or some day in the future. A sign one is heading in the right direction is a sense of mild pressure, like a sensation of liquid peace above or around the head often accompanied by a certain humming in the entire occipital region.
If you perceive it, it serves no purpose wondering if this is the real Om
because it is probably just a signal that the real experience is approaching. Just
intensify your awareness of that region, especially its right part. Patience and constancy are of prime importance. One day, you will awaken to the realization
that you are actually hearing a sound of "running water". Lahiri Mahasaya described it as a sound "produced by a lot of people continually striking the disk of a bell and as continuous as oil flowing out of a container". Surely, when you hear the sound of running waters or of waves breaking over cliffs, you can be
sure you are on the right track.
A great experience is hearing a distant sound of a long-sustaining bell.
When this happens there is no more distinction between Pranayama and the
deepest meditation state."
Thanks!
Namaste.
Atlantiseeker |
Edited by - Atlantiseeker on Oct 17 2015 10:26:22 AM |
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BillinL.A.
USA
375 Posts |
Posted - Oct 16 2015 : 5:44:45 PM
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| The Consciousness that appreciates the astral sounds as scenery is Spirit...or at least real close to it. |
Edited by - BillinL.A. on Oct 16 2015 5:46:07 PM |
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Mykal K
Germany
267 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2015 : 02:58:53 AM
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What you talk about is practice of spinal breathing, where you develop your ability to experience the spinal nerve (chakras), and trying to hear the spinal nerve is also good. That is the way I understood yogani's instructions at least. He said to try to develop sensitivity by bringing attention, and did not specify visual vs. auditory, in my opinion, so that everyone would do by their own preference.
In Ayp, mantra practice is separated from practice of spinal breathing. Yogani says that we do that to amplify effects, and I think he is right, but cannot testify as I have no experience of both.
Hope this helps. |
Edited by - Mykal K on Oct 17 2015 03:00:23 AM |
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Atlantiseeker
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Oct 17 2015 : 10:27:29 AM
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Thanks Mykal. I modified my original post a bit based on your comment.
quote:
Originally posted by Mykal K
What you talk about is practice of spinal breathing, where you develop your ability to experience the spinal nerve (chakras), and trying to hear the spinal nerve is also good. That is the way I understood yogani's instructions at least. He said to try to develop sensitivity by bringing attention, and did not specify visual vs. auditory, in my opinion, so that everyone would do by their own preference.
In Ayp, mantra practice is separated from practice of spinal breathing. Yogani says that we do that to amplify effects, and I think he is right, but cannot testify as I have no experience of both.
Hope this helps.
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Robananda
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2015 : 08:59:43 AM
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Hi Atlantiseeker !
The audible sound current, if it is audible to one  it is definitely not scenery. The comments (in other threads) about fears of tinnitus leave me baffled...
I've read here that it is not used as the object of meditation as it is not there for all, nor is it always there for those that can/do perceive it. So they use a mantra instead.
One interesting question might be, if one is doing a mantra and they hear the current, should they ignore the sound current and return to the mantra ?
Thanks for your posts !!!!
Namaste   |
Edited by - Robananda on Oct 18 2015 09:51:53 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2015 : 09:51:41 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Robananda
One interesting question might be, if one is doing a mantra and they hear the current, should they ignore the current and return to the mantra.
Yes, the AYP stance on this is very clear - easily go back to the mantra every time you realise you are off it. We don't go off following inner sounds, we treat them as any other thoughts/sensations etc. coming up in meditation. |
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Robananda
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2015 : 10:01:15 AM
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Thanks Blue RC, I knew the stance here before posing the question  in truth, the sound current is neither a thought nor a sensation (ie mental scenery) . But as it is not perceivable by many it may not be good for a mainstream system. Plenty of traditions (Sant Mat, Radhosaomi, etc) use the sound current as the object of meditation. In fact, the Light perceived at Ajna ( and the Star) that are goals of meditation, not distractions to, is the equivalent type of perception as the divine sound current, it is the result of deep meditation, and the pathway to the Omkar dimension.
thanks to Atlantis for his post !
Go Deep or Go Home 
Namaste All
Robananda |
Edited by - Robananda on Oct 18 2015 10:11:18 AM |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2015 : 10:20:06 AM
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| The thing about inner sounds is that it's not possible to predict their effect. I have been hearing various sounds myself - different pitches - they feel different, resonate in different places and I am sure they have different effects. While the I AM mantra and its enhancements have been tested and the results can be predicted with better accuracy than random sounds. |
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Robananda
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2015 : 10:31:39 AM
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Ohh ok. I'd love to see some test results showing predictive accuracy such as you maintain. You are very dismissive of this other highly respected field of meditation. Your words "random sounds" make this clear. This is the Other Systems and Alternate Approaches section btw. Please be more respectful.
Robananda |
Edited by - Robananda on Oct 18 2015 12:46:37 PM |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Oct 18 2015 : 1:33:17 PM
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The information is simply from a different tradition and in this tradition there are many schools that teach many different things. In one such school it is called divine sound and is the replacement for Mantra, until later in the curriculum.
There are many ways to get to the same destination so take your pick which one is best for you, that is the best one and there is no best one for everyone.
In the higher teachings of these schools mantra is learned but it is not as simple as all that, part of it is learning to hear the various seed sounds not just mentally repeat them.
As Blue has stated the AYP stance is clear easily favoring and returning to the mantra. If you are practicing Deep Meditation and you instead focus on the inner sounds then you are most certainly not practicing deep meditation.
In this case inner sounds are SCENERY.
If you are practicing Deep Meditation and you hear inner sounds and they take your attention but you easily favor and return to the mantra then you are practicing Deep meditation and the inner sounds are still SCENERY.
If you are Practicing Kriya and you hear the inner sounds and are practicing the specific technique for this then the inner sounds are not scenery. In this case they are the object of meditation.
Even in Kriya you will reach a state where the inner sounds cannot follow.
The results of this Nadi Yoga which are a part of Laya Yoga however are not unpredictable. They can also be perceived each and every time you sit.
This is a very subtle form of yoga the beginning frequencies are easy to hear for many but the sound behind the sound ah now that takes a bit of doing.
As far as it always being there every time you sit it depends on two things mostly.
#1. It depends on the individual, some people do have tinnitus. Some also have a natural affinity for astral hearing.
#2. What you are practicing, if you practice the authentic sadhana of Paramahamsa Hariharananda and not some stuff from a book or the internet then it will always be there.
Spinal breathing can bring this as well but not as reliably.
If you want to learn in this manner you have to learn from people who teach this practice in person.
If you want to practice AYP then this site and the PLUS site can help you learn as you have dedicated 1 on 1 guidance from Yogani and others is available on the plus site and quite a bit of free help is here on the free site also. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2015 : 02:15:34 AM
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What I have discovered with inner sounds, sometimes they are not divine sounds at all but simply higher harmonics of some drone of motor such as the fridge or electrical appliances, electricity itself which you now have the ability to hear - and that is the constant gong /bell sound. In my area, I am always surrounded by the roar of the ocean, the chatter of the river, crickets, bumble bees.. it becomes very hard to distinguish what is real and what are inner sounds. The heart chimes are the ones I am absolutely sure of and a choir. But these happen rarely. I have never heard anyone mention the Choir - any one out there hears the choir? Even that I have to be careful with - there is a church within hearing distance and I can label it as Inner sound in the dead of the night, when I know, there is no service going on.
We have to be careful with what Yogani means by SCENERY. It does not mean that inner light, inner sounds, and vibrations are irrelevant - they are indications that good things are happening, but they are effects, not cause. So we should not go chasing them as experiences and neglect the practice itself.
Sey
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2015 : 07:46:12 AM
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Sey- Lol about the appliances. It's so true. I have not heard the choir but a Hindu priest chanting in the early hours of the morning. My neighbors are not Hindu priest for sure. |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2015 : 2:52:45 PM
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If the inner sounds are true inner sounds it will be entirely known and there will be no doubt as to if it is an actual inner sound or something in the environment.
In other traditions / systems where Inner sounds are used and are a part of ones daily practice there is a huge difference than drive by observation.
The huge difference is that the inner sound becomes so intense one becomes so melded with the inner sound that Pratyahara is so complete if someone knocks on a door you will not hear it.
Your entire existence at this stage is pure Sat Chit Ananda.
Another side effect of this form of Laya yoga is that the moment there is a difference in ambient sound during the day you will pick up on the inner sounds again sometimes quite surprisingly so.
Yet another side effect is that you will find yourself listening to divine sound while you are sleeping usually accompanied by a brilliant yellow white glow you discover yourself looking deeply into almost as if sun bathing your face all of this while asleep and it can wake you up.
Now if as I have in the past switch purely to AYP practices or another practice other than the daily practice which uses divine sound then this subsides and is not noticed during the day.
Many paths same destination.
quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
What I have discovered with inner sounds, sometimes they are not divine sounds at all but simply higher harmonics of some drone of motor such as the fridge or electrical appliances, electricity itself which you now have the ability to hear - and that is the constant gong /bell sound. In my area, I am always surrounded by the roar of the ocean, the chatter of the river, crickets, bumble bees.. it becomes very hard to distinguish what is real and what are inner sounds. The heart chimes are the ones I am absolutely sure of and a choir. But these happen rarely. I have never heard anyone mention the Choir - any one out there hears the choir? Even that I have to be careful with - there is a church within hearing distance and I can label it as Inner sound in the dead of the night, when I know, there is no service going on.
We have to be careful with what Yogani means by SCENERY. It does not mean that inner light, inner sounds, and vibrations are irrelevant - they are indications that good things are happening, but they are effects, not cause. So we should not go chasing them as experiences and neglect the practice itself.
Sey
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BeezBuzz
Australia
39 Posts |
Posted - Oct 19 2015 : 10:49:52 PM
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"They are not the cause, they're the effect."
To what So-Hi said, I'd just add that the mantra and inner sound are essentially the same. That is the Sanskrit syllables of the mantra are derived from the inner sounds. They both lead in. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2015 : 03:38:07 AM
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I look forward to more enhanced experiences of Inner sounds. Sounds wonderful.
Sey  |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2015 : 12:55:40 PM
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I would not describe them as wonderful or something to look forward to especially with a person that practices AYP as they are strictly scenery or indicators along the way that something good is happening within this system, and rightly so.
If you change your method of Sadhana to one that makes use of the scenery then and only then are they useful.
AYP comes at sadhana from the inside out and the side effects are encountered and viewed as effects of purification rather than causes. This is not wrong.
Other traditions view the effects as effective means of going inwards like following a trail of bread crumbs to the source deep within.
With the correct method of Sadhana that uses the inner sounds to go inward you do not even have to try for the inner sounds they just happen and when they do you listen for the sound behind the sound by easily favoring the sound while performing the specific sadhana method.
Here I will give an example that is not something I have to keep private by oath. This example however does omit the practices that engender being able to naturally and easily hear inner or divine sound, those I can not divulge, they should really be learned in person.
If you are sitting lets say after whatever your practice may be and you form sambhavi mudra and are capable of full Kechari then Sambhavi Mudra alone will be enough to draw the tongue up but if not that is okay also.
While you are gazing at the light that is present in the forehead just listen for the vibration it makes. If you do not see any light in the forehead then just place your ability to feel there and listen, If you feel one of the centers vibrate, pulsate or energize simply listen for the vibration. In time you can learn to follow the pulsation to is source as well as the light and the sound. At first this sounds like watching over 3 pots boiling but it is really quite easy. You just easily favor all 3 at once.
When you hear the vibration just listen to it and trace it back to its source with your ability to hear then listen for the sound behind the sound before long you will realize that you are becoming one with the divine vibration, afterwards you may realize things were quite noisy in the street outside yet you heard none of it.
If you remain an AYP practitioner it would be far better to easily favor the practice or the Mantra and leave the inner sounds to be, just be whatever they are.
The differences in systems are as can be seen 180 degrees apart. The destination however remains the same.
quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
I look forward to more enhanced experiences of Inner sounds. Sounds wonderful.
Sey
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Oct 20 2015 : 7:20:21 PM
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Hi all,
as So-Hi says, the inner sounds cannot be missed or misidentified. Just close your ears with your fingers and you should be able to hear them either instantly, after some seconds or minutes.
Also as So-Hi has pointed out, depending on the path, these sounds are either objects of attention or scenery. No contradiction in that. If you want to use a rope to bridge a canyon and are in the midst of crossing it and suddenly see a helocpter flying nearby making an intense sound, it would be better to continue using the rope until you have reached the other side. But right from the beginning if you want to fly over with the helicopter, then there is no need to utilize a rope anymore. Both will do the work, although both are of a different type. Both methods are part of maya, the rope and the helicopter and both can bring you to the safe shore of stillness. The important thing is to keep continuing and not jumping from the helicopter to the rope and back to the helicopter in the same attempt (session) :P
Happy practice and enjoy :)
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Oct 21 2015 : 12:13:57 AM
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Sey |
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Before you first experience auditory 'scenery'...
