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amiami
3 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 04 2006 : 4:16:20 PM
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Hello everyone.
Thought I’d share my thought and dilemmas with you guys and get a discussion going...
So I started practicing AYP in June 2005 and have carried on quite nicely, twice a day. However there are issues I feel make my cultivation with AYP difficult. They are primarily 1)no direct instructions, 2)no fellow students (in personal human contact) whom I can learn from and increase my bhakti with, 3)a feeling like I’m a bit stuck and 4)if I’m honest, following a school that hasn’t been time tested/proved to be effective. By that I don't mean the practices themselves but rather how one follows the instructions without direct teaching and feedback, and how the practices are ordered and arranged.
I’ve been researching Kundalini and awakening and it seems like Satyananda’s Bihar School is one of the most respected in this. I’m not 100% that they do deep meditation but they seem to know what they’re doing and are quite respected (and scientifically researched by Hiroshi Motoyama).
I thought of following the instructions in the following two books and start attending their classes
'A Systematic Course in the Ancient Tantric Techniques of Yoga and Kriya' and 'Kundalini Tantra'
What do you think? Am I crazy to even consider moving away from AYP?
Andy
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2006 : 4:58:23 PM
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I'd invite others who know about Satyananda's school to chime in, because I don't.
They are primarily 1)no direct instructions, 2)no fellow students (in personal human contact) whom I can learn from and increase my bhakti with, 3)a feeling like I’m a bit stuck and 4)if I’m honest, following a school that hasn’t been time tested/proved to be effective.
Yes, these things are real. This is a loosely-knit band operating over the internet, and it has its advantages and disadvantages.
A few comments though:
1)no direct instructions,
Do you mean direct personal instructions? In nearly all 'big guru' situations, you won't get direct instructions from the guru. Numbers make this true of necessity. In other smaller schools, you may fare better in this regard, and/or their may be good other instructors in the school. Again, I can't comment on Bihar school of yoga.
2)no fellow students (in personal human contact) whom I can learn from and increase my bhakti with,
Yes. Direct contact has advantages. For some, of course, that could have elements of a distraction. But it's true, you don't have this with AYP -- yet anyway. There is no reason not to try seeing what other schools can offer you. Just watch out for culty stuff!! 
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Oct 04 2006 4:59:01 PM |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2006 : 5:04:41 PM
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Hi Andy,
Are you crazy? No I don't believe so but if you are doubting your practices you either need to move on or get some answers.It all depends on what you are looking for.If you are an inquisitive type and need scientific proof like some of the sceptics, then I don't believe going with a 'traditional' school will suit you any better if as much.Simply because 'traditional' schools don't encourage questions because the object of meditation is to silence the idle chatter. By asking questions you simply raise more chatter as your mind works overtime. Incidentally I don't recall you asking questions on here before so maybe you should ask away.I do know that as busy as Yogani is he will always answer personal email(within reason I'm sure).LOL.
You say you have been researching Kundalini and awakening. To what aim? If you are looking for awakening then the simplest(and safest) way is by shaktipat which is something I don't believe you will get with aforementioned school.If you are looking for awakening then you need to seek out a fully realised siddha who can give you safe awakening.This is only the beginning of many years of hard daily slog to use the benefits of the shakti to progress on the path.
Not having read the books you have listed I cannot comment on their content but I can tell you it is dangerous to meddle with the shakti.If Gopi Krishna was here he would tell you the same!looking at he titles of the books I can confidently say they do not give shaktipat as it is not a part of Tantra to my knowledge.Maybe you should share your questions on here to those that follow AYP ways.Certainly I doubt if a 'traditional' guru will answer your questions although my guru is an exception.
L&L
Dave |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2006 : 5:21:00 PM
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Welcome to the forum Andy 
1)no direct instructions,
You mean like a person telling you what to do.. Well that's how it goes in a guruless system I guess. .. You can email Yogani and he is always ready to answer questions. You can ask here.. no matter how silly or how small the issue is, whether its about the technique, or the effects or what to do next.. someone will give you an answer.
2)no fellow students (in personal human contact) whom I can learn from and increase my bhakti with,
Yes, again, the human contact is missing, but most here I think like that, we talk and get on each others nerves.. then we shut down the PC and we forget about each other. But being at the forum can work on your bhakti more than you'd like at times.. he he.. we have had people who have told us they have had to self pace "the forum".
3)a feeling like I’m a bit stuck
That may be a good sign.. means you are stable in your practice, maybe you could add something to it now?
4)if I’m honest, following a school that hasn't’t been time tested/proved to be effective.
Aaahhhh!!! that is sooooo true. But look around the forum at some of the wonderful things happening to people around here who are following AYP.. maybe that should give some hint as to its effectiveness
I thought of following the instructions in the following two books and start attending their classes
'A Systematic Course in the Ancient Tantric Techniques of Yoga and Kriya' and 'Kundalini Tantra'
What do you think? Am I crazy to even consider moving away from AYP?
Absolutely not... you are not crazy.. follow the guru in you. If at this point in your path you think following the above methods will get you un-stuck and moving faster.. go ahead.. keep AYP lessons as a food for thought. Many people here don't follow AYP... just hang around because we are such wonderful people(lol!!!)..
You know what AYP has to offer.. you know where we are located.... by all means try what you you think may help.. AYP will be here.. if you ever decide to come back.. You are always welcome...
PS: A word of caution..just dont mix practices... atleast not when you are starting off. |
Edited by - Shanti on Oct 04 2006 5:37:24 PM |
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david_obsidian
USA
2602 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2006 : 5:25:56 PM
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By the way, Andy, Dave is a strong believer in Shaktiput, which is basically getting a boost from being touched by a guru. I believe it works occasionally, and very occasionally quite well, but not often enough that I would prescribe it generally. Even Dave, BTW, believes that self-realization needs work after shaktiput, and good practices. No harm in trying it if it comes your way I'd say, but I'd be cautious of those some schools that promote it as the be-all and end-all, must-have thing.
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Edited by - david_obsidian on Oct 04 2006 5:30:24 PM |
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Kyman
530 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2006 : 7:40:53 PM
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If you have the means to be in a different place, and are inclined to go that route in order to progress more, go for it.
With anything, people use various methods.
Thing is, I would be doing this whether I found AYP or not. I'm glad I didn't have to do it all alone, as here I have so many demensions to self reflect.
I was hit by a drunk driver a few years back and so get by on very little means. The best thing about this place is I get out what I put into it. |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2006 : 8:12:51 PM
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Andy, here's my take. Have faith that you'll be lead in the right direction by God. Always do what seems right...even if others tell you it's wrong. Even if a guru tells you it's wrong. How do you know they know what they're talking about anyway? Maybe no one knows what they're talking about...maybe I don't know, so don't take my word for it. It's good to figure it all out on your own.
If a guru offers you shaktipat, then it's good to take it, but don't fall for anything. Question everything if it doesn't seem right to you.
And once again, have faith that God will guide you in the right direction and take care of you. |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2006 : 10:17:52 AM
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Hi Andy:
Glad to see you chiming in for some input -- you have got plenty of good perspectives coming here.
As we have discussed in emails, if AYP helps you find your path, whatever that may be, then I am happy.
Of course, the path is in us already, and it is only a matter of finding resonance with that in the sources of spiritual knowledge and training we explore. No one body of knowledge is complete (including AYP), but inside you are, waiting to be revealed. Develop confidence in that and just keep going, and you cannot not miss.
Enjoy the journey. It is where all the fun is, in the now...
The guru is in you.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2006 : 10:54:22 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by david_obsidian
I'd invite others who know about Satyananda's school to chime in...
I'll chime in I have no advice, but here is a bit of my story.
Back in the late '90s I got involved in a yoga group that offered free classes and teacher training. I did it dutifully for a year (weekly classes and daily individual practice), then took teacher training and led classes for about a year.
I had already had a kind of spontaneous K awakening before doing yoga. My goal of doing Asanas and Pranayama was to establish a slow, steady pace of regular practice... and stay grounded, and as a teacher, to be of service to others.
Somewhere along the line, I asked about lineage. They were not big on lineage, but I kept asking. It turns out, they were actually started by yogis from the Bihar school and there was, for some reason I'm not clear on, a painful break. Anyway, I ordered the book Asana Pranayama Mudra Bandha by Satyananda and all the moves that I had learned were right there in the book.
One nice thing about having the book and a sense of lineage, is that I became less beholden to my direct teachers. Looking back, I'm glad for the freedom from my direct instructors that learning about lineage and finding a book in that linage afforded me. It was getting a bit too intense for me. I was a very dedicated student and my direct teacher started to get a bit too ambitions for my taste... talk of opening a expanded, more formal school and raising funds.
At about that time, for other reasons, I moved from that area. In the new area, I found other yoga practices more fitting for me in this particular setting. At present I am taking a class where someone else is leading in asanas. I enjoy the personal interaction...
...but the techniques aren't as "advanced" as the spinal breathing etc. taught here. |
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Chiron
Russia
397 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2006 : 04:57:53 AM
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| At what lesson are your practices currently amiami? |
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ranger
USA
45 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2006 : 2:11:33 PM
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One of the best books I've ever read about spiritual practice, that directly addresses questions such as yours, is Jack Kornfield's Path With A Heart, in which he addresses, (among a lot of other things), the confusion that can result from the multitude of practices and gurus/teachers, etc, available today.
In one of the chapters he poses an interesting question: what do you believe so strongly that even if Jesus or Buddha showed up and said you were wrong, you'd still believe it? Well, I considered this for a long time, and realized that in a quarter century of serious spiritual practice, one of the many "truths" I've heard rings true very deeply in my own gut. At a very deep level, I'm convinced of one thing, that the illusion of being a seperate self is at the root of suffering.
What to do about that is not so clear. I'm familiar with, and have an affinity for several modes of practice, and I'm not 100% certain of any of them, either the theory or practice.
Probably the "purest" spiritual practice I've heard of was by a French lay disciple in a monestary in 17th centruy France, who simply spent his whole life trying for constant awareness of his Ishta (The Practice of the Presence of God by Brother Lawrence is a thin little book that is good reading). That's probably more than enough, but I remain a restless westerner, still looking for a way to storm heaven.
So I think your questions are valid for any "spiritual seeker," on any path: how do I think this practice is going to make me enlightened and end suffering?
"All the important decisions in life are made on the basis of insufficient information." - Carl Jung |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2006 : 2:43:59 PM
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"By the way, Andy, Dave is a strong believer in Shaktipat, which is basically getting a boost from being touched by a guru. I believe it works occasionally, and very occasionally quite well, but not often enough that I would prescribe it generally. Even Dave, BTW, believes that self-realization needs work after shaktipat, and good practices. No harm in trying it if it comes your way I'd say, but I'd be cautious of those some schools that promote it as the be-all and end-all, must-have thing."
Well David, yes shaktipat is only the first day of rebirth and the shakti must be nurtured once awake or there is a possibility that it will go back to sleep.Shaktipat is an acceleration to your spiritual path and is not the be all and end all but is an enormous boost.Without daily practice it matters not what you get from others and anyone who tells you they can give you enlightenment,(never mind in a weekend like some claim)then they are conning you. If they want vast amounts of money I would also be cautious and in fact I am cautious of who I receive energies from regardless of cost.As far as it working well I think it all depends on who gives it.According to guruji there are only 3 or 4 in India who can give shaktipat safely and correctly. Sort of limits your options doesn't it?This is one of the reasons that guruji recorded the Divine Sound as it safely purifies and awakens Kundalini, but thats another story.
L&L
Dave
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amiami
3 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 12:39:16 PM
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riptiz said:
"According to guruji there are only 3 or 4 in India who can give shaktipat safely and correctly."
any idea who these guys are? |
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riptiz
United Kingdom
741 Posts |
Posted - Oct 14 2006 : 1:46:45 PM
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Hi,
Certainly guruji is one and I believe Swami Shivom Tirth is another although he has retired and passed on the lineage.http://dhyanyogi.omdasji.googlepages.com/home and
http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/~keutz...adition.html
will give you some info.
I am talking of gurus within the Kundalini maha yoga tradition (siddha yoga) and I am sure there are some kriya gurus who are capable of similar blessings.
If you are thinking of seeking for these gurus I would advise you that one needs to reach certain levels of purification before shaktipat to alleviate severe cleansing symptoms. Of course I have no idea how one can gauge the levels of purification and who is ready but I am speaking from experience from myself and others who are in the same lineage as me.
L&L
Dave |
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Problems with my AYP practice
