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Dennis
USA
83 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 18 2015 : 10:54:44 PM
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I'm very confused about Samyama. I read the AYP Samyama book and I don't understand what to think/say. Let's take the "love" sutra. I'm told not to say the word "love" nor think about a loving situation I might have been in. The book says a remembrance of love. A fuzzy feeling of love. What is that? When I felt love?
The book infers that I should think what love means to me. So that's like thinking about the definition of love in my mind? And I'm not sure about that one either.
And what about sutras not as clear such as unity or wisdom? What do I think here? And how about "inner sensuality"? I have no idea what that's supposed to mean. I'm very confused.
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2015 : 1:38:00 PM
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Hi Dennis
Samyama is acknowledgement of a sutra and releasing it into silence. This is an outwardly flowing practice, along the idea of an offering, or prayer. It is an exercise that over time opens you to the sutras in daily life. You can personalize the sutras and their meaning to you, but in the actual practice, it is an easy holding, then releasing, without letting the mind entering into it and sidetracking you.
It might be helpful outside of samyama to free associate what each sutra might mean for you. For instance, Wisdom for me means being open to wisdom presented me and any wisdom I may impart (this post as example  ) is honest and thoughtful. In samyama I hold onto this fuzzy association briefly, then offer it up.
For me unity means the marriage of energy and silence. What could it mean to you? For me inner sensuality means the process of purification. What could it mean to you? Another way is to have a wish to be "open to", as in "open to love" and "open to radiance". Soon you may witness situations in daily living where love then found you because you were open, and smile that your practice is paying dividends.
I have personalized my samyama with extra sutras to assist me in being a better father and husband. How can you make samyama yours for the long haul? Use the AYP framework and find your "fuzzy feeling" for each sutra. In the actual practice, simply hold and release, and trust over time you will be open to results.
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Dennis
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2015 : 9:28:44 PM
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BlueRainCoat - Yes, I have read all of the lessons and the Samyama book. That's what confused me.
Dogboy - What you say makes sense. But I was just reading some old forum posts and the author said they would say the actual word and nobody corrected him on that. I guess now I'll have to think about what each of these mean to me. But it's still confusing.
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2015 : 10:09:18 PM
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Hi Dennis,
Great advice from everyone. I'm assuming you have already started with Samyama. Read and take in what everyone has to say. Your practice will evolve on its own. After you have practiced for sometime, come back and re-read the posts again and sometimes everything clicks.
Samyana is releasing the point where a thought is about to rise in silence. For example, the sutra Love. Instead of saying Love, the recognition of that sutra is released in silence. Sorry if I confused you more. |
Edited by - sunyata on Sep 20 2015 07:50:27 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2015 : 01:14:49 AM
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Every thought is a vibration, with varying degrees of subtlety. Kind of like a wave on the ocean. With waves, there are different shapes and sizes, from barely a ripple, to a massive tidal wave. Same with thoughts. We have a variety of magnitudes and amplitudes.
A feeling is also a vibration. The only difference between a feeling and a thought is that a feeling is more closely tied to the body, whereas a thought is more closely tied to the mind. (Example: I thought of going to the store, then I felt excited about buying strawberries once I got there). Thoughts and feelings often mix, and that is good. That is the unity of body and mind.
With the sutras of samyama, we can consider them to be subtle thought-feelings. They affect body and mind. They have emotional and mental content. We don't "say" them out loud; we "say" them internally (into silence).
A word can be thought and felt, in the heart and mind, and then released. That is samyama. Thinking and feeling simultaneously (on the edge of stillness) and then letting go--that is the simple technique.
All that you really need to understand is that inner silence amplifies subtle thought. The more inner silence we have, the more powerful our sutras will become. Just like a car needs gasoline, samyama needs deep quietness. Heartfelt serenity is the fuel here.
Re: getting to the meaning of the words, that is not a hard thing to do. These are simple and fundamental essences we're dealing with here. They are the fabric which makes up our being. It is nothing foreign or complex. It is native. It is true. It is us.
If you want to understand samyama, you merely have to tap into your natural, childlike awareness, which is fresh, curious, and honest. The inner child is the best practitioner, because the inner child is wide open to the world, internally and externally. We can still acquire plenty of knowledge and skill, but we need to be in contact with the pure consciousness which comes before the sophisticated ornaments that we tend to decorate our interior and exterior with.
Samyama is returning to the unsophisticated source, and then allowing the source to flow abundantly in rhythm with touch-and-release. |
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2015 : 04:39:24 AM
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bodhi |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2015 : 05:54:10 AM
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Beautyful post, BT.
Word carry many layers at the same time - they are pure sound, emotion and meaning.
When you use a set of words in a law text you emphasize the layer of meaning. You use the same words in poetry and the emotional layer becomes more important. Use them in a song and the vibrationsl quality becomes evident.
But actually those layers are always there and connected.
"Man gave name to the animals in the beginning, long time ago" - I bet you know who wrote that ;-) |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2015 : 06:14:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecdyonurus
Word carry many layers at the same time - they are pure sound, emotion and meaning.
When you use a set of words in a law text you emphasize the layer of meaning. You use the same words in poetry and the emotional layer becomes more important. Use them in a song and the vibrationsl quality becomes evident.
But actually those layers are always there and connected.
Further illumination!  |
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Dennis
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2015 : 7:01:16 PM
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Thanks all. I re-read the samyama section but it's so vague. I quote from the book, "pick up the fuzziest feeling of the word Love . Don’t deliberately make a clear pronunciation, or mental images of this or that scene or situation that represent Love to you. Just have a faint remembrance of the word Love". It sounds like I should very quietly think the word "love" but do it with what love feels like without remembering a specific event. But I assume you still need to think the sutra words, but not a clear pronunciation. So it's like a mixture of the word and the feeling.
So saying the word strongly negates the feeling? Am I getting somewhere with this? Is this how it works? I do want to get it right since it seems do important a practice.
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2015 : 8:54:06 PM
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Hi Denise,
Yes, it's feeling and thinking but lightly. Just like using a feather duster to clean an expensive piece. I would say go for it. We all go through clunky phase. If this makes you feel any better, I would repeat the sutra in the beginning. Totally wrong way to do it but it evolved for me. I can't do formal Samyama anymore but everything is released Samyama style everyday. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Sep 20 2015 : 10:05:47 PM
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A mixture of word and feeling, I like that, yes think of the sutras as such. Like Sunyata says, go for it, no worries about feeling clunky with practice. I was real clunky with yoni mudra, squashing the eyes and holding breath, until the one time I saw. Samyama is priming me to share what meditation has awakened in me. Your practice will fall into line soon enough and those sutras will resonate, I promise. You know when you are on the right track when you ask "Who/What am I?" and you begin getting a response, every frigging time.  |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2015 : 12:21:53 AM
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You might want to back off samyama completely until you have cultivated enough inner silence to discern the simple instructions, which are very intuitive and not vague at all. It's OK to self-pace; in fact, it's necessary. Believe me, I've had to back off certain practices in the past couple years. It all starts to make sense through the lens of gradual progress.
Take it easy. |
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BlueRaincoat
United Kingdom
1734 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2015 : 05:09:21 AM
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I'm with Bodhi Tree on this one - if the instructions don't make that much sense to you at the moment, it may well be that it's too early for you to take up Samyama. I'd focus on growing your inner silence with DM for a while yet.
Practise wisely and enjoy  |
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Apkallu
France
108 Posts |
Posted - Sep 21 2015 : 11:51:01 AM
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I do "think" the word but in the more subtle way I can.
Like a very light mental whisper
I have been doing this for 6 months and, still, it is really moving things I can assure you.
Thus, I realize I was also not doing it properly  but this is a long road my friend !
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2015 : 09:40:39 AM
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Hi Dennis,
If you have a strong desire to start samyama, I say go for it. It has really stabilized my practice and improved my daily life. It started out with a thought(sometimes not that subtle), but changes over time. Let it go however the sutra wants to go and don't worry about it or try to control it. It could be a thought, sound of a thought, prethought, long drawn out word, feeling, whatever! |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2015 : 10:51:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
Every thought is a vibration, with varying degrees of subtlety. Kind of like a wave on the ocean. With waves, there are different shapes and sizes, from barely a ripple, to a massive tidal wave. Same with thoughts. We have a variety of magnitudes and amplitudes.
A feeling is also a vibration. The only difference between a feeling and a thought is that a feeling is more closely tied to the body, whereas a thought is more closely tied to the mind. (Example: I thought of going to the store, then I felt excited about buying strawberries once I got there). Thoughts and feelings often mix, and that is good. That is the unity of body
With the sutras of samyama, we can consider them to be subtle thought-feelings. They affect body and mind. They have emotional and mental content. We don't "say" them out loud; we "say" them internally (into silence).
A word can be thought and felt, in the heart and mind, and then released. That is samyama. Thinking and feeling simultaneously (on the edge of stillness) and then letting go--that is the simple technique.
All that you really need to understand is that inner silence amplifies subtle thought. The more inner silence we have, the more powerful our sutras will become. Just like a car needs gasoline, samyama needs deep quietness. Heartfelt serenity is the fuel here.
Re: getting to the meaning of the words, that is not a hard thing to do. These are simple and fundamental essences we're dealing with here. They are the fabric which makes up our being. It is nothing foreign or complex. It is native. It is true. It is us.
If you want to understand samyama, you merely have to tap into your natural, childlike awareness, which is fresh, curious, and honest. The inner child is the best practitioner, because the inner child is wide open to the world, internally and externally. We can still acquire plenty of knowledge and skill, but we need to be in contact with the pure consciousness which comes before the sophisticated ornaments that we tend to decorate our interior and exterior with.
Samyama is returning to the unsophisticated source, and then allowing the source to flow abundantly in rhythm with touch-and-release.
Really nice for a longterm practitioner. My opinion, confusing for someone just starting out. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2015 : 12:20:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
My opinion, confusing for someone just starting out.
Hence my suggestion to back off until there is more inner silence. Samyama is not for those just starting out. Samyama is for those who have some months and years of meditation under their belt. If he's getting confused and befuddled by Yogani's simple instructions, that is probably indicative of a premature jump into an advanced practice. His bhakti is strong, which is great, but we have to balance our desire with what we can handle, yes? |
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yogani
USA
5241 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2015 : 12:32:54 PM
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Hi Dennis:
Sorry for chiming in late here. Good responses all the way around. Touching the faint feeling of the sutra (word) is the smallest part of samyama. It is the release in stillness that comprises 95% of it. So it is touch and release, and that's it. No need to contemplate definitions, etc. It is already in us. Just touch and release for about 15 seconds, and then again. That's all there is to it. Very easy.
If it seems clunky, that is normal in the beginning. As several have pointed out, it becomes more settled over time of daily practice -- more in stillness. The longer we have been meditating daily, the easier it will be, because we will have more abiding inner silence -- witness quality. That is where samyama happens. Having some abiding inner silence is the prerequisite for samyama.
Samyama is barely a doing. It is mostly a non-doing, which cultivates stillness in action. So relax and enjoy!
The guru is in you.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2015 : 12:36:19 PM
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| Also, there's nothing wrong with getting confused and seeking clarification on these practices. I've been in that boat and I'm still learning. But if we're banging our head against the wall, there comes a time when we just need to leave it alone and re-approach the topic when stillness is moving us in that direction. |
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Dennis
USA
83 Posts |
Posted - Sep 22 2015 : 8:11:12 PM
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Thank you all.
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2015 : 10:09:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
My opinion, confusing for someone just starting out.
Hence my suggestion to back off until there is more inner silence. Samyama is not for those just starting out. Samyama is for those who have some months and years of meditation under their belt. If he's getting confused and befuddled by Yogani's simple instructions, that is probably indicative of a premature jump into an advanced practice. His bhakti is strong, which is great, but we have to balance our desire with what we can handle, yes?
What I meant was starting out with samyama. There are 9 sutras to learn, and let's face it. It's probably going to be clunky.
I thought the instructions were confusing like the OP. I just did it anyway as best as I could. I had energy ahead of silence, so a subtle thought-feeling wasn't possible. Even with that, it has smoothed me out. It's a wonderful practice. I'm so glad I added it. It's life changing.
I get what you were saying with your post now, after I don't even remember how many months practicing, but I'm not sure I would have beginning samyama.
I just hate to see someone discouraged from practicing something that I feel is so wonderful. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Sep 23 2015 : 11:22:29 AM
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| I think it's all coming full circle here. The inner guru is guiding us all. |
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Confused about Samyama
