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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
 Posted - May 29 2015 : 2:53:20 PM
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quote:
Well that's all very good, but it sounds like hocus pocus
Aren't you theorising and reasoning right this moment ? Arent you using words derived from intellectual capacity ? Aren't you processing the words in some way ? Or are you telling me I'm speaking to a mindless heart ?
It may sound "hocus pocus" to you but it's a reality for me. I'm only sharing the knowing that has been graced, it's not intellectual. I am using words because it is required in this instance. It's not coming from the mind but from the same knowing that makes the planets revolve perfectly, our organs function to the very moment that's happening.
Yes, you are speaking to a person  . This body mind now recognizes it's this body mind and then more. I do use my mind when it's required- for my job, paying my bills and every instance the mind is "required". And, yes I have a personality as well- there is only less of "me". I've gone through a phase where I was more in the head. Living in the body is such a different experience , so much easier. The mind does come in, but it's recognized for what it is.
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This is where mysticism gets you. You just 'feel' it's true. I say test, test, test yes, yes, yes.
Yes, it's got me pretty good  . |
Edited by - sunyata on May 29 2015 4:53:50 PM |
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2015 : 5:00:52 PM
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| abra cadabra |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 29 2015 : 5:15:27 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sunyata
I'm only sharing the knowing that has been graced, it's not intellectual. I am using words because it is required in this instance. It's not coming from the mind but from the same knowing that makes the planets revolve perfectly, our organs function to the very moment that's happening.
Niiiice.  |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2015 : 07:26:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sunyata
quote:
Well that's all very good, but it sounds like hocus pocus
Aren't you theorising and reasoning right this moment ? Arent you using words derived from intellectual capacity ? Aren't you processing the words in some way ? Or are you telling me I'm speaking to a mindless heart ?
It may sound "hocus pocus" to you but it's a reality for me. I'm only sharing the knowing that has been graced, it's not intellectual. I am using words because it is required in this instance. It's not coming from the mind but from the same knowing that makes the planets revolve perfectly, our organs function to the very moment that's happening.
Yes, you are speaking to a person . This body mind now recognizes it's this body mind and then more. I do use my mind when it's required- for my job, paying my bills and every instance the mind is "required". And, yes I have a personality as well- there is only less of "me". I've gone through a phase where I was more in the head. Living in the body is such a different experience, so much easier. The mind does come in, but it's recognized for what it is.
quote:
This is where mysticism gets you. You just 'feel' it's true. I say test, test, test yes, yes, yes.
Yes, it's got me pretty good .
Even more hocus pocus.
You are now saying you can decide to switch your mind off and operate independent of it sheesh, that would be worth seeing. I'd pay money for that spectacle.
You are equating 'knowing' with physical aspects of the universe. The planets obey gravitation, mass, velocity and are material. The equivalent syllogism would be:
Man is mortal
Planets are mortal
Therefore man is a planet.
That you live in your body is no surprise. I don't think there are many who could disagree with that premise. Yet your mind is where every sense and emotion is processed. You are saying in effect, that you have no mind at all when you choose not to have one, but choice itself requires the mind. You also have to choose to re-engage your mind. So mind is present in both of your perceived states.
By the way, I understand exactly where you are. I'm just giving you a gentle poke whilst you sleep and dream. I know it probably doesn't help too much, but I'm just minded to try a bit. I'm like a new Gardner who should probably leave well alone and let the blooms come when they will and the fruit ripen as it does. I have total confidence that this is what will happen, but I want to turn the fruit and encourage the buds in my own little way even if they don't really need it. I'm tending the garden with loving care
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2015 : 08:26:18 AM
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quote:
You are now saying you can decide to switch your mind off and operate independent of it sheesh, that would be worth seeing. I'd pay money for that spectacle.
I'm not saying I can switch off the mind. It just has lost it's hold on me. The times it does- bringing awareness to it dissolves it. And, the times where I get totally caught up (which are not many)-I'm aware right after. You are right- I cannot prove anything, I can just be.
quote:
You are saying in effect, that you have no mind at all when you choose not to have one, but choice itself requires the mind. You also have to choose to re-engage your mind. So mind is present in both of your perceived states.
Nowadays, it's like everything happens through me.
quote:
By the way, I understand exactly where you are. I'm just giving you a gentle poke whilst you sleep and dream. I know it probably doesn't help too much, but I'm just minded to try a bit. I'm like a new Gardner who should probably leave well alone and let the blooms come when they will and the fruit ripen as it does. I have total confidence that this is what will happen, but I want to turn the fruit and encourage the buds in my own little way even if they don't really need it. I'm tending the garden with loving care
Thank You for your good intentions.
It was nice interacting with you .
P.S.- I'm not claiming anything and only sharing where I am in this journey. I'm going through normal ups and downs in life but it doesn't have a grasp on me anymore as of right now. |
Edited by - sunyata on May 30 2015 08:27:11 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2015 : 08:31:03 AM
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It's difficult to gauge how "awake" we are at any given moment. If one thinks or concludes: I am fully awake, or I am enlightened, of I have defeated the ego--then we know that this is an illusion of attainment. However, if one observes: I am feeling serene and blissful, as if some graceful presence is with me, that is different. That is a confirmation of unity, which is what Sunyata seems to be relaying.
Also, in some sense, each man is indeed a planet. Each person is a microcosm of the entire universe: a hologram. This is not intellectual speculation on my part; it is from direct experience that I know this to be true. Miraculously, each part contains the whole. |
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BillinL.A.
USA
375 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2015 : 08:38:10 AM
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Thanks Sunyata.
The very best part of this forum for me are the affirmations of human transformation like you've just shared. |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2015 : 11:41:43 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by sunyata
[quote]
Nowadays, it's like everything happens through me.
P.S.- I'm not claiming anything and only sharing where I am in this journey. I'm going through normal ups and downs in life but it doesn't have a grasp on me anymore as of right now.
Stillness in action, |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2015 : 2:09:02 PM
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quote:
It's difficult to gauge how "awake" we are at any given moment. If one thinks or concludes: I am fully awake, or I am enlightened, of I have defeated the ego--then we know that this is an illusion of attainment. However, if one observes: I am feeling serene and blissful, as if some graceful presence is with me, that is different. That is a confirmation of unity, which is what Sunyata seems to be relaying.
Also, in some sense, each man is indeed a planet. Each person is a microcosm of the entire universe: a hologram. This is not intellectual speculation on my part; it is from direct experience that I know this to be true. Miraculously, each part contains the whole.
Bodhi- The eloquent writing flowing through you is divine. Yogani in making
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Thanks Sunyata.
The very best part of this forum for me are the affirmations of human transformation like you've just shared.
Charliedog |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2015 : 4:36:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sunyata
[quote]
I'm not saying I can switch off the mind. It just has lost it's hold on me. The times it does- bringing awareness to it dissolves it. And, the times where I get totally caught up (which are not many)-I'm aware right after. You are right- I cannot prove anything, I can just be.
I cannot stay out of the garden 
Your mind IS you. If I paraphrase 'there are times when I'm caught up in thoughts without knowing I am caught up in them'. That is entirely consistent and clear. Once you have realised that you are caught up in the thoughts then you can begin to dismiss or investigate the causes.
Nowadays, it's like everything happens through me.
Again if I might be permitted to add. It 'feels' like everything happens through me and of course it does feel like that because indeed everything does happen through you. Again the is also consistent as you can't yet divine that this is indeed the case. You have not yet developed the tools which will confirm it beyond a doubt. You cannot develop those tools until the time is right for them to make an entrance.
It was nice interacting with you .
And you too. As long as I'm welcome to accompany you on your journey then I will tag along like a little boat pulled along a river bank
P.S.- I'm not claiming anything and only sharing where I am in this journey. I'm going through normal ups and downs in life but it doesn't have a grasp on me anymore as of right now.
How could it ever be otherwise [3]
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Edited by - karl on May 30 2015 4:38:13 PM |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2015 : 4:57:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
It's difficult to gauge how "awake" we are at any given moment. If one thinks or concludes: I am fully awake, or I am enlightened, of I have defeated the ego--then we know that this is an illusion of attainment. However, if one observes: I am feeling serene and blissful, as if some graceful presence is with me, that is different. That is a confirmation of unity, which is what Sunyata seems to be relaying.
Also, in some sense, each man is indeed a planet. Each person is a microcosm of the entire universe: a hologram. This is not intellectual speculation on my part; it is from direct experience that I know this to be true. Miraculously, each part contains the whole.
What if you could though what if you could know beyond any doubt that you were fully awake ?
What happens if it isn't necessary to defeat the ego. That it is found to be an inseparable and unique part of what you are and lives in avid cooperation ?
What happens if you can know for certain that no 'attainment' or goal is either necessary or possible. That development is simply growth, for however long the body exists in a healthy state ?
If one is 'feeling' serene and blissful then one is using a purely emotional approach to rational thinking. There is no error at all in feeling things and conceptualising those things which are genuine emotions. The difficulty comes when one begins to 'feel' what should be rationally interpreted and tested for truth. Emotion then becomes the judge and emotion really isn't too good at that.
We are in unity at all times, the difficulty is becoming it knowingly. There is a lot to work through, a lot of growth required and the timescale is unique and variable. However, I believe everyone is capable of it within one lifetime.
Yes, everyone is a microcosm of the universe, we are the same stuff. Each contains a representative part of the whole, though not the whole itself. Yet what does that matter ? We are distinguished by being a container for consciousness with which to explore the universe, a mind to make sense of it and an emotion to appreciate it.
Your writings get better and better. A natural poet. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 30 2015 : 8:10:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by karl
What if you could though what if you could know beyond any doubt that you were fully awake ?
That has been called knowingness. It is best expressed, not so much as a proclamation, but as fluid action. Petting the dog, feeding the koi in the pond, moving the mouth and tongue to utter syllables into the telephone. Every vibration can be imbued with the silent knowingness, as we spiral into more perfection. I say "more" because we are already perfect in our Beingness and evolution. Such perfection does not exclude imperfection either. 
quote:
Originally posted by karl
What happens if it isn't necessary to defeat the ego. That it is found to be an inseparable and unique part of what you are and lives in avid cooperation ?
I'm in total agreement there. Just another layer of Self.
When it comes to emotion, I always like to cite Yogani's brilliant statement: All emotion is the power of love. That pretty much knocks doubt out of the park. Even my hatred is a part of the equation. Might as well let it coalesce into a single-pointed, soft, non-focus on the non-goal of enlightenment. Hehehe...
Thank you for dancing with me in this non-absolute, endless play of clarity and impressionistic crystallizations.  |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2015 : 05:07:13 AM
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Knowingness expresses any way it wishes. It is boundless, infinite, abundant. That it might be described as 'love' is simply a concept. It might just as well be called bran flakes, or coca cola. If we stopped allowing emotional energy to strike randomly, like fork lighting during hurricanes season, it can be harnessed. We remember the first time the lighting started, it was during puberty. It steadied somewhat, we were driven to find sexual partners by its insistence. Always it rings the bell through our lives, but we had listened to it for so long that it had become the dominant voice in our heads. It drove us to satisfy emotional needs in multiple ways.
Knowingness is the end of that. Not the end of emotional, creative, compassionate, loving energy, but a way to channel that energy productively. It's like the wood that surrounds the sap that travels up the centre of a tree which contains the sap and forces it into branches, foliage and blossoms. Once it begins, it enjoys the creative usefulness to which it is put. It finds a home, and stops wandering, the mind becomes clear, placid, like a very deep lake which reflects everything perfectly. Things are seen as they are, action is pure because there are no emotional distortions in the perception. It isn't a finality, it's a new beginning. It isn't some magical, mystical thing, it's entirely as it should be, a wholly natural end to the emotional turmoil that began at puberty. A time of growing old gracefully, moving steadfastly onwards with perpetual growth and without the need to wrap oneself in the trappings of narcism.
It's a product of mature age, but not a right of age. It has to be worked at. The earlier we begin, the more chance of success. We transcend puberty as we transcended early childhood. That's all there is to it. |
Edited by - karl on May 31 2015 05:10:57 AM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2015 : 07:41:36 AM
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| Yes, an outpouring of divine love. The most natural thing. |
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karl
United Kingdom
1812 Posts |
Posted - May 31 2015 : 11:57:11 AM
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Nothing quite so poetic.
More of a blacksmiths anvil. No ornament, plain, blunt, utilitarian. One single block of solid incorruptible matter. Hard, unyielding, impermeable, shedding white hot metal and hammer blows with practised ease. From it come the everyday things of iron and steel. Nothing fancy mind you, just workaday items for farm, factory and domestic use.
If love is a horseshoe or a spade then I am that.
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