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billeejak
20 Posts |
 Posted - Sep 19 2006 : 2:02:58 PM
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Has any "Yogi Scientist" here practiced the Jesus Prayer of Greek Orthodox Hesychasm...Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me (and as is sometimes added: a sinner) in conjunction with or immediately following spinal breathing pranayama??? I would particularly be interested in hearing about the results.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm
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LittleTurtle
USA
342 Posts |
Posted - Sep 19 2006 : 3:17:28 PM
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| I have practised it but not with pranayam. So I can't comment on it's effects with pranayam, but I got profound emotional and mental healing from practising it. I practised it almost continuously for about two or three weeks a few years ago after a major life crisis/change. It's a very worthwhile practise. |
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snake
United Kingdom
277 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2006 : 05:31:43 AM
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| I am reading abook about this by brother Ramon,very interesting |
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sboney
18 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2006 : 8:39:33 PM
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Vladimir Antonov has a website subtitled "Modern Hesychasm." I have spent a little time on his site and it seems directly relevant to your question.
Lots of information there. Hope this helps! |
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sboney
18 Posts |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Oct 10 2006 : 10:29:18 PM
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Damn! I almost fell asleep trying to read wiki's derivation.
But I love how comprehensive they are. Interesting stuff. I'll have to try it. I've spent a lot of time contemplating each line of the lord's prayer, and found it gains more profound meaning with time. But that's different I think. |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2006 : 10:39:44 PM
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During 1992-1993 was my McPrayer year... I prayed constantly for one year after reading "Way of the Pilgrim". That particular prayer was too heavy for me, so I swapped it for Andrew Llyod Weber's Pie Jesu from his Requiem. I worked fast food 70-80 hours a week as I needed some type of regular activity to help me stay on the prayer. I blessed many a burger...
Sort of a mixed bag. One saying somewhere in the Philokalia is that "Prayer is silver and silence is gold." I had too much silver and not enough gold. Like doing too much pranayama and not enough meditation in AYP terms, so there are side effects if overdone.
In a monastic environment, maybe it would be a smoother practice.
Also, the religiosity in The Way of the Pilgrim and my ultraserious bodhisattva at the time is a bit overwrought and needs this degree of seriousness to really practice in this manner 24/7.
I think the experience of lots of Christian mystics and their challenges on the path is pretty extreme... only a few half insane and half lucky individuals could blast through to God using mostly pranayama type tools available from their tradition yet somehow reinvented meditation as a counter balance. Even with that, there was lots of the old dark night of the soul back then.
Still, Way of the Pilgrim is a great book. Especially the edition that has selections of the Philokalia in the back. I forget which one that is. The Philokalia reads more like a graveyard of imbalanced practices, than is actually helpful for day to day practice, imo.
-Yoda |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Oct 26 2006 : 10:45:50 PM
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| A good modern resource for this sort of practice are by Thomas Keating. It's been many years since reading his materials, but I remember that it actually does combine Christian prayer with a TM / mantrayana type approach. Having said that, the level of synthesis isn't as sophisticated as what you can put together after incorporating the basic principles of AYP. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2006 : 10:50:42 AM
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Namaste to All!
By way of introduction as a new member of this forum, I have been a yoga practitioner and meditator for the past 45 years. I am an Initiate Disciple of the late Sri Swami Narayanananda of Rishikesh, Himalayas, India, in the 4th Generation Lineage of Sri Ramakrishna Advaita Vedanta Universal Yoga. I am also an Ordained Antiochian Greek Orthodox Deacon, and have devoted many years to discovering and cultivating the common ground shared by both of these Spiritual Traditions.
The Greek Orthodox Catholic and Apostolic Church today is the continuation of the unified Christianity of the first 1,000+ years prior to the withdrawal of the Roman Catholic Church in 1054 A.D. Unlike Western Christianity, Orthodox Christianity is spiritually very Eastern in its perspective and practices. As such, like other Eastern Spiritual Traditions such as Hinduism and Buddhism, most Orthodox prayer and meditation practices are a blended combination of prayer formula (mantra japa), physical postures (asanas), and specific methods of regulating and synchronizing the breath (pranayama) with prayer and posture.
This is certainly true of the method officially known as 'The Prayer of the Heart', which is often referred to simply as 'The Jesus Prayer' as discussed here. Although the 'Prayer of the Heart' may be practiced unceasingly throughout the day in the course of work, school, or other activities by constant remembrance and repetition of the prayer, more structured meditative methods of practice also exist. These are probably most often practiced by clergy and monastics, but anyone can perform them if they wish to do so.
In the original methods, the 'Jesus Prayer' practice is traditionally performed while standing, as in the Old Jewish Custom. Orthodox prayer and liturgical practices are nearly always performed standing, not kneeling or sitting.
With arms and hands uplifted toward the heavens (asana), and head looking upward, a slow, deep breath is inhaled to the belly (pranayama) while mentally reciting "Lord Jesus Christ" (mantra japa), and simultaneously fixing mental attention (dharana) on visualizing Divine Golden White Light entering the body through the crown of the head to fill and permeate every part of the body internally, gathering especially at the Heart Center, and imagined to project outward from the Heart Center in every direction simultaneously. This visualization was later incorporated into Western Christian artwork and statues representing the 'Sacred Heart of Jesus' and the 'Immaculate Heart of Mary' as depicted here:
http://puffin.creighton.edu/jesuit/...ed_heart.jpg
http://www.ewtn.com/devotionals/hea...aryHeart.jpg
Next, continuing the 'Prayer', the left arm is lowered to place the left hand on the chest over the Heart Center while the right hand performs a 'Sign of the Cross', touching the middle of the forehead first, then the solar plexus, then the right shoulder, and lastly the left shoulder in that order. This is done with the ring finger and little finger touching the thumb, but with the index finger and middle finger remaining extended, the index finger slightly crossed over the top of the middle finger. This is the 'Gesture of Healing and Blessing'(mudra) seen in Icons of Christ, as in this example:
http://www.goarch.org/en/resources/.../Christ4.jpg
Some Orthodox alternately shape the right hand for making the 'Sign of the Cross' by touching the tips of the index finger and middle finger to the thumb, while simultaneously closing the ring finger and little finger into the palm of the hand as when forming a fist. I personally prefer the older Icon imitation shape better as it is very similar to the 'Prana Mudra' of the Hindu Yoga Tradition.
Either way, when the 'Sign of the Cross' is performed at this point in the Prayer, the head is lowered with chin to chest (bandha), and the breath is slowly exhaled while either mentally or vocally reciting "Have Mercy on me. Amen" (mantra japa). The body is bent forward in the process to touch the extended index and middle fingers of the right hand to the floor (asana). Monks and clergy of long experience, even the very elderly, are easily able to effortlessly bend forward and touch the floor as a result of many thousands of repetitions of the Prayer.
Continued practice is then merely to return to a straight, standing position, raise the arms and hands upward over the head, and repeat the entire prayer exercise again. Later versions of 'The Prayer of the Heart' added words to the prayer, and many people recite the Prayer with these additions as follows: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have Mercy on me, a sinner." Either method is acceptable. I personally find greater strength in the simplicity of the earlier, original versions. I hope this offers some clarification on this practice.
Hari OM!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Oct 29 2006 08:28:02 AM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2006 : 11:15:30 AM
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| Welcome to the forum, Doc. |
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weaver
832 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2006 : 11:18:08 AM
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| Hi Doc, welcome to the AYP forum! |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2006 : 8:26:28 PM
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Namaste Scott and Weaver! Thanks for the warm welcome.
Yoda:
The Philokalia has traditionally been considered an advanced study manual and practice guide for tonsured monastics and ordained clergy, not for the average secular parish member or the general public. It has an entirely different flavor, and a more alive sense of balanced synchronicity, within the context of a monastic environment and lifestyle. It's content was not meant for those who are not already spiritually well grounded and experienced in Eastern Orthodox Contemplative Prayer and Meditation Methods and the Ascetic Practices of the Orthodox Hesychast Tradition. 
The Desert Fathers certainly weren't envisioning the 'Prayer of the Heart' being practiced at a fast food gig when these methods were formulated, although I think it's very cool that you attempted to do that, especially since doing so is totally in harmony with the idea of drawing the Divine Presence into any activity, any situation, or any location through the constant repetition of the 'Prayer'.
Warm regards to all ~
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Oct 28 2006 11:29:37 PM |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Oct 28 2006 : 11:31:49 PM
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Sooo whats up Doc!!!! 
Sorry couldn't resist it...
Welcome to the forum. |
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Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2006 : 04:08:09 AM
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Hello Doc welcome to the forum
Richard |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2006 : 09:51:06 AM
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Shanti:
What's up is whatever you can really get down with! Sorry, but I couldn't resist either. Thanks for asking.
Azaz: Thanks for the cool welcome!
Hari Om!
Doc |
Edited by - Doc on Oct 29 2006 09:53:06 AM |
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Kirtanman
USA
1651 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2006 : 2:18:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc
Shanti:
What's up is whatever you can really get down with! Sorry, but I couldn't resist either. Thanks for asking.
Azaz: Thanks for the cool welcome!
Hari Om!
Doc
quote:
Originally posted by Doc
Shanti:
What's up is whatever you can really get down with! Sorry, but I couldn't resist either. Thanks for asking.
Azaz: Thanks for the cool welcome!
Hari Om!
Doc
Hari Om & NamaskaraH,
Welcome, Doc!
Like the great sage Shanti was quoting - Sri Pralapasasi* - I'm the curious sort, so went a-clicking ... and came across the forum / site thingy where you seem to participate often. With gusto.
(This would be TTEM, of course, per the link you kindly posted in your profile - cool stuff!)
And, looks like you must have done something karmically correct over many lifetimes, because I see you have the privilege of residing in the region that is one of the best kept geographical secrets on the planet ... namely the Texas Hill Country.
(I lived in Austin for four years; may well be back!)
Anyway, welcome - it's good to have you here!
*Pralapasasi - "Crazy-talking Rabbit".
;-)
Hari Om & Namaste,
Kirtanman
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2006 : 8:11:25 PM
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Hello Kirtanman:
Thank you for the warm welcome.
This Texas Hill Country is an area of incredible natural beauty in which the Divine Presence is evident everywhere. It has a very magical and mystical energy, and was considered a sacred land by the American Indians who were native to this part of Texas.
It is a wonderful place to practice Yoga Sadhana, Tai-Chi Chuan, The Prayer of the Heart, Meditation, or any other spiritual self-cultivation discipline.
For the sake of any fond remembrances that you may have of the Texas Hill Country, and for those who have not been here before, here are a few examples taken near where I live.
http://www.shreveporthog.com/PhotoP...ROT/17sm.jpg
http://www.isu.edu/~bhstamm/images/...s-creek1.jpg
http://www.ambersoft.com/Photograph...03_04_18.jpg
Om! Aham Brahmasmi! Om! Satchitanandam Brahman!
Doc
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Edited by - Doc on Oct 31 2006 1:09:07 PM |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 29 2006 : 10:56:03 PM
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| WOW! Amazing pictures. Thanks Doc...I think I've found the place where I want to reside. |
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2006 : 01:17:10 AM
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Hello Scott! My pleasure. Sorry I got off topic though.
So, getting back to our discussion, I stated previously that 'The Jesus Prayer', or 'The Prayer of the Heart', originally developed within the Orthodox Monastic Tradition, but can be practiced by anyone...anywhere...anytime as a way to develop the habit of 'Unceasing Prayerfulness'.
Nonetheless, 'The Jesus Prayer' is still practiced in its fullest expression most often in the context of a monastic environment. However, the fact is that very few men and women hear an inner spiritual call to lead a monastic lifestyle. Monasticism has never appealed to very many individuals of any generation in any religious or spiritual tradition, and such a life certainly still doesn't appeal to many in this day and age.
As such, most people have never even visited a monastery of any kind, even for a short spiritual retreat, let alone to join the community. Thus, discussion about practices most often found in the "monastic environment", therefore, such as the 'Prayer of the Heart', are difficult to fully appreciate.
Having acknowledged that, and remembering being told that "a picture is worth a thousand words", I thought perhaps readers here could find some greater appreciation of the 'Jesus Prayer' if they could see the kind of atmosphere in which Orthodox Christian Monks typically live, work, meditate, and pray. So check these photos out of a Serbian Orthodox Monastery in Kosovo, and imagine how different your perspective on meditation and the 'Jesus Prayer' might be in such an environment. Enjoy!
http://www.kosovo.net/pastir_y.jpg
http://www.kosovo.net/elders.jpg
http://www.kosovo.net/dec1.jpg
http://www.kosovo.net/010_y.jpg
http://www.kosovo.net/crkva_y.jpg
http://www.kosovo.net/im016.jpg
http://www.kosovo.net/dst02_y.jpg
http://www.kosovo.net/dst04_y.jpg
http://www.kosovo.net/dst06_y.jpg
http://www.kosovo.net/dst10_y.jpg
http://www.kosovo.net/dst12_y.jpg
May God grant you all many years!
Doc |
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Yoda
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2006 : 09:58:54 AM
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Doc,
Who would've thunk there's an Eastern Orthodox Cowboy posting around here?
Clears up a few questions I had about my homebrew experience. Any cool Eastern Orthodox Jesus Prayer websites up to your knowledge?
Thanks for the input!
-Yoda |
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Scott
USA
969 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2006 : 10:43:23 AM
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Doc,
Turn into because I am one that hears the call to lead such a life. Thanks for the monastic pictures. |
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billeejak
20 Posts |
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billeejak
20 Posts |
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yogani
USA
5201 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2006 : 2:31:22 PM
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Topic moved for better placement.
Sorry this is being done so late in the discussion. This is a very informative topic on the Christian meditation tradition. Please keep going. Thank you.
The guru is in you.
PS -- Welcome aboard Doc!
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yoginstar
Netherlands
78 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2006 : 3:29:10 PM
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Doc: what a delight to read your introductory post..... some years ago I was in the Greek part of Cyprus, and after following a nature trail we ended op the top of some beautiful hill where there was a tiny little church ... inside there were icons and a few chairs. I meditated on on of them and never in my life have I had such "ecstatic conductivty" from the feet to the crown and backwards like clockwork and in great gulps of energy, in/from any sacred spot on earth, as I had in that little church in the middle of nowhere. I went out, and came back later, and sat down again, it immediately started again. I looked at the icons and saw that the saints were all depicted with their hands in various mudra positions and I was sure there was a relation between the East and the Greek Orthodox Church. I've never learned the meanings of mudra's yet so far but your post is confirming exactly what I thought. I'm not sure whether this post will not be mved to where it belongs as it is not about the jesus prayer, just sharing my enthusiasm after reading your intro!
Best!
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Doc
USA
394 Posts |
Posted - Oct 30 2006 : 11:39:58 PM
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Wow! Thanks to you all for such a warm welcome here, and for being so open to discussion of a topic that probably wouldn't find alot of acceptance on many internet forums out there. Very cool indeed!
http://www.balamandmonastery.org.lb/Mercy.jpg
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Hari Om! Namaste, yogani ~
Kudos to you for a wonderful website and discussion forum, virtually filled to overflowing with really solid content and great teaching from you. Thank you for allowing me to participate here.
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Yoda ~ Check these sites for more on the Jesus Prayer:
http://www.goarch.org/en/ourfaith/a...icle7104.asp
http://www.balamandmonastery.org.lb...ayer.htm#art
http://www.monachos.net/monasticism...prayer.shtml
http://home.it.net.au/~jgrapsas/pages/Jprayer.html
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Scott ~ I, too, have heard the inner call to lead a monastic life. As a younger man, I responded to such a calling twice, once entering a Christian Monastery, and once as a Sannyasin at a Yoga Ashram, with many spiritual/meditation retreats at every conceivable type of spiritual/religious community. In the end, however, I always felt in my heart that God calls me to teach and to heal in this life, so that is what I have done for more than 30 years to date. Follow what your heart tells you whenever it is quiet and you are alone, especially when praying or meditating, for this is when God speaks to us most easily. This one's especially for you!
http://www.vic.com/~tscon/pelagia/h...orite.05.htm
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billeejak ~ Thanks for the great links! The writing of Kyriacos C. Markides often resonates with my own perpsective on the subjects he writes about. I like his writing generally speaking. Here's one of my favorites for those who are unfamiliar with his written works:
http://elevated.freeyellow.com/page10.html
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Yogini ~ What a wonderful experience, and a great story! Thanks for sharing that with all of us. Your story and comments are most welcome and appropriate in this thread, IMO, because much of what you felt in that church was undoutedly due to the residual, ecstatic spiritual energy accumulated over time by those who regularly practice the Jesus Prayer and other personal devotions there, as well as the residual spiritual energy resulting from the celebration of 'The Divine Liturgy' and other liturgical ritual services performed there. Perhaps you will find this article of interest:
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/187/...18752_1.html
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Peace, Light and Love to All ~
Doc
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Edited by - Doc on Oct 31 2006 12:34:29 AM |
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The Jesus Prayer...
