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justaguy
USA
39 Posts |
 Posted - Jan 02 2015 : 8:05:58 PM
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Hi!
I have been practicing the AYP techniques for a number of years now, but I find myself in an odd predicament, and wonder if anyone can relate.
For most of my adult life as far as "religion" goes I have/had adhered to a Sikh and Hindu viewpoint, it held no "external conflict" with AYP etc...
In recent months I have gone back to the faith I was raised in Eastern Orthodoxy (Christianity.) Not only do I see no conflict with AYPs but have found that I have returned to it with an understanding, and a love and a depth I never knew before.
I know there are some in my religion that would "badmouth" and speak evil of AYPs, so I have chosen to just keep that part of my life private...I suppose in that, at least I feel conflicted. Yet I am happier than I have been in decades (going back to the religion of my childhood) and feel that AYPs and my faith are like right and left hands working together.
Just curious what others think about this, their own experience, etc...
It's been AGES since I posted, been practicing on my own a long time, and it will be good to hang around the forums and hear thoughts of other people for a change.
What say ye?  |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2015 : 12:41:05 AM
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Dear Justaguy,
It is my understanding that Real Yoga - whether AYP, HOY or whatever other "religiously neutral" systems exist out there - can be used by persons of ANY religion. We practice from our own personal bhakti, within the context of our particular sociocultural mythology. I don't see any reason for a conflict.
Having said that, there ARE religions which oppose yoga on the basis that:
1. "It is a Hindu practice." Not true, as explained above.
2. "Yoga teaches salvation by your own effort rather than the grace of God." This demonstrates a big misunderstanding of yoga; the Gita even says liberation is by the grace of God.
3. "Consciousness-altering or mind-quieting practices are inherently bad and dangerous because they open you up to demonic influences." This latter objection could not be maintained by the Orthodox Church because it has its own deep tradition of meditation in the form of the Jesus Prayer as well as silent contemplative prayer.
However, despite this I personally know of at least one person who left AYP because they had been told by their Orthodox spiritual director that yoga is from the devil and/or is a completely different thing than doing the Jesus Prayer, and will cause you to be taken over by "other gods" (as if there were any "other gods"??). And yes, you can find plenty of Orthodox people saying such things.
As an Episcopalian, I enjoy doing the Jesus Prayer silently along with pranayama and find it to be an excellent mantra! I practice my yoga as "whole body prayer" and find no contradiction whatsoever but then, the Episcopal Church is extremely mellow. But there is nothing about AYP that should make it incompatible with any religion. Yogani has purposely kept it "neutral" so as to be accessible to everyone. It does not invoke Hindu gods. Everything is offered to one's own ishta, which as an Orthodox Christian, would be Christ.
If you have not already read "Wounded by Love" by Elder Porphyros, you MUST check it out. This lovely Orthodox classic describes one man's exploration of "the Eros of God," being madly in Divine Love.   |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2015 : 02:35:00 AM
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Your post is inspiring, justaguy. Thank you. 
AYP is quite scientific and focuses on the purification and opening of the nervous system. What religion has a monopoly on the nervous system? None.
What I have found very liberating is the ability to admire and study various avatars (Jesus, Buddha, Paramahansa Yogananda and his lineage, for instance) without the need to exclusively wrap my identity around them. That is a pitfall of religion: wishing to possess these sacred beings and use them as dogmatic mechanisms. Obviously, such exclusivity fails over the long term, because the avatars, in reality, embody the inclusiveness and Oneness of all creation.
One of my favorite Yogani quotes that comes to mind is: [paraphrased] It's not so much what we believe in, but who we become, that matters in the end.
What more is belief than an inkling or rising curiosity to see if something may be real or true? The practices give us the tools to investigate and validate the truth of our beliefs. And that's what keeps me coming back. The chance to get a little bit closer to my ishta.
Great topic! Thanks for opening up.  |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2015 : 04:43:20 AM
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Hi Justaguy,
I was raised as a Catholic girl, in my teens I stopped with going to church, and believing in Jezus and God.....it was not my believe, I did not understand it, church ,Jesus, the stories, at that moment I saw God as an old bearded man somewhere in a faraway heaven......
But then, many years later, I found God again, inside and outside myself, not calling that God because of the dogma of the church from my childhood....
At this moment I can see God as he is for me and after my meditations I sometimes hear Amen or Father Son and Holy spirit, like I used to in my childhood, and I asked myself why?
And I know that in dept, it doesn't matter, it is all one. All real teachers teach love, no Christianity, Hindu, Islam, Buddhism or whatever name. There is no conflict, only people make the conflicts, with there judgements.
When I am in a church now, I can see the beauty of the symbols, I can read in a Bible and the Bhagavat Gita and see that the meaning is the same. I am interested in Holy Scriptures, see them as puzzles to discover and do not feel the need to give myself a religion thats mine.
There is so much to discover, if you are open minded....Yoga learned me to see the beauty of my life and the need to investigate myself and my real Truth.
Thank you for the topic, I like joining the forums but notice it is difficult for me to express myself in English, that will be a good practice too then 
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2015 : 07:52:51 AM
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| Namaste ,I suppose for me we live on a planet in a solar system in Galaxy which is one of billions and this is all made from an infinite number of atoms, our own religion ,language ,race ect ect pales into insignificance when this is put into our narratives of God ,creator ,any offering to this whether it be one flower at an altar or you whole being is accepted ,as just to recognise a causality is a wonderful spiritual moment the understanding comes by grace but surely the grace is being given the path in first place then it's up to us to tread gently always wanting to be closer to the divine asking for guidance from our ideal whether it may be Christ or krishna Allah the ideal really is just that putting our own inclinations karmas that fit our identity we create for ourselves the real skill is to be part of this because this is how we relate to others and form bonds and our community but to realise the greater truth lies elsewhere and the road we travel for our brief existence is but a blink of an eye in the eternal vision. |
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justaguy
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2015 : 6:44:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Radharani
If you have not already read "Wounded by Love" by Elder Porphyros, you MUST check it out. This lovely Orthodox classic describes one man's exploration of "the Eros of God," being madly in Divine Love.
I've heard that it is a wonderful book, yes. I would entirely disagree that the Jesus Prayer is a Mantra, only because it is not taught as a mantra, rather a conscious invocation of the heart towards God, a plea, if you will... all the way back to the hesychastic fathers, it is taught (specifically) that the Jesus Prayer is a direct conversation and evocation, one must be speaking directly to God and not be lost in the sound of the words of the prayer...anyhow...
Having said that, I still agree that there is no inherent problem with AYPs and Orthodoxy...My own spiritual father agrees, he said "anything to enter into greater silence is a gift of God, Jesus was able to perform the miraculous because of all the time he spent 'off by himself' diving into the silence" |
Edited by - justaguy on Jan 04 2015 12:29:44 PM |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2015 : 04:36:13 AM
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I find that AYP has made it possible for me to have greater understanding of the scriptures and holy books, no matter from which tradition. I have had occasion over the past month to attend mass at three different churches and enjoyed myself each time. I have just been given a beautifully sculpted little Buddha which I have given a place of honour on a shelf in my bedroom. My ideal is Jesus - who remains imprinted on my Consciousness at all times; my Guru SriYukteswar often sits across from me. Now all three preside over my meditation sittings. I am so blessed!
Now AYPers obviously sees no conflict with any teachings /traditions of Truth but that does not mean that these Churches find no problem with AYP or Yoga in general. I am often looked at with suspicion when I state that I am a Yoga practitioner but that is very fast diffused when I start speaking of my mad love of God
Sey
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Jan 05 2015 : 07:29:39 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
I have had occasion over the past month to attend mass at three different churches and enjoyed myself each time. I have just been given a beautifully sculpted little Buddha which I have given a place of honour on a shelf in my bedroom. My ideal is Jesus - who remains imprinted on my Consciousness at all times; my Guru SriYukteswar often sits across from me. Now all three preside over my meditation sittings. I am so blessed!
Love it!
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Edited by - Charliedog on Jan 05 2015 07:59:25 AM |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2015 : 01:12:40 AM
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| keep it a secret. let the love pour out of you and serve others. if someone wants to know show them |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2015 : 06:48:59 AM
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| "Let your light shine so brightly, that others could find there way out" ? |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2015 : 10:45:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by justaguy
I would entirely disagree that the Jesus Prayer is a Mantra, only because it is not taught as a mantra, rather a conscious invocation of the heart towards God, a plea, if you will... all the way back to the hesychastic fathers, it is taught (specifically) that the Jesus Prayer is a direct conversation and evocation, one must be speaking directly to God and not be lost in the sound of the words of the prayer...anyhow...
ok, thx for clarifying definitions - I was using the word "mantra" in a more general sense, i.e. "spiritual words repeated over and over." And yes, I do it CONSCIOUSLY as a heartfelt prayer! - in contrast to the technical AYP definition of a mantra as a sound without focusing on the meaning. I guess a more accurate label would be "chanting japa." Whenever I chant the Names I do so as conscious communion with God. However, what the Jesus Prayer has in common with "mantra" is that it eventually keeps going all by itself so that it is chanting in your heart without even having to think about it. Elder Porphyrios discusses this in his book.
Your spiritual father sounds great! |
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justaguy
USA
39 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2015 : 12:12:51 PM
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Agreed,
I think many westerners as they approach japa do not realize that it is as much (if not more) about bhakti than it is mantra. With the JP, I am consciously aware that I am consciously invoking JC, speaking to him directly. I am taught that if this is NOT the case I am doing it incorrectly. You are right though that the Prayer continues on its own in the heart, but I STILL would not say it does that "like a mantra" it is more of the actual invocation and "position of the heart and mind" repeating itself over and over.
As to whomever said "keep it private, and share it with those who ask for it" I agree with that (generally even, not just in this case.) I've noticed a habit of mine, that I think "someone will be better off" if I teach them "my understanding of yoga", and I feel that (many times) this comes more from my own arrogance and self-assuredness (sp?) than it does a real desire for their well being.
Thanks all!
quote:
Originally posted by Radharani
quote:
Originally posted by justaguy
I would entirely disagree that the Jesus Prayer is a Mantra, only because it is not taught as a mantra, rather a conscious invocation of the heart towards God, a plea, if you will... all the way back to the hesychastic fathers, it is taught (specifically) that the Jesus Prayer is a direct conversation and evocation, one must be speaking directly to God and not be lost in the sound of the words of the prayer...anyhow...
ok, thx for clarifying definitions - I was using the word "mantra" in a more general sense, i.e. "spiritual words repeated over and over." And yes, I do it CONSCIOUSLY as a heartfelt prayer! - in contrast to the technical AYP definition of a mantra as a sound without focusing on the meaning. I guess a more accurate label would be "chanting japa." Whenever I chant the Names I do so as conscious communion with God. However, what the Jesus Prayer has in common with "mantra" is that it eventually keeps going all by itself so that it is chanting in your heart without even having to think about it. Elder Porphyrios discusses this in his book.
Your spiritual father sounds great!
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