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SwamiX
USA
35 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 21 2014 : 2:15:16 PM
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Although I had been dismissive of him early on (perhaps because of the whole Oprah vibe that surrounded him), reading interviews with Eckhart Tolle has convinced me he is the real deal. See, for example, the following: http://www.inner-growth.info/power_...w_parker.htm
His discussion of the whole awakening process is one of the most lucid I have come across. What’s intriguing, to me, about his case is the total lack of preparation. In AYP, as in yoga and Tantra generally, awakening is seen as a gradual process of purification in which “impurities” (samskaras) are removed through daily practice. This purification results in the gradual rise of the “witness” and the other symptoms of purification - rising bliss, sensations of heat, etc. However, in his case, there is no “daily practice”; moreover, he does not mentioned that, prior to the awakening, he noticed any of the symptoms we would attribute to advancing purification. On the contrary, he was in a state of despair on the night before his transition. In fact, one of the things that makes his case fascinating is that he does not understand what’s happening:
“I woke up in a state of incredible inner peace, bliss in fact. With my eyes still closed, I heard the sound of a bird and realized how precious that was. And then I opened my eyes and saw the sunlight coming through the curtains and felt: There is far more to that than we realize. It felt like love coming through the curtains. And then as I walked around the old familiar objects in the room I realized I had never really seen them before. It was as if I had just been born into this world; a state of wonder. And then I went for a walk in the city. I was still in London. Everything was miraculous, deeply peaceful. Even the traffic. [Chuckle]
I knew something incredible had happened, although I didn't understand it. I even started writing down in a diary, "Something incredible has happened. I just want to write this down," I said, "in case it leaves me again or I lose it." And only later did I realize (that my thought processes after waking up that morning had been reduced by about eighty to ninety percent. So a lot of the time I was walking around in a state of inner stillness, and perceiving the world through inner stillness.”
So, what are we to make of a case like his? Perhaps in his previous lives he was a yogi of some stature, and his awakening was the culmination of those efforts. However, then I would think that, prior to his awakening, you would expect him to have a strong foretaste of what was to come – rising bliss, kundalini symptoms of some sort, etc. I would be interested to hear other’s thoughts on a case like his.
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joseph
117 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2014 : 2:55:52 PM
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In Eckhart's case I think it's worth noting as well that for years after the transformation he went through other types of changes. For example he says he went very deeply into the stillness, much like Ramana Maharshi, he sais (but not to that extreme). He was "doing just enough to survive" (From one of his talks - I forget which). Perhaps he was somewhat bewildered by the change and felt like he had to stabilize in the new state.
I think his ego kind of exploded, from the pressure of resistance. I imagine the ego to be under similar or same laws as the physical universe. In the case of a huge star once it reaches a certain point it can no longer support itself and collapses in a massive explosion. It happens to huge ego's occasionally - they can't keep going and explode! And what's left in the case of a star is a beautiful nebula stretching across the cosmos. What's left after the ego explosion is a beautiful human being.
Namaste |
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NewbieGG
Bulgaria
52 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2014 : 5:09:19 PM
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Hi Swami , I've been thinking on this from some time , I feel there is something really important hidden in this case . Tolle has incredible gift to touch with words I can listen to him with hours but many question arise about how valid are his methods to other people .
I think Joseph is right .What happened to Eckhart is that the ego just died all at once - no resistance , no long process of surrender by installments :) He mentioned his last thought was " I don't want to live like this anymore " . I suspect long time that what we call purification in yoga is actually killing the ego.
He describes so good how to go in witness - to observe the parts of your body , the interaction with other objects , the sounds coming out of this interaction , the surroundings . I tried that and it works immediately ,the witness state is coming on waves like tide... the problem is that soon after that strong energy symptoms and blockages occur in my body .
So I think once on the yogic path one must keep with it and avoid any other quick realization method as it will lead to overload . It is interesting what will happen if a random person (who know nothing about yoga and enlightenment) practices Tolle's methods .
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Edited by - NewbieGG on Nov 21 2014 5:38:26 PM |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Nov 21 2014 : 6:57:56 PM
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One thing you have to be careful with when it comes to teachers like Eckhart Tolle is: the illusion of attainment ("I have arrived."). Basically, it's clinging to the witness condition too fervently. But the witness is just the beginning. It's how you manifest stillness that matters.
One common thing with teachers like Tolle is to portray the mind as villainous, and the ego as well. Since they have a sense of distance from ego and mind, much of their teaching platform is spent cleverly describing that distance, and using self-inquiry as a means of maintaining the distance.
For me, the teachers I admire are demonsrating the miracle of life through arts, crafts, sciences, or some form of expression beyond the non-duality language of detachment. Detachment isn't much really. Detachment with re-engagement, re-immersion, and manifestation is much more inspiring and revealing of the Divine.
Practices like Spinal Breathing and Samyama are more active and leaning towards engagement and energy balance.
It's about going from kindergarten (the witness) to grade school (witness in action). |
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Nov 22 2014 : 4:51:56 PM
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Action without desiring the fruits of action whilst still acting .bodhi thankyou you answered a question posed by an audio book I've just listened to by Elkhart. |
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KarenVic
Canada
67 Posts |
Posted - Feb 07 2015 : 7:54:02 PM
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Hello
I have had the blessing to be in Master Eckhart Tolles retreats. During one such retreat I realized the Oneness of Being, just from him looking in my eyes as he drove by. He is the real deal for sure. When he spoke, it was as if I were in the presence of the Great Mystery, and the reverence and peace that held the room was a slice of Heaven.
His teachings and just hearing his voice is a gift to Humanity at this critical stage However I have been frustrated in keeping my level of consciousness at a higher lever, deliberatly and have found the AYP teachings to be the other side of the coin needed to evolve consciously.
So ET on one sid of the coin, AYP on the other
how blessed I am to live in such a time to find these things
Thank you
Sat Nam |
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2015 : 07:32:35 AM
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Om_Boy
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - Feb 08 2015 : 09:10:59 AM
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I learned so much from reading his books. He is a very wise man. He also mentions that his "awakening" came out of a dark place. He was about to kill himself and had many suicidal thoughts. He was able to find his way out of the darkness, into the light, and "awakened".
Hes very straight on the fact too that he just wants to share this, and he's not looking to be a guru or anything like that. Amazing man. |
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margaret1958
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2015 : 08:34:06 AM
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I feel that I owe my awakening to Eckhart Tolle. I read The Power of Now and it completely changed my life. I had severe phobias to the point where I could barely leave my house. I was suicidal. The voice in my head was driving me insane. He taught me how to cut the inner chatter and how to live in the now. I will be forever grateful to him.
I know that his teachings set my spiritual growth in motion. I just did what he said to do and amazing things started to happen. I had no idea what was in store for me when I first read his books. I was just trying to survive at that point. Kundalini was the result. Wow!!
Thank you Eckhart Tolle! |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2015 : 10:12:17 AM
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"A New Earth" from Eckhart Tolle was the first book I read, after my K awakening and my sudden interest in spirituality. My life changed after that in so many ways that I am grateful to him as one of the first of my teachers about life in all dimensions.
How and why he came to his enlightenment ? Things happen, it looks like an "out of the blue" Kundalini awakening but sometimes you can see much later, that it was not "out of the blue" and mend to be. This life is a short moment in all times, I suppose....
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Edited by - Charliedog on Feb 15 2015 10:53:25 AM |
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sadhak77
Canada
18 Posts |
Posted - Apr 08 2015 : 11:41:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
One thing you have to be careful with when it comes to teachers like Eckhart Tolle is: the illusion of attainment ("I have arrived."......
With respect, I think you also have to be careful with assumptions about a teacher when you aren't clear on where they're coming from and what they actually have to say on various topics and themselves.
As far as:
1) Illusion of attainment: A distinction is made between awakening which is the end of the false identification with mind/body/ego, and what may seem paradoxical which is an ongoing deepening, unfolding, opening, learning, experiencing, releasing. The difference post awakening being that whatever needs to unfold/evolve does so without the illusion of a "doer" at the wheel.
2) Mind/ego as villainous: I don't find this is the case on the whole with him. He simply doesn't hold punches on what they are and what needs to happen for true freedom. And it's not that mind/ego dies with awakening, although there are inevitably changes that take place. It is that the illusion that I am mind/ego is dissolved. They still remain and have their functions in the world, but they are no longer a problem in an absolute sense.
3) Using self-enquiry to maintain the distance: Self-inquiry is certainly one tool, but not the only one by any means. And while there is a sense of doing/maintaining in this unfolding process, it becomes effortless Being with awakening. It would not be true freedom after all, if it was a state which needed to be maintained by a me.
4) Miracle of life through {arts} vs cold detachment (my take on your words): Again you are assuming that freedom must look a certain way, and also that he is some cold detached, disembodied, uncreative person. I don't get that sense at all.
I think you have created a contrast/division here which doesn't exist in reality. |
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Apkallu
France
108 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2016 : 05:44:31 AM
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quote:
2) Mind/ego as villainous: I don't find this is the case on the whole with him. He simply doesn't hold punches on what they are and what needs to happen for true freedom. And it's not that mind/ego dies with awakening, although there are inevitably changes that take place. It is that the illusion that I am mind/ego is dissolved. They still remain and have their functions in the world, but they are no longer a problem in an absolute sense.
Exactly.
I must admit that I have been hearing a lot from him (a french radio named "Ici et Maintenant" or "Here and Now" if you prefer) and that I was not fond of him till I read his book "The Power of Now".
But whaou... it is enlightening a lot and helps me understanding the day-to-day effects/results of AYP.
I have not observed overloading but just began to look in me more seriously during the day.
But it seems I had already gained significant inner silence as I may experience numerous and long periods with no thoughts (which is kind of creepy for me as I have always been a mentally hyperactive person).
Well just to say it is good to read from my perspective even though you practice AYP.
However, as Yogani already said if I remember well, I also doubt this to be effective for most people with no yoga or similar practice at all. |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2016 : 10:24:43 AM
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Hi I find myself wondering just what is the point of discussing this individual in the first place?
From what I have read so far he is a personality some find of interest but what good comes of buying books other than to fatten his wallet?
Seriously does he instruct on anything at all or is he just another talking head?
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2016 : 5:20:01 PM
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| so hi have you really listened to eckhart |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2016 : 6:52:51 PM
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| Hi Kumar because you asked listening on utube right now. |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2016 : 7:21:49 PM
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Here's a direct quote from Tolle's writing on Oprah's website (http://www.oprah.com/oprahs-lifecla...ur-Ego-Armor)
"For example, when you're in a long line at the supermarket, your mind might start complaining how slow the checkout person is, how he should be doing this or doing that, or he failed to do anything at all—including packing the bag of the person ahead of you correctly. When this happens, the ego has you in its grip."
So, there's a classic example of spinning "the ego" as a villain. If something can get you in "its grip", it surely is not a friend. If a real-life person came out of the shadows and gripped me around the neck with insidious intent, that person would be a threat to me, i.e. a villain.
Here's more from the same essay:
"Awareness is the beginning of becoming free of the ego because then you realize that your thoughts—and the negative emotions they produce—are dysfunctional and unnecessary."
That statement is simply untrue. What happens is that pure bliss consciousness (awareness) illuminates BOTH the ego and thoughts from within. Therefore, the inner voice of the ego becomes more aligned with divine love, unity, wisdom, and so forth. Also, negative emotions can be directed to THE ISHTA with positive results. So, negative emotions can be of good use, believe it or not.
When we practice samyama, we use the ego voice on a very subtle level...releasing sutras into silence. If not the ego voice of one's individual personality, then whose? An alien entity that has taken over your body?--Yikes!
It must be the ego (the inner voice) that cultivates divine love. The ego is the vehicle of enlightenment. The ego is a friend. The ego is not out to get you.
More from the same Tolle essay:
"...the ego doesn't want to change."
That statement is also blatantly untrue. The ego does exactly what we want it to do. The ego is a perfect product of conditioning. If we condition the ego to embrace change, the ego will shout with joy when change comes along. That's the way it works.
With AYP, we just amend and improve the conditioning by first going into silence, then by moving outward from silence, with better programming and purpose in place (like the samyama sutras).
[I post this with all due respect to Tolle and those who enjoy his writings. I am merely providing direct quotations here to show that I'm not pulling my observations and conclusions out of thin air.] |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2016 : 9:56:58 PM
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Hi Kumar and everyone I am listening to this guy and honestly all I am hearing is common sense that anyone should already know. He is another one that speaks in a dulcet voice or what I call a drugged voice.
What is this voice act anyway is it something rehearsed by these so called new age wise men to get people to listen carefully to their drivel?
When Yogani speaks he does so as a normal person not with a pretend voice it is one of the things that got my attention right up front and made me think thank goodness someone genuine at last not putting on the dog.
As of now I support what Bodhi has said 110% but I do not do it with respect as so far I have not seen or heard anything to be respectful of.
I have also read some excerpts of his books from Amazon and am really just not impressed.
When I hear Yogani speak I am impressed. When reading Yogani's writings I am impressed.
When reading Christi and his replies I am often taken aback by his deep insight.
When reading what Bodhi writes I often think he is a younger version of myself and far more passionate a person that expresses his truth just as he sees it and respect him for that.
When reading what Kumar writes I think what a great heart.
When reading what Sunyata and others write I think how sincere how naked and boldly upfront, and refreshing, when reading what Charlie dog writes I think your grasp of English is so good because you really work at it and what a deep understanding this person has.
There are more sorry if I missed names but compared to these people this guy is a wet dish rag.
It seems his whole schtick revolves around mind dramas, scenarios and not much of anything else anyone with a shred of inner silence from Deep Meditation already knows all of this and far, far more.
Because of Kumar I will listen more but not to very much more.
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kumar ul islam
United Kingdom
791 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2016 : 04:35:18 AM
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| eckhart i am sure has taken many to to the shore of the soul ,i myself have visited this shore many times in my life,leaving the shore is the hardest part knowing you need to leave behind all who taken you to its edge ,from eckhart tolle ,leo tolstoy,gandi ,and many others ,in this regard you also leave behind the sense of seperation you have ,the prejudices the loves and hates and anger .i think i have left the shore but returning at times to put my feet on dry land and once again departing with the ferryman talking with him, slowly being taken across to the other side and like siddhartha trying to listen to what the river is telling me the more i listen there is one word that repeats and its love ,i love eckhart he is neither right or wrong i would listen to him like i listen to any other human being we all have our narrartive ,some with more words some less but all as worthy of our ear without casting judement from our point of separation from them .love and blessings to all on this january morning in the year 2016 |
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Charliedog
1625 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2016 : 05:40:57 AM
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Kumar
There are many teachers, not one, for everyone there is a teacher, with words that resonate at that moment.....
In stead of comparing teachers and judge them by our own perspectives we can let our Light Shine....
and be happy that Eckhart Tolle brings Love & Light in the life of many.
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Apkallu
France
108 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2016 : 06:55:15 AM
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Hi,
With all due respect, I am not sure you actually read any of his books (while myself I have read only one half of the Power of Now till then  ).
Of course, one could extract a sentence and say what is wrong in it by lack of contextualization.
As I said, I had the same bad feeling when hearing him and told myself at these occasions that he was a fake or a sort of new age guru.
Whatever.
My understanding of his teachings is that what he designates as the ego is the bad side of the mind. He's not saying the mind is bad but that we shall not let it prevail over our true nature.
The presence/Being shall prevail and thus guide our mind in a positive manner.
He also explains that the transformation process is fed by bad emotions/thoughts (so they are somehow valuable) that arise apart from the Source/Being/TrueSelf whatever you name it.
I am pretty aware not being that far on the Path than most of you but still my impression is that it is more valuable than common sense.
Because if it is common sense to you, it is not to 99% of the people I know and that common sense could be greatly useful to those.
Finally, had I to choose between AYP or Eckhart Tolle, I would of course choose Yogani (well, you know why) but the latter is worth reading as many others I am sure.
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Edited by - Apkallu on Jan 08 2016 07:16:47 AM |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2016 : 09:57:42 AM
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Good morning all.
quote:
Because if it is common sense to you, it is not to 99% of the people I know and that common sense could be greatly useful to those.
I suppose this could be true but being stuck with what is common sense to me it is difficult to be sure what is not common sense to others, impossible in fact.
This does raise a good point though. How does all this talking and book writing ever get one to a true understanding of what this person is describing if it is not already known?
To me this is where all these talkers fall flat on their faces.
Why? because you have to have the understanding before you can really understand and take my somewhat are you kidding me type position and that only comes form two places as far as I know.
Place 1. Living.
Place 2. Sadhana which automatically gets you there as a byproduct.
As far as I know only these two places will make things like this person discusses common, as in common sense.
So I have answered my question but not quite.
After writing these words it would seem these folks can be inspirational or perhaps get people to think about possibilities and this could lead people to want to do something about it and maybe find a Sadhana path like AYP.
Another possible outcome could be that people just decide to do nothing in this case they will have to live in order to understand, whereas they could have been practicing AYP and having a better life.
Yes all will get there and beyond what I know or even can consider at this juncture but why not do it in this lifetime?
Speakers and book writers like this can not get my vote, good for them that they have these understandings and live from the place they are expressing but unless you include a road map and ways and means for others to arrive as you have, then there just is not much value beyond getting people to consider possibilities un-thought of or perhaps to get those who are already close, at the same level or beyond to think oh yeah, um hmmm, yep he gets it but where is the help for those that do not?
Perhaps there express purpose is not to be of assistance to anyone because they do not on the the grand scale of things see any assistance to anyone being needed or even possible but just to unload there own pent up pressures and further confirm to themselves on the stage of agreement with themselves and others that they do indeed know by repeating what they feel inside? and earn a buck while doing so, in which case no further discussion is warranted.
How is this helpful to the ones seeking ways and means of skillful living and the answer is they are not; as these people seem not to remember or it is unknown to them, or even worse with some of these people Sadhana is considered un-needed.
I say worse because from there point of view it may be true that Spiritual Practices are not needed but they have managed to gather seekers and the punch line ends in a very bad joke. |
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Truth Seeker
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2016 : 12:06:47 PM
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Dear So-Hi
I don't know if you have a copy of the Power of Now, his first. Read pages 1-3 of the introduction only,, thats all, the rawness of his experience, before all the fame etc. To me it has always been one of the most beautiful things i have ever read. And confirmed for me, experiences which i had and never understood..
Love |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2016 : 1:09:57 PM
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Amazon previews do not cover that many pages and since I have made so much out of this with my posts it is only fare to buy the book and discuss this more so purchasing a Kindle version now and will read and then review some more.
The only reason I am doing this is because there are so many loving nice people here on AYP concerning this person and this particular book.
Besides that I can still be wrong and maybe this will pay back whatever inadvertent damage this does to his sales if only a little bit.
quote:
Originally posted by Truth Seeker
Dear So-Hi
I don't know if you have a copy of the Power of Now, his first. Read pages 1-3 of the introduction only,, thats all, the rawness of his experience, before all the fame etc. To me it has always been one of the most beautiful things i have ever read. And confirmed for me, experiences which i had and never understood..
Love
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2016 : 1:49:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kumar ul islam
eckhart i am sure has taken many to to the shore of the soul ,i myself have visited this shore many times in my life,leaving the shore is the hardest part knowing you need to leave behind all who taken you to its edge ,from eckhart tolle ,leo tolstoy,gandi ,and many others ,in this regard you also leave behind the sense of seperation you have ,the prejudices the loves and hates and anger .i think i have left the shore but returning at times to put my feet on dry land and once again departing with the ferryman talking with him, slowly being taken across to the other side and like siddhartha trying to listen to what the river is telling me the more i listen there is one word that repeats and its love ,i love eckhart he is neither right or wrong i would listen to him like i listen to any other human being we all have our narrartive ,some with more words some less but all as worthy of our ear without casting judement from our point of separation from them .love and blessings to all on this january morning in the year 2016
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Omsat
Belgium
267 Posts |
Posted - Jan 08 2016 : 2:06:24 PM
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So Hi..
Some teachers convey through many words.
Some teachers convey without any utterance at all.
Some teachers sometimes convey through words, sometimes through silence, sometimes through countless other ways. It depends on the audience as well as their talent and inclination for types of transmission channels. Some transmissions work well for some and not as well for others. Just as one husband may be perfect for his wife but not just as suitable for his neighbour woman.
There is more than one type of plugs. So also more than one type of sockets. One type fits well with its match and not with the other one. Unless one has an adaptor and can plug onto different sockets. Human beings may develop adaptor capacity through understanding, flexibility, empathy, compassion, receptivity etc.
Let us not fall into the limiting belief that what doesn't work for one will also not work for another. Each being true to oneself gives rise to the diversity and richness of life.
The display or not of the word is not the key factor in the transmission power of a teacher. Their presence, beingness has all the potentiality of electricity into it.
Certain types of practices have their place.
Meetings with talk that appeases the mind also, if it needs appeasing. Some duller mind finds appeasement through aliveness in sharings also  Restoring balance works from either side, depending on where we find ourselves.
Did you ever experience? After engaging completely, intensely, lengthily, which silence may occur so quietly..
It is no co-incidence some do well with a yin approach and others better with a yang approach. And some choose the approach they already have in excess within, bringing themselves even more out of balance. Here, your objections have a certain brightness into them. However, even here, transformation may happen and will be visible more strongly as the pull back occurs full force.
Living.. Yes..
We are talking now.. And living.. 
The larger the audience at reach, the larger the toolbox may be.
Styles and possibilities are a great vast countless.
PS: If I may make a joke..
It is not so difficult to see how the less talkative teacher may work better for you
There's a lot of silence in Eckhart's words. You may feel it when reading your newly purchased book. Let's pray he will spend your money well 
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Edited by - Omsat on Jan 08 2016 3:17:42 PM |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2016 : 11:13:29 AM
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Lol yes hope he spends it well as well. I am going to review the book in more detail on the books section of this site.
Just because a person has had an opening does not really make them a Guru or a teacher nor moral, nor truthful, nor does it make them worthy of adoration or undue respect in fact openings can create very shady and dangerous characters as they may abandon the very precepts of Yama and Niyama in favor of rationalization and situational ethics if they do not already have a stable grounded foundation.
I have seen this first hand and it is frightening the depths of corruption these peoples minds can become entangled with and worse yet they corrupt and cajole those around them as well.
History has recorded the deeds of people who had openings yet became corrupt I believe Adolph Hitler may very well have been a very, very extreme example of such a person as I have spoken to people who were present to hear him speak in person and more than one and all will tell you the same thing.
He was the most charismatic person they had ever met.
When I look at the history footage I see a barking mad raving animal with a deplorable presence and a hideous countenance and a message that was laughable to hear.
Yet people who were there tell you they are equally mystified what it was about him in person that was so appealing as later seeing the same footage they do not even recognize him as the same person.
They will tell you people loved him and hung on his every word and that they themselves were no different at the time.
Yes I have known many very old people, former Nazi's but not war criminals just people who were alive at the time and forced to serve their country but unlike the Unites States when we have a Military Draft they were threatened and told their families would be killed if they did not serve the Reich.
These people are now now in their 90's and I have known many more former victims of the Nazis' who survived the death camps mostly in my early and mid childhood and their loving treatment of me as a child will always shine in my mind as the most kind of people the world has ever presented me with.
Within the first few pages of this book there are seriously dangerous control statements made by the author concerning anyone who may disagree with his words, one would be wise to pay attention to them as they say much about the author.
More on that later. Keep an eye out if there is an interest.
Will begin that thread soon. |
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The strange case of Eckhart Tolle
