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reality11
USA
48 Posts |
 Posted - Oct 03 2014 : 10:19:14 PM
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http://www.aypsite.org/366.html
In this article, Yogani is saying that during meditation, the mantra should not be clearly enunciated or have a fixed repetition, otherwise it is considered clunky meditation. He said that normal good meditation will involve zoning out and daydreaming, and then returning to the mantra after a period of time.
That advice appears to be the opposite of what I have learned about meditation. I've learned that the goal of deep concentration meditation on an object, whether it be the breath or a mantra or an image, is to be so be extremely focused on only that object and redirecting your attention away from anything else. Having your attention diverted is a natural process, but it is a symptom of poor attention, and good meditators will not have that symptom as frequently.
So it confuses me that Yogani is saying that good meditation involves daydreaming... am I interpreting that article wrong? Am I supposed to be a lot more casual and lazy about saying the mantra in my head? Should I let my mind wander purposely, and occasionally return my attention back to the mantra? |
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Mykal K
Germany
267 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2014 : 05:35:40 AM
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quote:
So it confuses me that Yogani is saying that good meditation involves daydreaming... am I interpreting that article wrong? Am I supposed to be a lot more casual and lazy about saying the mantra in my head? Should I let my mind wander purposely, and occasionally return my attention back to the mantra?
Just easily favor the mantra. Easily would be very close to lazily  .
This is not the technique which requires intense concentration, that is why it is said to be "easily favoring". Be casual about it.
Just always have the easy intent to pick up the mantra..do not be zealous about it...sometimes you might not be able to do it without force, and then you are where you are... when you are able to easily pick up the mantra you do it.
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Oct 04 2014 : 10:24:49 AM
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Hi Reality,
Don't deliberately let your mind wander. The mind will wander of it's own accord. Simply follow the procedure of Deep Meditation which is to bring the mind gently back to the mantra each time you realize you are off it.
At first, you will find that the mind wanders onto thoughts, or sensations in the body, or sounds in the room or outside the room. After some time of practice you will find that you begin to lose the mantra into silence. When this happens, you simply follow that same procedure: When you realize you are no longer with the mantra, you pick up the mantra again. So it is the same process going all the way in to samadhi.
Christi |
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reality11
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2014 : 05:30:42 AM
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I see what you guys are saying now, thank you. Be gentle and easy with my attention, right? Note other thoughts and sensations and don't block them out, but bring my attention to the mantra. When my attention wanders, just bring it back to the mantra without any force or judgement.
I have a lot more questions, but I'm just going to try this for bit longer before asking anymore. I feel like perhaps those questions will be answered on their own through my own experiences if I just practice. Thanks again for the help.
I will just say that it's funny how every time I do meditation, I could absolutely swear that it's been 40 minutes so I open my eyes, only to realize that I ended my session prematurely and it's only been 15 minutes. Is this common for anyone else? That is some major time dilution because my biological clock is usually pretty good.. |
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1571 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2014 : 05:56:33 AM
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What is your "biological clock" but the count of your breath? As mind stills, breath slows, time stretches.
Sey |
Edited by - SeySorciere on Oct 05 2014 05:57:23 AM |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Oct 05 2014 : 12:36:14 PM
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I love the analogy of watching clouds: thoughts in the mind are just clouds passing in the sky. Notice them, and let them move on and dissipate.
When I first started with the mantra, I was too rigid and patterned with it. Just go with the flow. Also, consider that at these early stages, you care just conditioning yourself to be able to have a stronger and more distinct focus of awareness later on.
In fact, from my research it seems that along the path of yoga, true "meditation" is only practiced after one masters the initial concentration ability stage. Only now after 18 months (and some flip-flopping between mantra and breath-focus) do I feel as if I've reached a point where I may be close to actual "meditation". My mind and body are finally reaching the point where they become still enough to do so.
This selection from SwamiJ.com is what I refer to:
"Attention
The process of Attention moving inward moves through stages:
1. Dharana, or concentration: The effort to repeatedly bring the attention to that one point of focus, while learning to remain undisturbed by the activities of the world, the sensations of the body (though this exploration is a preliminary practice), and the many other streams of the mind (though these are also explored in the purifying process).
2. Dhyana, or meditation: When the attention remains on that one point of focus for a sustained period of time, or said differently, when the same object repeatedly arises in attention, without other intervening thoughts capturing attention, this is called meditation.
3. Samadhi, or absorption: With concentration (dharana) and meditation (dhyana), there are three things: 1) observer, 2) process of observing, and 3) object that is being observed. With deep absorption, or samadhi, it is as if these three collapse into only one, the object. It is as if there is no longer an observer and a process of observing; there is only the object of observation. The three have merged into one, unbroken experience."
http://www.swamij.com/stepsmeditation.htm |
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reality11
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2014 : 4:20:32 PM
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I'm not sure where to go from here now. I've started to regularly do two 25min sessions, 5min of spinal breathing and 20min of mantra meditation. But during the mantra meditation last night, near the end I couldn't stop my eyes from tensing up. When I was finished with the meditation, my eye muscles were very sore from the tensing up and it was uncomfortable. I tried meditating again this morning and I just had a hard time relaxing my eyes so I cut the meditation short.
I don't think this can be considered overload though, right? This is just a physical thing where, for some reason, my brain really wanted my eyes to tense up...
I want to keep meditating and making progress though. How can I do so? |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2014 : 5:12:08 PM
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If you eyes are tensing up just be with them. Put your awareness on the area and just be with it. Don't judge it, don't worry about it just be with. Once the energy releases go back to the mantra.
Hope this helps,
Tom |
Edited by - jonesboy on Oct 06 2014 5:13:15 PM |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4514 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2014 : 5:14:12 PM
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Hi Reality,
You could be straining too hard, in which case just try to relax a bit. Or it could be energetic overload causing the tension. Either way, if you find it easier to meditate for 15 mins then try that for a while and see how it goes.
christi |
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reality11
USA
48 Posts |
Posted - Oct 06 2014 : 11:19:29 PM
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I think I was just straining my eyes unknowingly. I just finished a session and I did my best to be aware of any strain on my eyes and to keep that area relaxed, and I ended the session less tension/pain than before. It was still there.. but not as bad as last time.
I started feeling tingling sensations in my forehead. As I approached the 16min mark or so, I started getting very impatient and wanting the session to come to an end but I pushed through it. Before that mark, my head was feeling very strange.. just... like I'm floating? Like there's pressure in my head? I don't know how to explain. But after the 16 min mark that feeling went away and all I felt was impatience, frustration, and then doubt that this whole thing is just a sham. But the fact that I had this experience means things are happening, right?
Christi, may I ask you something? I did a search on some old posts about buddhism and came across some of yours. I'd like to ask you if there is any major difference in breath meditation in buddhism compared to deep meditation? From what I know, it seems that the only difference is the object to focus on, (breath vs mantra). The technique of gently redirecting your attention back onto the object is the same. Is there something fundamentally different about these two practices, aside from the choice of object? |
Edited by - reality11 on Oct 06 2014 11:43:18 PM |
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question on the undersensitive article
