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auburn1
Ireland
6 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 30 2014 : 07:07:48 AM
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After two years or so I've given up on pranayama as something that can be beneficial to and enhance my yoga practice and I have reverted to meditation alone.
I studied Yogani's literature on pranayama closely and anticipated some move forward in my practice but after attempting various adaptions regarding time, frequency, visualisation etc (when the basic teaching was problematic) feel it not something for me.
Basically the problem was twofold. Having done deep meditation for a year, I started pranayama and found I could go deeper into meditation but I would exit before my allocated time (15 minutes) in a very uncomfortable way with feelings of agitation.
This did resolve somewhat but I did feel subsequently that after pranayama I brought a slight tension to my meditation reducing its effectiveness which I noticed in my day to day activities. I did chop and change things to try and alleviate issues and was of the general view time would resolve the matter. I now know this is not the case.
Due to the broad benefits of pranayama I would like to continue the practice in some way but it would appear it needs to be separated from my meditation. Yogani does not recommend this if I recall correctly but I would appreciate any advice or insight anyone here has on the matter. |
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Mykal K
Germany
267 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2014 : 08:24:22 AM
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| Before introducing the mantra in DM, do you take a minute or two to just observe the thoughts? |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2014 : 08:49:04 AM
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Yogini always concludes that the guru is in you, so do what you must if you are so inclined.
Pranayama is a vital limb which should not be shelved altogether. As for my sitting practice, I only do 5 minutes worth to "jump start" the engine, tracing the spinal nerve a few times and then a left & right chin pump jalandhara and BOOM I'm following the mantra. Pranayama practice finds pockets of time throughout my day, while driving, reading, or making supper. It instantly places attention on how balanced I am space and time, both calms and excites my being (another lovely paradox!). Asanas need pranayama to be effective, and whenevèr I am inclined to 'stoke my bliss fire', pranayama is the bellows for the job. But most likely you know and practice this already.
Change is ever present. What doesn't work well today may be fantastic next week. Yoga is playful in that way! |
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auburn1
Ireland
6 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2014 : 6:27:42 PM
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Many thanks for your replies.
Yes, Mykal K, I did generally leave a bit of time before going into DM. I also for a short period went directly into meditation to identify if this may resolve some of the issues.
Dogboy, if you don't mind could you explain what you mean by then a left & right chin pump jalandhara .
Regards. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Jul 30 2014 : 9:33:15 PM
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| Of course. Yogini's lesson for chin pump jalahara in in the left side menu on this page. It's a dynamic kumbaca pranayama that has you swirling your head first to the left, and then to the right. I love it not only because it's effective in "priming the pump", but also is similar to a neck exercise I'm required to do for a cervical spine issue I'm working to eliminate. |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2014 : 08:59:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mykal K
Before introducing the mantra in DM, do you take a minute or two to just observe the thoughts?
Auburn, the chin pump draws prana up the spinal axis.
I too am sensitive to pranayama, as are many others. Self pace accordingly. Generally, I do 30 seconds to 3 minutes of SPB these days. You might consider experimenting with short durations of SPB.
I believe some SPB to be essential for "priming" the prana. It is a mechanical process after all. |
Edited by - tonightsthenight on Jul 31 2014 09:24:10 AM |
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auburn1
Ireland
6 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2014 : 09:17:11 AM
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| Many thanks for your replies. Anyone aware of issues around undertaking SPB at a different time to DM? |
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AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2014 : 3:25:26 PM
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| Hi Auburn, yes this is brought up many times throughout the lessons. Deep meditation is always done right after spinal breathing pranayama. Lesson 50 is one place that explains the reason. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2014 : 4:13:07 PM
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| Are you talking about breathing outside of meditation practice? |
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auburn1
Ireland
6 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2014 : 6:37:25 PM
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| Yes Dogboy. That is what I mean. For example I do my meditation morning and evening and perhaps in early afternoon I could do pranayama. |
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Dogboy
USA
2294 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2014 : 9:06:38 PM
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I don't see why not, although start slowly and increase over time to test your sensitivity.  |
Edited by - Dogboy on Aug 01 2014 11:32:03 PM |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2014 : 11:14:15 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by auburn1
Yes Dogboy. That is what I mean. For example I do my meditation morning and evening and perhaps in early afternoon I could do pranayama.
No offense,but what's the point of doing that?
Pranayama activates prana and draws it up the central channel so that we can sit in profound, blissful silence. Yoga practices are meant to be done in succession.
If you are oversensative, a little goes a long way. so do a little instead of a lot.
try 30 seconds pranayama and 5 minutes DM, once a day and go from there. |
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auburn1
Ireland
6 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2014 : 7:11:28 PM
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| Many thanks for replies. However I do 20 minutes DM am and pm so no point changing that I would think. Issues is only regarding pranayama and its negative impact on my DM. Anyone aware if SBP is effective if not followed on by DM? |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Aug 03 2014 : 07:08:48 AM
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Hi auburn1,
SBP is quite effective, also as a standalone practice, but it has not been practiced in that way neiher from where it originates, which is kriya yoga, nor in AYP.
Still if you practice SBP and afterwards do nothing, the pranic and apanic currents will merge and you enter a breathless state of nomind, where the peace and bliss starts to pour through. But 5 mins will not do much ;)
What could be a better approach, is to try out ANB (alternate nostril breathing) before DM. It is a pretty smooth practice, can be practiced solo aswell, but its better to keep it simple with two identical sessions than having a third round inbetween.
Another reason against solo sbp would be, whatever spiritual practice you do, the flow of life will change accordingly. Starting with DM in the morning, you will have one type of lifeflow. Then doing a SBP round and your lifeflow will change to another type. Then doing a DM session in the evening and again he flow will change. Over time this can get quite instable and then it may happen, that you have to skip a DM session or introduce other elements to SBP and so the stable longterm practice slowly but surely starts to drift off into new experiments and other things... :P One can not hold it together with the intention and mind, after some time the new flows will change everything.
Therefor better try to keep it one series of techniques repeated 1-3 times per day, instead of one time this, the other this.
Still it would be good to test and see yourself what happens, perhaps it may work out :)
Peace and happy practice :)
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Aug 03 2014 : 2:38:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by auburn1
Many thanks for replies. However I do 20 minutes DM am and pm so no point changing that I would think. Issues is only regarding pranayama and its negative impact on my DM. Anyone aware if SBP is effective if not followed on by DM?
Hey auburn, here at ayp we do sbp followed by DM. There is a method to the madness !
I wouldn't suggest SPB as a standalone practice and I don't think I'm alone. You can eliminate SPB, but again, I suggest shortening the practice times.
DM twice a day at 20 minutes is quite a lot if you are oversensitive. Practices are meant to be done in succession for maximum benefit with least amount of risk. |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2014 : 12:23:12 AM
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| if you can hear omkar loudly and reach the pulseless state without kriya all power to u bro |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - Aug 06 2014 : 9:56:21 PM
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Hi auburn1,
If cutting back on pranayama hasn't helped, it's okay to just meditate. Lots of people do. From my understanding, it's best to keep a stable meditation practice than to reduce to add a few cycles or minutes of pranayama. |
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Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Aug 07 2014 : 05:44:17 AM
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| Three weeks ago I reduced my practice to only 10' DM, no SBP. Feel better than ever. But it was not easy to accept to skip pranayama and - even worse - to reduce asana. |
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auburn1
Ireland
6 Posts |
Posted - Aug 08 2014 : 02:49:56 AM
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| Many thanks for your help and observations. I'll continue with DM and leave SPB out of my practice for a year or so before having another look at it. Kind regards. |
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Blanche
USA
873 Posts |
Posted - Aug 24 2014 : 08:46:45 AM
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Hi auburn1,
Your experiences leading you to remove spinal breathing pranayama from practice must be frustrating. Spinal breathing seems to mess things up. There are a couple of options you might want to consider.
First of all, you are right to keep up your meditation practice. As Yogani likes to quote, Jesus said: "Seek first the kingdom of heaven and all the rest will be added. " Cultivating inner silence is the best way to deal with this difficulty with spinal breathing.
Second, do not give up on spinal breathing. Difficulty with a new technique is not something unusual or necessarily bad. Adding a new technique ofter changes the practice. You have a well-balanced practice, then you add a new technique, and suddenly things are not going the same way. Or they are not going at all. Does it mean that the new technique does not work? I would say that it works too much1 It takes time to master and integrate a new technique, and the practice will have to restructure to achieve a new balance. Everyone goes through this process. Keep in mind that a difficulty is not necessarily a hindrance. A difficulty is also a challenge and a chance to improve. In a way, a difficulty is a signal that you need to work at a certain practice. You will discover that you make a lot of progress when you deal with an obstacle.
You make an insightful observation that, when you add spinal breathing, you finish the meditation early and you feel agitated. It seems to me that spinal breathing brings up a lot of energy for you, and this energy runs a bit wild, unbalancing your deep meditation. This would suggest that you may want to work to increase and control your energy level. A regular practice of asanas and pranayama, outside of your meditation time, will increase the energy level, and give you a chance to become more aware of the energy flow. Further, you will become better at regulating this energy. Asanas and pranayama (such us complete breathing, alternative nostril breathing, etc.) will promote purifications and make the spinal breathing go more smoothly. Spinal breathing before meditation nurtures your deep meditation, it makes it more effective. But spinal breathing in any other part of the day will still bring up energy and promote purifications. Yoga is an experimental system, each of us does multiple experiments and variations to find out how things work. We are all different!
When it comes to a new technique, the middle path is a good approach: You do not add too much, and you do not eliminate. What if you try to do one cycle of spinal breathing before meditation? If this works, after some weeks or months, add another cycle, and so on. If one cycle of spinal breathing is too much before meditation, work at pranayama at some other time during the day, preferably before your meditation, so you could still "harvest" some benefits during your sitting practice.
I have practiced yoga for many years, and I got to a point where my meditation was constantly blissful, but I was making no progress. I tried different things, but nothing worked until I realized that the state of bliss was the obstacle! I was looking for it. Just practicing the technique without focusing on the experience brought my meditation to a new level. Is it any chance that you are attached to the blissful state of mediation? Is spinal breathing taking this positive experience away from you? Yoga texts mention frequently the problem of getting attached to various experiences encountered during meditation. They are all "scenery." Enjoy them, and move on!
As about pranayama, it is only the 4th limb of yoga, while meditation is the 7th! For many years I was wondering: Does it mean that pranayama doesn't work as well as meditation? Does Buddhist meditation really work, since it focuses on breathing? Imagine my surprise when I discovered that after 10 minutes of spinal breathing I find myself in deep meditation. I do not attempt meditation during spinal breathing. It just happens. If I get this intense meditation experience with 10 minutes of spinal breathing without any other instructions or practice, imagine what someone else gets from a systematic Buddhist meditation. I am convinced now that Buddhist meditation works and "goes to the same destination" as yoga meditation. I do stick to deep meditation myself. Back to the subject, spinal breathing is a powerful technique, well worth the attention.
As Yogani says, practice wisely and enjoy!
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Edited by - Blanche on Aug 26 2014 10:25:46 PM |
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ranigupta
India
2 Posts |
Posted - Dec 19 2014 : 01:53:52 AM
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| Don't either skip pranayama or separate from other practices because it is very important. You loose the benefit of paranayama if you skip it. |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2015 : 4:18:46 PM
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| its important to meditate after pranayama, but if you're practising more than once a day i think tis okay to just meditate at your shorter practices. |
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Removing Pranayama from practice
