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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
 Posted - May 09 2014 : 11:42:10 AM
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I know Yogani prefers anonymity, but I was wondering if there is any info about where he learned these techniques? A specific person, book, teacher, school, tradition, etc.? I'm curious where his unique synthesis of the information and practices was derived from.
I'm not looking for personal details, but I am curious as to the source of the authority from which he speaks. I know "the guru is within", but one needs directions to get to that guru in the first place :)
Also, is it safe to assume that the lessons are all being written from direct experience? Or is there a mix between direct experience and passing along learned information?
Asking from the perspective of — and on behalf of other — under-sensitive meditator(s) :) |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2014 : 1:03:18 PM
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I think you can safely assume a mix of experience and teachers.
AYP derives from a variety of traditions, that's pretty clear. But that's not exceptional in yoga. There's been mixing and matching since the dawn of sadhana.
The source of authority is never anything but the inner teacher. We are all just expressing that wisdom, and yes, some more than others ;) |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - May 09 2014 : 2:33:27 PM
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Thanks TTN.
To clarify my post a bit, not trying to challenge Yogani's authority, just curious about the origins & sources. I enjoy digging in to the background of things in depth, and I am over-analytical as well! I was recently listening to some lectures from a Gnostic tradition website (I have been digging into info on pranayama as of late). The lecturer was obviously well-versed in the topics he was speaking on, yet I kept coming back to the question: from experience or books? he made many claims, some overlapping with other traditions, others wild and unsubstantiated.
The references to the "inner teacher" are quite compelling, however in my shoes I've no experience of anything like that. At best I've experienced some curious physical responses that align with the lessons, but nothing like an inner teacher or guru within. So, I ask questions. I follow the practices, but I ask questions.
I was drawn to yoga-meditation in general and AYP in particular for the promise of direct experience. I am OK with the concept that some may have an easier go of this than others. But while steadfastly maintain the practices over time with little significant results (that I am aware of), I start to ask the question: why? It's a dangerous word, I know :)
I have a tough time balancing daily life with twice-daily practices and on top of that reading up on AYP and other yoga books and articles, yet many teachers seem to have reached and mastered all the nook and crannies of every esoteric discipline, and on top of it write books and entire websites. It's quite impressive, but I wonder at times: have all of these things been experienced directly, or is some of it being passed along?
Hope that helps to clarify my perspective a bit. |
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Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 06:58:32 AM
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Also I would assume Yogani has read most or all of the AYP booklist of hundreds of books!
http://www.aypsite.org/booklist.html
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Just a note on what "authority" he speaks from:
There are hundreds of religions, and it is my belief that most of them have enlightened at least one person. Many of those religions claim to be the only "true" path. Well, maybe it was for that one person.
Enlightenment doesn't guarantee you will know everything about everyone.
So ultimately it is up to the individual to find his/her own best path.
Finding inner silence through meditation connects us with our inner guru to accomplish that.
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 08:51:28 AM
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I just discovered that book list via Shanti's posts, thank you. Again this addresses my scholarly vs. direct experience question.
Intellectually I understand the "inner guru" concept (I think…), but for those of us with no direct experience of that, it seems incomplete and vague.
For those of you out there with positively reinforcing results after a nominal amount of time and effort, I'm sure these questions seem pointless. But there is quite a bit of time, effort and faith required for those of us who have not yet had these experiences. Faith and direct experience seem contradictory in my view.
It just struck me the other day that there was very little background as to why these specific techniques, where they came from, etc. There are so many systems of yoga out there, all claiming to be The One. But something about Yogani's approach resonated with me, even more so now that I expanded my studies and look into other books and systems — they all seem needlessly weighted down with baggage and obscurity. There's little chance I might have even put any of those into actual practice.
So, I like what AYP offers, I'm just curious to learn more. Outside twice-daily sits (with no inner guru at present), there's little else I can do but read and ask questions :)
Thanks. |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 11:27:50 AM
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Hi Yogaman,
I’m still fairly new to AYP and I can vouch that sooner or later you'll get direct experience. I had similar questions like you in the beginning; spent hours reading spiritual books, websites. I look at the lessons this way- Yogani has spent years learning different techniques, picked out the best and presented in a platter. I will enjoy the platter and not worry where it came from.
Inner Silence dawned on me soon after starting practices (I went through an initially awakening, so this could be the reason), however I had no energy experience. I would read about the experiences of people and question why I wasn’t having them. I’ve learnt to be patient, to let go of expectations. Even if I don’t see results- I would much rather spend 30 mins a day practicing than wasting my time watching TV. It’s been over a year and a half and I’m slowly getting some energy experience. My moments of clarity have been the times when I’m not thinking about practices. Like Yogani says do your practices and live in the world (paraphrasing) .
I don’t want this to be all about me but just wanted to reassure that sooner or later you will see results. Till then, you may have to spend hours reading different text till your thirst for knowledge is quenched. Keep doing your practices  .
P.S. I enjoy reading your Journal 
Love,
Sunyata
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 11:38:39 AM
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Hi Yogaman, not trying to be obtuse in my post above. I certainly see your point.
The inner teacher is nothing more then your real identity.
The good news is that practice brings us closer to who we are, and freedom :)
Neither Yogani or another will be able to satisfy the minds desire for solidity because concreteness does not exist. The only true thing is the Self, practice to find the Self and then you will have no questions at all!
So my answer to your question: practice regularly. Hope this helps:) |
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kami
USA
921 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 12:02:36 PM
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Hi Yogaman,
What brought you here? Not just AYP but all of this? What makes you go down a particular path overdriving other choices? The inner guru isn't that mysterious actually. It is the small voice, the gut sense of being drawn to something, of knowing it is the thing to do.. The only real challenge is to differentiate this voice from the mind chatter we are used to and actions we perform out of conditioning. We all have it; just a matter of acknowledging it. Two cents.
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 4:14:46 PM
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One pattern which I've found particularly interesting within myself is that, whenever I'm trying to get closer to Yogani--usually by trying to extract details via e-mail--it inevitably stems from some dissatisfaction in my personal life. Recently, I sent him a long-winded e-mail begging for proof of an eternal soul, and like clockwork, he said: just let it go, keep practicing, and think about global awakening, rather than your ego strategy. He also said: Don't blame me if it doesn't all turn out the way you might want. LMAO!! That was the sentence that really got me. I needed that--big time. That gets a gut-busting chuckle out of me everytime I think about it.
But, to speak more to the point of Yogaman's inquiry, I think the solution may be quite simple. Go out and meet some people in the flesh. People who are chasing what you're chasing. Attending a few AYP retreats has been pretty awesome for me to quench that thirst. I'm also involved in the local spiritual scene, and I've been fortunate enough to vibe with some close friends and continue my practices with them. Nothing like face-to-face contact. Or, as Bruce Springsteen sang, "Just a little of that human touch." 
One thing's for sure--no amount of knowledge regarding Yogani's credentials (or any other teacher's resume) will replace that direct experience we're seeking. The only way to achieve that is to live life fully--in our own bodies, using our unique personalities as the instruments of realization.
I remain greedy for divinity. I'm tortured by that desire. All comes from desire. To know. To experience. To learn. To transcend. Since I started AYP several years ago, life's gotten a little bit better--certainly. The only way I can attest to that improvement is because of the flow of my daily life...work, play, friends, family, blah blah blah. Very simple.
Godspeed, and just jump in and start swimming. That is the way. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 6:50:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sunyata
Hi Yogaman,
I’m still fairly new to AYP and I can vouch that sooner or later you'll get direct experience. I had similar questions like you in the beginning; spent hours reading spiritual books, websites. I look at the lessons this way- Yogani has spent years learning different techniques, picked out the best and presented in a platter. I will enjoy the platter and not worry where it came from.
Inner Silence dawned on me soon after starting practices (I went through an initially awakening, so this could be the reason), however I had no energy experience. I would read about the experiences of people and question why I wasn’t having them. I’ve learnt to be patient, to let go of expectations. Even if I don’t see results- I would much rather spend 30 mins a day practicing than wasting my time watching TV. It’s been over a year and a half and I’m slowly getting some energy experience. My moments of clarity have been the times when I’m not thinking about practices. Like Yogani says do your practices and live in the world (paraphrasing).
I don’t want this to be all about me but just wanted to reassure that sooner or later you will see results. Till then, you may have to spend hours reading different text till your thirst for knowledge is quenched. Keep doing your practices .
P.S. I enjoy reading your Journal
Love,
Sunyata
Thank you for the thoughts and journey, very much welcomed. I guess my post did veer a bit into "not much happening", but I do also find the general historical origins of all of this very interesting. Looking over another's "map" intrigues me.
When I was a kid, I took apart all my mechanical and electronic toys to see how they worked. If that sheds some light on my interest here :) |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 6:55:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kami
Hi Yogaman,
What brought you here? Not just AYP but all of this? What makes you go down a particular path overdriving other choices? The inner guru isn't that mysterious actually. It is the small voice, the gut sense of being drawn to something, of knowing it is the thing to do.. The only real challenge is to differentiate this voice from the mind chatter we are used to and actions we perform out of conditioning. We all have it; just a matter of acknowledging it. Two cents.
Thanks Kami. I've always had an interest in (or at least a curiosity about and fascination with) yoga, meditation and kundalini. Even if I knew very little about it all. As others here have mentioned, and I've mentioned before, AYP somehow was "right" for me. I could just tell. It took some time to get past some hang-ups to get started, but I am glad I did. I have gone too long not giving this a fair go of it. And I do enjoy the practice and the structure it adds to my life.
I'm the kid who asked why the sky was blue, and have never stopped asking questions :) |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 7:07:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
One pattern which I've found particularly interesting within myself is that, whenever I'm trying to get closer to Yogani--usually by trying to extract details via e-mail--it inevitably stems from some dissatisfaction in my personal life. Recently, I sent him a long-winded e-mail begging for proof of an eternal soul, and like clockwork, he said: just let it go, keep practicing, and think about global awakening, rather than your ego strategy. He also said: Don't blame me if it doesn't all turn out the way you might want. LMAO!! That was the sentence that really got me. I needed that--big time. That gets a gut-busting chuckle out of me everytime I think about it.
But, to speak more to the point of Yogaman's inquiry, I think the solution may be quite simple. Go out and meet some people in the flesh. People who are chasing what you're chasing. Attending a few AYP retreats has been pretty awesome for me to quench that thirst. I'm also involved in the local spiritual scene, and I've been fortunate enough to vibe with some close friends and continue my practices with them. Nothing like face-to-face contact. Or, as Bruce Springsteen sang, "Just a little of that human touch."
One thing's for sure--no amount of knowledge regarding Yogani's credentials (or any other teacher's resume) will replace that direct experience we're seeking. The only way to achieve that is to live life fully--in our own bodies, using our unique personalities as the instruments of realization.
I remain greedy for divinity. I'm tortured by that desire. All comes from desire. To know. To experience. To learn. To transcend. Since I started AYP several years ago, life's gotten a little bit better--certainly. The only way I can attest to that improvement is because of the flow of my daily life...work, play, friends, family, blah blah blah. Very simple.
Godspeed, and just jump in and start swimming. That is the way.
Thanks BT. I wasn't so much checking Yogani's resumè as I was trying to satisfy some intellectual curiosity. I'm definitely digging into the practice. But at times the question arises for me "Why AYP?" Meditation is the one thing in my life now that I spend the most of my time on besides work. It struck me that the techniques are very much just "there". I stumbled across an older thread where Yogani was looking for AYP spiritual science curriculum added to a university. That got me thinking too. No university is going to accept the inner guru as an adjunct professor :)
I mostly just have a lot of questions and not as much direct experience to back it up. After 18+'months on the journey, along with a local friend who is equally devoted if not as able to put as much time in as me, we both still have a lot of questions. AYP. Is obviously a superb resource for those for who it works easily, but for the less sensitive meditators, well I guess we just need a bit more reassurance at times to fuel the bhakti.
I don't need to "get under the hood", but I do want to feel the engine surge when I step on the accelerator.
Thank you. |
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pkj
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 7:35:50 PM
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Hi Yogaman
It is normal to have these kind of questions as intellect is always questioning why why. Because of this questioning we started on the journey. This is also one part of yoga where you are trying to get the answers. Now as someone said intellect can take you so far. Basically we are using intellect to go beyond the intellect. It is Razor's edge. So eventually as some people have said answers will come from within. Nothing can replace personnel experience and i think surrendering and let go without expectations can help in finding the answers. we are On the path to get something on the same time with no expectations it is a fine balance and contradiction as well. One thing as you can keep on doing these practices sometimes you will get some results unannounced. |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 8:50:02 PM
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Hi Yogaman,
I have been reading your journal; it seems to me that you are having direct experience. Maybe your mind just is discounting it? ( my mind does that too!)
I remember a thread where you discussed a pulse in the crotch and just dismissed it. I dismissed that as well, and you know what? I was wrong!!! |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 9:00:03 PM
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I think you're on the cusp of setting off undulations of seismic proportions. Your questions stem from your bhakti, and that will rocket you into the next dimension. If there were such a thing as spiritual police, I would report you to them so you would be arrested because you are dangerous with all your meddling. Can't you just watch some more sitcoms and pick up some other mind-numbing habits? How dare you inquire and endeavor to find answers to these profound questions!?   |
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Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 9:14:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
I remember a thread where you discussed a pulse in the crotch and just dismissed it. I dismissed that as well, and you know what? I was wrong!!!
LMAO. Now that's quality humor. |
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lalow33
USA
966 Posts |
Posted - May 10 2014 : 10:17:43 PM
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| Oh Bodhi, you are so bad. I know you know what I mean! Dismissing a chakra pulsation, thinking it's an artery over and over until you know it's not just an artery. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2014 : 10:56:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lalow33
Hi Yogaman,
I have been reading your journal; it seems to me that you are having direct experience. Maybe your mind just is discounting it? ( my mind does that too!)
I remember a thread where you discussed a pulse in the crotch and just dismissed it. I dismissed that as well, and you know what? I was wrong!!!
Indeed, I don't want to sound like I'm having zero experiences. I've had enough stuff happen even before I read about it in the lessons to keep my bhakti fueled. My rule of thumb is basically that I want to have direct experiences that will convince me to convince my brother to start meditating. He is open-minded and slightly interested, but busy and like me, a questioner. Once I can unequivocally tell him, from my direct experience, "yes, it's worth the effort", I'll still be yearning for more.
At present, I can't tell him that. It's worth it for me, but as many point out, these benefits can be subtle. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2014 : 10:57:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by pkj
Hi Yogaman
It is normal to have these kind of questions as intellect is always questioning why why. Because of this questioning we started on the journey. This is also one part of yoga where you are trying to get the answers. Now as someone said intellect can take you so far. Basically we are using intellect to go beyond the intellect. It is Razor's edge. So eventually as some people have said answers will come from within. Nothing can replace personnel experience and i think surrendering and let go without expectations can help in finding the answers. we are On the path to get something on the same time with no expectations it is a fine balance and contradiction as well. One thing as you can keep on doing these practices sometimes you will get some results unannounced.
I'm fine with following the path, I'm just curious where the guy who gave me directions got his map from :) |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2014 : 10:58:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bodhi Tree
I think you're on the cusp of setting off undulations of seismic proportions. Your questions stem from your bhakti, and that will rocket you into the next dimension. If there were such a thing as spiritual police, I would report you to them so you would be arrested because you are dangerous with all your meddling. Can't you just watch some more sitcoms and pick up some other mind-numbing habits? How dare you inquire and endeavor to find answers to these profound questions!?
A good (and much-needed) belly laugh from this BT! |
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Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2014 : 2:39:40 PM
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I've been here 10 times, and didn't get "Yogani's Yogani" until now! 
quote from Yogaman,
"Faith and direct experience seem contradictory in my view. "
Yes they are to the mind, because the mind wants to have a REASON to have faith, and those two should not be mixed.
Faith is a powerful tool that doesn't come from the outside; you have to develop it inside, by choice.
This tool is created by a DECISION to love and trust something outside yourself.
It is made more powerful by devotion and practice. None of this has a reason; it is practiced because you decided to practice it, and strengthened because you decided to practice it. It is a means of training love to flow, and the effects it creates are incredible.
If you cultivate an intense love feeling for God every day,
and when worries arise, say God will take care of it and let it go, your life will change for the better in a short time. (Of course you take action if you can, before letting it go).
quote:
".... There are so many systems of yoga out there, all claiming to be The One. But something about Yogani's approach resonated with me"
This IS your inner guru communicating with you. Most people have this resonation, don't know why, and never develop it any more. All that is necessary is inner silence to develop it more.
Best of luck. |
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SwamiX
USA
35 Posts |
Posted - May 11 2014 : 9:01:25 PM
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I don't think it's terribly mysterious, really. I would wager, like many of us, he took TM in the late 60s early 70s. DM is TM with a universal mantra. If you ever get "checked" at a TM center, the instructions are pretty much identical.
Then some variant of SRF, Kriya yoga. The "R&D" period he talks about was, I imagine, his attempt to combine the two in a way that was fruitful and sustainable. This led, over the years, to the current AYP approach.
In the interview with the woman from Hawaii, he mentions discovering that both paths he was on had "half the answer" - meaning that you needed both inner silence (DM) and conductivity (Kriya) to, as he says, create "stillness in action".
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2014 : 02:08:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Etherfish
I've been here 10 times, and didn't get "Yogani's Yogani" until now!
quote from Yogaman,
"Faith and direct experience seem contradictory in my view. "
Yes they are to the mind, because the mind wants to have a REASON to have faith, and those two should not be mixed.
Faith is a powerful tool that doesn't come from the outside; you have to develop it inside, by choice.
This tool is created by a DECISION to love and trust something outside yourself.
It is made more powerful by devotion and practice. None of this has a reason; it is practiced because you decided to practice it, and strengthened because you decided to practice it. It is a means of training love to flow, and the effects it creates are incredible.
If you cultivate an intense love feeling for God every day,
and when worries arise, say God will take care of it and let it go, your life will change for the better in a short time. (Of course you take action if you can, before letting it go).
quote:
".... There are so many systems of yoga out there, all claiming to be The One. But something about Yogani's approach resonated with me"
This IS your inner guru communicating with you. Most people have this resonation, don't know why, and never develop it any more. All that is necessary is inner silence to develop it more.
Best of luck.
Good stuff, thank you Etherfish! |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - May 12 2014 : 02:12:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by SwamiX
I don't think it's terribly mysterious, really. I would wager, like many of us, he took TM in the late 60s early 70s. DM is TM with a universal mantra. If you ever get "checked" at a TM center, the instructions are pretty much identical.
Then some variant of SRF, Kriya yoga. The "R&D" period he talks about was, I imagine, his attempt to combine the two in a way that was fruitful and sustainable. This led, over the years, to the current AYP approach.
In the interview with the woman from Hawaii, he mentions discovering that both paths he was on had "half the answer" - meaning that you needed both inner silence (DM) and conductivity (Kriya) to, as he says, create "stillness in action".
I've no experience with TM, and I seem to be much younger than you guys :)
I listened to those interviews a while back. Do not recall any details, nice catch. An answer such as yours was really all I was curious about. Something for further reading and some historical perspective. Thank you. |
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Yogani's Yogani?
