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andrew75
26 Posts |
 Posted - Mar 12 2014 : 4:47:23 PM
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Is there a level of development, for example a certain Samadhi state, at which one can remember memories from the spirit world, i.e. what someone does in between two lives while in a discarnate state?
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Mar 12 2014 : 9:36:00 PM
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According to the theory being in the womb and birth are so traumatic memory is wiped out.
Another theory I have read is that most are asleep and unaware.
My theory is that time is much longer there than here thus forgetfullness of prior forms worn and it is in a state of samyama as one reaches in deepest sadhana and is aware of during waking and sleeping states the pure stillness underlying all form and activity. Yogani's Samyama book describes this incredibly well.
Having experienced several near death experiences several times I can affirm that the one singular thread all gave in common is absolute stillness even in the face of having ones body hurled at the pavement from a motorcycle at 85 miles per hour. This same stillness is readily recognized in sadhana daily.
So it has been my experience that this stillness is the afterlife or between life or life itself and we are all in death now. Depends greatly on point of view and I would not completly rule out the later save for the morbidity of the idea and it is a distinction based solely on point of view as all, states are life.
Sorry maybe others get fantastic visions to report for me there is only stillness.
In this life I have been acutly aware of not this and not that, these are not my Mother, brothers sisters family cousins they have aready passed these wearing form are just actors on a stage this is not my body, these are not etc... and so on. Stillness has been everything, the stillness that underpins even time itself and with that knowing a sense of continuity that goes before and beyond this animal forms birth and will continue after its death.
Stillness.
Stillness carries everything one has ever been with it so it samyama is a good companion and the only enduring relationship, wise to cultivate awareness and perception of it. Wiser stil to live in it while active in daily life. |
Edited by - Experientialknowing on Mar 12 2014 9:46:37 PM |
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andrew75
26 Posts |
Posted - Mar 13 2014 : 9:26:14 PM
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Thank you Experientialknowing. There are very few opinions and your point of view is a very interesting one.
It is said that one perfectly recalls all past lives once he/she attains a deeper state of Savikalpa Samadhi so my question essentially stems from this assumption: I was hoping that in an even higher state of Samadhi one would recall not just physical lives, but also his/her existence between physical lives. |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2014 : 2:01:08 PM
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Thats just it Andrew75 there is not anything going on between lives other than returning to stillness, which is the state of non-duality.
To say we inhabit a body of light and emerge into an astral world based on our specific vibration with Astral parents brothers sisters skippy the dog etc.. to me is the stuff of fantasy, and make believe.
That a person would remember past lives lived or there is any value in doing so once one has cracked the magic nut is also the stuff of make believe, the self is always the self unborn, undying indivisible.
A better question is why does the self take on these forms of misidentification or encasement anyway? So far this witness has not observed one satisfactory answer from any religion creed or theory yet.
So far what this witness from a state of stillness has practiced Kriya which has led to even deeper identification with the stillness and the witness state of existence. That is all.
This witness has had many experiences including varying states of Samadhi to include the heart no longer beating and the extinguishment of the witness to the point where there is only stillness but these are experiences and as such do not last where as the stillness and the witness are ever-present the only variable is the clarity of self or stillness and the silence of idiot mind. The witness even observes idiot mind at play, what a perpetual motion machine that bundle of thoughts is. The witness however is still a state of duality whereas the the stillness is whole.
Regardless there is reincarnation going on but it occurs to me it is not in the way others like to talk about remembering being a girl or a warrior etc..
To me this is fantasy.
When I have remembered the future which is nothing more than the same variables and parameters repeating themselves while wearing a meat body and in doing so knowing the outline of how events within the parameters of preset life variables will play out like for example meeting what others would call a stranger and knowing she is my wife but does not remember.
For me it was oh so there you are I was wondering when this variable would play out, it seemed slightly overdue and having this knowing the ability to decide to engage this variable or leave it in it's current dormant state of potentiality. This is an exciting feeling as one is on the tip of the fulcrum and can choose to go one way or the other and there is a 3rd choice which is to stay in the center and just observe.
The interesting thing is that once a variable is activated the permutations of that variable are again set in motion like a cue ball striking billiards on the table.
The witness is the one striking the cue ball of potential variables the stillness is the table. The stillness is also the witness the balls and the table as well as the variable permutations set in motion.
There is no such thing as reincarnation. |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2014 : 4:03:08 PM
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Hi Andrew75, to be honest I don't know.
@EK, I see that know you believe only in what you experience. For me that means negating part of the reality, the experiences of others.
There are countless people who have had experiences that contradict your statement, particularly the Kriya masters (I supposed you believed them since you are a kriyavan). Many people have experienced the astral world, and higher beings who left their bodies. To be honest your statements perplex me. So when you saw Lahiri Mahasaya, are you saying that it was a fantasy? He has appeared to many people in his Light form.
Only very advanced people reach stillness when they die. Perhaps I didn't understand you well.
To choose one between many stories that I have heard first hand from thrustworthy people, there is someone who drowned at an early age and saw herself floating in the air while she could see her physical body. |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2014 : 7:41:08 PM
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Hi Willpower to say I only believe what I experience, is partly correct, I do not even believe in everything I myself experience but that in no way negates others realities.
In fact it does not control my daily shared life experience with others, on the highway at work or at home, these are the variables and this witness just works within them honoring the structure and folowing the rules that govern it.
This world is very real the one writing is not, yet is at the same time.
In fact I will even go so far as to say that due to the very impermenance of experience itself that it, which is subject to so many variables to exist or not it is itself unreal by virtue of it's very impermanance, when witnessed from the stand point of stillness.
Here is a happening, whoops it has now happened, where did it go? Ah the experience has passed it was real now it is not, well what is it now? It is a memory, but what happens when the one that experienced forgets? Then it is nothing. So how can something that is real become nothing?
The answer is found by cultivating silence and stillness via sadhana suiting ones make up, then asking who is experiencing, who has experienced, who has forgotten, who is living, who is dying, one then discovers it is friend mind who is the reincarnation artist, friend mind is just a bundle of thoughts subject to change impermenant and unreal.
Friend mind via the faculty of flawed memory offers delusion of it's own continuity to that which has none thusly leading to improper impressions, perceptions and ignorance which leads to belief.
When you awake from sound sleep where was mind? did it not cease to exist and on waking exist yet again? Who is wittnesing this?
Witness is also unreal but is less subject to change yet requires conciousness predicated on variables to exist be aware and operate the stillness however underpins all that alone is changeless that alone is real.
Sure Kriyavan and kriyban are as good a labels as any I suppose titles are ok for the sake of conversation and communication but never define one.
To say I believe in the lineage of masters or the stories or the system of stories and beliefs worked up around those I do not ever recall meeting or the stories from autobiography of a yogi about Sri Yukteswar visiting Paramahansa Yogananda and explaining to him the Astral afterlife etc after his passing.
Then the answer is no I do not. Had the reported experiences been eyewitness first hand then perhaps but without even that much, then no.
When I share that I have been visited by Lahiri Mahasaya both in waking states, even after over 20 years of being divorced from Kriya etc... during sadhana states and while sleeping, this is all true.
These are just experiences and like all experiences do not last.
I know what I experienced but it does not necessarily follow that I believe it to be reality.
No reality is something, This I is largly ignorant of and it is something else besides reportable experince which only leads to limited mind knowing and remembering.
Daily sadhana is helpful and fullfilling remembering is not.
Remembering and writing is purging the mind, but also is keeping it in motion.
I do not know if what you write about very advanced people is true or not.
quote:
Originally posted by Will Power
Hi Andrew75, to be honest I don't know.
@EK, I see that know you believe only in what you experience. For me that means negating part of the reality, the experiences of others.
There are countless people who have had experiences that contradict your statement, particularly the Kriya masters (I supposed you believed them since you are a kriyavan). Many people have experienced the astral world, and higher beings who left their bodies. To be honest your statements perplex me. So when you saw Lahiri Mahasaya, are you saying that it was a fantasy? He has appeared to many people in his Light form.
Only very advanced people reach stillness when they die. Perhaps I didn't understand you well.
To choose one between many stories that I have heard first hand from thrustworthy people, there is someone who drowned at an early age and saw herself floating in the air while she could see her physical body.
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2014 : 11:59:13 PM
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Interesting discussion.
I cannot be sure, but I sense a memory of the moments right before this life. With others and the Christ. We had forms. Not so different from here.
We are children, still growing. Advaita is not all there is beyond this lifetime, like there's only radiant ecstatic stillness. No no, there are many threads woven into a magnificent tapestry.
Now, in daily life, time is opening up its vast expanse and merging into eternity. Infinity. Time is an illusion.
Things are becoming clearer. Our true nature. There is the one consciousness but in different flavors. We are not all the same, there are superpersonalities.
Beyond the trivial vasanas, once we can see the vast expanse of life, there is stillness yes, but there is more than that. A personality that supercedes our earthly personality. A fully grown and mature version of ourselves. It already exists, just as we exist in this imperfect form. All is happening now.
Wow that sounds bananas.
But true, as far as I can tell. |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2014 : 07:18:42 AM
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Yep sounds bananas alright, but I get what your saying, it's tough making sure stuff doesn't get lost converting it to language.
Adviata whatever that word means is not something I subscribe to either and that is exactly my point about being considered a kriyavan ban wit or whatever, as Richard Back wrote in Illusions a nice fictional book about a superbeing coming to terms with it's own self.
Quote I'll take truth where I find it even if it is from Snoopy the dog, thank you very much.
Gee hope I got the quote right remember laughing the first time reading that section of the book.
I like what you wrote tonightsthenight which is why I am suspect of it's validity as my ego loves the idea of being special and seperate and even better a fully grown and mature version of ourselves to look forward to.
That does not mean I dismiss it though when and if the opportunity occurs to validate what you have written perhaps we will both get a chuckle.
I hope you are right because from what I am currently capable of perceiving stillness is pretty much it, before everything spools off from that point.
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2014 : 10:34:33 AM
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| i can remember scenes from that world. i was playing there before this one. i remember the the enviroment being somewhat the same . the trees and the landscape were similar. the things humans had built werent there. i was jumping around some woods near my house, there were puddles-when i focused on them goldfish would materialize. it was awesome. the next memory i have im riding into those same woods as a toddler inbetween two brothers on an atv. im deeply let down the woods were not the same as the way i had remembered them |
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tonightsthenight
846 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2014 : 11:47:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Experientialknowing
Yep sounds bananas alright, but I get what your saying, it's tough making sure stuff doesn't get lost converting it to language.
Adviata whatever that word means is not something I subscribe to either and that is exactly my point about being considered a kriyavan ban wit or whatever, as Richard Back wrote in Illusions a nice fictional book about a superbeing coming to terms with it's own self.
Quote I'll take truth where I find it even if it is from Snoopy the dog, thank you very much.
Gee hope I got the quote right remember laughing the first time reading that section of the book.
I like what you wrote tonightsthenight which is why I am suspect of it's validity as my ego loves the idea of being special and seperate and even better a fully grown and mature version of ourselves to look forward to.
That does not mean I dismiss it though when and if the opportunity occurs to validate what you have written perhaps we will both get a chuckle.
I hope you are right because from what I am currently capable of perceiving stillness is pretty much it, before everything spools off from that point.
Haha, nice post EK
Re the ego thing.. I'm not sure that getting caught up in ego is an issue because there is no ego for this super personality. Ego has been seen as illusion. But that doesn't mean one is exactly equal to the ultimate. People act like you can be the ultimate down here on earth but really? Not happening sorry. The ultimate is so far beyond our state of growth. We are baby gods at best, and that is only the self realized.
Now of course, this is only for the ears of people that have experienced the ultimate, because they know we are all one, there are no divisions, no hierarchies, nobody is ahead or behind. If one thinksthey are better or worse, its an illusion.
Ego is likely only a problem here, when we get confused by the way our mind perceives the world and then we take action in order to rectify the perceived problem, action which cuts us off from ourselves.
An aside, the mind is so funny. It takes this information about Now, reality, and converts it to a dualistic representation that we can u derstand but which bears little resemblance to the reality. Anybody watch true detective? That program asks some interesting questions. |
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andrew75
26 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2014 : 4:46:03 PM
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There is a well-known hypnotherapist called Michael Newton who wrote two popular books, Journey of Souls and Destiny of Souls. He developed a unique hypnosis technique called Life between Lives Hypnotherapy which allegedly allows one to remember his/her existence while in a discarnate state. He is now retired from active practice, but has trained others around the world to use his methods and to continue what he started. This kind of therapy seems to be genuine and effective, as I have never seen anyone claiming that he is a fraud and Newton has been doing this for several decades already. So according to the hundreds of people that went through this sort of hypnosis there seems to be life between lives and in fact there appears to be a lot going on in between physical lives.
The problem with such methods is that the kinds of memories obtained in this manner are very scarce and the price charged for one such hypnosis session which usually lasts for approximately 6 hours is 500 USD/EURO.
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NoDogma
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2014 : 9:30:21 PM
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Can one be sure that these reincarnation experiences (or memories) are nothing but daydreams ? and that they are not created mainly because one wants them ?
Long ago I met a teacher who started telling our group (3 people) Aliens come to earth in their own vehicles (which humans don't know about) and they talk to him. Also that he is getting married to this lady who was his wife during past 3 lives. I said thank you but I need to find another teacher. :-)
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