|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 13 2014 : 05:29:39 AM
|
Last night, bothered by the full moon bathing my room in silvery light and unable to sleep, I had this crazy idea. What if we all made the Demons we knew of our Ishta instead of the gods and goddesses and sages and saints but instead of doing evil deeds, we loved them literally to death - as we do our Ishtas. Wouldn't that upset the applecart and tip the scale to goodness? 
Pouring love and compassion and light onto them.
What do you think?
I am changing my Ishta. 
Sey |
|
|
Mykal K
Germany
267 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2014 : 06:10:12 AM
|
Sorry, but to me it seems you are just improving upon it.
Seems like love is your ishta still.  |
 |
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2014 : 11:45:40 AM
|
My own personal "demons" are my ishta but I don't see them as separate entities... instead they are seen as troublesome unconscious aspects of myself that have yet to be re-integrated back into the conscious whole. They are the greatest teachers/pointers I know of and I go out of my way to find them/bring them to the surface. When they are found I give "them" (aka me) as much love as I can and then they usually (but not always, sometimes there are several "layers" to a 'demon') become less troublesome.
Love,
Carson  |
|
|
|
Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - Feb 13 2014 : 11:48:55 AM
|
You're making me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry!
But I'd love myself still ^^ |
|
|
|
SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2014 : 12:18:21 AM
|
@Mykal - I agree
@CarzonZ - I agree
@Zlarp - I would love me too
Much love to you all,
Sey  |
|
|
|
Chaz
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2014 : 02:05:11 AM
|
Weird, I swear I was just thinking something similar the other day. Don't know much about the beliefs and practices of satanism, just that satan is worshipped. I was wondering if that worship was actually to the same divine essence we all pray to, just in another disguise... A VERY good one, since I can't imagine anything having power separate from the One.
That'd be pretty ironic. Then not even someone going to lengths to be anti-God will be able to escape His rapturous love and light.
I remember when I was a little kid I asked my mom; "If Jesus says we should love and forgive all, does that mean the devil too?" She of course said absolutely NOT! The devil is bad. But nowadays I don't believe in the devil as an entity out to get the world, just the devil in human vices and that little voice inside my head that tries to convince me to be self-serving, separate, and finite. The inner demons are the only devils I know, and they are quite cunning too.
It makes a lot of sense expressing love to these demons. It's a transformative power, it purifies and heals. Love integrates into the whole. So answering my childhood question to satisfy that curiosity, love and forgiveness should be expressed towards the devil... The demons and vices we battle within. They can't hide from the light. In fact they might dance and rejoice in it. 
Thank you for this thought provoking topic. :)
Chaz |
Edited by - Chaz on Feb 14 2014 02:53:36 AM |
|
|
|
Zlarp
Switzerland
46 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2014 : 05:18:17 AM
|
| Chaz, you'd do well to read up a bit on satanism. Satan is, funnily enough, not neccessarily worshipped. It is a very ironic and self-conscious religion :) |
|
|
|
Chaz
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2014 : 07:07:38 AM
|
Hi Zlarp
I actually did read up on it a little bit before posting, so as to not sound completely ignorant. :)
From what I understand there are two main philosophies within satanism; the worship of satan as a deity (many times in an anti-Christian context), and Satan as a symbol of individualism or the "we play the role of God" belief. Neither of these resonate over here, and frankly the latter sounded like ego worship to me... So I did not read into it much further. It's quite an obscure religion with a diverse set of ideas and philosophies though, so maybe there is more to it than I am aware of. But at any rate, I've found the best of many philosophies and practices right here, so I won't be doing much further investigation. Feel free to offer up any info on anything within satanist beliefs that fit somewhere within the scope of yoga and the expansion of ecstatic bliss... I would love to be enlightened about stuff like that!
Chaz |
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2014 : 10:19:16 AM
|
One time I was sitting at a bar in Costa Rica and I met a card-carrying member of the Church of Satan.
What happened was: we started talking, and somehow I mentioned that I had majored in religious studies at Florida State, and that I really enjoyed Buddhism in particular. And I asked: "How about you? Do you have any religious background?" He said: "Oh yes, I'm a Satanist." I laughed hysterically and said something like: "That's cool, man, that's cool." Anyway, he described some of the basics, and it boiled down to: do whatever you want.
Turns out his wife had studied dance at Florida State, and her mother was one of my wife's teachers in the master's program. Small world!
Anyway, I think if any law is real in the universe, it's the law of karma, which is moral cause and effect. So, I would say: do whatever you want, but contemplate the consequences.
But going back to our beloved Satan, there's a really alluring movie called "The Ninth Gate" with Johnny Depp (directed by Roman Polanski). It's dark and esoteric and supernatural. Highly recommend it. Satan's involved. Also, there's a demoness/goddess in the film that's super-provocative, enticing, seductive, etc.
And then, of course, there's Harry Potter, and the Dark Arts. When I contemplate that story, I think what happened was that Lord Voldemort just had a rough childhood and liked snakes a little too much. And that changed his facial structure somewhat. But, c'mon, he's still just a regular guy trying to make it. His methods are a little dubious, certainly, but is he really that bad?
Thank you, Seychelles, for flipping the proverbial script.  |
|
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2014 : 10:28:14 AM
|
I've read the Satanic Bible by Anton Levey and actually had a copy for sale on the bookshelf in my store until it sold the other day... of course, it was placed back to back with a copy of the Holy Bible, offsetting each other.
My understanding is that there are different "sects" of Satanism same as there are in Christianity. The one's that use the Satanic Bible as a doctrine seem to be generally considered 'amateurs' by the more serious practitioners. The sects that use the Satanic Bible seem to be mostly hedonistically oriented... it's all about pleasure for themselves no matter who it is at the expense of. Selfishness seems to be placed on a pedestal. The sects that are "serious" use secretive rituals and practices to invoke demonic presences into their lives to do their bidding. These are the groups that do actual ritual human sacrifices etc. Essentially they are making allegiances with dark forces in hopes that they will aid them in achieving their goals here on Earth.
I love inquiring into the value of seemingly "lost" or "confused" paths. I truly believe that all paths lead home, so I like looking at religions like Satanism, 'anti-religions' like atheism and other paths like shamanism, psychonautic exploration, and even quantum science to glean as much insight into my own path as possible.
Love,
Carson |
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2014 : 10:33:18 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I've read the Satanic Bible by Anton Levey and actually had a copy for sale on the bookshelf in my store until it sold the other day... of course, it was placed back to back with a copy of the Holy Bible, offsetting each other.
LOL. That's awesome. To quote another beloved villain by the name of Captain Hook: "Good form, Peter Pan, good form." |
|
|
|
Chaz
USA
129 Posts |
Posted - Feb 14 2014 : 8:05:25 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by CarsonZi
I love inquiring into the value of seemingly "lost" or "confused" paths. I truly believe that all paths lead home, so I like looking at religions like Satanism, 'anti-religions' like atheism and other paths like shamanism, psychonautic exploration, and even quantum science to glean as much insight into my own path as possible.
Hmmm, now I'd be very intrigued to meet a self-realized satanist with the kind of thinking you mention... But I agree, I think all paths do lead to home. Maybe for some of us it takes going far away from home and getting lost in a dark and scary world before we realize... Home is where the heart is. Literally. :)
I too think many other paths provide great insight into ones own, and it can become a process of connecting the dots. At least that's how it is over here. Many parallels have been drawn between a wide range of diverse and sometimes contradictory paths. Interesting that you mention quantum science as I think the discoveries in this field are the greatest proof of our divine reality. It's my belief that as human consciousness continues to evolve, we will begin to think and operate more at quantum levels. Hmm, perhaps this is samyama? There goes another parallel.
Bodhi, what the heck are you saying? He-who-must-not-be-named is pure evil. The most dangerous ego in history. He is attached to siddhis, and wants to rid the world of all us non-siddhi possessing folk so he can be in control. And he was not born out of love... The divine essence we all come from, so he is devoid of divine nature. Absolutely bad. Not even an ounce of good. |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2014 : 07:29:21 AM
|
Yes, "Do what thou wilt" is the mantra of satanists who follow Aleister Crowley.
I can completely understand where that could have come from, if you were surrounded by christians who seem to be cracking the whip for you to follow their rules. I see echoes of those types today, claiming to want individual freedom, but wanting laws to conform to their beliefs.
I have seen some very good arguments for satanism. Something about we were apes, and our DNA was altered by higher beings to make us good slaves, and we began to worship the DNA alterers as Gods.
(Side note- there is evidence in our DNA that it was altered in the past!)
Some kind of reptilian beings warned us that they are not Gods, and so the DNA alterers made up the story of the Garden of Eden so we wouldn't listen to the reptilians, and would remain loyal slaves and worshipers.
This dialect continues today in the form of people saying certain politicians are actually reptilians, out to do us harm.
There are a lot of different kinds of satanists, some good, some bad. It depends on what your intentions are in relation to others.
If your intention is to do what is best for other people, you are in tune with God, and good, and if not, you will work against yourself too. We are all connected whether we can see it or not, and if you work against what is best for others, you ultimately harm yourself.
Personally I have found if you are not devoted to an ishta, there will be an angst that will tell you that you are all alone and empty, and life is all for nothing. People do a thousand things to combat that; most find a mate, do things to be accepted by others like joining groups, texting, etc.
But those are only distractions unless you are devoted to an ishta. So if you believe satan does what is best for all people then he is a good ishta, but if you believe he does what is best for you at the expense of others, not so much. 
So this fight we see today about whether there is a god or not is completely missing the point. Devotion to God (or whatever you call your ishta) is a tool that gets rid of the angst whether he is real or not!
--------------------
comedian Louis CK describes the angst in a hilarious way here, saying cell phones impede empathy development:
"Louis C.K. Hates Cell Phones"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HbYScltf1c |
|
|
|
Vimala
France
80 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2014 : 04:51:25 AM
|
Imho, the problems lie in the way in which we -as westerners- subconsciously look at demons.
Even, if we embrace a new satanic philosophy or interpretation, there's a deep place in our brain where demons are evil spirits who do harm.
So, my humble suggestion is that if you were a christian (especially as a child), it's not safe to introduce demons in your sadhanas. |
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 18 2014 : 07:38:47 AM
|
Good point. Even if your conscious mind is OK with it, there may be unintended consequences.
Also, we are connected unconsciously to others who don't think good thoughts in relation to the word satan.
It is said that we can heal others sometimes by going within ourselves.
So who knows how it may deter that effect? |
|
|
|
SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2014 : 01:21:19 AM
|
Last night, kept awake by a big thunder storm - where lightning rivaled with my lit-up shushumna, I thought some more about this. Does it even matter who or what we are passionately loving (or should I say pointing our Love at) as long as we are Love-mad like MykalK pointed out? I mean pure Love here.
Was Moses wrong in telling the people (Exodus) not to worship the Golden Cow?
Sey |
Edited by - SeySorciere on Feb 21 2014 01:22:40 AM |
|
|
|
Ayiram
88 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2014 : 04:06:17 AM
|
Hey Sey...
the first thing that comes to mind are the words of St.Augustine:
Once for all, then, a short precept is given you:
Love, and do what you will:
whether you hold your peace,
through love hold your peace;
whether you cry out, through love cry out;
whether you correct, through love correct;
whether you spare, through love do you spare:
let the root of love be within,
of this root can nothing spring but what is good.
With Love in Christ.
...or whatever your Ishta is...
|
|
|
|
Bodhi Tree
2972 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2014 : 08:27:13 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
Does it even matter who or what we are passionately loving (or should I say pointing our Love at) as long as we are Love-mad like MykalK pointed out?
I think that's a great point, and I'll paraphrase Yogani: Ultimately, it's not what we believe in, but who we become, that matters most.
|
|
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2014 : 8:01:42 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by SeySorciere
Does it even matter who or what we are passionately loving (or should I say pointing our Love at) as long as we are Love-mad like MykalK pointed out? I mean pure Love here.
Sey
I would say no it doesn't matter, "as long as".
For those who constantly radiate love, all day every day.
But that's not me. Sometimes I'm not radiating love, and I feel the angst I spoke of above. That's when i say the name of my ishta, but I don't feel devotion. That's when the collective past of an ishta matters. Just saying the name helps me when I am unable to feel it on my own. |
|
|
|
Anima
484 Posts |
Posted - Feb 21 2014 : 8:29:10 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Mykal K
Sorry, but to me it seems you are just improving upon it.
Seems like love is your ishta still.
I second this.
Satan means "opponent" or "adversary" in Aramaic, which seems to have a less evil connotation than today. Even the word demon means, in Greek, "spirit." The guru, Socrates, said he lived with one.
Satan's words live even in the holy scriptures of the Lord. The value (of their presence) lies not in their concepts, or any concepts, but in motion. Moving past the apparently static dissonance of duality and opposition with our spirit (faith) and karma (actions). Balancing substance and void. The rules of the scale are not up to us.
PS @ Bodhi: hilarious! I've met a couple Satanists. One used to draw me naked. |
Edited by - Anima on Feb 21 2014 8:46:05 PM |
|
|
|
benny
Australia
2 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2018 : 12:51:59 AM
|
| Is Satan "Evil". I know that question seems ridiculus to most but I had a conversation with a friend of mine who is into occult works and is a Magician made a very interesting argument about Satan not being evil in such a word but.... |
|
|
|
Blanche
USA
867 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2018 : 06:41:17 AM
|
| What we feed with our attention grows. The world rises from our mind - so, what kind of world do we want to live in? What do we want to grow, and what do we want to let go? |
|
|
|
SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Mar 14 2018 : 07:05:50 AM
|
Oh..someone brought this thread back... interesting. I discovered lately that some Buddhist masters choose to be reborn in hell realms to help sentient beings. Now that is compassion!! Do demons count as sentient beings?
Sey |
|
|
|
Argost
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Mar 15 2018 : 11:53:52 AM
|
SeySorciere- Reading your post immediately reminded me of the story of Machig Labdron and the practice of chod ("feeding the demons"). I heard the story in a Tara Brach talk a few months ago. The way she describes Machig turning her body into the nectar of love to feed the demons around her is so wonderful. In feeding on this love the demons are turned into protecting daimons ("lesser gods, guiding spirits, tutelary deities" - https://www.etymonline.com/word/daimon).
https://www.tarabrach.com/awakening-trance-fear-2/
Something about the talk struck me enough that I've listened to it multiple times since first hearing it. The story of Machig is at 11:30. The story she reads from Frank Ostaseski's The Five Invitations @32:20 I also found really striking. |
|
|
|
SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Mar 19 2018 : 09:55:49 AM
|
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Satan as Ishta
