|
|
 |
|
| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Light
USA
19 Posts |
 Posted - Feb 10 2014 : 11:34:03 PM
|
Hello again,
I have a musculoskeletal injury to my neck and am pending surgery. When I try to meditate in the sitting position, whether in a chair, on the floor with lower back support, in bed propped up on pillows, I inevitably have so much pain and tightness in my neck that it interrupts the meditation: I usually end up moving partway through the meditation to lie down. Some days, when I'm starting with pain before beginning a session, I just lie down, thinking that completing a meditation lying down is better than no meditation, but I am not sure that's an assumption I should make.
I note that Yogani's writings (that I've read so far) seem to indicate that one should always be seated, but I haven't seen an explanation as to why one should be seated other than the potential to fall asleep. I rarely fall asleep, and when I do, it's usually in the rest period after the meditation is finished. What I have found is that I can more easily visualize the energy moving from base chakra to third eye and back when I'm seated, but it's not impossible lying down.
My biggest concerns are whether lying down could cause the meditation to (1) be ineffective or (2) do damage -- as in causing a blockage of energy or something.
I believe it was in Yogani's writings (please do correct me if I'm mistaken) that I read that it's acceptable to meditate more than the morning and evening sessions when you're ill. In the last day, I've been very sick with a stomach bug and it led to wondering why it's okay or even advisable to meditate more when one is ill. I'm thinking ahead to surgery and that I'll probably have several days where I'm recovering and have a lot of free time in which it might be a good thing to spend more time in meditation.
Thanks for any light you can shed on these questions. I'm so happy to have found Yogani's books and this forum -- very helpful discussions and positive vibe here. :)
L |
|
|
Mykal K
Germany
267 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2014 : 03:40:06 AM
|
Hello Light,
concerning your question about posture, I am pretty certain that Yogani said that the comfortable lying position is better that the uncomfortable sitting one. The only thing he said to watch out for in lying position, is not to fall asleep.
I do not know about your other question, somebody else will surely chime in.
|
 |
|
|
NoDogma
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - Feb 11 2014 : 8:34:10 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Light
Hello again,
after the meditation is finished. What I have found is that I can more easily visualize the energy moving from base chakra to third eye and back when I'm seated, but it's not impossible lying down.
L
Just want to make sure you meant "it's not impossible" (and that it's not a typo) and not "it's not possible".
A pranayama breathing is best done in a seating position with straight spine (not slouched), whether it involves a full breath like in Ujjayi or shallow breathing in Kapalbhatti/Bhastrika. If you're lying down and trying to do a full deep breath then it's more difficult to a) keep the breathing speed uniform (b) do it deep. It can add unreasonable pressures on lungs (and may be somewhere else too) and cause damage.
EDIT (add) : can potentially cause physical damage. I think the books on Hatha Yoga are quite strict about sitting posture during the Pranayamas.
SBP is not only about moving attention along spine, but also doing a controlled full breath cycle along with it. So, I can see if SBP is not recommended lying down.
At the same time, I don't see any reason why things like AYAM chanting meditation (DM) can not be done lying down. Also, some chanting aloud (soft) not just quietly can be done. But not those that involve controlling (focussing) breath.
One problem as you suggested is dozing off. Another could be overdoing it because you don't have anything else.
|
Edited by - NoDogma on Feb 11 2014 8:57:03 PM |
|
|
|
AumNaturel
Canada
687 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2014 : 12:53:34 AM
|
I interrupt my deep meditation as well sometimes to give my legs a bit of a break, if unfolding or refolding the other way real brief counts as that, but I carry on the procedure as if nothing's happening. It is true, interruptions and distractions are to be minimized, but the lessons also say with time it becomes possible to carry it out even in adverse circumstances. There's a lesson linked in a related reply here http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....13843#117918 and I distinctly remember somewhere Yogani mentioning that if no other practices might be possible at whatever point in time, meditation usually will be an option still available. It is a natural extension to also have bhakti jnana and karma yoga along with that if so inclined.
It does sound like a really difficult situation, and maybe someone who has been through something similar can offer their experience with how they chose to meditate. I have read elsewhere that those who do a different type of meditation are still able to maintain their depth if moving very slowly. If that may be true, even if deep meditation instructions work differently it could help to alter sitting positions for comfort and make the move routine and as simple as possible while carrying on for your set time.
To me, I find a large difference between sitting upright and lying down in the way the mind and body feel during and after. There's a few models of why this may be so, ranging from qi or prana scattering and diffusing inwards (savasana or corpse pose) versus upright in relaxed balance postures where spirit is concentrated and energy is more outward, alignment to Earth's elements and EM fields, and some form of grounding. About effectiveness and flow of energy, I am curious as well and have no insight on it.
For illness, if it is very light, a routine would be fine, maybe if scaled back a bit. Otherwise, I do recall the lessons saying it is best to let the body use the energies for healing and resume as soon as it clears up. During the time, it might be best to honour the habit however possible. Intuition and the body will guide you in this matter.
Wish you the best, and much healing to you. |
Edited by - AumNaturel on Feb 12 2014 12:55:09 AM |
|
|
|
Light
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2014 : 6:23:16 PM
|
"Just want to make sure you meant "it's not impossible" (and that it's not a typo) and not "it's not possible".
No typo. I can visualize the energy moving whether I'm sitting or lying down.
"...If you're lying down and trying to do a full deep breath then it's more difficult to a) keep the breathing speed uniform (b) do it deep. It can add unreasonable pressures on lungs (and may be somewhere else too) and cause damage.
EDIT (add) : can potentially cause physical damage. I think the books on Hatha Yoga are quite strict about sitting posture during the Pranayamas."
I have a medical background and can't imagine what physical damage could be caused by deep breathing since patients are prescribed deep breathing after surgery and really whenever possible, even lying down, for health enhancement and prevention of very real dangers like pulmonary emboli. I was referring more to some sort of energetic damage, like an accumulation of blockages in an area or something or simply wholly ineffective meditation.
L |
|
|
|
Light
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - Feb 12 2014 : 6:37:17 PM
|
@AumNaturel
"To me, I find a large difference between sitting upright and lying down in the way the mind and body feel during and after. There's a few models of why this may be so, ranging from qi or prana scattering and diffusing inwards (savasana or corpse pose) versus upright in relaxed balance postures where spirit is concentrated and energy is more outward, alignment to Earth's elements and EM fields, and some form of grounding. About effectiveness and flow of energy, I am curious as well and have no insight on it."
Yes, those are my concerns -- I am a long-time meditator, but relatively new to mantra meditation and Yogani's methods, in particular, and I am concerned that "I don't know what I don't know," if that makes sense.
Since posting this thread I did read something Yogani wrote that noticing how you are changing outside of the meditation session is one of the best indicators of whether it's effective, so if that is my cue, I am finding myself more aware. I don't know if I can attribute it to the meditation alone, as I have become more spiritual in many ways, but I am pleased with finding myself less reactive in many situations. There are good days and bad, of course, but the overall trend right now is a good one.
"Intuition and the body will guide you in this matter."
Thank you for the reminder. :) The guru is in all of us, and I need to remember to heed its guidance.
Thank you for your well wishes. I'm expecting and intending the physical barriers to be temporary and that I will eventually be back to sitting for the entire session.
Namaste,
L |
|
|
|
Ecdyonurus
Switzerland
479 Posts |
Posted - Feb 15 2014 : 07:52:09 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Light
"Just want to make sure you meant "it's not impossible" (and that it's not a typo) and not "it's not possible".
No typo. I can visualize the energy moving whether I'm sitting or lying down.
"...If you're lying down and trying to do a full deep breath then it's more difficult to a) keep the breathing speed uniform (b) do it deep. It can add unreasonable pressures on lungs (and may be somewhere else too) and cause damage.
EDIT (add) : can potentially cause physical damage. I think the books on Hatha Yoga are quite strict about sitting posture during the Pranayamas."
I have a medical background and can't imagine what physical damage could be caused by deep breathing since patients are prescribed deep breathing after surgery and really whenever possible, even lying down, for health enhancement and prevention of very real dangers like pulmonary emboli. I was referring more to some sort of energetic damage, like an accumulation of blockages in an area or something or simply wholly ineffective meditation.
L
Hi Light, I don't know if lying down during meditation could have a negative impact on the result. I think one can try it and see what happens. You are a long-time meditator, so I think you have the necessary skills to judge by yourself.  I had to meditate lying down sometimes in the past, and I did not notice a relevant difference. But it happened just some few times, and I don't know if a consistent DM practice lying down instead of sitting can lead to a different result. On the other hand, omitting DM just because one can't sit is not a good solution neither... 
Pranayama can be done lying down, and actually I learned pranayama lying down on props the Iyengar way (you can check his books on pranayama if you want). If done right, you get a straight spine without any muscular strain, and you can really focus on the breath. Lying down in pranayama is considered a technique for beginners in the Iyengar approach, but I remember reading somewhere that he also recommended the same approach if you are not able to sit because of illness, weakness or injury. Actually, I still lay down on pranayama sometimes, when I feel tired or just dont want to sit - it works, well, at least it does for me. |
|
|
|
NoDogma
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - Feb 16 2014 : 01:18:05 AM
|
Please disregard my previous post. I realize now that I had made it in my context. I used to suffer from Asthma and although it is now mostly cured I still can't deep breath at uniform speed lying down. Also, I remember a friend of mine who used to teach Iyengar yoga had told me that they start the Pranayamas lying down but then those were not belly (diaphragm) breathing but chest breathing ones. He stopped teaching after damaging both knees from excess poses (that is the competitive side of yoga in modern times).
Take it easy, come out of it safe and quickly.
~ I might have a guru inside me but I don't trust him :-)
|
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
| AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|
Illness, meditation posture and length of time
