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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 27 2013 : 3:44:32 PM
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Hello,
Having been recently inspired by attending the AYP retreat here earlier in the month, I'm feeling a pull to advance my practice.
My usual practice consists of 5 minutes pranayama, 10 minutes deep meditation, twice a day as time allows - quite often with work this will be one sitting a day, or two sittings of shorter length, etc.
I am attempting celibacy/brahmacharya for a while, but find it nigh-impossible to go longer than a week or two. I would like to preserve this - I find I feel much better in myself with preservation, after release often feeling more prone to anxiety, etc.
Would introducing mulabhanda, sambhavi and siddhasana together during the pranayama likely produce overtraining results? Is there a 'phased approach' usually recommended? I am really desperate to get this celibacy thing handled for now. I would like to be sitting for 5 minutes pranayama, 15 minutes meditation, and 1 repetition/sutra samyama, twice a day, ideally.
Any advice would be welcome. Thank you.
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2013 : 10:12:09 PM
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Hi Jack,
As you probably noticed, in the main lessons Yogani goes from mulabandha to sambhavi to siddahasana. In his lesson on Mulabandha, Yogani addresses an aspect of your question:
"Everyone is different, and you should only take on new practices according to your capacity. This means you should be stable and comfortable in your current pranayama and meditation routine before you undertaken new techniques. If you are borderline and go for it, you will find out soon enough if you are taking on too much. That's okay. If you find that you are taking on too much too soon, just go back to a comfortable level of practice and try again later."
I would add that what we are going for when we combine cultivation of sexual energy with mudras bandhas is a rather mysterious evolution that involves improved inner sensuality. If it feels good in an increasingly refined inner sensation, that's beneficial.
Namaste,
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Edited by - bewell on Dec 27 2013 10:27:46 PM |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2013 : 01:17:45 AM
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Hi Bewell, thank you for your reply.
Thank you for bringing that lesson to mind again. I think I will introduce mulabhanda only for now, and if I feel steady with it in a few weeks, introduce sambhavi. If I'm okay with those a few months down the line, I'll introduce Siddhasana.
The other issue I deal with is my shift pattern. I basically work four twelve-hour shifts in a row, then four days off. I'm thinking that for the work days, I'll be practicing 2 minute SBP/6 minutes DM, twice per day. On the days off I'll practice 5 minutes SBP/15 minutes DM/3 minutes Samyama, twice per day. Would anybody anticipate this causing instability? As always, I'll see how I go.
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SeySorciere
Seychelles
1553 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2013 : 02:41:01 AM
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Dear Jack - Unless you know yourself to be sensitive to meditation, I would say you are being overly cautious. You don't need to wait months to add siddhasana to mula bandha and sambhavi. Those three work brilliantly together.
Sey |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2013 : 12:55:30 PM
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Hi Sey,
I was hoping somebody would say that. I have had some past sensitivity and instability, but after a year of massively curtailed practices, I would like to test the water. I'll try all three together, and back off if I need to. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Dec 30 2013 : 08:07:05 AM
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Hi Jack,
The usual recommendation is to leave a few weeks between adding one practice and the next. The reason for this is that if you do experience over-sensitivity to any particular practice, then you can more easily isolate the practice that is causing the issue, and back off to a stable level by dropping that practice.
So if you want to follow things "by the book" then add mulabandha first, then if everything is fine after a few weeks you could add sambhavi mudra and again if everything remains stable you can add siddhasana a few weeks later.
Of course you don't have to go by the book, so you can add everything at once if your spiritual desire is leading you that way. Just be aware that there is a more cautious route that you can follow if you want that gives a bit more control and stability should you need it. 
Christi |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2014 : 12:43:45 PM
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Thank you, Christi.
I'm keeping with the Mulabandha and Sambhavi Mudra, but leaving Siddhasana be for now - I find it a powerful posture but a little bit edgy. The mulabhanda and sambhavi feel smooth, powerful and refined, likely due to years of previous SBP and DM practice.
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2014 : 12:49:21 PM
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Just posting my current practice times, including working rota. I think I have finally struck up a balance.
Day 1 - I work 6am to 6pm. I will do 2 abbreviates sits, one after waking, one after work.
Day 2 - I work 6am to 6pm. I will do 1 abbreviate sit before work, 1 full sit after work.
Day 3 - I work 6pm to 6am the following morning. I will do 1 full sit before work. After work it is straight to bed.
Day 4 - I work 6pm to 6am the following morning. I will do 1 full sit before work. After work it is straight to bed.
Day 5, 6, 7, 8 - Not working - I will do 2 full sits per day.
Abbreviated sit = 2 minutes SBP, 6 minutes DM, 8 minutes rest.
Full sit = 5 minutes SBP, 15 minutes DM, 3 minutes Samyama, 15 minutes rest.
This is a nice step up on what I was practicing previously. Feels good so far. |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jan 01 2014 : 12:53:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Thank you, Christi.
I'm keeping with the Mulabandha and Sambhavi Mudra, but leaving Siddhasana be for now - I find it a powerful posture but a little bit edgy. The mulabhanda and sambhavi feel smooth, powerful and refined, likely due to years of previous SBP and DM practice.
Hi Jack,
Yes, siddhasana is powerful, so to phase it in gradually is wise. Ramana Maharshi once referred to it as the "king of all asanas".
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2014 : 12:33:40 PM
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I find it tough to really balance all of these at once. Well, the sambhavi mudra and mula bandha. Siddhasana is passive. Engaging them simultaneously is no problem, but once I start visualizing and tracing the spinal nerve I can lose the engagement of one or both.
For me it was helpful to integrate individually as the lessons suggest so I could get each one established. But it sounds like you have that, and are concerned more about the possibility of overload. I'm too new at this to speak from experience there. |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2014 : 4:34:25 PM
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I would not try to add sambhavi mudra, mula bandha and siddhasana all at once. I have had to back off of siddhasana many times. I find it amazing how it seems to supercharge everything. Energy that took time to feel at a calm gentle level seems to change to a steady breeze flowing through you. Or better said. It's like stepping outside with no wind compared to a steady gentle breeze.
That change means more energy while doing sp or any other practice. It makes it very easy to overload until you are really ready for siddhasana and can handle the extra purification that goes along with it.
At least that has been my experience.
P.S. When you are ready a zafu really helps a lot. I have found it is more comfortable than doing it in bed. |
Edited by - jonesboy on Jan 02 2014 4:36:58 PM |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Jan 03 2014 : 11:03:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jonesboy
I would not try to add sambhavi mudra, mula bandha and siddhasana all at once. I have had to back off of siddhasana many times. I find it amazing how it seems to supercharge everything. Energy that took time to feel at a calm gentle level seems to change to a steady breeze flowing through you. Or better said. It's like stepping outside with no wind compared to a steady gentle breeze.
That change means more energy while doing sp or any other practice. It makes it very easy to overload until you are really ready for siddhasana and can handle the extra purification that goes along with it.
At least that has been my experience.
P.S. When you are ready a zafu really helps a lot. I have found it is more comfortable than doing it in bed.
I've been doing siddhasana for a few months, with no discernible effects so far. I was speaking more from the physical side of trying to do each correctly, as opposed to any energy experiences which for me have been little to none save for very recently having a week or so of minor energy experiences. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2014 : 12:03:14 AM
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| I am finding that with tracing the spinal nerve, engaging ujjayi breathing, and maintaining mulabhanda and sambhavi that often the mulabandha and sambhavi relax. I'm aware from the lessons that this is somewhat normal. I want to see if this resolves with a few weeks of practice. If it is still clunky by mid-late February, I may well have to drop the sambhavi for a week or two. We will see. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2014 : 12:46:05 PM
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I've found sambhavi to be the trickiest one to add to the mix. I'm not familiar with ujjayi breathing (unless that is the restricted exhale, which in that case I am doing).
It is most tricky when exhaling, tracing the spinal nerve downward, but also raising the eyes up. There are some conceptual contradictions there (down/up concurrently) that seem to throw me off. Like you, the sambhavi and mula bandha end up relaxing. |
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Lar
USA
11 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2014 : 4:28:50 PM
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I, too find maintaining sambhavi tricky, though I am improving. I have to concentrate with intention to keep my eyes raised and also visualize the spinal nerve. I wonder if this concentration goes beyond just "favoring".
I have also notice something else of interest. When I trace my breath up and down I find it easier to visualize my spinal channel in profile. However, I find that if I visualize it from a frontal view, still inside the channel but squarely centering my focus up and down it feels different. My eyes naturally cross, which makes sense because my spine is directly between my eyes. Does that make sense? At the same time my tongue curls together and up toward my hard palette like in the initial stage of kerachi mudra. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2014 : 4:31:56 PM
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Restricted exhalation is the Ujjayi breathing, yes.
Sounds like we are coming across the same experience, Yogaman. Keeping the eyes up whilst the attention goes down is indeed the most clunky part of the technique for me at this moment, too. :)
Like I said, I will keep up with both and reassess in a few weeks. If it is still too clunky, that may be a sign to back off of the sambhavi. I'd really like to keep it in though :D |
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Christi
United Kingdom
4430 Posts |
Posted - Jan 06 2014 : 6:29:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
I am finding that with tracing the spinal nerve, engaging ujjayi breathing, and maintaining mulabhanda and sambhavi that often the mulabandha and sambhavi relax. I'm aware from the lessons that this is somewhat normal. I want to see if this resolves with a few weeks of practice. If it is still clunky by mid-late February, I may well have to drop the sambhavi for a week or two. We will see.
Hi Jack,
It's not a problem if the sambhavi and mulabandha relax during practices. You can start off a session with them applied and if they drop off that's O.K. too. Gradually, as the current of prana rising through the body increases in power, you will find that they are held for longer periods until eventually they come automatically with no effort. Or you may find that you want to hold them for longer as the ecstatic connection becomes stronger.
Christi |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Jan 07 2014 : 10:03:09 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Restricted exhalation is the Ujjayi breathing, yes.
Sounds like we are coming across the same experience, Yogaman. Keeping the eyes up whilst the attention goes down is indeed the most clunky part of the technique for me at this moment, too. :)
Like I said, I will keep up with both and reassess in a few weeks. If it is still too clunky, that may be a sign to back off of the sambhavi. I'd really like to keep it in though :D
Some of this stuff is tough to explain, but I've found that if I mentally envision the mula-sambhavi system as a "unit", it's a bit easier. I think I/we may have unintendedly been moving our eyes while tracing the spine! Most likely we need to unlearn that. Or perhaps it's just a natural consequence and part of the process is to unlink these movements from each other.
Since our discussion here I've been having slightly better results the past few days. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2014 : 02:15:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Hi Yogaman,
I have just stumbled across the following lesson, with some useful advice.
http://www.aypsite.org/131.html
Yes very helpful, thanks! Interesting the the physical "brain squeeze" aspect. My sits have been getting ever so slightly better in this area since we began discussing. Thanks. I was getting a bit sloppy with it. |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Jan 09 2014 : 7:13:57 PM
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I think I may have had a more accurate experience of sambhavi this morning. My goal was to avoid what the eyes were looking at, and focus on the sensation of the physical location of them (as per the lesson you linked to). As with mula bandha, I believe the location is a bit more within the body than I was initially visualizing it.
In a way, sambhavi mudra is like the "mula bandha for the head". I'm almost certain I have it now, and had quite the good sit this morning. Lots of inner energy and engaging sambhavi & mula was a bit more relaxed and effortless. I could really feel it, and all day I've been sensing the inner energy flowing around, and I've been casually engaging both as its a gently pleasurable sensation.
Do your best to feel the sambhavi as opposed to using your "sight" to "look" in the right direction. Once you feel where it is engaged, it becomes much easier. Of course, I may not be doing it right at all yet! But it sure seems like it.
Good luck. |
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Jack
United Kingdom
305 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2014 : 07:40:01 AM
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Just experimented with 'feeling' the sambhavi rather than 'focusing the eyes' and what a difference! There is like a perceptual or energetic pooling effect that I simply did not experience when 'focussing the eyes'.
Thanks. |
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adishivayogi
USA
197 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2014 : 09:22:00 AM
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| i was always pulled towards celibacy, no doubt quotes made by ramakrishna about devotees perserving for 12 years before realizations would occur had a big influence on that. and though im still a celibate i see the value in tantra. and to me brahmacharya and tantra have become synonymous. siddahasana is powerful in terms of preservation and cultivation. celibacy will become easier. the was a period in my life i couldn't go a week. then out of nowhere celibacy became nearly effortless. id go months without thinknig the thought of a woman. but i feel as your energies increse you have to resort to more and more(nature isn't so willing to let you go now) Noncutrnal dreams become your only foe. Even that can be directed upwards though. i read the loss is less than conscious emissions(who knows, the orgasm is defiantly less). but low and behold grace is there to help you. you will release less and less semen with ejaculation. eventually you will be able to hold your ejaculations back while dreaming. so a celibate can have just as much mastery over that dimension of life while never indulging in tantric sex |
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Yogaman
USA
295 Posts |
Posted - Jan 10 2014 : 11:01:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Jack
Just experimented with 'feeling' the sambhavi rather than 'focusing the eyes' and what a difference! There is like a perceptual or energetic pooling effect that I simply did not experience when 'focussing the eyes'.
Thanks.
Wonderful to hear! |
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Inroducing mulabandha, sambhavi and siddahasana
