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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
 Posted - Dec 06 2013 : 1:41:00 PM
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I need a little clarification.
With continued practice we achieve inner silence first in practice and then out of practice. Once you achieve inner silence during the day the next thing is the Witness.
To go from inner silence to the Witness is it just a matter of twice daily practice? Is it now when trying to be present in the moment can have the greatest effect to achieving the Witness?
Right now when I notice my thoughts are running wild and I catch them I have been saying "Neti, Neti" besides the lessons I learned from TPP about being in your emotional body in order to stay present.
I am sure many understand that when you experience something profound you want to experience it again. I am worried that one I am trying to hard and two that maybe I am not doing enough.
I need a little guidance on this issue please   |
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bewell
1275 Posts |
Posted - Dec 06 2013 : 2:15:18 PM
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Hi Jonesboy,
Interesting question. Here are some of my thoughts.
Yogani sometimes talks about inner silence and witness interchangeably. "Inner silence" is an auditory metaphor. "Witness" is a visual metaphor. Two aspects of the same inner awareness. Another difference: "Inner silence" may suggest a slowing or even a stilling of thought where as "Witness" has no such implication. Sometimes we become aware of witness while experiencing racing thoughts. In some of the lessons there may be a suggestion that "witness" is more advanced than "inner silence." Not sure. Both witness and silence point toward the the continuity of all experiences, be they in waking, dreaming or deep sleep (awareness with no object). It is a kind of fourth state where all states are experienced as one flow.
Namaste
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mathurs
United Kingdom
197 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2013 : 06:28:59 AM
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Hi Jonesboy,
I think I can sort of relate to what you are saying - especially from recent thoughts and experiences. I think this self enquiry chapter might help:
http://www.aypsite.org/326.html
Especially the second half about bridging the gap helped me immensely. Hope it helps you as well.... |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2013 : 11:35:47 AM
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Thank you mathurs.
As always Yogani packs a lot into a single lesson. |
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JosephUK
United Kingdom
212 Posts |
Posted - Dec 31 2013 : 1:40:27 PM
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Its interesting what you say bewell.
the product of inner silence is as beautiful, sophisticated and deeply moving to understand as any mantra if not a little more.
for me its primordial soup from which all good things come. its a manifested thing which is unmanifest in that it can produce the outpouring of divine love through samyama.
this seems to have infinite properties of manifestation.
you become a conduit almost, a route between God and the outer world.
perhaps there is a method of psychological analysis to be applied to the viewing of inner silence, vs viewing thoughts from the point of the witness (which is developed as a direct result of the development of inner silence)
i guess the witness is a separation between subject ie the viewer and object. whereas inner silence is the subject object joined together viewing the development of a phenomena beyond understanding but well worth considering.
joe |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2014 : 05:57:22 AM
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Hi Jonesboy,
The witness, or witnessing awareness, is not a state that comes and goes, or something that can be achieved. Awareness is always present irrespective of what experiences are occurring.
Before beginning Yoga, meditation or other spiritual practices, our attention is almost exclusively extroverted and focused upon 'objects' - meaning that which we are Aware of. What are the the objects which we are of? Thoughts, emotions, bodily sensations and sense perceptions such as visual images, sounds, tastes and smells.
Curiously, the one thing that remains constant and unchanging throughout this continuously changing display of perceptions, thoughts, sensations and emotions is Awareness. Yet prior to spiritual practice we virtually never pay attention to Awareness itself, instead preferring to give all our attention to objects that we are aware of.
The process of learning to reverse this outward flow of attention, and instead recognize the constant, unchanging presence of Awareness - the one thread that lends continuity to constant flux of experience - is called Viveka. Thus in all experiences we are discerning between the Self (awareness) and the not-Self (transient changing objects which we are aware of).
This is really best learned by practical example. For me I find it very fun, and it's a great love of mine, to find new ways of discerning between the Self and the Not-Self, so I spend a lot of time creating ways.
I wrote the following short list of examples for myself when I was messing around, called What is Awareness (and how to recognize it) . Doing these practical examples will help to have you continually recognizing the presence of awareness in all experiences. The more your attention goes in the direction of awareness, rather than objects, the more that your default state becomes one of peace, happiness and love, attachment and aversion start to unwind (and there is a rising sense of one's happiness being so consistent and absolutely free from external circumstances). I put the examples in the next post. |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2014 : 06:11:54 AM
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What is Awareness?
Awareness is the state of being Aware.
It is the permanent context of experience, entirely distinct from the impermanent content of experience.
For example: Notice the sensations in your right hand.
Action: Flex the fingers, noticing the feeling of the sensations moving and changing. Now stop.
Was not Awareness, the state of being Aware, was present before, during and after the appearance of the moving and changing sensations?
The sensations of “your right hand” were the impermanent, changing content of experience.
The state of being Aware was the permanent, changeless context of experience.
The presence of the context, Awareness, enabled the knowing of the content, Sensations.
Another example: Allow your body to slowly lean forward, and then slowly lean backward. Pay attention to the changing visual image that is seen.
As the body leans forward, the visual image appears to become larger.
As the body leans backward the visual image appears to become smaller.
The visual images moved and changed. They were changing and impermanent.
However, the state of being Aware, the permanent, changeless, context of experience, was present before, during, and after the changing visual images.
The presence of the context, Awareness, enabled the knowing of the content, Visual Images.
Pick out an item of food to taste, an apple, orange, or perhaps some chocolate.
Taste it, really notice and enjoy the taste. Then swallow and stop eating.
Once again: Notice how the state of being Aware was present before, during and after the experience known as “Taste” or “Tasting” arose and disappeared.
The presence of the context, Awareness, enabled the knowing of the content, Taste.
Next: Pay attention to the thought of a pink elephant dancing.
Now simply draw attention away from thought, and to the breath.
Once again: Notice how Awareness, the state of being Aware, was present before, during and after the thought of a pink elephant dancing.
The presence of the context, Awareness, enabled the knowing of the content, Thought.
Thoughts, bodily sensations, visual images, emotions and anything which may be experienced or witnessed is in a state of constant movement and change.
Awareness, the state of being Aware, is the permanent, changeless context which illumines the constant flow of impermanent content.
Awareness thereby lends a sense of continuity to experience, as whilst the content of experience is constantly changing, the light of Awareness by which it is illumined remains constant.
Next: Try to resist Awareness being present. See if you can make an intense effort to somehow stop being Aware. Allow your entire body to become painfully tense from this effort to resist Awareness.
Once again: Notice how Awareness was changelessly present before, during and after the appearance of a body-mind trying to resist it.
The presence of the context, Awareness, enabled the knowing of the content, "appearance of a body-mind attempting to resist Awareness".
Notice therefore how Awareness or being Aware is not something a body-mind is doing. If a body-mind was ‘doing’ “being Aware” it would also be able to stop doing it.
But any attempt of a body-mind to somehow “stop being Aware” will simply be another temporary arising (impermanent content of experience) illumined by Awareness itself (permanent, changeless context of experience).
There are so many more insights if one really learns to recognize Awareness, but this starts you out on the path of discernment. |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Jan 02 2014 07:33:24 AM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2014 : 07:08:28 AM
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Final conclusion and experiment: Can the seen be the seer? Can the knower be the known? Can Awareness know itself as an Object?
Next: Try to somehow direct your attention to Awareness. For example, if I write BLUE WORD and ask you to direct your attention exclusively to that percept of blue-highlighted "BLUE WORD", it's quite easy. Then perhaps direct your attention towards the sounds you are hearing. Then maybe to bodily sensations, just stop and notice those for a moment.
But how about Awareness? Can you somehow Know Awareness in the way that you Know an perceived objected like a thought or visual image? Try intensely hard to direct your attention to Awareness. Allow the body-mind to become incredibly tense in a strained effort to direct its attention to Awareness, the way it directs its attention towards an object.
Once again: Notice how Awareness, (the changeless context of experience), was effortlessly being present illumining the changing content of experience (a body-mind attempting to pay attention to Awareness) before, during and after the temporary appearance of a body-mind trying to pay attention to it.
It's impossible to point to something you are Aware of, and say "That's Awareness!" or even "That's Aware!" All you ever know and experience are sense perceptions, bodily sensations, thoughts and emotions. Not once will you find a sense perception, sensation, thought or emotion which is Aware. The Knower will always be prior to the Known.
Thus how do we pay attention to the changeless context of experience, Awareness? We simply relax that attention we were formerly giving to objects, noticing that Witnessing Awareness was present before, during and after a body-mind appeared to notice it!
Conclusion
Whatever you are, clearly you are the Knower of your own experience? Well as we have seen, the Knower is not a person, it is Awareness. A person falls into the category of the Known. And what knows the Known? The Knower, Awareness.
The effectiveness (the impact on our experience of removing unhappiness, fear & sense of separateness/lack of love) of this logical discernment will be in accord with the ripeness (inner silence) of the practitioner. So if these words don't inspire you, never mind. However, correctly understanding how to discern the Knower from the Known is useful right from the start. It's also useful to realize that Witnessing Awareness is present even before a body mind thinks about noticing it! As such, witnessing awareness is not a result of any practices done by a body-mind, it is always present regardless.
"[For a Westerner] the right procedure is to adhere to the thought that he is the ground of all knowledge, the immutable and perennial awareness of all that happens to the senses and the mind. If he keeps it in mind all the time, aware and alert, he is bound to break the bounds of non-awareness and emerge into pure life, light and love.The idea "I am the witness only" will purify the body and the mind and open the eye of wisdom." - Nisargadatta Maharaj
"The thought that one is the body, gross or subtle, is the cause of all bondage. If the thought is
that one is Consciousness, and that thought is deep and strong, one becomes freed from all
bondage at once." - Sri Atmananda Krishna Menon
"The seer as such can never be the seen, and the seen as such can never be the seer. If this truth goes deep into one's heart, the mistaken identification with the body ceases." - Sri Atmananda Krishna Menon
Love,
Josh |
Edited by - mr_anderson on Jan 02 2014 07:46:47 AM |
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mr_anderson
USA
734 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2014 : 11:40:42 AM
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I'm totally spamming the thread here, so sorry, but here is the perfect Witness understanding from Atmananda Menon (notes on spiritual discourses):
120. ‘TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE THE WITNESS’ AND ‘TO BE A WITNESS’ (83)
These are entirely different things. But you should not try to know that you are the
knower. Both together are impossible. Your knowership is objectless and can never be
objectified.
You are always the witness. But you need not attempt deliberately to take the role
of a witness. Only take note of the fact that you are always the witness.
You are asked to strengthen the conviction that you are the knower, in order to
counteract the old samskaras that you are the doer, enjoyer etc. Though the substance
of doership and enjoyership is effaced, the samskaras might still remain as shadows.
You are only to argue in your mind how you are always the real knower, and repeat
the arguments over and over again. The time will come when the arguments will
become unnecessary, and a mere thought will take you to the conclusion.
Gradually, you will find that even when you do not think about the Truth, and whether you are
engaged or not engaged in activities, you will feel without feeling that you are always
the witness and that you are not affected by any activity or inactivity of the mind and
senses in the relative sphere.
Witnessing is silent awareness. Do not try to make it active in any way. Consciousness
never takes any responsibility for proving the existence or the non-existence of
an object. |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Jan 02 2014 : 3:26:24 PM
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Wow Josh that was some good stuff!
Thank you for that and no worries about spamming. Or better said, please continue to spam 
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From Inner Silence to the Witness?
