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Holy
796 Posts |
 Posted - Jun 02 2016 : 12:16:27 PM
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Hi Sey,
quote:
Forget the Universe - let us take the example of the cat. Seeing the cat walk by within me, does not make me one with the cat, in my opinion. I am just bigger and contain the cat. I have no idea how the cat is feeling.
The cat is a good example. Being totally one to the ultimate would include everything, not leave out anything. I cannot say anything about the Saturn, nor the milky way, except some feeling, intuition. This is partial nonduality, some part of the cake. In the end as you say:quote:
P.S. I had told myself to stop talking about this and just plunk my bum onto my seat everyday and keep at it - talking does not make me know anything, practice does 
Hi Chariedog,
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There is non duality in which all exists, how we see this is depending from the perspective we are able to see. (my opinion)
thanks for your perspective :) To increase the ability to see, we do the yoga or go to someone who just makes us see or both :P |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2016 : 1:14:18 PM
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Hi So-Hi,
thanks for the very good post! :)
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Just because a thing is possible does not make it
A. Safe
B. The thing one should be doing
C. What is actually needed
D. The proper thing depending upon which Ashram of life one is currently in.
Agree :)quote:
Ahem.. Paramahamsa Hariharananda if you do not mind due respect and all that. No?
Sry, I love to call the masters with sweet short names, not due to unrespect, just out of sweetness :P Yes Paramahamsa Swami Hariharananda Giri :)quote:
The thing to be cautious about is for others to read your emotional charged and encouraging words and think what is true for you as a unique individual is true for others as well or to give others such an impression.
That's true. These are happenings within the life-flow here and hopefully the reader knows that I'm sharing the observation and inviting into inquiry about it. Everyones body-mind karma mix is individual and needs individual attention.quote:
For exams I have known 4 types of Students of Paramahamsa Hariharananda. .. Which one are you? based on your sharing it would appear you believe yourself to be category #4
Ripe is hard to define, the body-mind is obviously capable and perhaps more body-minds are capable for this than they make themselves believe. The question surely is, if body-mind capability is enough as I feel ripeness in the crown-case is similiar to having fullfilled all worldy desires. Exactly that point which Mangalananda was nudging at ;)quote:
If a person is not ripe for these practices then how will they become ripe? ... Answer = by doing something else that does not involve the crown. A yogin must purify the nadis first.
Ok your ripeness definition is purity of the nadis. Purity of the nadis can be brought about in few months, but as we both know the process of longterm purity down to the karmic impressions in the chakras needs much more time.quote:
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But at the same time, it is obviously always possible to just leave it as it is and directly merge into nonduality and freedom from all the process by means of going up.
Yes once you know how it is always possible, but escapism is not the reason you incarnated here is it? Gee wiz hmm I think I will take birth just so I can wander around for X amount of years blasted out of my mind just hanging out until the body perishes. Nahhh didn’t think so.
Hehe Surely not, but again the mind has its concepts of what is right and what to do or not to do. Nonduality and being among men does not contradict each other, so that would not be the inquiry here in regards to the crown. More so the possibility of incooperating it earlier into one's life than the believe that it must come at the very end of body-mind purification and transformation.quote:
Caution not to become Type 2 or Type 3 all the while thinking you are Type 4
Thanks for the caution, but no worry. Balance has always been an auto-priority here  quote:
No harm in practicing to have a firm understanding of how to but once that firm understanding is established one must decide if they have fulfilled there life mission for being here if they have well then time to consider sanyas and becoming a monk then to the Crown and beyond why hold back?
Do you feel like both is not possible, means living daily life with fully open crown? We know from Peter being a husband and father with intense crown focus. I did not have the chance to speak with him about his experiences along the years and decades, perhaps Orangesky had the chance? :)quote:
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It is just a matter of collecting prana and concentrating it in the crown. Thats all. Nothing else to do and nothing else to wait for.
Ouch such a rough utilitarian approach might as well dig a bullet out of a gunshot victim with a gardening shovel.
There is much, much more to it than this. It is not just prana which is the subtle form of breath there is also mind dissolving which is the subtle form of prana followed by both intellect and instinct. Then you have unity.
Yes, therefore concentrating prana by means of all other faculties including mind and attention. In other words concentrating all waves into the stillness of the atompoint.
Also thanks for your words in regards to nirvikalpa samadhi. You are also writing:quote:
All in it’s own good time better to discharge your duties to life while slowly learning how to voluntarily leave the body instead of becoming evicted
Don't you think you can keep the body and still go into nirvikalpa? Many yogis were living like this. The heart beat comes back. But yes it also may not come back :) There is one hint of Jaggi Vasudev, that I feel is very much valuable. He says, that a peace of metal on the body prevents accidental no-return exit from it, which according to him can happen in deep samadhi, if in some way the samadhi is disturbed. For that reason he advices his close disciples to wear a metal ring or some other metal around the neck or the arm. I have seen some KYI yogis who also had a Yukteswar bangle (copper, silver, gold) either as a small ring or on their arms.
But you are right, I also had the experiences of leaving the body, leaving this time-space continuum, also of the body-mind rotting (vision) and me remaining. In another time, the body was laying there, me being present, crown of the body active, but no interface for "me" to do anything with the body. In that sense and I know you also had similiar experiences, one can assume that it is not possible to keep the body with intense crown focus. On the other hand we have good successful examples too. To me it always feels like these are the fears of the mind, preventing from the ultimate dissolution, although despite of its happening nothing may be lost, not even the body and that trust is necessary in this.
Thank you again for the detailed answers, very much appreciated as you also have many deep practical experiences :)
All love  |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2016 : 1:24:54 PM
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Hi Christi,
thanks for all the links, can't view them though :P But thanks for the clarification!quote:
Essentially, with regards to waiting before going to the crown with attention, it is only necessary to wait until a sufficient degree of purification has taken place in the lower chakras.
Yes, Yogani's take on it is clear. :)
Thanks for all the replies!
Peace and happy practice! :D
PS: Holy continues with full chakra transformation, Gurunath again inspired too bigly :D But the crown is incooperated again, by means it has happened here for 6 years. There is also an inbetween possibility in regards to the crown, will come back to this in the Gurunath thread at some time.
All love :) |
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sunyata
USA
1513 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2016 : 2:06:57 PM
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quote:
Sure I know the Giri's, we had a long discussion on them in another thread, exploring the various alternations to the kriya practice, startin with Sri Yukteswar Giri. You write it does not matter, but I feel like this makes all the difference. The chain of causes and effects are not random and your genes are filled with Giri causes, people who have practiced and created a strong energy lineage of successfully realized people.
. Thank you for your perspective. It probably did help.
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Speaking of one with creation, was it just your realization by being part of it, or was it one in the ultimate sense, or in other words, have yo been one with Holy aswell, including all kowing, all being, all capable?
Honestly, I'm not very good in matching my experience with the various concepts in books. The experience was non duality with no mind.All I can say- Yes, one with Holy, to the carpet in the living, laptop, sofa, trees, cars, people- everything. You know, the universe had it all planned- it arranged everything around in my Life before the awakening happened.I went through the awakening during my pregnancy. I was still working when I was going through the different awakening experiences. I ended up taking an early pregnancy leave and amazingly this transition happened during this period. When one is in this state, one is not functional - my mom took care of me.
Just wanted to add- nonduality with mind(quieter mind)in everyday living is experienced these days. The essence of the revelation never leaves you. The sense of "I" is necessary to function in this creation. At the same time, one sees the "I" for what it is. Then one lives this saying " Yoga Chitta Vritti Nirodha". I believe most of the AYP practioners lives this.
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It is just my experience that there are countless types of nonduality in a sense So-Hi speaks of expanded states of consiousness. These states can be induced by adressing the one or other chakra, repeatedly resulting in the same degree and refinement of nonduality, the intensity and spectrum being also dependent upon its activity (basedon the amount of prana flooding through it) and purity. In regards to no-mind, there can be no-mind without nonduality, no-mind with nonduality, no-mind with various degrees of refinement of nonduality. The differentation happens when mental activity starts, not while it is absent.
I have been in and out of different expanded states of consciousness. The experience above of non duality there is no "I" to have the various experiences. Everything is Truth, That.
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Would you like to be more precise or link me to the experience posts? Thanks :)
The awakening happened 2010 with the non duality experience in early 2011. Everything felt integrated beginning of 2015. All of my post before that, I was just trying to put the pieces together.
I was born questioning existence and even asked the adults around me. I was told by them to focus in school and have a successful career. Since, everyone was doing the same and that was the answers that I received, I followed right along, simultaneously, inquiring why I was here? who am I?. I came to a point in Life, where I felt I had done all of those things -a decent job and all that. But there was still an emptiness inside. One morning at my altar before heading out for work- I asked the divine- there has to be more...what is it?
I got pregnant few months later- now the urgency was ten times. A growing human inside- a miracle- how?...so I begged and begged. It was divine shaktipat. The divine came in the form of a loving lady and turned the body into light. Lots of purging after. Various spiritual experiences that I already mentioned and then the revelation that finally quenched the 20 plus years of thirst.
quote:
This question you should ask Shiva and his first students, the Sapta Rishis and why they were bowing down and why till now the student having become one with all continues to bow down to the master who taught him the method and helped him to reach it. In my experience it is an absolute natural happening, in great joy and thankfullness the body-mind bows down deeply and by this is filled with ever more refined love and beauty. It is how life loves it to happen and therefore it does. Madhukar, a student of Papaji, one of my beloved Jnana Yoga masters was also asked the same question. He replied, that the guru takes away aspects of your ego while bowing down. He is fully realized and omnipresent and keeps bowing down to Papaji and Ramana before every satsang, he also bows down to all those who attend. Bowing opens the heart and makes the life energies flow up into the higher chakras, dissolving you into nonduality. Bowing down also gives the realized the opportunity to touch your third eye or crown chakra. Bowing down is the very first kriya practice of all Giri lineages.
Coming to someone sitting in font of others, it is not a matter of pedestal, it is just how life is. Everything spins around that which attracts and holds everything. Atoms have their center around which the electrons spin, formations of atoms having become planets and stars spin around a center which attracts and in our solar case nurishes. The joy of a realized naturally attracts people, making them spin around the source of joy and nurishment. In this sense how not to love the source of joy, the source of love and healing, how not to bown down. Yes, you are this joy, you are this love, still the body-mind will be nautrally attracted to a greater manifestation of this joy and love that you are, always and at all times. The only one complaining can only be the words in the head.
Being born in that tradition, it is familiar to me. I have always been a rebel to some cultural belief system because I always knew we are "one". The reason I moved to the West in my late teens was because I was tired of it. I found out that the West has it's own challenges. I finally realized what I was was searching was for "liberation".
I feel so lucky to be able to pick the best of both worlds. I still bow down when the social setting ask for it. I would feel bowing down is okay- for e.g. if the Guru has 100 devotees and they bowed to his/her feet, the Guru would reciprocate and bow down to the the 100 devotees feet. Since there is no difference between the two. My mind prefers it this way.
quote:
Explorations and remarks of those who can reveal enourmous silence, love and nonduality like in the case of Mangalananda still makes one think if the own approach is not too limited. At least I have always stayed open for improvements :)
I agree with you 100%. Certain body minds are able to transmit the divine more than others. Infact I'm looking forward to a lot of spiritual vacations in the future like the one you just took. Who knows we may be able to practice together someday. Ultimately it's the merging of the non dual with the dual. :)
Sunyata
P.S.- I have a lot of respect for Shiva and Sapta Rishis and everyone. They are in my altar and my heart. I just don't care much for man made (ego) social customs that creates a difference between humanity. It's probably my ego saying this as well. Letting it go in silence.
Edit~Added few lines.
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Edited by - sunyata on Jun 02 2016 7:48:54 PM |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Jun 02 2016 : 3:58:47 PM
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Discussions between Holy and myself.
so-hi said: quote:
quote: No harm in practicing to have a firm understanding of how to but once that firm understanding is established one must decide if they have fulfilled there life mission for being here if they have well then time to consider sanyas and becoming a monk then to the Crown and beyond why hold back?
Holy Said: quote:
Do you feel like both is not possible, means living daily life with fully open crown? We know from Peter being a husband and father with intense crown focus. I did not have the chance to speak with him about his experiences along the years and decades, perhaps Orangesky had the chance? :)
I am not even certain a fully opened crown is "a thing"
I know it is possible to live from the Fontanel and having done so on purpose do not think it is appropriate for most to force it by sadhana specifically designed for this purpose.
At the same time though as time passes I am being drawn more and more there anyway what with more years behind me than ahead so there is no need to force things. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2016 : 1:30:30 PM
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Hello Sunyata,
sorry for the late reply, life is very intense here since the vacation :)quote:
Honestly, I'm not very good in matching my experience with the various concepts in books. The experience was non duality with no mind.All I can say- Yes, one with Holy, to the carpet in the living, laptop, sofa, trees, cars, people- everything.
Wow, supreme!! :) Lovely :D Was it a one-time happening or did it reoccur? Do you have access to it by any intentional means?
It is rare to find people having had the experience except the masters giving their programs :P Our samadhi boy also experienced full oneness several times, the first events did happen by grace of the Giri lineage (Hariharananda and Prajnanananda). The later as far as I could get by his own practice under Gurunath's guidance and piercing the star. Mangalananda last year in a kriya weekend mentioned the first time in a dialog with a woman that she was successful with full oneness by means of the crown. While she was mentioning it, her body turned transparent and I could see the stars and planets through her for a brief time. With this the more casually speakable people diminish in this regard, therefore thanks for your sharing! :)quote:
When one is in this state, one is not functional - my mom took care of me.
Good mum! quote:
The awakening happened 2010 with the non duality experience in early 2011. Everything felt integrated beginning of 2015.
How many hours, days weeks, months did it take until you recovered to daily functioning? Don't have any input to this from the other too, but from Yogananda we remember that afterwards he had to clean up the floor and then he and Yukteswar were walking along the river. But these people were preparing their body-minds like crazy and may had a smoother transition.quote:
I would feel bowing down is okay- for e.g. if the Guru has 100 devotees and they bowed to his/her feet, the Guru would reciprocate and bow down to the the 100 devotees feet. Since there is no difference between the two. My mind prefers it this way.
Sounds all fine Also do see it more as a natural happening than a forced one. A good friend of mine, few years ago, came to the Satsang of Madhukar (his first time meeting a guru  ) and he neither did bow down, nor took a namaste greeting, just said hello hehe. Later in the satsang when Madhukar was pushing the scene into nonduality, the friend also blissed out heftily and was loughing nonstop. Later on seeing him again he greeted with namaste too and the head bowed down a little
My own mother would never bow down, maximum greet with Namaste. Reason is, our spiritual origin is muslim and sufi teaching based, god is only invisible and formless, everythign else is his creation. Greetings among realizeds do only happen by means of kissing the hand, touching the hand with your forehead or by keeping the right hand on the heart and slightly nodding with the head or by means of hugging and kissing :P The first time she came in contact with Gurunath was in a school of the Samadhi boy, where all had gathered and were talking nonstop. Gurunath was still on his way to come. Then suddenly an extreme downpouring from everywhere and nowhere dawned upon everyone, from full volume speech to zero everyone became silent and the minds were stopping into bliss. I could not believe seeing my mother bowing down to the ground, everythign was bathing in peace and bliss. One lady could speak out, he has come. Then few seconds later a car came and the samadhi boy entered and said, you all received the first transmission, then Gurunath also came him. Sitting directly in front of him, my mother got more infusion and since then she is the first one bowing down LOL
But do see what you mean.. quote:
I just don't care much for man made (ego) social customs that creates a difference between humanity.
..yes, especially when it comes to fake situations, also those which are unnatural by any means. In any of these cases, this body here also does not bow.quote:
Infact I'm looking forward to a lot of spiritual vacations in the future like the one you just took. Who knows we may be able to practice together someday.
You are very much welcome I feel that in some way all who have participated in this forum will be more connected in real life the coming years and decades. The hindrance of time and space dissolves continuously, Yogani's retreat book also gave the strong impulse to connect and practice together more. There is also one base which transcends different means of practice and that is silence. Time will show how it all evolves
Thanks for your reply!
Happy practice all :D
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2016 : 1:55:19 PM
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Hi So-Hi,
quote:
I am not even certain a fully opened crown is "a thing"
I know it is possible to live from the Fontanel and having done so on purpose do not think it is appropriate for most to force it by sadhana specifically designed for this purpose.
Yes also do not feel like it is a primary means for any mass public. To know this option is still very valuable. Few decades ago this possibility was not at hand, now you can read it up on the net :P As you say, the individual must decide (or the nondual just does its thing as with Sunyata :D
Sometimes it may be apropriate to leave the golden cage and fly out too. Am thankful that there are people like Mangalananda who keep the door open so to speak :)
Dear So-Hi, you had reported about your crown experiences. I would still love to hear one more time your experience of the pulseless state and the star-entrance. Remember, that you were practicing first kriya KYI in pretty intense amounts for some months. Some more details and insight would be very much welcome! As we know from Yogananda, the stoppage of the heart-beat is only the beginning to a more complete stoppage of astral and then causal phenomena to come to nirvikalpa samadhi (from his Bhagavat Gita commentaries). From Hans we also know that Nirvikalpa aka complete oneness may be seconds or minutes away after the latest heartbeat.
By means of classic kriya the heart beat can start stopping after 1728 pranayamas (either in one shot or over time). But a more thorough stop leading to nirvikalpa samadhi obviously takes the higher amount of 20k pranayamas. It feels like the KYI approach with the crown accelerates this urge in the system, in this manner your insights and sharing would be very valuable!
Thank you very much and greetings to all :)
PS: @Sunyata, did forget about this: do you remember any body-mind processes occuring after/while the spine/brain alignment which resembles what the kriya yogis speak about in regards to the heart beat, the third eye, the star and so on? Thank you very much too! |
Edited by - Holy on Jun 06 2016 2:02:09 PM |
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So-Hi
USA
481 Posts |
Posted - Jun 06 2016 : 4:10:12 PM
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Hi Holy. The truth of the matter is very simple neither KYI nor other forms of Kriya led to the pulse-less state. In my opinion Kriya of any kind is incapable of bringing one to the pulse-less state.
What happened was very simple the practice of KYI Kriya led to the familiarity of the circuit of the fontenal in conjunction with naturally energetically forming of the tongue into Kechari Mudra.
Kechari to me is like falling upwards a wonderful thing when it is ready to take place on its own.
From this I came to know of the bifurcated true nature of Shushumna how one branch travels straight up and the other through the brain to the brow where the nose forms its root between the eyes.
What Kriya did was awaken old memories of former lives and how a thing is done by moving prana in the spine and clearing up sufficient amounts of blockages.
For example today I had to go and take pictures for my employment of a property I lived at 12 years ago. I have not had good reason to drive there in well..... nearly 12 years so from the place I found myself I had to recall the best route but honestly I could not so what I did is simply trusted in my inner feeling self and drove letting the inner self place me where I needed to go because I could feel it remembers the path to take and soon the road became familiar yet I still passed the entrance and had to turn around to go in.
For Example: We go practicing Kriya the Pranayam of Parmahamsa Hariharananda it has been completed Kechari is in place level 3 - 4 Kechari to be specific and there is good conduction and very high energy states in the spine.
Then the inner knowing self not much different than the one who guided my driving clues me in and intuitively tells me what to do next. I follow that guidance and the rest follows.
These energy states are magnetic / electric / filled with extreme pleasure what people call BLISS for lack of a better word when the mind becomes interwoven with these energies a different dimension of space and time become your reality all is extreme enjoyment beyond the most pleasurable sensation one can imagine and just when you think there can be no more another wave blasts through you and they come closer and closer together rushing straight up into the highest centers in the head and you become that higher vibrational frequency of waves crashing faster and faster closer and closer together at some point the transition takes place.
You set the stage with AYP Practices as well but due to the non directional global approach the transitions can be a bit more unpredictable.
No matter what you practice you must receive the inner guidance to go to NIRVAKALPA SAMADHI.
All systems are just setting the stage that is all.
Penetrating the 5 pointed star also happens this way.
There is no particular practice one may ascribe by saying oh yes you must be practicing Yoni Mudra to penetrate the star although that has happened.
The secret of penetrating the white star is no secret at all it just takes introversion of the senses between the brows until you see it then you use all your focus to hold it still and the next thing you know either you enter or you do not.
I am certain there is another factor involved beyond self determination and will and you may call that the grace of God assisting.
Unlike the Nirvakalpa state there is no ramping up of energy taking over at first in the spine then later inner guidance telling you what to do in order to equalize with another dimension of being.
Once the inner world has been revealed you have it all but it might take a while to grow into it :) and you are satisfied and then there is no purpose to repeating it. In fact the desire to ever see anything again is gone because quite frankly you have seen it all and there is more important levels of being that do not have a sight analogy which is where your heart really wants to be.
Things like this happening are important mile markers along the way until you have them then to repeat them is just to go searching for scenery to entertain yourself = boring and most certainly "NOT IT"
Concerning Penetrating the white star, the highest Samadhis are a different matter they create a permanent addiction that urges you on no matter what to completion.
I mean after all what if Captain Kirk was satisfied discovering Green Girls just think of all the fun he would have missed with meeting the advanced races like the Organians?
Sadhana the Final Frontier.... These are the voyages of the ................
So to go into Nirvakalpa Samadhi it requires a tremendous amount of Energy to align with this dimension of being. But I suspect that is just the novices rough way of doing things until they get the feel for it then it is probably as easy as how the tongue slips into Kechari when the time for it to do so makes all pliable slippery warm and welcome.
The danger in the practice however is that you might just wind up leaving a dead body so as long as you have duties in this world to perform it is probably best not to go there on a regular basis unless it becomes easy and natural to do so.
So here is the abject truth of the matter Kriya is nothing special it is just purification that is all you can get the same from AYP.
That is part of the truth another part is sitting your ass down and becoming introverted on a regular schedule so your awareness becomes more able to function within and in different dimensions of mind and being itself.
The next part of this truth is that energies start moving within you giving extreme satisfaction and bliss.
The next part is your inner knowing self takes over and then you know how to do things with this good feeling energy.
Then you do so and go beyond all words.
Then you return and can share the parts you feel like sharing.
Then your daily life becomes beautiful and you continue living and doing and changing just as Yogani describes so well.
Then it is time to take up the purification method and all the props that help on go from extroversion to introversion.
Then it is time to leave your seat and brush your teeth go to work and all the things you did before but the you who is doing these things is not the same you who started and with each day a new you continues to be who you are which does lead to the realization that your own personality and memories are nothing but a convenient fiction and a prop the same as all the Sadhana techniques....
Reality well that is something else and there are no words.
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Edited by - So-Hi on Jun 06 2016 5:19:14 PM |
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Swami Mangalananda Giri
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