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Holy
796 Posts |
 Posted - Nov 24 2013 : 8:11:01 PM
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Hello friends,
life brought me to a kriya yoga weekend with this lady.
http://www.kriya.org/acharya/11_md.jpg
She teaches the kriya of Hariharananda and Prajnananda. It is VERY different to Lahiris kriya, it is even different compared with Yogeshwarananda's kriya (see report here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....PIC_ID=11784), but it is more close to Yogeshwarananda's kriya than to the Lahiri/Gurunath.
Friday evening was the introduction part. I brought a friend and my daddy to her, just for fun, no intention. But then the shocking suprise, this woman pushed the whole group into savikalpa samadhi for 2 hours nonstop, holy sh** ^^ It did not reach Gurunath's intensity, but the continuity.. :D And the easyiness with which she revealed silent formless bliss presence, even while she was talking in parallel. At some points where she was not only talking about kriya or other stuff but was also hinting at this revelation of formless beauty, it reached such intensities where with open physical eyes the whole room melted into nothing, barely one could see her head in an ocean of bliss. It was crazy, love that woman for this :D My friend was shocked aswell, my daddy blissed out completely ^^
Ok, so the result, the intention was just to say hello and look by, to see how she is doing, but after this the motivation came for attending the kriya weekend with her. Next morning on saturday, she even pushed the shivapath 3 degrees higher and with such an ease, like it is a peace of cake, like it is the most easiest to reveal eternal formles godpresence. The extacy was roaring through all nadis here, everything was melting in extreme silent bliss, with open eyes the room changed colours, became deadly black, came back to white, timespace play, love flowing and loughing, welcome to savikalpa samadhi induced by a woman, wow ! :)
The kriya initiation took forever... :P I like the all in one approach of Gurunath most, at least she took on 4 people at once, it still took hours. Ok, we still had not learnt the techniques, this had to be started on late afternoon, thankfully the whole group at the same time :P What to say, the technique is so different, but still it is very nice. It is less complex and way shorter compared to Yogeshwarananda's kriya, like a simplified but also pimped variant of it.
Yogeshwarananda's kriya: nearly no mantra, some breath, a lot of awareness based stuff, strong kutastha focus
Mangalalanda's kriya: no mantra, lots of breath, some awareness stuff, strong crown focus
Gurunath's kriya: mantra, more breath, some awareness, balanced chakra focus
Hans kriya (seems to be close to Lahiri's orig kriya): a lot of mantra and breath, some awareness, some kutastha focused
So till Saturday evening we only had the aftereffect of her blissing and peacing us out, then after the first group kriya meditation, going out of the class back home, bam, the crown effect.. very nice :) Not much to say about it, the after effect was good and the body still ok. Slight tendency that the body may become not so ok, but it was all very good still. Later on some unpleasing energetic feelings arose, energy nausea so to speak, refined nadis on the front of the body were obviously opening on more refined levels.
Sunday two of that kriya sessions happened, she was not blissing us out anymore. The crown chakra became very active here after the morning session. Afterwards nondual savikalpa samadhi happened while walking home, extreme silence on a very refined level revealed godliness, also some kind of godly visions of silence happened, like seeing the potential of being and moving in this extreme silence. Unspeakably beautiful, but then looking at the skin colour and body feeling it became clear that this was already too much.. the bliss of silence was so in parallel, noone can ever perceive this else then through being or entering it itself. The body-mind cannot express it, like it is a complete different frequency range, but you cannot speak of frequency, it is the mystery of a god-bliss dimension within silence itself.
Then the final kriya session on Sunday late afternoon. All very peaceful and nice, the aftereffect was already more smooth body-mind wise, very sweet love-bliss, very beautiful love. Most probably this is also partly influenced by that woman's field. The body-mind reached some degree of being stunned already, the crown was opening more and more, surrender of physicality, loosing of lifeinterest, being overwhelmed into godliness. Phew, it comes fast, shouldn't it come more gradual, in tune with the happening of relative wishes and their dissolution? Thoughts like that appeared here and there. It is crazy, can't comment much on it as this comes into the range of longterm kriya of that variant and lineage. One is entering silent godliness, but it feels not totally ok, like things have been skept, unhappiness on the relative level in parallel to the god-bliss happiness. a strange dual state within nonduality rising.
Such effects did not exist with Gurunath's kriya, there everythign happens smooth and when it happens, all is fine and is "allowed" or good, like the time has come. With this kriya, it felt like, woah, but this happens before its time, or soemthing like, is this skippage ok? Hard to say...
After the last kriya session I asked this lady, who for this body mind here appeared to be sagelike, like a mini buddha, self realized and more. The question was, "how long does it take for a starter according to your observation to reach godrealization with this kriya?" Her answer was, that it may take about 20 years, but after asking again, she replied that she does not know anyone having reached godrealization so far with it. She said, that she herself has not reached it, she gave the hint that Prajnananda may have reached it. But she said, that there is still enough time and to the eyes here she was about 40 years old and it looked like she was confident that she will reach it sooner or later. This does not sound so motivating, but at least she was honest and hey, her godstate is crazy beyond words, so all bliss-paradies already :D
One more event, at two points in the weekend Hariharananda came into the mind here. In the first round, he came out of the formless bliss, then had a mental form, then fused with this bodymind, so that this body-mind here and Hari's was one, then extreme formless love-bliss coming into the physics, melting the sceney like that of Mangalalanda's revelation. Hari the super god :) The other experience with him, after the second kriya session he again appeared as a mental image, then suddenly the whole moment, everything was him, and it was all god, hari the one god, so was the experience, immense deep wise love was filling the moment and making everythign one. I love this Hari, his students spoke of him as the samadhi-uber-master. For sure his extrme love for the crown did show itself through extreme formless relevation the whole weekend, may it be through Mangalalanda or directly through his presence.
This kriya is good, strong, it is not Lahiri's kriya, but still has great potential. You cannot practice it in too much amounts as the crown will own you very fast, for that reason also the body-mind transformation is delayed, silence comes very fast very intensly. Some may be rdy for this, some not. There is lots of hatha in that kriya, the body gets stretched very nicely, the sidechannels are purified and opened very nicely, the inner of sushumna is adressed only indirectly, for this reason karmic releases also do not really happen or at least consiously I could not see much karma releasing, like with Gurunaths kriya. The life happenigns will be different, it is for sure a different path with that aswell, who knows to what places and states it will bring you, but I give it more stars than Yogeshwarananda's long complex kriya :P
Yogeshwarananda's kriya is ideal for monks or very introverted lifestyles. Gurunath's kriya is ideal for householder yogis, full in life yogis who need a lot of strength and godly backup in all life happenings. Hari's kriya as given by Mangalalanda seems to be somewhere inbetween, but because of the intense crown focus, can't comment on midterm stability. It does feel least stable among the kriyas or with the greatest potential of extreme beyond control forced surrender that may happen earlier or later due to the unspeakable crown opening.
Mangalananda is highly realized to the experience here, but looking at her you would never guess or believe. Only by her "like nothing" revelation of extreme silence you get to know how much she has already advanced. And then she still speaks of no godrealization, while those who speak of it cannot reveal the same intensity of formless godbeauty :P I think that says more than enough about her, if you have the chance to see her, at least visit the introduction evening. The bliss will be with you for several days ^^ Bring her some flowers if you can :)
http://www.e-mistika.lv/img_zinjas/...a%20Giri.jpg
Peace and happy continuous practice to all :) |
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USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2013 : 1:13:30 PM
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Holy,
Great post! I recently took initiation from this group 2 months ago and I am very happy with the techniques and results.
About 3 years ago, I drove down to Miami (3 hr drive) to check out this group during a retreat they were having. I was very fortunate to sit directly across from Swami Prajnanananda during lunch. A very peaceful experience.
Before lunch, I was sitting in the meditation hall for a ceremony they were having. After which, they started meditation (guided) and I did not know I was supposed to leave the hall. After the session, I asked someone what that was and was told kriya. It was almost unrecognizable. Because it was so different from the Lahiri kriya I had been doing, I did not move forward with initiation, in spite of the extreme calmness I felt. I remember thinking that this form of kriya is completely whacked and I was paranoid about all the crown work - after years of reading warnings on this site.
2 months ago they had a teacher come to Orlando (1 hr away) and for some reason I decided to go. I must say I am very impressed with the results that I am getting. 5 to 10 minutes of this kriya puts me in the same state that used to take an hour or more to get to with the kriya that I learned from other lineages. Also, I am now totally convinced that focus on the crown is imperative.
Regarding the state of enlightenment of Swami Prajnanananda, I found the following on their website:
"… Three years later, Paramahamsa Prajnanananda was given the title of Paramahamsa, the highest title given to monks and saints who attain the summit of God-realization, by his Gurudev on August 10, 1998, on his birthday."
I can't wait to see how much different their second kriya is.
Bob
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2013 : 2:09:39 PM
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Hi Bob!
Could you please elaborate more on the results of your practice of KYI and the results that you had of conventional Kriya?
Exactly what was your Kriya practice? Who was your teacher?
Thanks for sharing your experiences |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2013 : 6:13:10 PM
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Hi Bob,
thank your for your report :)
5-10 minutes does at best tickle me a little, but if it does something for you :P Even if you do the main techniques which are 5 in their smallest amount and variant, you would need about ~15 minutes, so do you skip some of them or was this just to give a ratio?
Here 1 hour Gurunath's kriya does a lot more on other parts of the body-mind, but a lot less on the crown and side channels. But still I know what you are hinting at, and it is true, the state of happiness, love and beauty comes really fast. 30 minutes and the crown already opens the portals to nonduality. 45-60 minutes and it seems like soon I can write a book or something :P (This forum is a better place though :D)
As Will Power asked, your experiences would be welcome to read :)
Thanks and peace |
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2013 : 8:50:05 PM
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Will Power and Holy,
I usually do about 6 to 9 first KYI kriyas. Keep in mind that one complete KYI kriya is 12 breaths, so this would be equivalent to 72 to 108 normal kriyas. Typically after 1 or 2 of these, I start getting very interiorized. Sometimes to the point where there are no thoughts and I'm having to remember to breath again after the exhalation. This is a very nice feeling and I am hoping this is the beginning of the breathless state.
Other things that I have noticed starting up or becoming more intense in the past 2 months is the vibration in the spine at certain chakra points, and a very subtle, deep low frequency (sub woofer) sound from the back of my head that sound similar to when a space ship approaches in Star Wars, except very subtle. This is not loud enough to keep me from sleeping at night yet.
Also, I have continued to do a few kriya 2 Thokar from another lineage after the KYI routine. On the first chin strike, there is some kind of energy surge coming up from the root chakra that was not there before KYI. This is interesting because it only happens on the first Thokar. It is like a bunch of energy was built up doing the KYI stuff and is discharged during that first chin strike. I'm still trying to figure this one out.
One more thing, I have continued to do one form or another of Navi kriya with moola bandha before the KYI routine. I have been doing this for a while and I think it aids the KYI routine.
Bob |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Dec 09 2013 : 9:20:30 PM
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Hi Bob,
do you practice the other main elements besides KYI kriya pranayama which you obviously do in high amounts :P
The experience here is, that all together including the more subtle practices do the magic of opening the crown very strongly and yet keep the whole thing in balance.
Thanks for the reply, I think Will Power's question is not answered though, he may chime in again :P
Peace |
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Dec 10 2013 : 05:47:08 AM
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Holy,
I do the forward bending (love that one) and the guru pranam (which is similar to Swami Satyananda Saraswati's second kriya tech - from "kundalini tantra"). The navi kriya that I do is really from Swami Satyananda (or Motoyama) main exercise to awaken kundulini (mixing prana and aprana) with moola bandha added. I also do 12 rounds of Satyananda's maha mudra and maha bedha mudra combined in the morning session. Do the maha mudra portion at the top of the inhale and the maha bedha mudra at the bottom of the exhale. This has everything in it all at once - Sambavi mudra, the triple locks, umani mudra. SS said that these 2 are the most important kriyas (I don't know if he ever combined them into one) and if you only have limited time, do these. The KYI maha mudra seems to me to be too much like just a stretching exercise since they removed the triple locks. This is ok in itself and I do it once a day in the afternoon session instead of SS maha mudra bedha combination. Also, I never really liked doing the triple locks and the forward stretching in the same technique. That is why I like SS maha mudra (without the bending) and the KYI stretching separate.
Bob |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2013 : 7:03:10 PM
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Hi Bob,
thank you for your detailed report. I also like the orig maha mudra more than KYI's variant, as it does more, but the KYI maha mudra does some aspects differently which are more suitable for the crown opening than the orig maha mudra. Same goes for KYI jyoti, KYI kriya pranayama, the forward bending (like that very much aswell :)), etc. Every aspect of the orig kriya has been optimized for max and most smooth crown involvement with the whole body-mind. At least that is the observation here.
One more question to you, do you feel the grace of Hari flowing after your routine? If I do add an element from another practice system into a set of practices from a master, I cannot perceive the masters grace anymore. E.g. if I practice Hari's kriya as given without anything else, Hari comes with GREAT joy and love and pulls me into nonduality again and again ad again and plays with me the whole day till the next session. If I mix somethign else into the combo, Hari is absent.
The same observation here with Gurunath's kriya, if I keep his kriya without anythign else, Gurunath is with me the whole day, making me enter into godliness to his understanding with immense support, giving tastes of crazy ecstatic godstates again and again. The moment I add something else into the routine, may it be before or afterwards or into it, Gurunath is not there anymore.. It is not like that Hari or Gurunath are fully not there anymore, but you come out of tune with them and with that their grace flow diminshes extremely.
Just tell you this, as to the experience here the progress with full tune and graceflow is MUCH higher than with any mixture, even though the mixture should be (per the logic of the mind) more effective or better, but the grace of the master is way more effective, at least that is the continuous observation here again and again and again..
How is your observation regarding this?
Peae and love to you, thanks again for your posts :)
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Edited by - Holy on Dec 11 2013 7:37:41 PM |
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Dec 11 2013 : 9:39:56 PM
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Holy,
Actually, my experience is the opposite. Certain techniques from Satyananda have the effect of causing the breath to suspend later on in the routine. I believe it has something to do with the longer intentional breath retentions on top and bottom of the breath, and if practiced before the KYI pranayam, induces more of an automatic breath suspension here and there during the pranayam. When I don't do this before the KYI routine, I could pretty much guarantee that there will be no automatic breath suspension. Also, it is my experience that the most amount of calm/bliss/whatever occurs during these unintentional pauses in breath and as stated before, I believe this to be the beginning phase of the breathless state. Next is to increase the frequency and duration that these occurs - how to do that - I'm not sure.
My plan is to experiment with some deep breathing with a ratio of 8,8,8,8 seconds or more and see if this has the same effect when starting KYI as the Satyananda stuff has. This may confirm that my theory that intentional holding of the breath at the top and bottom during deep breathing leads to automatic (unplanned - unintentional) periods of breath suspension latter on in the pranayam. If this works, the next step is to try doing only KYI but increase the hold at the top and bottom of the pranayam in the early cycles and see if this leads to automatic suspension on later cycles of the pranayam.
Regarding Gurunath, I was really fired up about him 4 years ago but did not want to fly out to California. Then I heard that he had authorized teachers initiating on his behalf and I took initiation in Orlando by a 26 year old teacher. The results - Nothing. I say nothing because my made up practice from kriya stuff I found on-line was more intense than what this new routine produced. If Gurunath is indeed a true guru, capable of producing profound experiences during initiation (as advertised), it would be best for him not to have these so-called teachers running around the country initiating people. If he comes to Florida some day I may consider meeting him, if the retreat price is reasonable. As far as the techniques his organization teaches, there is nothing special that can't be found on-line.
Bob
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Dec 12 2013 : 1:10:03 PM
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Hi Bob,
I also had the experience of way more improved effects, I'm with you in this. What I meant was the specific experience of grace flow from the master that is connected to the technique he gives.
But you are very right, the felt intensity of the masters grace is dependant upon the advancement of the initiator and/or your own advancement in refined perceptions, and the amount and intensity of the practice which will attract the master and his grace with greatest intensity.
Not that there is not universal grace happening all the time, for sure whatever you do you are graced and supported and loved :) By all and everyone :) The hint above relates to the bonus-grace of a master, I cannot give you a good taste if you had no such experience so far, other than to say: it is like you are partaking of the grace that showers upon the master fused with the grace that is happening to you, resulting in something that exceeds all self effort regarding spiritual practices xx-times. Can't explain it better than this :P But it is true, it only happened here with some kind of intense practice of the masters practice routine. Only KYI's kriya is so hefty here, ~2 hours per day is enough to make me not come out of nonduality anymore thanks to Hari :P
Coming to Gurunath, the difference between being initiated by him, vs. being initiated by one of his advanced students vs. being initiated by one of his starter teachers is CRAZY HUGE. When you are initiated by Gurunath, you will not be able to close your mouth during the whole weekend :P When you are initiated by one of his advanced students you will be inspired like hell together with some godly experiences, but the gap to Gurunath will still be unmeasurable. This man has become a living realized god, can't say it otherwise. I know many teachers of Gurunath who could learn more from me, so surely I understand the results you had. Still if you keep up about 72 kriyas or more, Gurunath's grace and presence will enter your daily life very much perceivable and in ways you will not believe what can happen then.
Regarding the breathless state, I had written something last month about it here: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....12970#116239
In short, kevala kumbhaka can happen due to many causes. You can surpress the breathflow by holding the breath and if regularly done the breath will also cease to happen out of itself. This for me was never healthy though. The breath can also suspend if you melt into presence, then there is no breath, but somehow this is also not healthy here. The breath can also suspend due to DM of AYP e.g., but that was never healthy here aswell. I think different body-minds will react differently to this.
I did not have much breathless states out of KYI, the interesting insight and experience here was, that the crown in action does not care wheter there is breath flowing or not, independant of it it reveals EXTREME silence and beauty like I never had due to breathless states without crown activity at all. And this combo of breath still flowing and silent love beauty revealing was also VERY healthy here and for this very stable and good. Surely, when the body-mind is prepared and the crown also devours the breath fully, we will speak of somethign way more deeper. Yet I was highly surprised what the crown can do.
But holding the breath again and again without holding it too much is still healthy and has very good results here too. If your body can handle longer kumbhak phases then why not, you can increase the duration of that holding gradually. Mangalananda e.g. answered the question how long to hold the breath during KYI kriya pranayma and she said: as long as you can :P
I like the book of Satyananda Saraswati aswell, had learned much about the chakras and kshetrams from him. Also his hints about the mudras are very good.
Peace and keep it up, sounds all good. |
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Will Power
Spain
415 Posts |
Posted - Dec 13 2013 : 01:52:07 AM
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| Thanks a lot for sharing Bob and Holy |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2013 : 6:59:07 PM
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Planned breath retention is really not needed with this form of Kriya kevala kumbhaka will come on its own. When mind is absorbed , dissolved in the triple divine qualities and the Prana takes over it is always correct and healthy, refreshing even.
When it comes to mixing I have not found it to be that great. Advanced Yogi's like Hariharananda have already figured it out quite a bit better than lay people. Still curiosity will be satisfied. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Dec 15 2013 : 8:57:38 PM
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Hi EK,
you are right, especially in KYI kriya as the crown is in the game, kevala kumbhaka is not even something to bother with :P May it be or not, the love beauty will be anyway :)
Happy practice :) |
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Dec 16 2013 : 9:43:33 PM
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Hi Holy and EK,
Regarding planned breath retention, if you are doing the KYI pranayam correctly, you are doing planned breath retention.
As far as mixing or altering the techniques, I would agree with you if they were taught to the student directly from the guru. These systems that are taught by organizations to many students by teachers that are far from full realization are designed to be a good generalized system for the majority of students. It is pretty widely accepted that Lahiri taught different variations of kriya to different students depending upon their needs. Also, in a talk years ago by Swami Satyananda Saraswati ("Systematic Course in Kriya …) he recommended students experiment with various techniques to find the ones that work best for them. This included the kriya techniques. He said to do the full number of kriyas for about 3 to 6 months and then you can vary the amounts and sequence, and eliminate some that aren't producing desired results.
A swami disciple of Satyananda said in the book "Moola Bandha: the Master Key" that the 3 main bandhas (commonly found in maha mudra) are at least as important as all the asanas and pranayams combined. Or something like that - I'm too lazy to grab the book. It's on page 2 - That is how important these are. I find that there is a hugh difference in the depth of meditation if I proceed the KYI routine with 20 minutes of Navi kriya (with moola bandha) or Satyanandas technique of mixing the prana with aprana. I think that this, coupled with all the crown work of KYI (which I love) is magic. Also, I love their forward bending technique (more crown work).
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2013 : 12:21:43 PM
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| One more thing. Were either of you told you can use a mantra during the KYI pranayam. My teacher didn't say anything about this but when I called the headquarters in Miami, I asked if it was ok to chant om in the chakras (during the breath retention). I was told that it was fine to do this. "If you have been given a mantra, use that one. Otherwise, use om." |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Dec 17 2013 : 7:41:41 PM
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Hi Bob,
Manga's kriya also includes breath retention in both ways (in/out). But there was no mantra instruction, are you sure this is not from the higher kriyas perhaps? :P
I heard that the higher kriyas will envolve mantras regarding the chakras, but the first kriya is without. Who did write to you regarding that instruction? But hey, it would make good sense if the second kriya would go in that direction :P
Navi kriya is also part of Gurunath's kriya and only he initiates into it, no other teacher of him does. I had written my eperiences regarding that kriya (which includes all mudras and bandhas) in the experience report 2013 (navi in the presence of Gurunath) and also in another thread about tummo (Edit: http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....12647#108195). It is surely a strong kriya with great results. I think because of its intense focus on the third chakra, it is not in the first kriya of Hari, to keep the focus on the crown. If you bring in navi into KYI, then half of your prana will move to the navi half of it to the crown, so you will have half the crown effect. We are speaking of short and midterm results. Over the longturn this half will be enough. Also Gurunath talks about a connection between navi kriya and the crown.
Thanks for your input, we are bordering a little bit regarding practice details, but are still on the safe side I think :)
Peace and love |
Edited by - Holy on Dec 17 2013 8:24:06 PM |
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Dec 19 2013 : 05:19:05 AM
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Hi Holy,
Yes I'm sure. In the phone call I made it clear that I had just received K1. He said you "could" use a mantra if you wanted to (your own or om). K2 and higher have a very specific mantra (and you already know what that is) - I know his from a very good source.
There is another thing that bothers me about Gurunath. He did not allow the teachers to give out Navi and one or two others. You pay the money for K1 but you still have to go to him to get the whole thing. It's all about sales and marketing. There is absolutely no reason the teachers can't teach this. Swamis Satyananda's 20 kriyas are far more complicated than anything Gurunath teaches and these are all taught in a book. If you practice them, they produce great results.
The purpose of Navi is to get the pranic engine running. Yes, it builds up prana in the lower abdomen and this is very important to get the kundalini awakened (unite prana and aprana). Also, doing this technique builds up the internal om sound and vibrations. My friend was doing Navi for 2 to 3 hours a day for a while (a long while) and the om sound got so loud that it kept him awake at night. When you get to this point you don't need to do Navi much (if any) anymore. This is when the pranayam takes off and you hear and feel the om vibration move up and down with the breath (according to my friend). I do not think there is a conflict. Part way through Navi I begin to feel a vibration (sometimes) in C6. If you do Navi in the beginning of the routine and then the crown work after, I do not think you are splitting up the prana but generating it and then moving it.
Regarding details, you should have seen my other post before I reread it and deleted it. We are well on the safe side.
By the way - I saw that tummo thing a while ago (maybe from you post which I'm sure I read a while ago). I thought it was a radical way to wake up kundalini - if you don't break your tail bone in the process. |
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Holy
796 Posts |
Posted - Dec 19 2013 : 8:04:03 PM
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Hi Bob,
ok thanks for the hint. Together with mantras KYI could become even more effcient than the orig kriya of Lahiri :P So far my rating for fastest results are (among the kriya variants)
1. Hans/Ashok/Lahiri
2. KYI
3. Gurunath
4. Yogeshwarananda
5. Yogananda
But that does not mean, that every kriya is equally full spectrum. KYI e.g. trades of lower chakra adressing with crown adressing. Hans and Gurunath do adress the crown either indirectly or only a little, but give intense adressing to the rest. Yogeshwarananda is very sooft, a totally different kriya alltogether, even though it is close to KYI's, the effect of KYI's is totally different. Yogananda's kriya was only to taste of kriya anyway, it had no real intensity resulting in frustrated practitioners. But he did another amazing work, without him not even AYP would be the way it is.
Manga said if you practice KYI1 for ~3 years, you can attend to KYI2. I thought, till then I'm already done, but lets see :P
Regarding Gurunath's kriya giving, he is a little traditional in this, you are right. His teachers also do have names, regarding the layer of their kundalini activity. He describes this in more details in his first book. So only those whose third layer has awakened permanently to a strong degree are giving yoni/jyoti mudra e.g., the others only teach the basic four techniques of om technique, kriya breath, maha mudra and paravastha. So those who do not come out of samadhi anymore give the Jyoti mudra and with this I think Gurunath wants to make clear, what kind of practice that is. Navi/nabho is his element, he also comes from the solar lineage and for sure navi has the strongest overall effects. 6 rounds 2x per day is already strong and what he recommends. The tummo report with the escalating effects were 12 rounds here :P That takes about ~10 minutes only and awakens the fire so crazily. 2 hours would be total desctruction here :P Even our samadhi boy cannot practice it too much without overloading as he once said and this boy could awaken the third layer of kundalini with one kriya breath and go directly into breathless samadhi at the crown blissing out the whole space, several rooms encompassing :)) This was 3-4 years ago. Last year he could make the whole room of people enter into savikalpa smadhi in the same way like Manga did, but not with the same intensity. But hey, that boy is practicing for 10 years now, Manga for 20, so it is pretty nice :P
As you say, navi kriya awakens the kundalini, all in all every single kriya practice awakens it. For those who need some more turbo, some more navi will do :D
There may be some christmas report these days, observations accumulated very much here. Also a special report is awaiting, some final inspiration for this year so to speak :)
Thaks Bob for the hints again :)
peace and hf
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andrew75
26 Posts |
Posted - Dec 20 2013 : 3:01:54 PM
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Hello Holy,
What exactly is the difference between Gurunath's Kriya and that of Hans? Are there differences only in the Kriya Pranayama, while the other techniques are the same?
Also, is it not true that Gurunath's Navi Kriya can also be learned from one of his Kriya Acharyas? |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2013 : 12:13:52 PM
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Hi RSS & Holy.
Planned breath retention:
The instruction I was given by Atmavidyananda was a brief pause after each exhalation and inhalation where an when you both know. I was also told to increase this gradually and reside within the silence there and observe the triple divine qualities in each center.
I have since learned the reality of these simple instructions, there is now no need to even consider the pauses the triple divine qualities take over and breath retains on its own for however long the samadi will be there then technique resumes.
Now for some interesting commentary:
While S.A. did the main teaching he also had a junior assistant who was always in full kechari and a state of waking bliss, light Samadhi. This Swami underplayed the triple divine qualities, which appears to be an ongoing theme of todays teachers, versus the earlier teachings of Hariharinanda himself where he emphasises them more.
His videos and Kriya book around 1982 especially point these out.
With both Swamis visualization is considered imagination and not to be done, they both stressed reality, to do the techniques and witness the reality. This I understood with incredible clarity and shocked amazement. For others the questions about well what about and how continued. The answers remained the same though.
Curious but each will gravitate to what they have an affinity for.
Mantra: When asked about Mantra S.A. emphaticaly stated no mantra is used, listen to divine sound of OM.
More on mantra: When you hear the divine sound place that in the center you are working on, there is the mantra.
Omnamobahagavatedavasu and second Kriya: Be careful what you read I have it on very good authority from Two independent sources, both Acharyas of Hariharananda that the techniques described in Ennio and Stevens books is incorrect.
Navi Kriya: Yes very good very powerful, for me after some time it was also no longer needed. At one time it was very needed, I suspect that after some loosening of the knot it just remains open.
Manipura is definatly connected to several higher centers. Manipura is the collision point between higher and lower thoughts.
Manipura can also be a distraction when it radiates strongly one should pull it up in the crown and purify this frictional centers essence.
On Gurunath: To me he has always seemed like a charismatic con artist, but thanks to Holy and his shared experiences whatever the truth of Gurunath may be is irrelevant. If someone gets value from money spent it is money well spent. Who may say what is expensive for another? The money a wealthier person lavishes on parties is a fortune to a less wealthy person but to the wealthy it might just be a way of showing appreciation to others in their circles.
KYI and lower centers not being addressed. They most certainy do address the lower centers but in a way that you might not be adjusted to yet, give it some time after the first year it will be more apparant, perhaps?
Maha mudra also awakens kundalini when done correctly with inner feeling this however is a difficult technique to fully grow into. It used to be the one I did to get through because I knew without it to expect neck and back pain from stuck prana / or static Prana known widely as kundalini.
Prior to kechari excrusiating headaches were a constant companion. Now never. But without Mahamudra back pains persisted even with Kechari.
Later Mahamudra has become a seductive enjoyment that is very pleasurable to perform and sets the stage for what comes next. Mahamudra is now practiced twice but this morning was so extended by pranic instruction and demand I will be upping the amount to 3 cycles from the current two.
Recently prana has given me a great teaching, In fact I believe this will prevent the overload symptoms of many, and Crown issues many have experienced and so many fear.
I will start a post on this soon. |
Edited by - Experientialknowing on Dec 23 2013 1:21:17 PM |
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RSS
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - Dec 23 2013 : 10:35:59 PM
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Hi EK,
Great post.
I'm thinking about driving down to Miami some time in February to meet with Swami Atmavidyananda.
I have to agree with you regarding the mantra. Now that I think about it, chanting one never really did much. But listening to that deep low frequency sound/vibration is a completely different story. I'll have to try and deepen the awareness and move it to the appropriate chakras.
Are you doing the KYI maha mudra or another one or did you modify theirs? Have you been doing bandhas in maha mudra? I have questions on this technique for Swami A. |
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Dec 24 2013 : 10:20:23 AM
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HI RSS
You will really enjoy being with S.A. The feeling in his presence is one of a person that is full of inner strength, likely had a very bad temper at one time but has since outgrown it. He is kind and gentle and sensitive these are the impressions when in his company. He is also extremely intelligent and quick witted with a good sense of humor and treats all people and all questions with respect do not be surprised if he knows what you are going to say before you say it. I found him to be a little difficult to understand at first until I adapted to his accent. His voice has a sing song quality to it when he speaks one word flows into the next.
Ask him to tell you the story of the animals in the Jungle with the whiskey drinking Lion and the coke snorting elephant.
S.A. is very exact in the way he teaches and his way of teaching the kriyas is of the highest technical quality, other Acharyas I have met are not as thorough nor exact.
I guess you can tell I really like S.A. honestly how could I not? he gave me the most important gift of my being alive in a body. In truth I have love for him as my older friend and teacher that taught me in this life.
I practice Mahamudra as I was taught by S.A. with one exception. I use a pillow to place under the top of the foot near the toes of the folded leg on this gives me the needed comfort and 1 inch or so to properly rest on the perineum when practicing with opposite leg folded. With opposite leg straight I do not need it but it is still more comfortable this way.
One day as the body continues to develop the pillow will not be needed. We all have a generally same human body Arms legs etc... but the geometry for each is not the same so by doing one discovers how to overcome limitations of biology. When I first learned Mahamudra the best I could do was sit flat on the ground. I really struggled with this for a long time.
Then as the triple divine qualities continued to grow in this practice I started having the strong desire in the body to do Mahamudra just Like Swami Atmavidyananda did which is different from the books you see on Kriya so I tried and the body just could not do it. Then after some time passed and the desire grew from absorption in the triple divine qualities I tried again, I failed, then more time passed and I tried again and sure enough tadaaaa fell on my ass and made my knee hurt!
Then one day it came to me to try again and all of a sudden I got it, I just got it and had the feel for it like the first time you solo on a bike. I felt like an excited kid again when the kundalini shot from Muladhara to crown I was amazed how natural and right this mudra felt.
I was amazed how clean and fresh the air in my lungs felt so I stopped the monkey minds happiness and dove deep into the triple divine qualities and silent mind practicing exactly the way I was shown it was only afterwards I noticed there was a pillow under the foot and it made all the difference.
Afterwards I could really feel the difference and the following Kriyas took on a new dimension. So much so that I could finally say yes this is what they meant it is all true.
To clarify what I mean by comfort, I do not feel discomfort or notice the top of the foot. Without the pillow / Zafu Cushion it can get my attention due to discomfort.
Maha mudra is only easy to do if you do it every day, I have also discovered that if you have been doing treadmill work or any exercise with the legs that it is best to do so after Kriya and not right before as it gets in the way of sitting, Mahamudra and the knee joints can ache afterwards. If I do cardio work after Kriya everything is fine.
As far as bandhas are concerned I have been aware of them occurring on their own but do not really do them on purpose, I identify with the triple divine qualities while practicing and the details take care of themselves. The Prana takes over I just become witness and follow what I was taught then Prana takes over and makes everything else happen and this is felt as satisfying a deep desire in the body to do something a certain way and there is great satisfaction when done but if not done it remains almost like an itch that is not yet and itch or a sneeze that is on its way to forcing expression. The pressure builds and the body follows the must do and the mind thinks after the fact what was I waiting for I should have done this sooner, gosh I already knew to do this.
When the prana guides the body follows. If I try to perform Mahamudra with out becoming internalized first it would be difficult, once internalized by the Kriyas that come before it the body is just more flexible and the inner commands the outer, were this not the case there would be no reason to do this Kriya without the inner it is just posture.
The beauty of this teaching of this lineage of Kriya is the simplicity, this is also what makes it difficult. The thing to understand (speaking in general now not specifically to anyone) is that there is something going on when practicing these Kriyas in the sequence they are given weather the person doing them can feel them or not at first.
quote:
Originally posted by RSS
Hi EK,
Great post.
I'm thinking about driving down to Miami some time in February to meet with Swami Atmavidyananda.
I have to agree with you regarding the mantra. Now that I think about it, chanting one never really did much. But listening to that deep low frequency sound/vibration is a completely different story. I'll have to try and deepen the awareness and move it to the appropriate chakras.
Are you doing the KYI maha mudra or another one or did you modify theirs? Have you been doing bandhas in maha mudra? I have questions on this technique for Swami A.
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andrew75
26 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2013 : 12:05:51 PM
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Hello Experientialknowing,
Reading your comments about KYI’s Mahamudra made me realize that I may be practicing it incorrectly, when it comes to folding the leg. Based on your post, it seems that the correct position of the folded leg may be like in these pictures, here, here and here. Can you please let me know whether this is indeed the case? Before reading your post, I was folding the leg like this. In the first case the pressure on the perineum is quite heavy, while in the second only light pressure is applied on the perineum.
I would also like to ask you another question regarding Hariharananda’s Mahamudra, but in order not to reveal online details that I’m not supposed to, I was wondering whether it would be ok if I sent you a PM.
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NoDogma
USA
123 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2013 : 12:14:09 PM
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Hi Holy,
Can you give me reference to Ashok you mentioned below ? Is he same as vedickriyayoga.com ?
thanks
Savyasachi
quote:
Originally posted by Holy
Hi Bob,
ok thanks for the hint. Together with mantras KYI could become even more effcient than the orig kriya of Lahiri :P So far my rating for fastest results are (among the kriya variants)
1. Hans/Ashok/Lahiri
2. KYI
3. Gurunath
4. Yogeshwarananda
5. Yogananda
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Experientialknowing
USA
263 Posts |
Posted - Dec 27 2013 : 6:47:17 PM
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Hi andrew the first 3 pics are close, the last is how a beginner does it.
These people are bending the ankle to sit on side of heel.
The way Iwas taught by 3 seperte Acharyas was to keep the back of the heel on the perenium the way they are doing it you have no control over pressure on perinium, not a good idea for men.
Of course the man in the picture likely built up to it over time.
Siddhasana is another ome thatakes time in the beginning a pillow can be used to bare the majority of the weight on the back of the butt ox.
quote:
Originally posted by andrew75
Hello Experientialknowing,
Reading your comments about KYI’s Mahamudra made me realize that I may be practicing it incorrectly, when it comes to folding the leg. Based on your post, it seems that the correct position of the folded leg may be like in these pictures, here, here and here. Can you please let me know whether this is indeed the case? Before reading your post, I was folding the leg like this. In the first case the pressure on the perineum is quite heavy, while in the second only light pressure is applied on the perineum.
I would also like to ask you another question regarding Hariharananda’s Mahamudra, but in order not to reveal online details that I’m not supposed to, I was wondering whether it would be ok if I sent you a PM.
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andrew75
26 Posts |
Posted - Dec 29 2013 : 12:20:09 PM
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| Thank you very much Experientialknowing. I'm glad to have this element of the technique corrected. |
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