AYP Public Forum
AYP Public Forum
AYP Home | Main Lessons | Tantra Lessons | AYP Plus | Retreats | AYP Books
Profile | Register | Active Topics | Members | Forum FAQ | Search
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 AYPsite.org Forum
 Other Systems and Alternate Approaches
 Death and Bardo
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  

kami

USA
920 Posts

Posted - Aug 09 2013 :  3:14:10 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Message
Recently, I came across some excerpts from the Tibetan book of Dying and the description of bardo. This touches me deeply, because death is often encountered in my field. Sharing a recent experience here, something I've not previously discussed with anyone.

Two months ago, a patient I had been treating for pulmonary hypertension for many years was admitted with sudden exacerbation. While I had known him for years, it was a difficult situation - he was noncompliant and obstinate, and would simply not take his medicines, follow-up for tests or appointments.. Yet, we had a cordial bond. When they called me to tell me he had been intubated, my heart sank - people with advanced pulmonary hypertension rarely get off the ventilator. Once his acute condition was treated, we prepared to begin the arduous process of getting him off the vent. Once off sedatives, he wanted the tube out immediately, not caring that he repeatedly failed the extubation test. He would not consider any other specialist's advice except mine - I implored with him to give us two more days. He gestured, "no, for you - one day." I felt defeated when I walked away from his room that evening. The next day, he failed the extubation test again, but wanted the tube out. I looked deeply in his eyes, asking him if he knew what that meant. He wrote on a piece of paper, "Yes, I know. I'll take my chances." His grown children were in the room, and everybody assented. Leaving the ICU team to do their thing, I left to go see other patients. Ten minutes later, they called me - he did not even last that long..

By the time I made it back to the unit, everybody was gone from his room, except the janitor preparing the body. As soon as I entered the room, I knew he was still there. I felt the discomfort within myself to see his now naked body being relieved of tubes and catheters. I held his lifeless hand, the one I had shaken so many times before. The transient nature of human life was starkly evident, with all of the stories around life and death - in life, he was Mr. So-and-so, but now in death, merely a body that people (including me) were somewhat fearful of. His room would be cleaned and sanitized once he was moved out, and somebody else would occupy the bed. The staff would get busy, and he would be quickly forgotten.. I sensed this presence in the room, wondering if the janitor felt it too.. Finally, I silently told him it was ok, that he could leave now. A few minutes later, I made my way back to the nurses station, sat down in silence for a while and then called his son - we shared stories about him and wept quietly together. In that release, the presence that had followed me into the noisy, busy unit was no longer sensed.. A few days later, when I was busy with something else, I suddenly knew with certainty that John had moved on.

Reading about bardo brought back this story.. Would love to hear about death and bardo from anyone that would care to share.

jonesboy

USA
594 Posts

Posted - Aug 09 2013 :  6:21:15 PM  Show Profile  Visit jonesboy's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
A very tough job you have kami.
Go to Top of Page

bewell

1275 Posts

Posted - Aug 09 2013 :  11:17:31 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Kami,

Thank you for your story of blending ethical professional conduct and subtle awareness. I am confident that the son of the deceased man was blessed to receive your empathic presence, sharing his tears.

Reflecting on that sense of suddenly knowing that someone has moved on...

In the Christian mystical tradition of contemplative prayer, one of the classics is Cloud of Unknowing. Almost in passing, that book speaks of a sense of helping the dead move to heaven through our prayer practice. After reading Cloud, I began to sometimes sense the presence of dead people during contemplative silence. The sense would come unbidden. I learned to release them in the silence as a blessing.

When each of my grandparents died, I sensed it. It drew me in. My experience in meditation is shaped by those formative spiritual experiences, and I am so very grateful.

When I read the Tibetan book of Dying in 07, it rang true: the idea the living can be present to the subtle dimensions of dying that come after bodily death. It is a gift to be present in that way, both for the living and for the dead.

Be



Go to Top of Page

maheswari

Lebanon
2516 Posts

Posted - Aug 10 2013 :  05:13:42 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
very touching
Go to Top of Page

kami

USA
920 Posts

Posted - Aug 10 2013 :  07:43:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you all.

Although there are many stories of death, my work is not all doom and gloom. The stories of restored health, recovery and healing far outweigh decay and death..

Bewell, thank you for sharing that. I had not heard about Cloud of Unknowing.. Love the sound and feel of it.. My maternal grandmother died when I was in med school. I cannot say that I was particularly close to her; she was not the typical warm and fuzzy kind of grandparent.. Austere, dignified and highly talented, she lived alone, spending her days in prayer and writing. She published several books of devotional poems in her last decade, along with some set to music and released as a record on her 70th birthday. She had been visiting us when I was back home for break. We were scheduled to travel back to her town together where I'd stay with her a day before going back to school. On the scheduled day, as we reached the bus station, she sat down on the curb not feeling well - my parents and I were alarmed; this coming from a stoic woman was strange, and we insisted that we go to a hospital. She asked me to go on, that she would be okay and would join me later in the day. Being supremely stubborn, she would not take no for an answer. The last I saw her was sitting on the curb in her spotless white sari, head covered as always, with her beautiful, chiseled face that did not show her age. Even with her growing discomfort, she remained dignified, not wanting to draw any attention to herself. Within an hour of the 3-hour journey, I knew she was gone. My heart hurt the whole time and grief consumed me. Instead of traveling with her and spending time with her, I was there (with the hundreds of people that came to pay their respects) to receive her body at her home when my parents brought her back (they had taken her to the hospital - she had a heart attack and died shortly thereafter with Shiva's name on her lips). Her sad demise from heart issues at 71 was one of my motivations to choose my field.. Now, 20+ years later, she appears in my dreams at least once a year, and I've felt her presence while meditating or when I sing one of her compositions..

What I was mainly trying to describe in the first story was the acute awareness of my own discomfort in the presence of death. It is one thing to imagine one's own (or a loved one's) death and think we will be totally unaffected as a result of our practices and openings. It is another to be in death's stark, cold presence.

Thank you again.
Go to Top of Page

Will Power

Spain
415 Posts

Posted - Aug 10 2013 :  12:15:53 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Kami,

I remember that when I heard that my uncle had died I felt sorrow, and went to my room and stared at a picture of him. After many minutes the inner strenght to practise "Phowa" came and I imagined Light Beings (Jesus) near him sending him light to his heart with one hand and to his forehead with the other hand, making him dissapear in Light.

After some time it is as if I my body also had more light and the sorrow went away, I totally accepted his departure and I had a feeling that he was finally gone.

Edited by - Will Power on Aug 10 2013 12:35:34 PM
Go to Top of Page

HathaTeacher

Sweden
382 Posts

Posted - Aug 10 2013 :  4:05:24 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for sharing, Kami!


I've the book. My mom was scared when she saw it, but I think it made death a much more apprehensible part of life for me. From "panic" to "normal fear and great curiosity intertwined" (after all, the only way to learn what's on the other side of the tunnel...) I remeber some ancient tantrist sects used to meditate on cremation grounds to cultivate detachment.

Maybe one should say "cyclic nature" rather than "transient nature"?

I also remember a book by Raymond Moody, but I don't have that one. The TBD seemed very sensitive to the dying one's need for guidance and compassion during the transition.


Edited by - HathaTeacher on Aug 10 2013 4:06:13 PM
Go to Top of Page

bewell

1275 Posts

Posted - Aug 10 2013 :  5:27:40 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
quote:
Originally posted by kami

What I was mainly trying to describe in the first story was the acute awareness of my own discomfort in the presence of death. It is one thing to imagine one's own (or a loved one's) death and think we will be totally unaffected as a result of our practices and openings. It is another to be in death's stark, cold presence.




Yes, I see the difference.

Go to Top of Page

Anima

484 Posts

Posted - Aug 10 2013 :  5:54:43 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
This story has brought tears to my eyes. I think John is okay, too. I will not judge the situation beyond that.
Go to Top of Page

Roberto

USA
33 Posts

Posted - Aug 10 2013 :  7:43:07 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Kami !! This Book was given to me by a Dear Friend here on AYP!

The title of the book is actually the Tibetan Book of Living and Dying


I would like to Thank You for your earlier sharing in the ER setting.

Namaste
Go to Top of Page

Govinda

USA
176 Posts

Posted - Aug 13 2013 :  10:58:22 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dearest Sister Kami,

Death is our inevitable destiny and part of our nature. Still, as compassionate humanoid entities, sympathetically sharing our experiences about death and dying can be both comforting and enlightening. I have found that there is no real death. It is simply a part of our sentient dreamscape, a passing phase of sorts... and and the departure of the Jivatman from the material shell, only.

I drowned in our swimming pool when I was 9 years old. I had dived into the water, through a styrofoam lifesaver. As children, my friend and I used to imagine that if we dove through these circular floatation devices, we would emerge into other realms, far away and distant parts of the galaxy. The lifesaver was a portal to these other realities. And while this was a game for imaginative little kids, it had a profound parallel and is one of the reasons I eventually embarked upon a lifetime of meditation practice.

Anyway, on this particular day, I underestimated the depth of the bottom of the pool and hit my head on the floor of the pool... Smack!!! My foot got caught in the nylon rope encircling the styrofoam lifesaver and in my semi-conscious struggles, I kicked wildly and then, inhaled water. As my foot became released from the rope, I sank to the floor of the pool and still vividly recall looking up at the sky through the water. Oddly, I wasn't afraid at all, I was curious!

The next thing I remember is being pulled out of the pool by my stepfather. I heard this loud "POP" sound and instantly, I was buoyantly floating approximately 12 to 15 feet above my prone material body. Now, I was still a child with no spiritual philosophies or concepts about astral travel (or even my immaterial auric body).

But I remember the exact thought process I had next. I recall feeling deep compassion for the little kid lying so frail and still, so seemingly lifeless on the wooden deck surrounding the swimming pool, while his dad desperately performed CPR on him. I thought to myself, "Poor little kid." Seconds later it occurred to me that if the boy beneath my hovering awareness was Jonny, just who was I? I still felt like myself. I was nearly ecstatic as I hovered above the tragic scenario beneath me. I felt so peaceful and it was so wonderful to float so weightlessly in between the worlds.

I directly KNEW that I was not the small body lying so helplessly and precariously close to death... I was an eternal, living soul. Yes, it all made sense to me then. I was an immortal "soul" who had left it's mortal form. I gradually understood that I must have died. I looked high up above me and could see the most intensely blinding light I had ever seen. The sun paled in comparison and this light seemed to be loving, intelligent and quite comforting.

This experience burned itself deeply into my being and compelled me to seek the light, my savior and the expression of my God's angelic warmth. I have encountered this same light many, many times since then and I am so deeply in love with the light, it is my soul's purpose for existing. It draw my attention into it's radiant fulcrum and dissolves my puny ego into it's immeasurable depths.

Now, as a small child, I really wanted to rise up into it's effulgence... despite not really knowing exactly what it was, rationally. But I thought about my family and my friends. I contemplated the sorrow they would feel, the fear and confusion they would experience without me in their lives. They needed me! I sensed that it was not yet my time to depart from the world I was learning to live and navigate within.

And as I came to this realization, I made a choice. Yes, I wpould continue to live upon the earthly plane. I would re-enter my shell and return to the dream of being a boy growing up in a world I didn't really understand very well, at all. But I had gained the understanding that a greater love awaited me, patiently poised for my soul's return into the splendor of this immeasurable love.

Seconds later I was experiencing the worst pain I've ever felt in this physical body, bar none! My lungs were agonizingly painful, burning and aching terribly. I was coughing up water in large mouthfuls. I was back in my mortal body and gasping for breath. The whole episode lasted about 2 or 3 minutes? But it instilled within me a deep faith and a direct knowledge that conscious-awareness exists with and without a material body to inhabit. I saw for myself that my being is not limited to the physical from or the thoughts that are generated with the brain functions.

I told no one about my experience, except my grandmother. She was a devout Christian and she told me that I had nearly crossed over to the Kingdom of God. That the Lord was the very light I had seen and that I would one day join this light for all of eternity. She then read from the Holy Bible and I sat there trying to fathom the words. But being but a child, I just wanted to get back to the joyous feeling of flying above the world I had known in my daily life as a growing boy.

Years later, I would experience astral projection and spirit flights through my mediation practices but the profound impact of nearly drowning, caused a permanent shift in my innate core. I instantly KNEW that my life was more than just coming and going... it was a seamless continuum and the indwelling soul is Divine in it's enigmatic nature. I am certain beyond the shadow of any doubt, that your friend and patient is now in a blissful, more expanded state of freedom.

Rather than feel intense sorrow or melancholy, perhaps it is wisest to rejoice at this soul's newly-found spiritual freedom? Physical incarnation is such a dichotomous compression for the Atamaic body, it is sheer bliss to be unraveled from it's compromising limitations.

But on a personal level, I can deeply sympathize and honestly empathize with your sadness and frustration. May you find peace in the understanding that this human soul you knew as a person, is now moving on to do other work and experience other levels of existential being. There are infinite realms to experience and it is truly a source of great rejoicing, that the Path leads us beyond the duality of the mundane, into the effulgence of the Divine... that big step on the road leading from the relative into the Absolute.

Om Shanti, Shanti, Shanti

Edited by - Govinda on Aug 13 2013 11:19:54 PM
Go to Top of Page

kami

USA
920 Posts

Posted - Aug 14 2013 :  10:36:33 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for sharing, everyone.

Govinda, thank you once again for a riveting explanation of a personal bardo experience. That is beautiful.

No, there is neither sadness nor frustration about this patient, or the many who have left their bodies in my presence. The stories of passing of many of them will remain etched in my memory, but this one was unique in that this is the first time I sensed him looking at his own body, much like you were looking at yours, Govinda. But I also sensed his own anguish and confusion about being there, out of his body. In addition to the sensing of this presence, confirming that there is no true death (the "cyclic nature" as Hatha Teacher wisely pointed out), there was a conditioned discomfort in my own gut to be able to sense all of this (an ability I didn't know I had).

Whether my patients get better or worse or pass on, I am nothing but a mere instrument through which they get what they need. Nothing more. And, in every encounter, they bring me exactly what I need. It is mutual, all of it perfect divine orchestration.

Not my will, but thy will my Lord.



PS: Hatha Teacher - funny you mention the ancient practice of "shava sadhana"; I have come across this in two recent books I read, one of which is about Aghoris that practice "left-hand" tantra, including living in cremation/burial grounds or cemetaries and practicing rigorous austerities with corpses.
Go to Top of Page

sunyata

USA
1511 Posts

Posted - Aug 15 2013 :  10:33:02 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Kami,

I've read the book. There are some YouTube videos on this. Brings the book alive.
Thank you for sharing the experience

Sunyata
Go to Top of Page

kami

USA
920 Posts

Posted - Aug 29 2013 :  9:24:12 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Another experience of death..

Was driving along this morning, chanting the Rudram, when a chipmunk darted onto the road - too late, despite slamming the brakes. Heard the soft thud even as a scream arose from my throat. And in the rearview mirror, I saw the little one lying still (couldn't stop bc of traffic).. Tears began to flow and a strange feeling arose in the heart - Amrita, except not limited to the head and neck. The minty coolness spread up and down, even as I felt the little one's pain in its last moment.. The Mahamrutyunjaya mantra, one that comes up for powerful healing, reverberated in my heart the rest of the morning, as the Amrita continued to course through my body and enveloped my head.. as if arising from an infinite source, soothing and comforting. Even as I begged for forgiveness, I knew it had already been granted..

My little friend remains in my samyama.. May he (or she) move on in peace.


Go to Top of Page

Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Aug 29 2013 :  9:27:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Go to Top of Page

Shanti

USA
4854 Posts

Posted - Aug 29 2013 :  9:28:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Shanti's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Funny wanted to post a but got selected instead.
Go to Top of Page

maheswari

Lebanon
2516 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2013 :  04:21:03 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Dear Kami
Reading yr post brought tears to my eyes
Thank u for sharing
Go to Top of Page

kami

USA
920 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2013 :  07:12:23 AM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Love you, my dearest sisters Shanti and Maha.
Go to Top of Page

CarsonZi

Canada
3189 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2013 :  1:32:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit CarsonZi's Homepage  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry to hear about the loss of your squirrel friend Kami. I'm sure he is at peace now.

My family and I came across a dying crow the other day. He was laying in the gutter, panting and squirming as we were walking to the mailbox. It was obvious that he was in pain and there were a plethora of other birds around, squawking and watching as he inched closer to the end of this physical incarnation. When I saw him I was instantly hit with his "nameless pain"... a quiet pain that came without any interpretation. As this pain wafted over me I found myself being drawn inwards, into a place of deep quiet. Then my eyes closed, my hands opened and my arms automatically lifted into what I would call "worship pose"... like this; http://jamescencebaugh.files.wordpr..._1060999.jpg . The crow then stopped panting, laid quiet and still (although not dead) and my arms came down. When I walked past the spot a few hours later he was nowhere to be found.

This experience was a gift for me. It gave me a solid taste of what it is like to feel pain without any interpretation. I hope that the next time I face death, that I can go into it with the grace and poise that this crow did. Thank you crow, and life, for such a blessed gift. And thank you Kami for your heart-filled sharings.

Go to Top of Page

whippoorwill

USA
450 Posts

Posted - Aug 30 2013 :  2:53:47 PM  Show Profile  Reply with Quote  Get a Link to this Reply
What incredible synchronicity!

A few days ago, I was working in my garden and came across a small bird that was dying in one of the little nooks. It was sitting very still, its breathing was labored and it was covered in flies. I watched it for a bit and wondered if I should kill it to stop its suffering. Then it came to me that the bird was not suffering; it's breathing was simply labored. The suffering was in me. It was my fear of pain and death, and it didn't feel right to kill the little bird because I was uncomfortable. So I left the bird alone, went inside and released the image of the bird and love into stillness. I did the dishes and mopped the floor and did other chores. When I went outside to check on the bird, it had disappeared.

Thank you little bird for teaching me that lesson. And thanks Carson and Kami!!

Edited by - whippoorwill on Aug 30 2013 3:59:24 PM
Go to Top of Page
  Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
 New Topic  Reply to Topic
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
AYP Public Forum © Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.09 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000