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vanuatu
USA
9 Posts |
 Posted - Jul 24 2013 : 10:32:35 AM
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Hello, I'm a new member but I have been reading AYP for the last year. I feel such gratitude and joy in the Yogani's teaching and in the comments of the members. Thank You
Practice for me has been life-long, interrupted yet spectacular. My methods were never refined by any standard I've read about. Amazingly for most of my life the guru within has simply revealed its nature.
Devotional practice seems contradictory, even though I have in the past been able to pray, it seems all wrong to devote my practice to what is essentially the Witness in my understanding. My children are the only real Devotion I know.
Now I'm very serious about daily practice and realize that most of what I've done in meditation has been purely for self satisfaction, no discipline, no Devotion.
It seems that Tantric way is closed for me as there is no interest therefore I have not put any effort into that method. Physically I'm pretty broke down but have been very successful with sitting practice. I can't believe how good I feel and am now doing Ashtanga and using Nauli, Uddiyana, Mulabandha, Sambhavi Mudra and working on Kechari.
But I get stuck in spinal breathing. Attention wants to stay in Anja. In order to stay blissful, I don't force it.
During spinal breathing, Attention is pulled into this much more generalized circle inside a circle. The inner circle is from Muladhara flowing beautifully up but won't stay local to spine. Instead, Attention moves by itself in an egg shape, then in an opposite motion a larger egg shaped orbit is flowing without effort.
I don't want to stop because its wonderful but it seems to be putting kybosh on my meditation, so I've started leaving meditation as a separate exercise altogether.
So, in self inquiry this idea of Devotion arises and arises but I don't know what to do with it. I can't get through the prayers I know from childhood. Mantras produce Amrit, and bliss but Attention ultimately breaks into its own pattern of "orbit."
I respectfully request the assistance of the Forum since I don't know what I should do ...if anything. |
Edited by - vanuatu on Jul 24 2013 10:36:00 AM |
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2013 : 11:39:53 AM
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Hi Vanuatu,
Welcome to the forums!
Sounds like you are very blessed and wonderful things are happening. What is your actual practice schedule?
Regarding devotion - there is much misconception about it, IMHO. Devotion is not equivalent to ardent worship, mantras, rituals, etc. Actually, none of them are indicative of bhakti at all. Your consistent call for sitting practices, to stay committed to the path is devotion of the highest kind. This is internal worship that surpasses anything you do outwardly. My advice is to not focus so much on it. Let it evolve the way it does, no need to force any of the practices, including devotion as you think it should look.
Regarding spinal breathing, it is okay to keep your attention on the ajna and simply move your awareness along the spine. The form in which that awareness happens is different for each of us - in your case, it is an egg. No worries; just keep your awareness moving along with the breath.
Hope this helps.
Love,
kami |
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vanuatu
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Jul 24 2013 : 1:09:34 PM
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Kami,
Thank you for welcoming me. 
Regarding practice schedule, I never miss 5am spinal breathing because I feel most peaceful and free to focus.
Lately the meditation doesn't follow as it did about a year ago. So sitting between 11am and noon using the subtle compassion or mantra if needed, and then "I AM" rocks me in most desirable way.
It will tilt my head for me, it will shift my back, no disturbance. Then I sit at 8 or 9pm for spinal breathing, then at midnight sitting for meditation. I'm not sleeping much & may wake up any time so then I use meditation usually 10-15 minutes & go back to sleep. Sometimes I meditate for two or three minutes numerous times a day when I have opportunity because Compassion creates "I AM" without effort.
You see bhakti is confusing for me. Where is there nothing to objectify in bhakti?
You have reassured me regarding spinal breathing, maybe this is impatience.
What a pleasure Kami, thanks & love back to you
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kami
USA
920 Posts |
Posted - Jul 25 2013 : 9:24:15 PM
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Hi Vanuatu,
Sorry for the delay.
What is the issue with meditation following spinal breathing? Your current practice schedule is not something we recommend in AYP. This system emphasizes integration of experiences and openings resulting from practices in daily life. Hence, the schedule is to practice twice daily and go on with normal life. This kind of approach results in the greatest comfort and consistent results, as you can glean from many practitioners here.
With regard to devotion, there is nothing the matter with objectifying it if that is the way one is being drawn. What can't be done well (and is unnecessary) is to force something to go against the grain. So if you are drawn to rituals and mantras and worship, go ahead. If not, no need to intellectualize about it. If and when those things are meant to be, they will manifest without a doubt.
Hope this helps.
Love. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2013 : 12:51:22 AM
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Welcome, Vanuatu!
In AYP spinal breathing is done separately from meditation, so you are already doing that.
It sounds like your concern about the spinal breathing is that it is taking a more open, wider form instead of being localized in the spine. Usually one begins the practice with visualizing a tiny thread or tube, and over time this expands and intensifies and can eventually involve the entire body. As long as it is working for you I don't think the form it takes is a problem. As far as keeping the attention at ajna, if you feel that you need more focus at muladhara when you reach that point in the process, then do mulabandha. This may also focus the spinal energy more.
With regard to bhakti, many of us (myself included) are inclined to passionate devotion to one's personal ishta or deity, and some traditions do emphasize this. "Bhakti" in AYP, however, is more general and simply refers to the desire or drive that motivates our practice. Clearly you do have this drive and motivation! As Kami said, the prayers, mantras, etc. are optional.
It actually sounds like you are doing fine, unless you have some other complaint or concern as far as what you are trying to achieve, which I am not understanding in your comments. If so, please let us know and everybody here will be happy to help!
Enjoy.  |
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vanuatu
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2013 : 3:20:09 PM
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Kami:What is the issue with meditation following spinal breathing? Your current practice schedule is not something we recommend in AYP. This system emphasizes integration of experiences and openings resulting from practices in daily life. Hence, the schedule is to practice twice daily and go on with normal life. This kind of approach results in the greatest comfort and consistent results, as you can glean from many practitioners here.
Hi Kami, no worries about getting back, we all have obligations. Thank you for trying to help me.
Kami, regarding schedule its crazy but others depend on me and I don't want to waste any more time. So I came up with most efficient and productive use of my time.
I get so amped up during spinal breathing that when I go to I AM after spinal breathing I'm having persistent intrusive and disturbing thoughts and images. Part of purification as I understand it, so I don't sit for very long with it. Becoming unhinged would be very inconvenient.
When I use I AM after only subtle compassion it is bright and beautiful. Thus my ad hoc approach. Intellectualizing is a detour but like Pandora's box the teachings of Buddha on emptiness won't leave me. The sense that any objectification of my practice is not going to help just won't leave me. Lots of work ahead but that is ok. I'm trying not to cling to progress or want for more progress as a mental discipline.
No doubt that prayer has helped me through numerous dark nights but somewhere over the last decade it started to feel like I could be reading the cereal box because the Source of comfort was the Awareness in prayer not the words anymore but I miss loving God lately. You helped me see this.
The disturbing thoughts are all about mutilated saints and the fear from childhood of God's wrath. Some people really overdue it with kids.
You are helping more than can be expressed here. |
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vanuatu
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Jul 26 2013 : 3:41:01 PM
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Radharani It sounds like your concern about the spinal breathing is that it is taking a more open, wider form instead of being localized in the spine. Usually one begins the practice with visualizing a tiny thread or tube, and over time this expands and intensifies and can eventually involve the entire body. As long as it is working for you I don't think the form it takes is a problem. As far as keeping the attention at ajna, if you feel that you need more focus at muladhara when you reach that point in the process, then do mulabandha. This may also focus the spinal energy more.
Hello Radharani, I did begin with thread to rope to entire channel, then I started having the disturbance I described to Kami. When I put space between the practices this expansion, or egg shape started after a short while.
So I'm ok in my egg
I have a certain lack in Muladhara because of surgeries, it seems a bit of a dud now, same thing with Swatistana ( sorry correct spelling eludes me). Of course the fire starts in Manipura.
This is confusing because it was not always like this. I did have moderate sensation in Muladhara now very little even though I'm using Mulabandha. Maybe technique
I am blessed, I should stop whining and carry on. Thank you |
Edited by - vanuatu on Jul 26 2013 4:27:59 PM |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Jul 31 2013 : 11:36:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by vanuatu
Radharani It sounds like your concern about the spinal breathing is that it is taking a more open, wider form instead of being localized in the spine. Usually one begins the practice with visualizing a tiny thread or tube, and over time this expands and intensifies and can eventually involve the entire body. As long as it is working for you I don't think the form it takes is a problem. As far as keeping the attention at ajna, if you feel that you need more focus at muladhara when you reach that point in the process, then do mulabandha. This may also focus the spinal energy more.
Hello Radharani, I did begin with thread to rope to entire channel, then I started having the disturbance I described to Kami. When I put space between the practices this expansion, or egg shape started after a short while.
So I'm ok in my egg
I have a certain lack in Muladhara because of surgeries, it seems a bit of a dud now, same thing with Swatistana ( sorry correct spelling eludes me). Of course the fire starts in Manipura.
This is confusing because it was not always like this. I did have moderate sensation in Muladhara now very little even though I'm using Mulabandha. Maybe technique
I am blessed, I should stop whining and carry on. Thank you
I wouldn't worry about the egg shape at this point. But if you are experiencing symptoms of overload (too much purification) then maybe back off on the spinal breathing a little bit for a while.
It is my understanding that doing techniques like mulabandha will be effective whether or not you have a lot of "sensation." In fact, we consider sensations to be "scenery" in AYP and just focus on doing the practice.
With regard to devotion, your heart will lead you if/when prayer becomes desirable. No need to force things.
Glad you are benefiting from AYP! |
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jonesboy
USA
594 Posts |
Posted - Aug 01 2013 : 12:33:37 AM
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I must ask if you dont mind. Do you really not have the time to sit twice daily for 30 minutes at a time or is it more of the experience that you dont like? The dark images you mentioned instead of the bliss you feel when you wait?
I have learned that we are given what we need not what we think we need. Maybe you need to learn from that which you would prefer not to face.
Forgive me if i am totally off base on this. |
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vanuatu
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2013 : 9:20:43 PM
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| Radharani, your comments are very thoughtful and helpful. I am encouraged, I thank you taking the time to respond. |
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vanuatu
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - Aug 02 2013 : 9:34:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jonesboy
I must ask if you dont mind. Do you really not have the time to sit twice daily for 30 minutes at a time or is it more of the experience that you dont like? The dark images you mentioned instead of the bliss you feel when you wait?
I have learned that we are given what we need not what we think we need. Maybe you need to learn from that which you would prefer not to face.
Forgive me if i am totally off base on this.
Hi Jonesboy, not off base at all. I don't have time to practice uninterrupted at the recommended times so I improvise.
The thoughts and images are purification, I'm sure you're correct. Either I can take them in small doses or when I'm safe on retreat. Since posting I've started working out a plan to go and do some work. |
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Radharani
USA
843 Posts |
Posted - Aug 13 2013 : 6:08:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by vanuatu
Radharani, your comments are very thoughtful and helpful. I am encouraged, I thank you taking the time to respond.
you are very welcome. |
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Question on Devotion
