|
|
|
Author |
Topic |
acestaesteuncont
Romania
1 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2006 : 02:45:33 AM
|
Hi all,
I am new to this site, meditation and to yoga in general. I read the first lessons and I started daily meditation, twice a day, for 20 minutes. This was 3 or 4 days ago. At first it seemed to be easy and enjoyable to empty my mind and I would feel something going on. However the last two sessions (especially the last one) were very disturbing - in the sense that I couldn't wait for the 20 minutes to be up. Today I only practiced for 10 minutes because I did not have the patience to finish the 20 minutes and it had become a nuisance to just wait for the time to pass.
I find it difficult to empty my mind without visualising something, I think this is the problem. So I tried to visualize the mantra, but then I realized I don't know what the mantra looks like.
What is a good idea to use as a visualization for a beginner? I do not want to stop practice because I had a glimpse of what is beyond, but I am just restless and there is no enjoying watching the clock and waiting for the time to be up.
Thanks in advance. |
|
Richard
United Kingdom
857 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2006 : 08:41:25 AM
|
HI there welcome to the forum and AYP.
You haven't got to struggle to empty your mind just think the mantra!
If you try to empty your mind your mind will rebel against it, read and re-read the lessons an important part of mantra meditation is to just let thoughts rise if they want to and even to have other thoughts at the same time as the mantra, just gently favour the mantra and all will be well. Yogani's inexpensive little book "Deep Meditation" Is excellent for beginners and for anyone come to that have a look on the main site and think about buying it.
You are right to cut back to 10 minutes if twenty seems a strain Keep it at that until it seems right and easy and then think about extending the time to twenty minutes.
Welcome again and all the best
RICHARD |
|
|
Jim and His Karma
2111 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2006 : 10:00:23 AM
|
The times when it's a nuisance to keep going and you must constantly restart the mantra are the times when the most good work is being done.
We don't meditate because it feels good (though it generally - if not always - feels good, and gets better in time). We do it because of how it adjusts us in the world later, after practice is done. Don't judge the worth of your practice by how your practice feels, judge it by how the world feels after practice.
But bear in mind that, even in your interaction with the world, a bad day or two or three is not a big deal. Examine your practice: are you overdoing or have you recently added on a new practice? If so, the bad days in the world are your evidence that adjustment is required. If not? Chalk it up to bad days.
But don't ever judge practices by how practices feel. It's a fundamental error. The practices do a lot more deeper good than just making you feel good. Sometimes, as they do their incredible work, negative emotions or anxieties are released. Kiss them goodbye as they exit! |
Edited by - Jim and His Karma on Jul 08 2006 10:01:33 AM |
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Jul 08 2006 : 5:01:22 PM
|
It's a form of boredom if you are watching the clock waiting for it to be over. That's an ego part of your mind that doesn't understand what you're doing. it has learned to always try to accomplish something. What I've found is intent helps with this. Tell yourself as you start the meditation that you have decided that meditation is the most important thing in your life, and the few minutes a day is very little to sacrifice, and you are going to put all your attention on this one thing. Then as you meditate, don't try to do anything at all except the mantra, as you have already set up the game with your intention. It helps me. Tell yourself there is no rush, this is the time you have set aside for this. |
|
|
Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2006 : 10:57:22 AM
|
Hi A, Welcome to the forum. I hear what you say.. this is exactly what my frustrations were when I started.. I'd close my eyes and then what.. am I supposed to see the mantra.. am I supposed to see something, a light or a star or something.. how can I just 'i am' without an object in my mind's eyes. It took some time, but I realized what everyone here and Yogani, in his lessons, were saying.. visions have to be treated like a thought or a sound, trying to see something in your mind's eyes is a distraction. So how do you get over this discomfort.. this is what helped me.. When you close your eyes, your physical eyes cannot see.. so your mind's eyes try to create an image in the darkness.. When you start to meditate.. and your minds eyes are trying to make an image in the front of your head.. move your awareness down to your heart.. and then start your mantra.. So when you close your eyes and your mind is wondering what to do.. use your mind to take your awareness away from your head.. you will soon realize, you can do your mantra without actually having to visualize something... once your awareness has moved away from your head the mind does not try to create an image anymore.. This comes with a little practice.
However it is very important that you don't spend the 20 min of meditation trying to do this. Do it only one time, just when you start.. then you stay with the mantra.. anything else is distraction.. keep it simple.. this is something that helped me.. but if it makes meditation more complicated for you.. just skip it..
Also, the restlessness during meditation could be just purification.. it will go away.. and as you meditate more and more you will realize that no 2 sessions will ever be the same. If the irritation is just too much and you just cannot go back to your mantra.. slowly come out of meditation, rest a bit, so you don't carry that restlessness with you into your day.. But if the feelings are not too strong try to stay with the mantra for as long as you are comfortable. So if 10 min was your limit.. that is fine, as long as you keep up your twice a day routine you cannot go wrong. Hopefully this phase will be gone soon.. it generally does. Wish you all the best in your chosen path. |
|
|
Manipura
USA
870 Posts |
Posted - Jul 10 2006 : 11:32:07 AM
|
Welcome, A! I know exactly how you feel: restlessness, boredom, clock-watching, impatience, i-must-be-doing-something-wrong. Don't feel like you're alone in this. Just stay with those feelings, because for you (and me, and others) they're part of the meditation process. They're not preventing you from meditating - they're an integral part of the meditation. I love what Ether has said on the subject:
That's an ego part of your mind that doesn't understand what you're doing. it has learned to always try to accomplish something. |
|
|
newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 02 2008 : 3:22:57 PM
|
Hi all,
"And God said, let there be light."
This verse gives us a clue.
When we think a mantra while also visualizing an internal organ bathed in light, then we should expect that the power of mantra and prana should become associated with or concentrated in that organ, with beneficial result.
Would anyone care to comment on this? What happens if you think your mantra when your heart is bathed in light? Has anyone had experience doing this?
But Christi, you have commented on danger of visualization in relation to chakras (like ajna or throat). I am assuming that this opinion does not necessarily address my question which addresses internal organs such as the heart.
Yogani and Christi, What do you have to say today on this subject of proper or beneficial use of visualization in yogic practice?
Would anyone else care to comment on this subject?
Thanks everyone!
newpov
|
Edited by - newpov on Nov 02 2008 3:53:02 PM |
|
|
Jo-self
USA
225 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2008 : 06:23:17 AM
|
.... When we think a mantra while also visualizing an internal organ bathed in light, then we should expect that the power of mantra and prana should become associated with or concentrated in that organ, with beneficial result. .... [/quote]
I think what others have said is correct. In short, you should follow the instructions of the path you are walking on. Any deviations and you may fall into pits, brambles, quicksand, and monsters. So, visualization is not part of AYP Deep Meditation. Of course, visualizations can and do occur, and in future some transformations of the visual apparatus may occur, but afaik, there are no instructions about it.
|
|
|
newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2008 : 09:31:21 AM
|
Hi all,quote: you may fall into pits, brambles, quicksand, and monsters.
I acknowledge this view, but spirituality may require courage to venture into the unknown. My curiosity remains.
Quakers, among others, value stillness and light, although they miss out on the power of mantra and pranayama in mobilizing pranic energy. I'm questioning an "either/or" approach.
So then, could mantra and light working together be beneficial for some in spiritual practice? [quote]God saw that light was good, and God divided light from darkness.
If we venture in light, then perhaps the verse is saying that we shall be protected from pits, quicksand, brambles and monsters in the dark. Again,
When we think our mantra while also visualizing an internal organ bathed in light, then we expect that the power of mantra and prana will be associated with or concentrated in that organ, with beneficial result. What do you say about this hypothesis?
May I hear from anyone offering experience about light in their meditative practice? Has it accelerated your progress?
Thanks again, everyone!
newpov
|
Edited by - newpov on Nov 03 2008 10:01:21 AM |
|
|
yogani
USA
5242 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2008 : 10:22:18 AM
|
Hi Newpov:
Localized sensations, light, and other symptoms in deep meditation are effect rather than cause, and the instruction is to easily favor the mantra, which is the underlying cause of symptoms of purification and opening, and of the rise of abiding inner silence.
This is not to say that energy centers, light, sound and other inner phenomena cannot be used as objects of meditation, but that is a departure from the method of AYP deep meditation, and will be the practitioner's experiment, or perhaps following the guidance of another teaching. It is best to continue with one approach, and not be jumping around too much.
Remember, if we are digging a well to find water, one deep well will usually be better than many shallow ones.
The guru is in you.
|
|
|
newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 03 2008 : 10:38:15 AM
|
Yogani,
Thank you for weighing in.
Here is a story:
There was a farmer who wanted water, so he dug a well fifty feet deep. He didn't find water, so he dug another fifty-foot well. Again, no water. Three more times he dug to a depth of fifty feet.
Exhausted, he went to a teacher and told his experience. The teacher said, "Why did you dig five wells? Why didn't you stick to one and go deeper than fifty feet? You would have found your water!"
Morale: striking a balance between teacher and intuition within is not so easy .... I guess we're each on our own.
Can anything but Grace save us?
newpov |
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 12:03:25 AM
|
quote: But Christi, you have commented on danger of visualization in relation to chakras (like ajna or throat). I am assuming that this opinion does not necessarily address my question which addresses internal organs such as the heart
.
Hi newpov,
One problem with visualization in terms of moving energy particularly to energy centers like chakras and the head for example, is the amplification of latent tendencies and the overall creation of imbalances.
Visualization can be like moving energy prematurely to a place in the nervous system that isn't ready yet, before the given location would be naturally ready to flow and receive said energy. Once the energy is in a particular area which isn't ready yet, there can be a lot of unpleasant symptoms. |
|
|
newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 07:40:47 AM
|
Hi all,
I thank Anthem for his contribution!
FIRST:
The distinction between organs and chakras may be important. Is one specific internal organ the same as, and/or associated with, only one specific chakra or energy turbine?
If you visualize light in any one internal organ (specifically, for example, the heart), does it follow that one identifiable combination or collection of chakras in the nervous system will therefore always be activated, without healthy automatic or autonomic rebalancing by the nervous system as a whole and so therefore with possible unfortunate consequences? How do you know?
SECOND:
Perhaps any answer for the heart organ differs from the answer applicable to all other organs.
Since the heart is centered between 3 chakras above and 3 chakras below, might visualization of light in the heart organ bring about a distribution of energy or a balanced activation of the surrounding 6 chakras? "As above, so below?"
THIRD:
Going much further, suppose visualization in the heart region properly includes or spans the physical heart on the left side, over to the spiritual heart (about which Robert Adams and Ramana Maharshi spoke) on the right side. An early reference in Ecclesiastes 10:2 -- quote: "The heart of the wise is at his right hand, and the heart of a fool at his left.
FOURTH:
Going even further, if spiritual sweep of included attention or activation is horizontal as well as vertical, could this be the ancient "Way of the Cross" as newly understood in yogic terms?
Vertical activation is evident as the "road" (read: spine or spinal nerve, etc.) in the verse that immediately follows [!!!!!] Ecclesiastes 10:2 -- quote: Even when the fool is walking on the road, he lacks sense...
The yogic cross is perhaps evident in Ecclesiastes 1, as two generations or again, in East/West, North/South terms: quote: "The sun rises, the sun sets, then to its place is speeds and there it rises. Southward goes the wind, then turns it to the north; it turns and turns again. Then back to its circling goes the wind [i.e., focus of attention and/or light visualization]? A generation goes, a generation comes; yet the earth stands firm for ever.
FIFTH:
My impression is that Christian mystics have had special veneration for "the sacred heart." Why do you suppose this has been the case? What do you believe has been behind this spiritual tradition?
newpov
|
Edited by - newpov on Nov 04 2008 09:22:28 AM |
|
|
newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 08:35:14 AM
|
Hi all,
Ramana Maharshi in my preceding post prompted this one. It seems that sages sometimes teach by voicing absurdities.
It remains for the astute student to see past the absurdities in order to pick out the kernel of a key teaching. The stupid, usually quite literal minded student will dismiss the teaching, not having the wit to spot deep irony, just for example; and so he will fail to see the nugget of spiritual merit that is buried and crafted within the absurdities.
Ecclesiastes, for example, writes: A fool walks down the road, he has no wit -- and everyone remarks, "How silly he is!"
Ok. Was Ramana Maharishi a fool?
To what end or purpose was Ramana Maharisha, an acknowledged genius and one of the greatest spiritual adepts of the past century, MANIFESTLY AND EMBARRASSINGLY stupid, absurd, illogical and/or foolish in the following exchange?quote: 8. What part of the body is the abode of the Self?
The heart on the right side of the chest is generally indicated. This is because we usually point to the right side of the chest when we refer to ourselves. Some say that the sahasrara (the thousand-petaled lotus) is the abode of the Self. But if that were true, the head should not fall forward when we go to sleep or faint.
Source: page 22 of The Spiritual Teaching of Ramana Maharshi, Shambala, Boston & London, 1988.
What do you make of this passage? What is he saying?
I don't know about you, but I see a "yogic cross" as I trace or follow a sequence of words in this passage:
1. "The heart": physical heart on the left side, or west 2. "...on the right side...": spiritual heart on the right side, or east 3. "...sahasrara....": crown, or north 4. "...head ... fall...": south
West/East, and North/South -- in connection with yogic labor or practice, these are the two generations of Ecclesiastes: quote: What profit can we show for all our [yogic] toil, toiling under the sun? A generation goes, a generation comes, yet the earth stands firm forever.
Ramana concludes his passage by writing, "...when we go to sleep or faint." So much absurdity is evident here in this passage, why not tag his absurdity with another? When we wake up, we see everything!
newpov
|
Edited by - newpov on Nov 04 2008 09:55:52 AM |
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 10:35:50 AM
|
Hi Brian,
quote: Originally posted by newpov
FIRST:
The distinction between organs and chakras may be important. Is one specific internal organ the same as, and/or associated with, only one specific chakra or energy turbine?
If you visualize light in any one internal organ (specifically, for example, the heart), does it follow that one identifiable combination or collection of chakras in the nervous system will therefore always be activated, without healthy automatic or autonomic rebalancing by the nervous system as a whole and so therefore with possible unfortunate consequences? How do you know?
The chakra's are energy "centres" but do not corrospond directly with one internal organ per chakra. If you visualize light in your heart you will be in danger of prematurely opening that chakra too early. If that chakra was meant to be open at this moment, then it would be opening at this moment. Patience my friend. All in due time with due dilligence. And we can know this will happen because it happens. Try it if you must and see for yourself, it's the only way you will believe what I am saying I assume.
quote: Originally posted by newpov
SECOND:
Perhaps any answer for the heart organ differs from the answer applicable to all other organs.
Since the heart is centered between 3 chakras above and 3 chakras below, might visualization of light in the heart organ bring about a distribution of energy or a balanced activation of the surrounding 6 chakras? "As above, so below?"
As above so below if the heart is above. But as you just mentioned, the heart is BELOW the top three chakra's so that logic doesn't work. I don't know for sure, but I assume that if you open the heart that it would automatically open the lower chakras if they weren't already, but this again will cause nothing but problems if you are opening your heart before opening the bottom three chakras.
quote: Originally posted by newpov
THIRD:
Going much further, suppose visualization in the heart region properly includes or spans the physical heart on the left side, over to the spiritual heart (about which Robert Adams and Ramana Maharshi spoke) on the right side. An early reference in Ecclesiastes 10:2 -- quote: "The heart of the wise is at his right hand, and the heart of a fool at his left.
As far as I understand it, the heart chakra is in the middle of the chest. Not on the right, not on the left, but in the middle. From what I understand, the physical heart is on the left, the spiritual heart is on the right, and the perfect balanced mix of the two is the centre of the heart chakra, in the centre of the chest.
quote: Originally posted by newpov
FOURTH:
Going even further, if spiritual sweep of included attention or activation is horizontal as well as vertical, could this be the ancient "Way of the Cross" as newly understood in yogic terms?
Vertical activation is evident as the "road" (read: spine or spinal nerve, etc.) in the verse that immediately follows [!!!!!] Ecclesiastes 10:2 -- quote: Even when the fool is walking on the road, he lacks sense...
The yogic cross is perhaps evident in Ecclesiastes 1, as two generations or again, in East/West, North/South terms: quote: "The sun rises, the sun sets, then to its place is speeds and there it rises. Southward goes the wind, then turns it to the north; it turns and turns again. Then back to its circling goes the wind [i.e., focus of attention and/or light visualization]? A generation goes, a generation comes; yet the earth stands firm for ever.
Yes perhaps, but these days I am finding that ANYTHING you want to say can be referenced with a Bible verse, as the generic and metaphoric speech patterns serve a thousand purposes for a thousand people, so I am finding little value in any one person's interpretation of the "Holy Book".
quote: Originally posted by newpov
FIFTH:
My impression is that Christian mystics have had special veneration for "the sacred heart." Why do you suppose this has been the case? What do you believe has been behind this spiritual tradition?
I think the reason for this is because Christianity takes the Bhakti yoga direction. In Christianity, the followers try to experience God through devotion and that is their main practice set. I think that is why there is so much emphasis on the heart. That and it is important to learn to live by seeing from the heart and not from the eyes. That is the key I think to learning to see everyone as yourself or as God. See everyone/thing through the eyes of the heart.
Love, Carson
|
Edited by - CarsonZi on Nov 04 2008 10:39:34 AM |
|
|
newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 11:30:15 AM
|
Hey Carson,
Good post. Thanks!
I'm thinking that the heart may serve as a spiritual transformer or balancer between the totality of activity in the top 3 chakras and the totality of activity in the bottom 3 chakras.
I hope I'm not imposing my will on interpretation of scriptural imagery, but rather making inferences based upon and drawn from an open mind. Of course, even an open mind can be mistaken!
Willingness to experiment hermeneutically seems personally necessary when others are not present with me to guide my spiritual interpretations and inferences.
The heart with its arterial and venous flows may be referenced in the prologue of Ecclesiastes: quote: Then back to its circling goes the wind. Into the sea [heart chamber?] go all the rivers, and yet the sea is never filled [because of outgoing arterial flow?], and still to their goal the rivers go.
Many construe the heart only as a metaphor for consciousness or bliss, etc., or as a metaphor for love or devotion.
But where spiritual practice is concerned, could we be overlooking or even dismissing something vitally important?
First words and concluding words in a spiritual work can be pregnant with significance.
Consider the import of the opening words and the concluding words that the English Christian mystic Richard Rolle (died 1349) chooses, I believe with care and spiritual craft, for the Prologue of his Fire of Love: quote: I was more astonished than I can put into words when, for the first time, I felt my heart glow hot and burn. I experienced the burning not in my imagination but in reality, as if it were being done by a physical fire...
...because I will try to show the superheated and supernatural feeling of love to everyone, the title The Fire of Love is selected for this book.
Note that Rolle above includes explicit reference to "imagination". Bear in mind, what I could is a translation from the Latin by M.L. del Mastro, available used on Amazon.com.
Despite what seems to be an explicit disavowal, Could Rolle be alluding to deliberate light/fire imaging or active visualization of some sort in his spiritual practice?
Would a student who is watchful for irony in spiritual writing, and therefore "contrarian" to prevailing opinion, be enticed and therefore be inclined to follow up on this lead for the few?
newpov |
Edited by - newpov on Nov 04 2008 12:10:30 PM |
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 12:07:21 PM
|
Hi Brian,
quote: Originally posted by newpov
But where spiritual practice is concerned, could we be overlooking or even dismissing something vitally important?
It's always a possibility, but I can't say for sure because I haven't gotten far enough along to really definitively say. But I have faith that Yogani knows what he is talking about, he has experimented enough and knows enough about the entire process that if it was necessary to focus on the heart in order to achieve transformation then he would have included a practice within the AYP framework. I'm sure he didn't include such a practice because he either knew it wasn't necessary, or knew that it would only lead to excessive kundalini symptoms or something. It's always your perogative to practice how you see fit, and noone is going to force you to stick to one program, but in my opinion it is better to stick with something tried and tested then to completely cut one's own path out of the jungle forest using whatever tools you happen to come across. With AYP Yogani has given us a integration of yoga practices that seem to cover all the bases yet seems relatively safe. Adding stuff onto the system is always possible, but it isn't always necessary in my opinion. You may feel that you need to open your heart chakra because that will help facilitate a complete chakra opening, but what happens when you succeed and put yourself in the hospital with symptoms that the doctors can't figure out because your nervous system wasn't purified enough? AYP's system includes methods for opening the chakra's but it does so in a way that is safe. To start targetting your heart area before that chakra is open I think would be an unwise idea. Too me it seems as if you feel unsatisfied with the progress you are making with AYP alone, and you are looking around for other ways to speed up the process. This isn't necessary from my experience. The most intense openings I have had yet have happened on days when I have not had the time to do my full set of practices and have sat for only a 20 minute just meditation session. Sometimes less really is more.
Love, Carson |
|
|
newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 12:19:59 PM
|
Hi all,
Carson just posted at the same time I was adding the following to my post:
quote: Note that Rolle above includes explicit reference to "imagination". Bear in mind, what I could is a translation from the Latin by M.L. del Mastro, available used on Amazon.com.
Despite what seems to be an explicit disavowal, Could Rolle be alluding to deliberate light/fire imaging or active visualization of some sort in his spiritual practice?
Would a student who is watchful for irony in spiritual writing, and therefore "contrarian" to prevailing opinion, be enticed and therefore be inclined to follow up on this lead for the few?
newpov |
|
|
Shanti
USA
4854 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 12:22:34 PM
|
quote: Originally posted by CarsonZi
But I have faith that Yogani knows what he is talking about, he has experimented enough and knows enough about the entire process that if it was necessary to focus on the heart in order to achieve transformation then he would have included a practice within the AYP framework. I'm sure he didn't include such a practice because he either knew it wasn't necessary, or knew that it would only lead to excessive kundalini symptoms or something.
There is a lesson on heart opening. The last paragraph (that I have quoted below) includes the heart breathing technique. It is very powerful.. so be careful with it.. but it really works!!! quote: Lesson 220 - Q&A – Opening the heart chakra The practices in the lessons are geared toward overall spiritual awakening, and not so much on individual chakras - except the ajna to root connection, which is especially important for enlightenment. Of course, the heart is opened also by this overall purification in the spiritual anatomy. While meditation and spinal breathing are global and open the heart "by proxy," other techniques like uddiyana/nauli, chin pump and targeted bastrika can work more directly in the heart area as part of the overall process of purification and opening.
In general, I am not for focusing on individual chakra openings, because how can we know what is the right order? Unfathomable karma sets each of us on a somewhat different path, and that is why the broad approach in the lessons is offered, rather than a specific chakra by chakra approach. In this way we allow pure bliss consciousness to cultivate natural opening of the nervous system from within, relying on intellectual decisions very little. Through the practices in the lessons, we are systematically surrendering to the process of spiritual transformation that is inherent within us. Of course, pure bhakti is the greatest of all practices, and you know that already. If human desire is raised to the level of bhakti (intense desire for God/Truth), then all the methods of yoga are stimulated automatically. We only need hear of them once (if at all), and we are off into practice!
Having said all that, here are a couple of additional suggestions on opening the heart chakra that are holistic in their effects:
There is a pranayama technique that works directly in the heart that has not been mentioned in the lessons so far. It is like spinal breathing, but in reverse direction. We can call it "heart breathing." It provides the opportunity to bring our ishta (chosen ideal) directly into our heart using the breath with profound effect. What we do is inhale from the third eye (point between the eyebrows) back to the center of the head and down the spinal nerve into the heart, and then exhale back out the same route through the third eye. On the inhalation we bring our ishta in, and on the exhalation we send out impurities. If we slow down the breathing (comfortably), the effects will be enhanced. Breathing through the nose is preferable, but not mandatory. This method has great benefit for the heart, purifying and opening it. During this practice, our heart is filled with our Beloved and impurities are expelled. It can be done for 5-10 minutes before or after sitting practices, or anytime. Be careful not to overdo it in the beginning, as it can bring excessive karmic releases in the heart if overdone. It is suggested you start off slow and work up gradually according to comfort and effect. This practice has not been offered in the lessons so far because of the reverse direction aspect and possible confusion to beginners in the traditional spinal breathing that is given beginning in lesson #41, which purifies the heart in a more general way. Also, many people do not have a clear ishta to use, which can be confusing to those coming to yoga with a non-worship orientation. This is clearly not the case with you, so perhaps you can use this practice with good effect. It may even combine nicely with your other practices. It is in your hands.
For those who wish to try this practice without a specific ishta (diety, avatar or guru), the purifying and healing power of universal Truth can be brought in through the third eye and down into the heart during inhalation, and impurities sent out on exhalation.
|
Edited by - Shanti on Nov 04 2008 12:25:18 PM |
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 12:35:30 PM
|
Hi Shanti,
Thanks for the correction, I forgot about that lesson....Had briefly read it in passing due to a link in another post, but obviously didn't register it deep enough within my brain...haha. I have tried it a few times and found it to be as you said....powerful. Hence why I ended up leaving it alone and forgetting about it. Silly me.
Brian,
Are you currently practicing the Dynamic chin pump? That also helps to open the heart and upper chakra areas...I added it to my practices a couple of weeks ago and have found my love and devotion steadily increasing day by day.
Love, Carson |
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 1:39:06 PM
|
Brian,
Have you tried AYP's Self Inquiry methods yet? The more I read your posts the more I think you give too much credence to other people's ideas. You seem to quote someone in every posting whether it is the Bible or Vedic scriptures, and I think you should potentially look into leaving the spiritual books alone for a while and try using Self Inquiry as your source of divine inspiration. All the answers you seek are waiting within to be acknowledged. The inner guru seems to be trying to get out, but you seem to be pushing him back in by reading and absorbing so much scripture. I may be WAY off base here, and feel free to tell me so if that is what you think, but after reading and rereading your posts today, this is my inclination or suggestion. Yogani's Self inquiry book is amazing, and I would suggest starting there. There are other versions of Self Inquiry such as Adyashanti's version, but I don't think that his is a very good stand alone practice, and I think AYP's is much more well rounded especially if you are already doing DM and SBP. Hope this helps even a little.
Love, Carson |
|
|
newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 6:55:11 PM
|
Hi all,
I don't know anything about chin pump or self-inquiry, Carson.
Pranayama, the heart organ, and ishta as "loving ones enemies" is taken up in my new thread concerning AYP Lesson #220, http://www.aypsite.org/forum/topic....OPIC_ID=4658
I hope all of you join me over there, and offer your own practices concerning your own choice of ishta.
newpov |
|
|
Etherfish
USA
3615 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 7:45:30 PM
|
I agree with Carsonzi about the bible taking the bhakti approach and there are many interpretations of it. Trying to use it for instructions can be confusing because much of it has been encrypted, and by different people.
I think it is asking for trouble to try and follow yoga practices from the bible. The bible has been edited and parts eliminated by people who didn't have a complete understanding of yoga. Concentrating on any one chakra or organ is what Yogani warns about, as "under the hood" tinkering instead of just staying in the driver's seat with AYP practices, which automatically take care of the chakras when the time is right.
I've found it is more productive to follow AYP practices, and use the bible for Bhakti. How this is done, is pick one passage from the bible, and contemplate on it every day for a couple weeks. (Outside of meditation time of course). You will begin to understand it in a different way than when you just read it. It will increase your bhakti, and thereby make your AYP practices more effective. You will understand it on a different level than before. I cannot explain why this is so, but it makes the bible more valuable than if you try to use it as an instruction manual. Sri Yukteswar suggested this, Yogananda's guru, and I have found it to be true also. |
|
|
CarsonZi
Canada
3189 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 8:52:45 PM
|
Thanks for the suggestion Etherfish.....Lately I've had a bit of a "need" to read the Bible, a I've been debating with my family over the compatability of Christianity and Yoga, and this seems like the perfect way for me to read it. I have read the whole thing cover to cover twice before, but I think if I do it the way you are suggesting I will get much more out of it this time around. Thanks for the suggestion.
Love, Carson |
|
|
Anthem
1608 Posts |
Posted - Nov 04 2008 : 11:19:43 PM
|
quote: Originally posted by newpov
SECOND:
Perhaps any answer for the heart organ differs from the answer applicable to all other organs.
Since the heart is centered between 3 chakras above and 3 chakras below, might visualization of light in the heart organ bring about a distribution of energy or a balanced activation of the surrounding 6 chakras? "As above, so below?"
Well I can speak to this from personal experience, if the heart is worked on too often or the openings of the heart exceed those of other areas in the body there can be imbalance in the system as a whole. As Yogani makes clear so often throughout the AYP lessons, spiritual opening has to occur in a gradual balanced way or the results are simply unpleasant.
Hence things are left "under the hood" to avoid our mind's natural tinkering ways. We can not possibly know mentally with great accuracy where our imbalances are and how they can be remedied. Better to treat the system as a whole and this is what AYP practices do.
There is no denying the role of the heart in spiritual opening, but one has to be ready for all that entails and the best way is by twice daily practice as detailed in the main lessons tab above with plenty of self-pacing when necessary.
If there is still plenty of energy to get things going, a great way to use it is in service to others (without motive) and self-inquiry can go a long way too.
Best of luck!
ps- I just read through the rest of the thread noting Carson covered pretty much everything here already.
|
Edited by - Anthem on Nov 04 2008 11:24:08 PM |
|
|
newpov
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - Nov 05 2008 : 07:40:13 AM
|
quote: I think it is asking for trouble to try and follow yoga practices from the bible. The bible has been edited and parts eliminated by people who didn't have a complete understanding of yoga.
Hi all,
Unenlightened or less spiritually aware or awakened editors and translators could be doing the bidding of spiritual authors, carrying the message to the discerning student, without their even knowing or realizing or appreciating what they do. This is because spiritual teaching including yogic instruction may be carried in imagery and sequences of images. Poetry and allusion and irony, and presumably even the faithfully translated and edited parables of Jesus in the New Testament, are appreciated by the relatively few.
Thanks, everyone, for having contributed to this thread!
newpov |
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
AYP Public Forum |
© Contributing Authors (opinions and advice belong to the respective authors) |
|
|
|
|